Rosoboy19
Member
A capable AVR will often have all the amp channels you need built-in. But you are correct about the extra work of wiring and drilling. For me personally the better sound and features are worth a bit of extra work. To each their own.
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Soundbar vs home cinema sets, now for the definite answer
- Thread starter Stafford
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Rosoboy19
Member
Audio lag/sync is one of the key issues that drives me toward a dedicated AVR with hdmi pass through
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
No it won't.
You can get some that are more capable than others but they cost much more.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Instead of eARC I wish TVs would add a 5th dedicated HDMI that serves as audio only. Allow eARC to still work if the user so chooses, but that seems like such an obvious no brainer solution that it's frustrating that no one has considered it. That 5th port would go straight to a receiver similar to audio extractor and would eliminate all eARC issues, wouldn't rely on the TV to support Atmos/DTS:X, yes it would add cost to the TV, but it would be a much better solution and would allow receivers/soundbars to stay relevant for much much longer. It wouldn't need to be a full bandwidth HDMI port either. My receiver is only as good as long as HDMI 2.1 stays relevant.
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It's really no different with an AVR over a soundbar in that aspect. You need the device to support what HDMI spec your TV does.
With the audio extractor only the audio side of things is sent to the sound system. In my setup I have an HDMI 2.1 4K 120hz VRR TV, but a soundbar that only supports HDMI 2.0. It seems some devices do better with HDMI-in rather than using ARC/eARC.
Yes, exactly. That's what the audio extractor is doing. If even handles having HDMI-cec related to audio get directed to the audio only port, so your TV won't mess with what capabilites your set up has. I also wish TVs would work this way, especially since the extractors lagged 6-12 months from with HDMI 2.1 TVs and the game consoles came out.
Rosoboy19
Member
Yes it will. A Denon S750H can do 5.2.2 with the built-in speaker terminals. A Sony STRDH790 is significantly cheaper and will do 5.1.2
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Neither have close to enough power to power those speakers.
CobraAB
Member
At the price, I hope so.
Schmendrick
Member
Uh no?
HDMI to VRR capable TV, enable passthrough, then use eArc to directly funnel the sound signal to the AVR/Soundbar. That way you get VRR no matter if the AVR/Soundbar supports it and there is no sound lag with passthrough either.
Or am I missing context here (didn`t read the whole thread)?
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squeakywheel
Member
Since I usually game alone and loathe bothering my wife (or neighbors) I went with a Sony wireless SRS-NS7. Sounds great and latency is very minimal off optical. Anyone else bought one? Way better than headphones in terms of comfort.
Rosoboy19
Member
They work fine as long as you use your crossovers with a sub and aren’t trying to pump reference levels of audio. 85db reference average is too high for many people in their living room, 75db is probably a more realistic expectation. If you want reference, then yes you’d probably need higher wattage on the amps (as well as much more expensive speakers).
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Why I said a AMP to give them all the juice they need.
I wouldn't recommend less than the $1000 Outlaw 7000X
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
But the Sony doesn’t support HDMI 2.1
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
The receiver has to be 100% HDMI 2.1 compliant if you want to pass through it. You can get get VRR/ALLM/4K120 if you run to the TV and use eARC back to receiver, but as myself and others have stated you may get sync issues especially when it comes to Dolby Atmos on Xbox Series X and PC. I never noticed lag when using Atmos on PS5 even with eARC.
Ultra Donny
Member
Atmos is the audio equivalent to 3D glasses.
cinnamonandgravy
Member
ha, nope.
sound quality > channels.
soundbars have inherent flaws that a discrete system does not. visit a hifi forum for more info.
and better than any 2.1 setup?
very high-end 2.1 setups cost 10s of thousands of dollars or more, and can be massive.
your rinky dink soundbar with wireless dingleberries just isnt going to win.
soundbars are a cheap and convenient alternative to the traditional product.
as with most things in life, "cheap and convenient" should clue you in as to what you're getting.
Schmendrick
Member
I can't confirm these sync issues for PS5 and PC which I've had set up like that for years now with an Atmos system. Sometimes when the data stream starts there is a split second scrambling sound until the AVR gets the format right but that's it.
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FrankWza
Gold Member
I say you spend money on your speakers and the best subwoofer you can afford and the biggest center channel you can find and you can have them for decades. Then all you need to do is replace your receiver every few years. The only issue is matching your speakers if they are discontinued if you want to expand your setup into Atmos with upfiring and downfiring etc.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Not for Atmos
Except this thread is talking about gaming and movies. No matter how accurately your speakers can recreate the original audio, you are still limited to sound coming from two directions and with proper placement and panning you can cover the area between the speakers as well.
But not having rear speakers means you are missing out on a lot, and by adding in height speakers with Atmos, you can create a dome of audio where sound doesn't just come in from 360 degrees around you, but over your head and appearing from the floor. You can get a similar experience for a single person with headphones and binaural playback. but the effect doesn't work the same with regular speakers.
Demigod Mac
Member
Denon X3800H AVR fully decked out with a full speaker 7.4.4 setup. Love this thing, zero regrets.
It does take time to set up an AVR and calibrate, but once you get it tuned the way you like it, pure audio bliss and easy to toggle on anytime.
Also, soundbars ain't automatically the go-to answer for small rooms. Integrating an AVR into a room and minimizing the visibility of speakers/wire is an art as well a science.
It does take time to set up an AVR and calibrate, but once you get it tuned the way you like it, pure audio bliss and easy to toggle on anytime.
Also, soundbars ain't automatically the go-to answer for small rooms. Integrating an AVR into a room and minimizing the visibility of speakers/wire is an art as well a science.
Demigod Mac
Member
Same - my AVR that has a feature called LFC (Low Frequency Containment). Attenuates bass frequencies that travel through walls which is perfect for late night viewing.
(have not received a single noise complaint). Not all AVRs have the feature however, so check the specs before buying.
ShakenG
Member
I was going to say the exact same thing..
I go Console - Tv (HDMI Passthrough) - Sounbar via eARC. I have zero sound delay and audio gets passed through untouched..
I was surprised by how well it works.
Codeblew
Member
I used to read a lot of recommendations like ~8 years ago to route the console into the soundbar first and then into the TV via eArc. That is my current setup but I doubt it matters much with current tech.
TheHighFlyingBirds
Member
Nice. Take it you have external amplification as that denon only has 9 discrete amps. You got a dirac licence for it? Im just running audyssey on mine.
Just trying to work out best option for adding 2 heights. Moving my dali fazon sats from surround to mid heights, but trying to decide what surrounds to add and where to put them; choices are dali oberon on wall, MK M50 or some cornered audio c4's. There will be comprises with each option I think as locations are not ideal.
Pedro Motta
Member
This is ridiculous, there is something called sound saturation from the drivers, with only 2 drivers theres is a physical limit to instrument separation and quality you can achieve, no matter how good or expensive your setup is.
I would dare say Atmos mixes for music really elevate the experience and quality because the instruments are being spread over 16 or more drivers at once, hence no driver gets saturated. You should experience it instead of assuming decades old setups are better.
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Demigod Mac
Member
Using an AIYIMA A07 TPA3255 amp to power the +2 channels, works pretty well for what it is. (small apartment and trying to keep things in the ~70 dB range to avoid hearing damage)
Haven't purchased Dirac yet - BUT - that may change as they just recently added the bass management feature (finally!)
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Actually very close to what I just started looking for to help out my nephew setting up his apt at College for his bedroom but needing to also power a sub
Looking at AIYIMA now since hearing its working well for you
FateTrap
Member
Sony STR-DB790 and Infinity Alpha 5 provides good sound over the analog connection to my PC running Calculate Linux.
This is a recording of what the sound is like:
From a technical point of view, a PC is very suitable for achieving high audio quality.
This is a recording of what the sound is like:
From a technical point of view, a PC is very suitable for achieving high audio quality.
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DirtyBast8rd
Member
Got a Ultimea Poseidon D60 soundbar with sub and rear surround speakers for 200 eu for when I want game to behind the desk on pc without headphones. Pleasantly surprised with the sound and it was just perfectly suited for the space I wanted to put it, with just 40cm wide. Just be carefull where you place the sub. Behind me like shown when using the surrounds it was a mess, moved it to the front and got 10 meter subwoofer rca cables for the surrounds as the 6 meter wasn't long enough and it sounds really good. It's an Atmos Soundbar with Earc. I don't believe in proper Atmos with Soundbars, still don't, but really pleased with it for the money.
FateTrap
Member
I've listened to very expensive systems and they sounded more distorted than my Infinity speakers.
OpenBSD + music player daemon + OSS
OpenBSD sound demo with Infinity Alpha 5 + Sony STR-DB790.wav
drive.google.com
ONE MILLION DOLLAR system from Aries Cerat
If this Aries Cerat recording is somewhat accurate, I can say that the guitar and trumpet definitely have less distortion (like instruments really sound) on my Infinity speakers than on the expensive AC speakers.
Akuji
Member
the super expensive stuff is expensive to be expensive. Its not about sound quality. You get better quality way cheaper.
In DIY its actually pretty hard to build something that doesnt slap the Aries Cerat systems.
Shows are always difficult but i listened to Aries Cerat at Highend earlier this year, lol. Wouldnt even turn the system on to listen music to if i had it at home.
Wasnt a very enjoyable performance, what i always wunder is how they use horn systems and have so little dynamic. its magic, just the wrong kind of magic.
In DIY its actually pretty hard to build something that doesnt slap the Aries Cerat systems.
Shows are always difficult but i listened to Aries Cerat at Highend earlier this year, lol. Wouldnt even turn the system on to listen music to if i had it at home.
Wasnt a very enjoyable performance, what i always wunder is how they use horn systems and have so little dynamic. its magic, just the wrong kind of magic.
Stafford
Member
My Harman Kardon Citation Multibeam 1100 setup is complete. I’ve added the “small” subwoofer and oh my, the difference is lovely. Watched some scenes of The Equaliser 3 and those gunshots are full of power now. The intro to Blade Runner 2049 is just....."chef's kiss".
I mean without a sub it’s still an amazing soundbar and it will always surprise me how strong it’s bass deliverance is but the sub really enhances the overall experience.
Managed to get it during a crazy sale, so crazy I couldn’t ignore it.
I mean without a sub it’s still an amazing soundbar and it will always surprise me how strong it’s bass deliverance is but the sub really enhances the overall experience.
Managed to get it during a crazy sale, so crazy I couldn’t ignore it.
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FoxMcChief
Gold Member
I prefer a higher end sound bar with a subwoofer than having true surround sound with multiple speakers across the room. I’ve experienced both, and would just prefer the easier to handle (kids and pets in the house) sound bar under my tv.
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Akuji
Member
U tried the bladerunner scene where he flies and gets emp'ed? Its my bass test.
Beginning is good but this scene Shows even more of what the Sub can do since u need so many diffrent usecases. Pressurisation for the explosions, rattle for the descent and so fourth.
Akuji
Member
I've listened to very expensive systems and they sounded more distorted than my Infinity speakers.
OpenBSD + music player daemon + OSS
OpenBSD sound demo with Infinity Alpha 5 + Sony STR-DB790.wav
ONE MILLION DOLLAR system from Aries Cerat
If this Aries Cerat recording is somewhat accurate, I can say that the guitar and trumpet definitely have less distortion (like instruments really sound) on my Infinity speakers than on the expensive AC speakers.
Aries cerat isnt about Sound quality.
Got to Listen to their speakers a couple of times, mediocre at best.
Sadly its rare for speakers to be good. As a ground rule. Everything 50k and up is crap, there may be some outsiders but i waa not able to hear them yet.
They are made to be looked at and the price tag is a Form of exclusivity, has nothing to do with the Sound.
Stafford
Member
I haven't. Just the intro part and I quit when we see the Batista character. It's been a long time that I watched the movie in full. At what timestamp approximately is that? I definitely want to check that out.
Demigod Mac
Member
Twister (1996) was recently restored in 4K (Blu-ray and AppleTV)
It's a helluva good workout for your home theater in bass and Atmos.
It's a helluva good workout for your home theater in bass and Atmos.
FateTrap
Member
The popular brands for home theatre speakers that I prefer the most are ELAC, Infinity and MartinLogan.
These brands usually outperform Klipsch in accuracy and musicality of the speaker.
The amplifier often has less impact on the sound than the speaker in my experience.
I also think that Sony amplifiers are often at the same level and sometimes a higher level than Marantz/Onkyo/Yamaha/Denon/Technics/Pioneer.
I'd be interested in a sound demo of your Onkyo/Klipsch setup anyway.
Here's how my current setup sounds:
OpenBSD demo #2 with Infinity Alpha 5 + Sony STR-DB790.wav
drive.google.com
Of course it sounds very different in reality because it is a mono recording and the microphone is not detailed enough to be an accurate reproduction.
But it does give you some idea, you can easily imagine what it will sound like.
Minsc
Gold Member
I feel like Sonos Arc (~$900?) + actual Sonos surrounds ($200 x2) and a Sonos Sub (~$700?) so you have a 7.1 gives a better sounding experience than any theater I've ever been too. Granted it's not cheap, going to run over $2k, but it's a hell of a lot less wires and crap than a traditional setup, and the TrueHD Atmos sounds truly amazing on it. Best I've ever heard and speech is super clear.
And that Sonos Sub is no joke. Pretty sure it can break glass or at least knock stuff off walls with some Atmos tracks at high enough levels.
And that Sonos Sub is no joke. Pretty sure it can break glass or at least knock stuff off walls with some Atmos tracks at high enough levels.
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Akuji
Member
i would agree.
But mainly because theatres suck so hardcore its pretty much impossible to get to a point where ur own system is even worse.
The Sonos arc is ok, and if you do the way with actual surrounds your on a pretty good way already.
cinnamonandgravy
Member
ha, sounds like you dont have much experience with high end audio; and understandably so--it does takes a special weirdo (raises hand) to spend lots of money on audio equipment.
i mean, there are individual speakers with more drivers than most people's entire surround sound systems, if you're really concerned about that sort of thing.
a lot more can be said, but my simple point is this: a whole bunch of crappy speakers surrounding you is ultimately worse than 2 really good ones.
surround sound is awesome for gaming/movies (use an atmos system myself), but buying crappier speakers just so you can get more channels isnt worth it.
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mistuhcahlos
Member
I have a Sonos beam that i absolutely love when it works. The major downside is that it relies on an app that is unstable at best. I can’t really recommend it until they fix the soundbar’s reliance on the app.
MadchesterManc
Member
Used to have a decent 6.1 system back in the day, but these days my place is a bit small for a surround setup. My TV has a simple 2.1 system built in so is fine for general Viewing, but movies need more for me.
Dropped a wedge on a JVC Exofield XP-EXT1 instead of a soundbar as decent Atmos/DTS X was a must for the UHD Bluray. Took several attempts to calibrate right (measures your ear shape) but it gives a convincing 7.1.4 sound with Atmos content. Still surprises me how well it works when hearing overhead sounds but it should be expected given the price
Dropped a wedge on a JVC Exofield XP-EXT1 instead of a soundbar as decent Atmos/DTS X was a must for the UHD Bluray. Took several attempts to calibrate right (measures your ear shape) but it gives a convincing 7.1.4 sound with Atmos content. Still surprises me how well it works when hearing overhead sounds but it should be expected given the price