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Soundbar vs home cinema sets, now for the definite answer

buenoblue

Member
Just adding that you don't need to spend much money to improve your experience. I separated from my wife a couple years ago so don't have the same spending power 😭😂. Anyway last year I bought a used Onkyo Atmos receiver and some used tannoy Hts 101 speakers( plus 2 extra satellites) from eBay for £250 delivered. I came from a Sony Atmos sound bar and the difference is astounding. Obviously you can get much better if you have the money but it really does sound really great.

I bought a returned Samsung 65 inch S95b QD OLED just before that For £750. So for £1000 you can get a very nice experience ☺️

BUadukH.jpeg
 

analog_future

Resident Crybaby
I feel like Sonos Arc (~$900?) + actual Sonos surrounds ($200 x2) and a Sonos Sub (~$700?) so you have a 7.1 gives a better sounding experience than any theater I've ever been too. Granted it's not cheap, going to run over $2k, but it's a hell of a lot less wires and crap than a traditional setup, and the TrueHD Atmos sounds truly amazing on it. Best I've ever heard and speech is super clear.

And that Sonos Sub is no joke. Pretty sure it can break glass or at least knock stuff off walls with some Atmos tracks at high enough levels.

This is my exact set up and I would never want anything more. Plus they look so clean aesthetically.
 

Minsc

Gold Member
This is my exact set up and I would never want anything more. Plus they look so clean aesthetically.

Yeah, if you haven't had the pleasure of experiencing TrueHD Atmos (not the streaming DD+ Atmos) you really got to.

Regular encoded bluray maxes up to around a 5 / 10 in separation/loudness/quality.
Dolby Digital+ Atmos like what you get from Netflix Atmos and Disney+ and so forth is 768kb/s and tops off around a 7 / 10.
TrueHD Atmos which you only get from UHD 4K blurays goes all the way to 11 / 10. That shit is something else. Averages around 6x more bitrate than streaming and can peak to 10x more bitrate, and just the sound quality jump is like going from SD > HD visually.

Playing Top Gun Maverick last night in non TrueHD Atmos the Danger Zone song kicks on and it's ok, audio is a bit weak, but switch to the real TrueHD Atmos track, and holy shit. It's an entirely different movie. All the tiny background details of the planes prepping and taking off are so much clearer, and the music is just pumping, at like 4x the volume. Suddenly what was before set to around a 40/100 for volume needs to be dropped to 20/100 and it's STILL too damn loud haha. But it sounds so good.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
3 years ago, I switched to a soundbar from a dedicated AVR setup.

Huge mistake on my part. The flagship LG soundbar was mediocre at best. I went with LG because it would work seemlessly with my LG OLED. It worked fine and sounded OK in my apartment, but I missed the dedicated setup.

The straw that broke the camels back was on my Xbox Series X Dolby Atmos through eARC had a very noticeable audio lag. Very noticeable. I don't know if it had always been there or I was just finally noticing it, but Callisto Protocol and Hogwarts Legacy are the games where I noticed it worst.

I researched HDMI 2.1 receivers and settled on an Onkyo that was was highly rated and didn't have HDMI 2.1 droputs that the first gen of 2.1 receivers were known for. Adorama also had it on sale for $300.

The real steal came when Monoprice had a sale on 5.1.2 speakers, which normally cost $250, I was able to get them for $80!!! Getting the system I currently have for $380 legit feels like highway robbery as it blows away any soundbar and I bet it destroys the highest end Sonos setups too.

I ran my PC, Xbox Series X and PS5 through the system. No audio daleys and no major handshake issues.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Just adding that you don't need to spend much money to improve your experience. I separated from my wife a couple years ago so don't have the same spending power 😭😂. Anyway last year I bought a used Onkyo Atmos receiver and some used tannoy Hts 101 speakers( plus 2 extra satellites) from eBay for £250 delivered. I came from a Sony Atmos sound bar and the difference is astounding. Obviously you can get much better if you have the money but it really does sound really great.

I bought a returned Samsung 65 inch S95b QD OLED just before that For £750. So for £1000 you can get a very nice experience ☺️

BUadukH.jpeg
So...uh why are the speakers on the wall pointed up? You should only point speakers up if they're at normal speaker height level. From that height you you should point them downward to get a better Atmos experience. Most receivers have speaker placement options built in to accomodate where the Atmos speakers are placed.
 

buenoblue

Member
So...uh why are the speakers on the wall pointed up? You should only point speakers up if they're at normal speaker height level. From that height you you should point them downward to get a better Atmos experience. Most receivers have speaker placement options built in to accomodate where the Atmos speakers are placed.
The speakers are hanging down from the picture rail. The small end is the speaker front. They are just matching satellites not dedicated Atmos speakers but it works surprisingly well.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
The speakers are hanging down from the picture rail. The small end is the speaker front. They are just matching satellites not dedicated Atmos speakers but it works surprisingly well.
There is no dedicated Atmos speakers. Atmos speakers are just regular speakers pointing upwards. In other words, any speakers (aside from a subwoofer) could serve as height speakers. I say just point them down (if possible), towards the center of the room and you should get a better experience. Just adjust the speaker setup in your receiver. I think you will be pleased.
 

Ulysses 31

Member
Samsung Q990D Soundbar has 2.1 HDMI ports unlike the previous models.

Atmos lag is reduced considerably too now. There's still a tiny amount if you focus on it but when connecting directly to the soundbar it's practically gone now.
 

buenoblue

Member
There is no dedicated Atmos speakers. Atmos speakers are just regular speakers pointing upwards. In other words, any speakers (aside from a subwoofer) could serve as height speakers. I say just point them down (if possible), towards the center of the room and you should get a better experience. Just adjust the speaker setup in your receiver. I think you will be pleased.
😭😂 There pointing right at my head lol wtf are you on about😂
I3qVCaH.jpeg
 
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S0ULZB0URNE

Member
Samsung Q990D Soundbar has 2.1 HDMI ports unlike the previous models.

Atmos lag is reduced considerably too now. There's still a tiny amount if you focus on it but when connecting directly to the soundbar it's practically gone now.
Yeah the Dragon has 3 full featured HDMI 2.1 ports that support 4K/120 VRR etc.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Samsung Q990D Soundbar has 2.1 HDMI ports unlike the previous models.

Atmos lag is reduced considerably too now. There's still a tiny amount if you focus on it but when connecting directly to the soundbar it's practically gone now.
Atmos lag is an issue when using eARC. Not when running directly through the receiver soundbar. I only ever noticed badly on Xbox Series X. As PS5, it was barely there. On PC, it was also there.

A feature I wish more TVs would include would be a 5th audio only HDMI out port, that can pass lossless Atmos and DTS:X that connects directly to the soundbar receiver. As HDMI 2.1 TVs start to add more and more gaming features and rely on DSC, I worry whether receivers can handle it.
 
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Yoda

Member
I own a legit 5.1.2 system with "audiophile" grade gear and a "high end" soundbar + subwoofer. The former is much better, if you have the money, get one.
 

Stafford

Member
The difference a sub makes!

I remember playing the Sand Land demo when I didn't have the sub yet and I felt the bass was super weak. Now with the sub it's a world of difference. I love it.
 

FateTrap

Member
ELACs i found just plain boring, so to each their own. Klipsch may be very one sided in sound charcteristiks, but atleast they provide some dynamic.

But for me its DIY anyway.

Not every speaker + receiver combination is ideal and the receiver settings can often have an impact.

Elac DFR52 + Denon DRA 800H is an excellent combo:

The comments on this video are pretty clear:
#1 Those Elac DFR52's sound awesome. Nice sound stage and vocals are very nice. Hits above its price point.
#2
Fantastic
#3 I got a pair of these for $500 and they are fantastic.
#4 I was highly impressed by those speakers. Very soft and musical presentation.

There are also many 'high-end speakers' that don't sound much better than my F&D speakers for 69 EUR.
But ELAC does not belong to this group.

This is what these 69 EUR F&D speakers sound like.
 

Akuji

Member
Not every speaker + receiver combination is ideal and the receiver settings can often have an impact.


There are also many 'high-end speakers' that don't sound much better than my F&D speakers for 69 EUR.
But ELAC does not belong to this group.

This is what these 69 EUR F&D speakers sound like.

While that is true, i dont play the speaker / Amplifier game, if you got good speakers and a good amp its a great match.
IF you go into "audiophile" land, then yeah u can buy a cool sounding speaker and pair it with a warm sounding amp to get an worse expirience then just 2 good products, but u can say u matched ur speaker and amp.

Personally none of my ... 30 amps i own have a certain characterstic, when it comes to DAC or Amp its not hard. But u cant get a consumer audiophile thingy because those just plain suck no matter what u pay, actually it gets worse when u spend more.
Like McIntosh, those things are build great and the overall design would be pretty damn good ( still way to expensive but great to look at ) if they didnt sound their amps, lol, that kinda trash doesnt get linked up into my chain, no sir.

When it comes to the ELACs, well, sure. Iam not saying there arent speakers that cost more and are worse or something. But ELACs are just plain dead when it comes to dynamic. They may have some dynamic at the bottom end because they use a
one frequency port design that gives some oompf. This is not a knock against elac because i can say the same about ... lets take the Wilson Audio Chronosonic XVX. Got to listen to it 3 times, all 3 times there was nothing exciting about the speaker.
No single atribute was better then average, but well nothing was worse then average as well. Thats why i said, its DIY for me. Because i cannot afford the more expensive speakers and even if i could, i dont know a single speaker that u can just buy
thats better then a 6/10. The best one ive heared so far are JBL Eversest DD66000.

Listened to those 2 times and while its plainfully obvious it has alot of problems at the crossover, otherwise they sound pretty good. When they try to go from the Woofer to the mid horn, they just messed something up big time.

To your recording, well yeah, cant really say much about a recording. to many influences like your room / the mic / the video compression / my dac ( or any dac at all ) / my headphones.
So i cant really say anything but what i did take away from it fairly quickly is that the base seems boomy and a one note design as well. personally i just dislike one note designs. If you listen to them for 2 Minutes in a showroom its "great"
because then the speaker just has more output at the bottom end, but you lose all the detail since ur just pushing a +3db or sometimes even way more at the tuning frequency. I prefer flat sound, gives the most detail.
But u cant have a single component ( real crossover if it isnt done to perfection ) that kills dynamic because if you cant have insane dynamic "flat" sounds boring as well.
 

Stafford

Member
What's the general consensus on subwoofer placement? Right now I have mine to the left of the TV on the ground. But I've also read that right next to seating position is best?
 

Akuji

Member
no way to tell u this, every room is diffrent. cant even simulate it since the density of the walls is likely an unknown as well as whats behind the walls.

there are systems called arrays to "control" the base. Commonly used is SBA or DBA. But its not a system that can be easily done in a living room and does cost alot since u need mutliple subs.
( an array starts with 2 , the simplest of a line array but for a real grid array for a SBA you would need atleast 4. A dba double that because u need then another 4 at the backside of your room to cancel out the base generated from the first array )

So, the easiest thing to find the right spot is to just have a yt video go very slowly through the base frequencies ( 20 - 120hz ) best done at like 1-2hz a second. then listen to it and dont listen to overall loudness but for how much the loudness changes over all the frequencies.
the spot with the least change in loudness is the right one. then put it there and adjust how loud the sub plays.
 

Stafford

Member
no way to tell u this, every room is diffrent. cant even simulate it since the density of the walls is likely an unknown as well as whats behind the walls.

there are systems called arrays to "control" the base. Commonly used is SBA or DBA. But its not a system that can be easily done in a living room and does cost alot since u need mutliple subs.
( an array starts with 2 , the simplest of a line array but for a real grid array for a SBA you would need atleast 4. A dba double that because u need then another 4 at the backside of your room to cancel out the base generated from the first array )

So, the easiest thing to find the right spot is to just have a yt video go very slowly through the base frequencies ( 20 - 120hz ) best done at like 1-2hz a second. then listen to it and dont listen to overall loudness but for how much the loudness changes over all the frequencies.
the spot with the least change in loudness is the right one. then put it there and adjust how loud the sub plays.

I've been doing some testing and right now it's to the right of my couch and I am really, really digging how it sounds. Holy shit does this sub enhance the movie and gaming experience.

Sand Land I thought had a rather weak bass, I didn't like it when it was just the soundbar. Now the room rumbles at times during cutscenes in the game and during vehicle combat the bass is insane, in a good way. Same with movies and shows, holy crap I love this.
 

Demigod Mac

Member
What's the general consensus on subwoofer placement? Right now I have mine to the left of the TV on the ground. But I've also read that right next to seating position is best?
If you can make it work and afford it, the ideal setup is multiple subs. Not necessarily to make the bass deafening, but to mitigate a phenomenon called standing waves (where the bass is inconsistently better or worse in different areas of the room no matter where you place the sub).
Multi-sub also helps reduce localization (being able to hear the direction where the bass is coming from)
Got 4 subs in each corner of the room (into my Denon X3800H with four independent sub-outs) and it sounds perfect.
 

Stafford

Member
If you can make it work and afford it, the ideal setup is multiple subs. Not necessarily to make the bass deafening, but to mitigate a phenomenon called standing waves (where the bass is inconsistently better or worse in different areas of the room no matter where you place the sub).
Multi-sub also helps reduce localization (being able to hear the direction where the bass is coming from)
Got 4 subs in each corner of the room (into my Denon X3800H with four independent sub-outs) and it sounds perfect.

I don't think that's possible with my Harman Kardon soundbar. I believe it only connects to one sub, but I'm gonna do some checking on that. I guess that's the downside to using a soundbar vs a AVR.
 

Akuji

Member
If the signal is at one sub you can do it.
If it is intended or even made more difficult on purpose is another problem.

If you Post the io Board of your sound Bar and sub i Look at it quickly. Is it a wireless sub?
 

Stafford

Member
If the signal is at one sub you can do it.
If it is intended or even made more difficult on purpose is another problem.

If you Post the io Board of your sound Bar and sub i Look at it quickly. Is it a wireless sub?

Yep, the sub is wireless in terms of connectivity, only needs a power cable into the wall.

It's this one

https://my.harmankardon.com/CITATION+SUB+S-.html

 

FateTrap

Member
After the last system update my audio on OpenBSD has suddenly gotten better.
It sounds more detailed than (default) windows and macOS audio.

Maybe they provided improved support for my motherboard.
Below you will find a sound demo of what it sounds like after the latest update.

[mid-range setup] Infinity Alpha 5 + Sony STR-DB790 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1q3F5QSv0js5rMFArFb8FA9PEvxgSiCY_/view?pli=1
[70 EUR newprice all in one budget setup] F&D F550X https://drive.google.com/file/d/1brKRXCyeyWeI3NakpqBd2glhkfiHs267/view

For this recording, I use the analogue output of my ASRock B760M-ITX/D4 WiFi motherboard. I am not using a sound card.
 
I have a small little sound bar from Sony I have been using for years and it's decent in my small room. Gets the job done. I switch between my speaker and headphones. Now compared to my roommates sound system (he works in a concert venue) that shit kicks so much ass. I know he has a Yamaha receiver but I'm not sure what speakers he got plugged in but that surround sound when I watch movies or play games is unlike anything else I have listened to. Loved reading all the comments in this thread helps me when I eventually get a house and build my own media room.
 

chakadave

Member
I’ve wanted to get a nice surround system for a while.

I’ve looked and yeah I think j could put some atmosphere speakers in my ceiling.

But I’ve also seen what the Sony Theater Quad looks like. How much it costs and the flexibility and quite convinced I’d just get yay instead of getting into a full setup.
 

Crayon

Member
I'm no audiophile but I can't hang with tv speakers. Seriously when a 2 foot sony whatever sound bar and a pair of pack-in earbuds works for me, yet I still find tv speakers unusable, you know they're bad.
 

Demigod Mac

Member
I'm no audiophile but I can't hang with tv speakers. Seriously when a 2 foot sony whatever sound bar and a pair of pack-in earbuds works for me, yet I still find tv speakers unusable, you know they're bad.
TV speakers now have to fit inside super thin frames unlike the boxy CRTs of old where they had some more breathing room.
Manufacturers can do a few clever tricks to improve the perceived output, but in the end, physics is physics.
 
Have been gaming on TV in the lounge room with 5.1 and now 5.2 setup (sub died so replaced with 2 SVS) for 14 years or so and I would never go back to TV speakers or even a sound bar. I'm sure soundbars have come a long way in that time but they weren't great when I looked at them years ago for the living room.
 
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Im running 5.1.2 now.
Denon x3800 (with OCAs audyssey one) with yamaha AS501 driving my front L&R.
Kef R3 front L&R
Kef R2c centre
Dali fazon sats rears
Dali fazon sats mid heights
BK xxls400 sub.
Would love another sub, but struggling for a spot for it.
 

Buhaj

Member
I am on the fence when it comes to picking a setup - can anyone recommend a subwoofer max 25 cm wide that would work well with a Yamaha AVR?
 

Akuji

Member
Max 25cm means 8 inch is max.

Is there any way u would diy it ?
What u can buy sadly will be ... Well to say it Kindly, trash. Could do a double Stack of tiw 200xs if you want to go low but not super loud on base. There are other options as well.
 

YOU PC BRO?!

Gold Member
I have a Sony HT-A7000 soundbar with SA-RS5 rear speakers and the SA-SW5 subwoofer.

The sound is excellent IMO.

I’m considering going in that direction. Does that setup use the connected Sony TV as a Center channel? I was also considering waiting for the Sonos Arc Gen 2 which is supposed to drop later this year or Q1 next year.

My current Samsung K950 is beginning to show its age. It doesn’t play nice with certain audio formats and is barely hanging on with a firmware update adding tentative eArc functionality via the regular Arc port.

Has anyone on here tried the new LG US95TR? I am specifically interested in the lossless wireless connect (WOWcast) technology. Apparently it offers a seamless integration with the latest LG OLEDS such as the C4.
 
Nice! I have two PB-1000 Pro with my KEF setup from 2010, replaced an old Paradigm Ultracube sub. Awesome value for money when it comes to subs, and they're way better than the Paradigm.
I got a 2nd sub but the wife immediately made me return it as it would be clearly visible in the living room lol.

My living room is quite large - but the PB 1000 Pro still does a kick ass job when the bass hits during movies. Avengers Infinity War = Eargasmic experience.

The sound experience is highly underlooked - too bad games don't take 5.1 seriously or severely underutilise the LFE channel.
 

yansolo

Member
looking for some expert opinions, after about 5 years my logitech z906s are on their last legs (turning off randomly, wont turn back on etc) but for what they were they served me quite well, even though they are quite dated at this point

there arent many options on the market for cheap 5.1 systems since everything seems to be soundbar and 2.1 stuff. Is it worth buying these again or is it better to go for something like the creative katana v2x which from what ive read has pretty good reviews.

I know neither of these options are high end but im not looking to break the bank and i dont have the setup/room for something crazy anyway.
 

Demigod Mac

Member
looking for some expert opinions, after about 5 years my logitech z906s are on their last legs (turning off randomly, wont turn back on etc) but for what they were they served me quite well, even though they are quite dated at this point

there arent many options on the market for cheap 5.1 systems since everything seems to be soundbar and 2.1 stuff. Is it worth buying these again or is it better to go for something like the creative katana v2x which from what ive read has pretty good reviews.

I know neither of these options are high end but im not looking to break the bank and i dont have the setup/room for something crazy anyway.
Same model here, the first one went out on me after 7 years of service but the 2nd has been fine so far.
If it happens again I'll probably go for a low end Denon 5.1 receiver to manage PC surround sound. Only issue is it takes up a lot more space than the z906.
You can actually continue using the Logitech's satellites with that solution, just need to get the receiver and a replacement subwoofer.
 

yansolo

Member
Same model here, the first one went out on me after 7 years of service but the 2nd has been fine so far.
If it happens again I'll probably go for a low end Denon 5.1 receiver to manage PC surround sound. Only issue is it takes up a lot more space than the z906.
You can actually continue using the Logitech's satellites with that solution, just need to get the receiver and a replacement subwoofer.
i actually never thought of that, might be something to consider in the future.

As far as the z906s go i think ive pin pointed my issue. Unless its my imagination it seems to be the connector cable, whenever i tighten the little screws on the sub connection, it starts playing up, if i move the cable a little left or right speakers switch off, if i leave the connector cable plugged in without tightening the little screws seems to be fine. I've been turning them on and off raising and lowering the volume and they seem to be working for now.
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
AVR is the prime choice if you have the room and money to set it up.

I went with the sonos arc, sub and rear era 300 surrounds and it's pretty amazing for a simple wireless sound bar set up. Expensive but I couldn't be bothered with AVR any more.
 

Stafford

Member
Stafford Stafford I want you to know how much I hate you for the thread title asking for a definitive answer to a subjective question

Hate? Damn, now that's just cold. 😭

It's probably subjective, however as much as I love my soundbar setup I do believe that if I had separate speakers and avr it would be even better. I have no doubt about that.
 
I’m considering going in that direction. Does that setup use the connected Sony TV as a Center channel? I was also considering waiting for the Sonos Arc Gen 2 which is supposed to drop later this year or Q1 next year.

My current Samsung K950 is beginning to show its age. It doesn’t play nice with certain audio formats and is barely hanging on with a firmware update adding tentative eArc functionality via the regular Arc port.

Has anyone on here tried the new LG US95TR? I am specifically interested in the lossless wireless connect (WOWcast) technology. Apparently it offers a seamless integration with the latest LG OLEDS such as the C4.
I had the k950 also. And died last week on me. I have now a cheap jbl 2.0 for the time being (still has better sound then my tv q95t). I want to buy the sony theater quad next year.
 

Soodanim

Member
Hate? Damn, now that's just cold. 😭

It's probably subjective, however as much as I love my soundbar setup I do believe that if I had separate speakers and avr it would be even better. I have no doubt about that.
I didn't say how much... Not much at all really, it's one of the world's lesser crimes
 
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