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[PeteBull]

The issue is that this "passion project" took 7 years to make for an 80 person (+contractors) studio.

That's a big chunk of $$$ for the return.

Yups, and microsoft has to recupperate that lost cash somehow, how they gonna do it? We all know how.

News  Thread 'Breaking: Xbox and Microsoft reveal global price increases for consoles, accessories — and even games'

May 1, 2025

Here's how much a new Xbox will cost you after Microsoft bumps prices

Microsoft confirmed to us today that it is increasing the price of Xbox consoles, accessories, and later this year, games as well. Here's what you need to know.

www.windowscentral.com

​

New Xbox Console Prices (United States)

Product	New Price (USD)
Xbox Series S 512	$379.99
Xbox Series S 1TB	$429.99
Xbox Series X Digital	$549.99
Xbox Series X	$599.99
Xbox Series X 2TB Galaxy Black Special Edition	$729.99

...

• Draugoth
• Replies: 1,067
• Forum: Gaming Discussion

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If game wasnt on gamepass aka could be judged fairly on its performance- it would be simply big flop- big layoffs/studio clousure.
Thats the reason many of us dont like gamepass- it promotes mediocrity. Participation trophies are ok for 4-6yo kindergarten kids, not for one of most competetive buisness-game development.

 

[BigLee74]

Simply because paying 70$ for one game is a lot more than paying 10$ for one monthly subscription.

Claims simply, then misses the point of subscription services! Chucks in a few prices pulled straight from the arse whilst at it…

 

[Sonik]

"Players"

I bet anyone who hovered their mouse over the game on Game Pass is considered a player now

 

[vaibhavpisal]

If game wasnt on gamepass aka could be judged fairly on its performance- it would be simply big flop- big layoffs/studio clousure.
Thats the reason many of us dont like gamepass- it promotes mediocrity. Participation trophies are ok for 4-6yo kindergarten kids, not for one of most competetive buisness-game development.

If it wasn't on gamepass, it would have tried to appeal to a wider demographic. Would be a more sellable product.

How is that an improvement over what we got?

 

[Mr Reasonable]

You are right, this game is a bit cheaper. 40$. And gamepass is 12$.
Still, there is a very big difference between someone that pays 40$ and someone that only pays 12$.
No matter how you cut it, MS will get a lot less money from this game.

Good thing you are talking about netflix and other video streaming services, because that is why medium budget films are almost dead.
Here is a good explanation from someone who used to make a lot of medium budget movies, and why they are almost dead, because of streaming.
And you can be sure that this is also applicable to medium budget games that are on subscription services like gamepass. And you can bet that this game, and others similar to it, will never make their money back.

A bit cheaper? Almost half the price you quoted. Gamepass isn't $12 either. D'oh!

Then some stuff from Matt Damon talking about films.

Great work!

 

[BigLee74]

tThats the reason many of us dont like gamepass- it promotes mediocrity.

I think you have spouted this nonsense for so long that you actually believe it

'Roll up for Gamepass - we actively develop shite for it, and will only buy in third party shite too'.

 

[winjer]

A bit cheaper? Almost half the price you quoted. Gamepass isn't $12 either. D'oh!

Then some stuff from Matt Damon talking about films.

Great work!

The normal Gamepass is 12§.

And you were the one who brought up netflix and cinema, to pretend that streaming is a great source of revenue.
But the reality is that it's not. Mat is just explaining how the business dynamics have change for cinema.

 

[BigLee74]

The normal Gamepass is 12§.

Which doesn't get you access to the game

 

[Hohenheim]

It's a meh game with fantastic visuals and great music. Everyone who think this is a decent game must play Clair Obscure and don't fool themselves.

I adored South of Midnight. Had a blast.
Now I'm really digging Clair Obscur, which is a very different game though.
I'm not too far into Clair Obscur yet, but a similarity is the fantastic use of music in both games.

 

[winjer]

Which doesn't get you access to the game

ffs, what tier now gives access to games like this?
I had gamepass a year ago, and I just played whatever I wanted.

 

[BigLee74]

ffs, what tier now gives access to games like this?
I had gamepass a year ago, and I just played whatever I wanted.

Actually, I keep forgetting about PC Gamepass which is considerably cheaper than the console version, so apologies if that's what you meant.

 

[winjer]

Actually, I keep forgetting about PC Gamepass which is considerably cheaper than the console version, so apologies if that's what you meant.

Yes, I play on PC. I had gamepass for 2 years.
But when MS started increasing prices and having more tiers and prices, I stopped using it.
Besides the Xbox app on PC is a pile of excrement. Having to deal with it was a pain.

 

[Topher]

ffs, what tier now gives access to games like this?
I had gamepass a year ago, and I just played whatever I wanted.

Game Pass Core $10 - You don't get the game
PC Game Pass $12 - You get the game
Game Pass Standard $15 - You don't get the game
Game Pass Ultimate $20 - You get the game

No idea why you would ever be confused. /s

 

[BigLee74]

Game Pass Core $10 - You don't get the game
PC Game Pass $12 - You get the game
Game Pass Standard $15 - You don't get the game
Game Pass Ultimate $20 - You get the game

No idea why you would ever be confused. /s

Confuses me and I have it!

 

[winjer]

Game Pass Core $10 - You don't get the game
PC Game Pass $12 - You get the game
Game Pass Standard $15 - You don't get the game
Game Pass Ultimate $20 - You get the game

No idea why you would ever be confused. /s

Thanks. What a mess.
So console gamers using gamepass are paying a lot more than PC players. That must sting.
To think I got 2 years of gamepass ultimate on PC, for a total of 40 euros...

 

[Topher]

Thanks. What a mess.
So console gamers using gamepass are paying a lot more than PC players. That must sting.
To think I got 2 years of gamepass ultimate on PC, for a total of 40 euros...

The value certainly isn't what it used to be. If I were a betting man, I'd say we will see further adjustments to tiers and pricing by the end of the year.

 

[BigLee74]

Thanks. What a mess.
So console gamers using gamepass are paying a lot more than PC players. That must sting.
To think I got 2 years of gamepass ultimate on PC, for a total of 40 euros...

I think it costs more on console due to the old 'pay to play online' tax that they saw fit to lumber us with (it's 'included' in the cost for all console tiers).

 

[PeteBull]

I think you have spouted this nonsense for so long that you actually believe it

'Roll up for Gamepass - we actively develop shite for it, and will only buy in third party shite too'.

Remind me how did gamepass workout for top of the line blockbuster franchises like halo, gears and forza ?
There is no burden of performance anymore on those teams hence we got huge drop in quality, even last forza got much worse.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Remind me how did gamepass workout for top of the line blockbuster franchises like halo, gears and forza ?
There is no burden of performance anymore on those teams hence we got huge drop in quality, even last forza got much worse.

Dunno what you talking about?

Halo Infinite > Halo 5
Gears 5 > Gears 4
Forza Motorsport I haven't played so dunno about that.

I don't think you understand core issue with all these franchises. Its going against there fanbase and trying to be full on GAAS titles. Meanwhile core xbox fanbase is old school.

Nothing to do with gamepass.

 

[adamsapple]

Game Pass Core $10 - You don't get the game
PC Game Pass $12 - You get the game
Game Pass Standard $15 - You don't get the game
Game Pass Ultimate $20 - You get the game

No idea why you would ever be confused. /s

Don't forget people who still have and maintain the original Console tier. Just new users can't buy that one anymore but those who have kept it on recurring still use it.

That one gets the day 1 games, still.

 

[Topher]

Don't forget people who still have and maintain the original Console tier. Just new users can't buy that one anymore but those who have kept it on recurring still use it.

That one gets the day 1 games, still.

"maintain". Yeah....that needs highlighting. As long as they continue to pay every single month......yeah. They decide not to subscribe once and that option is gone forever.

I'd love to know how many in the Console tier are left

 

[vaibhavpisal]

"maintain". Yeah....that needs highlighting. As long as they continue to pay every single month......yeah. They decide not to subscribe once and that option is gone forever.

I'd love to know how many in the Console tier are left

I have option to keep paying old price of GPU if I continue my subscription, in a couple of months.

Kinda inclined to keep it on. Though I do have a large purchased library that I would like to play as well.

Decisions decisions …

 

[PeteBull]

Dunno what you talking about?

Halo Infinite > Halo 5
Gears 5 > Gears 4
Forza Motorsport I haven't played so dunno about that.

I don't think you understand core issue with all these franchises. Its going against there fanbase and trying to be full on GAAS titles. Meanwhile core xbox fanbase is old school.

Nothing to do with gamepass.

My point is, from blockbuster top of the line sellers musthave exclusives we got nothing left, except that halo tv show of questionable quality

 

[Topher]

I have option to keep paying old price of GPU if I continue my subscription, in a couple of months.

Kinda inclined to keep it on. Though I do have a large purchased library that I would like to play as well.

Decisions decisions …

How did you manage to be grandfathered in on the old price?

 

[vaibhavpisal]

My point is, from blockbuster top of the line sellers musthave exclusives we got nothing left, except that halo tv show of questionable quality

Its a downtime for both Halo / Gears for sure. It was inevitable I believe.

Hopefully they go back to drawing board and come up with a compelling title. Especially they need to sort out live service part and not launch in such a way that completely takes out wind from the sails for those titles.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

How did you manage to be grandfathered in on the old price?

It just says it will renew at old price only. Its possible they may charge new prices but auto renewal page says old price.

 

[BigLee74]

Remind me how did gamepass workout for top of the line blockbuster franchises like halo, gears and forza ?
There is no burden of performance anymore on those teams hence we got huge drop in quality, even last forza got much worse.

I'll humour you. I'm bored.

Halo Infinite 87 MC
Gears 5 84 MC
Forza 8 84 MC

Hardly mediocre. And every single one of them scored well despite obvious series fatigue. I do agree that none of them are system sellers like they once were, but that's the way things are now.

Personally, Gears 5 and Halo were great (although I dropped off Halo MP much quicker than I did on Halo 5).

Have never been a proper Forza fan as circuit racing is too dry for me, but I had no problems with what I did play.

And recent first party?

Starfield 83 MC
Avowed 81 MC
Indiana Jones 86 MC
South of Midnight 77 MC
Oblivion Remastered 83 MC

Obviously some true mediocre games have been released too. Redfall - so broken at launch, I never went back to it after tapping out at 30 minutes. It (and MS) deserved every bit of shit it got thrown at it.

So you may not like the games, you may not like Xbox or MS, you may not like the idea of a subscription service, you may even be jealous that 1st party games are included, but quite obviously, Gamepass does not actively promote mediocre games.

 

[Roberts]

If it wasn't on gamepass, it would have tried to appeal to a wider demographic. Would be a more sellable product.

How is that an improvement over what we got?

Bingo!

You could argue that SoM didn't reach some sort of greatness that is usually associated with projects that were given complete artistic freedom, but the game really stands out from crowd thanks to its setting and tone. I don't think anyone would ever greenlight it if its sole purpose would have been to be a big seller. I'm glad it exists even though it probably won't be in my top10 of the year.

 

[PeteBull]

I'll humour you. I'm bored.

Halo Infinite 87 MC
Gears 5 84 MC
Forza 8 84 MC

Hardly mediocre. And every single one of them scored well despite obvious series fatigue. I do agree that none of them are system sellers like they once were, but that's the way things are now.

Personally, Gears 5 and Halo were great (although I dropped off Halo MP much quicker than I did on Halo 5).

Have never been a proper Forza fan as circuit racing is too dry for me, but I had no problems with what I did play.

And recent first party?

Starfield 83 MC
Avowed 81 MC
Indiana Jones 86 MC
South of Midnight 77 MC
Oblivion Remastered 83 MC

Obviously some true mediocre games have been released too. Redfall - so broken at launch, I never went back to it after tapping out at 30 minutes. It (and MS) deserved every bit of shit it got thrown at it.

So you may not like the games, you may not like Xbox or MS, you may not like the idea of a subscription service, you may even be jealous that 1st party games are included, but quite obviously, Gamepass does not actively promote mediocre games.

Thats crazy big decline vs:

Halo: Combat Evolved Reviews

In a desperate attempt to keep a conquering alien race called the Covenant from finding Earth, you--a cybernteically enhanced soldier representing the peak of human military evolution--and a ragtag group of Marines flee to a distant uncharted system where you unexpectedly stumble across Halo, an...

www.metacritic.com

Halo 2 Reviews

The saga continues with Halo 2 the international award-winning sequel to the highly successful and critically acclaimed Halo: Combat Evolved. In this sequel, the battle comes to Earth, and Master Chief, a genetically enhanced super soldier, is the only thing standing between the relentless alien...

www.metacritic.com

Halo 3 Reviews

Halo 3 is the third game in the Halo Trilogy and provides the thrilling conclusion to the events begun in "Halo: Combat Evolved." Halo 3 picks up where "Halo 2" left off. The Master Chief is returning to Earth to finish the fight. The Covenant occupation of Earth has uncovered a massive and...

www.metacritic.com

All the games from recent aquired studios/publishers are nothing vs skyrim:

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Reviews

The next chapter in the Elder Scrolls saga arrives from the Bethesda Game Studios. Skyrim reimagines the open-world fantasy epic, bringing to life a complete virtual world open for you to explore any way you choose. Play any type of character you can imagine, and do whatever you want; the...

www.metacritic.com

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Bingo!

You could argue that SoM didn't reach some sort of greatness that is usually associated with projects that were given complete artistic freedom, but the game really stands out from crowd thanks to its setting and tone. I don't think anyone would ever greenlight it if its sole purpose would have been to be a big seller. I'm glad it exists even though it probably won't be in my top10 of the year.

Due to its gameplay, it doesn't have much chance at coming in my top 10 either.

But I believe I will remember the game much longer than those that will.

I do enjoy titles like these from time to time. SOM, Pentiment, Hellblade 2…. none of them are mass market products and cuts out a lot of sellable qualities. But I do appreciate I get to play them, simpler titles.

 

[BigLee74]

Thats crazy big decline vs:

Halo: Combat Evolved Reviews

In a desperate attempt to keep a conquering alien race called the Covenant from finding Earth, you--a cybernteically enhanced soldier representing the peak of human military evolution--and a ragtag group of Marines flee to a distant uncharted system where you unexpectedly stumble across Halo, an...

www.metacritic.com

Halo 2 Reviews

The saga continues with Halo 2 the international award-winning sequel to the highly successful and critically acclaimed Halo: Combat Evolved. In this sequel, the battle comes to Earth, and Master Chief, a genetically enhanced super soldier, is the only thing standing between the relentless alien...

www.metacritic.com

Halo 3 Reviews

Halo 3 is the third game in the Halo Trilogy and provides the thrilling conclusion to the events begun in "Halo: Combat Evolved." Halo 3 picks up where "Halo 2" left off. The Master Chief is returning to Earth to finish the fight. The Covenant occupation of Earth has uncovered a massive and...

www.metacritic.com

All the games from recent aquired studios/publishers are nothing vs skyrim:

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Reviews

The next chapter in the Elder Scrolls saga arrives from the Bethesda Game Studios. Skyrim reimagines the open-world fantasy epic, bringing to life a complete virtual world open for you to explore any way you choose. Play any type of character you can imagine, and do whatever you want; the...

www.metacritic.com

Conveniently ignoring Halo 4 and 5?

Gears judgement, 4?

Those were all pre-Gamepass by MANY years too.

Very few franchises keep the early heights they hit. Times change, standards raise, there is far more competition all round.

Doesn't stop the fact they are all great games in their own right.

 

[StueyDuck]

can confirm that south of midnight had 2 BILLION players..... (look at the banner on their gamepass menu)

 

[ReBurn]

This game could have been very well received if it wasn't made by Xbox

I think SBI attachment was probably a bigger hurdle.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

I think you have spouted this nonsense for so long that you actually believe it

'Roll up for Gamepass - we actively develop shite for it, and will only buy in third party shite too'.

He's absolutely right.

Why do you think Obisidian came out and stated that they "want to exist 100 years" by aiming for "mild successes"?

 

[PeteBull]

Conveniently ignoring Halo 4 and 5?

Gears judgement, 4?

Those were all pre-Gamepass by MANY years too.

Very few franchises keep the early heights they hit. Times change, standards raise, there is far more competition all round.

Doesn't stop the fact they are all great games in their own right.

Yeh, now those series are mediocre, so perfect for gamepass- aka not good enough to warrant proper 70(soon 80) usd launch window sale
So we agree in the end.

What myself and most core games wanted to not continue downwards trend of halo4/5 or gears4/5, we wanted marvelous comback of those series in full glory, 90-95meta, 10m+ copies sold, and ppl wanting to buy it as a musthave exclusive for their xbox console, aka back of the times where xbox console brand was associated with top quality, not mediocrity like now.

 

[Denton]

I am in chapter 11 now and I am looking forward to it ending. It has really lovely audiovisuals, but the story is somewhat mediocre/preachy and the repetitive game structure and so-so combat really drag it down.

 

[Hawk The Slayer]

"Players"

I bet anyone who hovered their mouse over the game on Game Pass is considered a player now

Yeah 1 million players isn't that good when you factor in how anyone thats sub to gamepass would want to get their pass worth so most of them would try out any game that looks even a tiny bit interesting or have a ok budget on the pass even if they're not sure they'll like it or not but they'll still just try it out for the heck of it which adds to the count. So 1 million players among all those gamepass is pretty weak. Even announcing a 500k or 300k copies sold for a AA game would be a lot better than announcing 1 million players. Or better yet announce both the actual copies sold and game pass players like what Oblivion Remaster and E33 did.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

aka back of the times where xbox console brand was associated with top quality, not mediocrity like now.

This is some revisionist history.

I always wanted them to break out of Halo Gears Forza cycle and do what they are doing now.

 

[BigLee74]

Yeh, now those series are mediocre, so perfect for gamepass- aka not good enough to warrant proper 70(soon 80) usd launch window sale
So we agree in the end.

What myself and most core games wanted to not continue downwards trend of halo4/5 or gears4/5, we wanted marvelous comback of those series in full glory, 90-95meta, 10m+ copies sold, and ppl wanting to buy it as a musthave exclusive for their xbox console, aka back of the times where xbox console brand was associated with top quality, not mediocrity like now.

Yeah, because you've always struck me as a guy that wants the best for Xbox .

 

[Killjoy-NL]

This is some revisionist history.

I always wanted them to break out of Halo Gears Forza cycle and do what they are doing now.

You wanted them to release mediocrity?

 

[vaibhavpisal]

You wanted them to release mediocrity?

They own prolific studios.

Its a shame they became mediocre the moment they were purchased by Xbox.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Not great not terrible

 

[PeteBull]

Yeah, because you've always struck me as a guy that wants the best for Xbox .

Had og xbox , likely as only guy in my smalltown and one of the very few in my country, ofc u cant expect me to buy xbox console this gen when it has everything on pc, but thats on microsoft, my hands are clean here.

 

[mckmas8808]

It has barely 500+ scores in MS Store and never was even remotely in top-50 most played.

At this point I'm convinced that MS is just feeding us with slop stats.

This means it (with the 30x guide) it probably sold around 20,000 to 25,000 copies on Xbox.

 

[FMX]

This game was better than Concord and more successful too!!

 

[Killjoy-NL]

This game was better than Concord and more successful too!!

At least Sony had the decency to refund in full.

 

[L*][*N*K]

I think SBI attachment was probably a bigger hurdle.

What is SBI?

 

[Little Chicken]

It has barely 500+ scores in MS Store and never was even remotely in top-50 most played.

At this point I'm convinced that MS is just feeding us with slop stats.

The store shows user ratings per region.

 

[ReBurn]

What is SBI?

Sweet Baby Inc

 

[Skifi28]

This game was better than Concord and more successful too!!

That's a great benchmark to set for future releases. "It wasn't bad enough to be cancelled after release and fully refunded"