OG_Original Gamer
Member
Nintendo must be expecting all current GBA devs to move onto DS development, I would assume if the next GBA is built on GC tech, then the titles would need GC development funds.
Sp0ng putting it on the line: Says DS=PDA and GBA 2=PSP like machine at E3
- Thread starter Hollywood
- Start date
That would rock if it had next-gen graphics (or at least GameCube-equivalent), and it worked as both a portable and a home console. Kinda reminds me of my iPod that I bought for its' portability, but I use it as my home stereo system just as much as I use it on the go.
Oh the possibilities...
Oh the possibilities...
SantaCruZer said:
I admit that I thought the third pillar talk was a load of bunk. Guess GDGF gets owned again :lol
Still, I am digging this 'news'. If the 'Game Jesus' (as Drinky Crow so fittingly dubbed it
)really does play GCN discs (and Nintendo did say a verrry long time ago that the discs would be perfectly suited to a portable format, and that they were thinking about that future occurance when they created them), well, count me in!
If this machine plays all GBA software and all GCN software, well, dare I say it? Greatest gaming device ever!
Oh, and don't forget that one of Yamauchi's last requests to Iwata (before he handed over the company) was that he wanted Nintendo to create more hardware in the future, not less.
If this is true (and I hope it is), then it's got Yamauchi's blessing.
Sounds acceptable ONLY if:
1. GameJesus = $149, DS = $99 on release
2. Justify those tiny GC discs by making the GameJesus GC compatable
DS basically then becomes the final phase of the GBA since it can play those games (multiplayer GBA'ers gotta stick to their old SPs) with the ability to play unique Dual Screen games at N64 quality. DS games will slow to a halt, but depending on how well it keeps selling and how well they can add/market PDA functionality, you might see more than you think.
GBA2 doesn't need to be compatable with the GBA...leave that for the DS. But GBA2 will have already have a large library of GC games (many of which can be found very cheap). For the first time since Turbo Graphix Express you can now play a console game and continue it on a handheld (and vice versa) directly if it uses a compatable memory card slot. New games for the GBA2 will also be GC compatable, extending the lifespan of the GC console, or making things interesting if the Revolution is ALSO GC backward compatable.
If everything turned out that way, I'd actually pass on the PSP and grab the next Gameboy. Why not? It would be better connected to console gaming, I'd already own the GBA2 player (the GC) and I'd already own some compatable games (and can pick up many more used and cheap). And if it's designed similar to the PSP in features and look (big screen, analogue stick, some kinda memory slot for movies, USB connection to cpu), at cheap price ... it'll be good enough to consider putting down cash for another Nintendo handheld.
Still fucked up, but not as fucked up as stuff like the SegaCD-32X-Saturn where it was confusing as all hell what you were supposed to buy. GBA2 will have many playable games before new content is even made making it a strong consideration against the PSP. DS can survive on GBA games if nothing else, even though the occasional DS game will still appear for awhile
1. GameJesus = $149, DS = $99 on release
2. Justify those tiny GC discs by making the GameJesus GC compatable
DS basically then becomes the final phase of the GBA since it can play those games (multiplayer GBA'ers gotta stick to their old SPs) with the ability to play unique Dual Screen games at N64 quality. DS games will slow to a halt, but depending on how well it keeps selling and how well they can add/market PDA functionality, you might see more than you think.
GBA2 doesn't need to be compatable with the GBA...leave that for the DS. But GBA2 will have already have a large library of GC games (many of which can be found very cheap). For the first time since Turbo Graphix Express you can now play a console game and continue it on a handheld (and vice versa) directly if it uses a compatable memory card slot. New games for the GBA2 will also be GC compatable, extending the lifespan of the GC console, or making things interesting if the Revolution is ALSO GC backward compatable.
If everything turned out that way, I'd actually pass on the PSP and grab the next Gameboy. Why not? It would be better connected to console gaming, I'd already own the GBA2 player (the GC) and I'd already own some compatable games (and can pick up many more used and cheap). And if it's designed similar to the PSP in features and look (big screen, analogue stick, some kinda memory slot for movies, USB connection to cpu), at cheap price ... it'll be good enough to consider putting down cash for another Nintendo handheld.
Still fucked up, but not as fucked up as stuff like the SegaCD-32X-Saturn where it was confusing as all hell what you were supposed to buy. GBA2 will have many playable games before new content is even made making it a strong consideration against the PSP. DS can survive on GBA games if nothing else, even though the occasional DS game will still appear for awhile
Future said:
Oh yeah, remember the US NDS morning conference that came the day after their Japan PSP spoiling show? One of the more interesting bits of info that came out of it was that Nintendo was courting many a mobile phone devhouse for NDS development. Also, remember Square stating their intent to bring some of their mobile phone games to the NDS?
Seems like the pieces are fitting together.
Cruel Bastard Mario said:
So sharing some hardware with phones are peices falling together? The truth is that Without conventional controls included DS wouldnt have been a success. No one would have wanted DS for touch screen alone. People want their conventional games too and DS is proof of that. Therefore DS didnt replace anything. If DS had better graphics would there have been reason to release GBASP2?
GBASP2 is obviously here to get the main market. It should be successful due to kiddies alone but the adults will go for PSP.
Guy LeDouche
Banned
HAHAHAH. I can't believe you guys. If Nintendo makes GBE play GCN software, they might as well throw money into the sun. I posted this in the other thread, but Nintendo/Sony/MS make money from software sales, not hardware. They recoup the losses of hardware development and sales through software. If the games are already out there, have already been purchased and applied to the Gamecube in terms of "recouping losses" then what is the GBE going to do? It's rediculous and would be the worst business decision Nintendo ever made. Sure, just about ever GC owner would almost have to buy a GBE by default, but that means at launch, lots of hardware being sold (at no profit or at a loss, as a portable handheld GC with respectable battery would cost Nintendo alot) and no software. Why? Everybody already has the software.Cruel Bastard Mario said:If this machine plays all GBA software and all GCN software, well, dare I say it? Greatest gaming device ever!
You guys are getting too hyper and giddy over something that would never happen.
edit: I do expect GBE to put out GC-quality visuals, but it won't be GC-compatible.
Deg said:
If Nintendo's intent was to seperate the NDS from the Gameboy line by turing into their first PDA like mobile device, then yeah, sharing some hardware with phones is an example of those pieces falling together. As for the other comment, Nintendo never said that the NDS would replace anything. It was always intended to be an alternative product to the Gameboy line in their eyes (and it has been a very successful one so far). People do want conventional games too, and that's what the Gameboy Evolution is for, apparently. I guess we agree, there
ironichaos
Member
Nintendo Revolution
Nintendo DS
Game Boy/GameCube
What's everyone bitching about? Why don't you cry about buying a GameCube instead. If the handheld is indeed backwards compatible with the GameCube, it's basically a portable GameCube. But then, what's the big freaking deal then? You already own a GameCube, so you don't need to buy a fricking portable version (just like you millions didn't need to buy the dang cosmetically enhanced GBA SP or PStwo)! Nintendo has three lines of hardware and respective software. Three pillars.
Nintendo Revolution -- a console that appeals to Donkey Konga fanatics.
Nintendo DS -- a console that appeals to Touch Yoshi fanatics
Game Boy/GameCube -- a console that appeals to people who play traditional video games.
Oh no! Nintendo is ruined!
Nintendo DS
Game Boy/GameCube
What's everyone bitching about? Why don't you cry about buying a GameCube instead. If the handheld is indeed backwards compatible with the GameCube, it's basically a portable GameCube. But then, what's the big freaking deal then? You already own a GameCube, so you don't need to buy a fricking portable version (just like you millions didn't need to buy the dang cosmetically enhanced GBA SP or PStwo)! Nintendo has three lines of hardware and respective software. Three pillars.
Nintendo Revolution -- a console that appeals to Donkey Konga fanatics.
Nintendo DS -- a console that appeals to Touch Yoshi fanatics
Game Boy/GameCube -- a console that appeals to people who play traditional video games.
Oh no! Nintendo is ruined!
Guy LeDouche said:
I'd imagine that development for Gamecube/Gameboy Evolution would continue into the future. Nintendo has stated that they see the GCN line selling for some time to come, and maybe this is what they ment by that? Most every third party out there already has a Gamecube development kit, and if the Gameboy Evolution uses the same tools and software, well, i'm sure that would make third parties more confident in their investment.
Also, maybe this is another reason that Nintendo sees no problem in releasing new sequels to Zelda and Mario for the GCN so close to the end of it's lifetime? Makes ya think.
Guy LeDouche
Banned
You missed my point. It's the financials. Sure, every gamer would love the console, but Nintendo needs games to recoup losses. Everybody saying, "Man, that'd be sweet to play Sunshine/Zelda/RE4/etc on GBE" would be contributing to the problem. GC needs its games for profitablity (didn't Perrin say Nintendo has a "minimal" loss on the GC at the $99 price point at last E3?) and the GBE will need its games for profitablity.Cruel Bastard Mario said:
Take off your Nintendo-colored glasses and put the shoe on Sony's foot. They are *probably* losing some money on each PSP sold, how much I'm not sure (I've never seen an exact number here). They rely on PSP software to help cushion the blow. Hell, all the Nintendites can say in Japan hardware sales threads is "Damn, PSP software sales are horrible. They need to sell more games to make money." Nintendo would be worse off than Sony is. IF every single Gamecube owner bought a GBE (sounds good, right?), they would be selling two high-tech pieces of hardware for every one piece of software. Horrible business decision. If you went to NOA and proposed that to the Board of Directors, you would get laughed not only out of the building, but all the way out of Washington state.
How is the new GameBoy supposed to come in at $99 if it plays Cube games? If that's the case it would be a pretty huge shift in Nintendo's philosophy of handheld. It would not be very durable, the battery life would not be very long, and they would definitely be losing a lot of money on it.
Someone else at OA just suggested that this might become another revision to the current Gameboy form factor and feature set.....with no change to the actual silicon inside. That's based purely on the CNN article, of course. If you believe Spong, then I guess big changes are in order.
Someone else at OA just suggested that this might become another revision to the current Gameboy form factor and feature set.....with no change to the actual silicon inside. That's based purely on the CNN article, of course. If you believe Spong, then I guess big changes are in order.
Scottlarock
Banned
my guess its going to be a DS-LITE without the stupid pad.... a DS without the touch.....hence the cheaper price.
Guy LeDouche said:
That's a very good point, but there are factors here that we're not considering. First, the Gamecube's sales (already pretty anemic at this point) are more than likely going to hit a brick wall in the near future, what with new hardware from all three major manufacturers on it's way. Production of the GCN was halted some time ago, and although it was continued later, I wouldn't be surprised to see it end again very soon (in its current form anyway) I'm pretty sure it's shelf space will be all but gone come the introduction of this new handheld technology. Bad, yes, but that kind of solves the problem of the two systems compeating for the same software revenue (at a retail level anyway) at the same time. (and as an aside, the GCN is currently being sold at a very small loss to a profit, anyway)
Also, considering that this new GCN would be a handheld, it could potentially sell to millions of people who never actually bought a Gamecube console to begin with (and if the success of the GBA proved one thing, it was that there are millions of casual gamers out there that are handheld gamers only). They would be new customers in effect, bottom line wise.
Now you just have the problem of bargin bin software taking away sales from new games. This would be an issue to some extent, but any third party that jumps into development for a system after its initial release faces the same issue. If I buy a PS2 today, I have the option of purchasing bargin bin games, or new software at full price. Most people do a bit of both, and still, development for the platform continues
Seriously though, if you recall, several high profile N64 games were released at the end of the N64's lifetime that didn't sell as well as they probably would have had there been new interest in the system (speaking of Majora's Mask, Conker, and Perfect Dark if you couldn't guess...and yes I realise that those games had other factors that limited their penetration, but falling interest in the N64 as a viable platform was certainly one of them) Now here's my scenerio. Perhaps Nintendo feels that if they can effectively 'repackage' the Gamecube as a portable, phase out the console version of the GCN, and release compelling software at the same time (Zelda and Mario 128) then the extra sales would be enough to balance out most or all of the losses. It should be remembered that Pokemon Diamond and Pearl will also see release by the end of 2005, and we all know that Pokemon money is big money. If they were going to soak a hit using gains from other revenue streams, 2005 would be the year to do it.Lastly, about your board of directors comment, let's not forget that the idea of a Gamecube compatible handheld using the GOD format came from the top dog of Nintendo himself, Iwata. (years ago, actually)
Maybe i'm right and maybe i'm wrong, but it at least seems possible. Should make E3 all the more interesting this year, anyway
I'm beginning to believe this news now. But I agree with the speculation it's just based on Gamecube architecture and not backwards compatible (Nintendo even went out of it's way to complain DS software sales sucked because of B/C with GBA). Throw in things like battery suckage from streaming and the fact that even if the screen was the size of PSP (And I'd expect it to be a little smaller to get the form factor smaller), what would that do to resolution? Part of the reason NES to GBC games had to be redone some was the fact they were different resolutions and NES games couldn't fit on the entire GBC screen. This would surely be the same with Game Jesus. You would need optimization purely from a resolution POV if nothing else.
What's going on? What happened?Deg said:nintendo have lost it pretty much. Only afew companies like SEGA are stupider. So expect some dumb stuff if its anything like GC
I stop paying attention to the Nintendo threads for a little while, and it seems like all of a sudden Deg and Speevy are Casamassing constantly.
ironichaos
Member
Hell, and then we must remember Nintendo also has a new Kirby coming, Mario Baseball...and there's even rumors that a new Pokemon Colosseum/RPG as well as Mario 128 is coming to GameCube (as confirmed by Reggie in the January Electronic Gaming Monthly).
Really, I don't think the idea is as inconceivable as some people are making it out to be.
Also, recall Matt C.'s comments in the IGN mailbag not too long ago...
Guy LeDouche
Banned
You bring up some valid points, so let me address some of them:Cruel Bastard Mario said:That's a very good point, but there are factors here that we're not considering. First, the Gamecube's sales (already pretty anemic at this point) are more than likely going to hit a brick wall in the near future, what with new hardware from all three major manufacturers on it's way. Production of the GCN was halted some time ago, and although it was continued later, I wouldn't be surprised to see it end again very soon (in its current form anyway) I'm pretty sure it's shelf space will be all but gone come the introduction of this new handheld technology. Bad, yes, but that kind of solves the problem of the two systems compeating for the same software revenue (at a retail level anyway) at the same time. (and as an aside, the GCN is currently being sold at a very small loss to a profit, anyway)
Now you just have the problem of bargin bin software taking away sales of new games. This would be an issue to some extent, but any third party that jumps into development for a new system faces the same issue. If I buy a PS2 today, I have the option of purchasing bargin bin games, or new software at full price. Most people do a bit of both, and still, development for the platform continues
Lastly, about your board of directors comment, let's not forget that the idea of a Gamecube compatible handheld using the GOD format came from the top dog of Nintendo himself, Iwata. (years ago, actually)
Maybe i'm right and maybe i'm wrong, but it at least seems possible. Should make E3 all the more interesting this year, anyway
1.) Yes, if the GC is phased out totally, the GBE would be an excellent idea. Its the PStwo to the next step. But if they are competing for shelf space while sharing games, that's really bad business. That's the equivelent to the PSP costing Sony $400 per unit to produce instead of $200 (remember, two pieces of hardware per 1 unit of software).
2.) Your example about buying a PS2 today and taking advantage of the cheap software sounds okay, but (1) the PS2 is profitable for Sony and (2) The PStwo isn't competing with the PS2, as its the same fucking thing to Sony (and that the PS2 isn't being produced anymore). It's still the same hardware.
3.) edit: misread the part about the GODs
All in all, it just wouldn't be a smart business move for Nintendo, despite the internet eruption that would result from an announcement that GBE played GC games. If it came as Nintendo was stopping all production of the GC (like Sony did with the PS2 once the PStwo came out), then it would be a really smart idea. That's the reason why Sony is getting such high regards for the PStwo as it's causing people who already have a perfectly fine PS2 to buy another one (myself included). But again, the PS2 and the PStwo are the same hardware. GC and GC-compatible GBE would be different hardware sharing the same software.
edit: But we are debating over Spong conjecture. I do think that there will be a DS:SP at some point, and I also believe the GBE will have GC-quality visuals, it just won't be GC-compatible. Didn't Nintendo throw lots of jabs Sony's way because the PSP is an optical-media based portable?
mashoutposse
Ante Up
Enigma said:
Also, they will have to contend with designing the console around the Gamecube controller. PSP had the good fortune of being based on a controller like the Dual Shock (good layout, good looks). I don't think Nintendo would want the GBA2 to look anything like the GC controller...
AniHawk said:
Well therell likely be a colossal flaw somewhere i bet as usual. Giving them credit they are smarter in the handheld scene and i look forward to see what they come up with. PSP is far from perfect.
Speevy said:
:lol they really hate me right now. Gotta keep a low profile i guess.
mashoutposse said:
Dual Shock? Apart from symbols that never came to my mind.
Guy LeDouche said:
I just bolded that one statement, because it's also the only way I see this new portable machine (as an extention of the Gamecube family, anyway) coming to frutition
I do see it as a likely move if done right , though. Nintendo has to phase the GCN out soon. Why not bring out a Gamecube compatible portable device to protect their shelf space?Deg said:
I meant that statement in general. Lately (as in, for the past few months), you've been trying way too hard to make up for past grievances.
They could probably pull off a Hori-type controller well.
Cruel Bastard Mario said:I just bolded that one statement, because it's also the only way I see this new portable machine (as an extention of the Gamecube family, anyway) coming to frutition
Yeah, I think it's a pretty easy way to phase out the GC and introduce the GBE. It'd be much more effective than having GC, GBE, DS, Revolution, and any GBA games in development.
mashoutposse
Ante Up
Deg said:
I guess it's a bit more apparent in person.
Guy LeDouche
Banned
Exactly, it's a fantastic idea. But hasn't Nintendo said in the past that the GC will have a long life, prolonged by add-ons and peripherals? I must admit I don't follow Nintendo as closely as I do Sony, but I believe that was said.Cruel Bastard Mario said:I just bolded that one statement, because it's also the only way I see this new portable machine (as an extention of the Gamecube family, anyway) coming to frutition
I just don't see Nintendo completely halting all production of the GC as soon as the end of next year. Also, remember that the PStwo is more profitable for Sony than the PS2 and it's the same hardware. Nintendo will have to sink alot of coin into R&D for a GC-compatible handheld. Let's look at the concerns - screen size and resolution (the PSP's biggest drain), getting GC games (text included) to be legible and not hurt your eyes (my main problem with the PSone LCD screen was that you couldn't read text in RPGs) and battery life, which again is something Sony gets alot of heat for.
There's lots of positives, but many negatives as well. Nintendo really has to be careful how they present this and market this to the public (assuming GBE is GC-compatible).
Guy LeDouche said:
About 3 years ago, Miyamoto stated in an interview that he'd like the system to last until 2008.
On a side note, they could have a dock where the GBE plugs into so you can play it on the TV/recharge. The toughest thing, as you said, would be R&D getting things with the hardware right.
Guy LeDouche
Banned
Okay, thanks for clearing that up (re: 2008). A built-in, or even aftermarket GBE-player would be an excellent idea as well. I really hope Sony comes up with something similar to that for the PSP.AniHawk said:
Off-topic, but I really want to say that I am thoroughly enjoying this discussion. Rare is the message board where fanboys don't shit on every thread before a decent discussion can begin, but I love GAF. I could do with a few less "BOMBA"s, but overall, great debate. So much so that while trying to sneak a peek at a reply, I veered right off the track in GT4.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
nm
so, current and upcoming Nintendo handhelds
GBA
GBA SP
DS
new GBA revision
new DS PDA
Next Generation GameBoy
???
I suppose they've already made the old GBA go away, and they could do without some new PDA version of the DS, and also do without some new GBA revision. keep things as simple as possible: GBA SP - DS - New GameBoy
...rather than have 6 handhelds out within 5 years.
GBA
GBA SP
DS
new GBA revision
new DS PDA
Next Generation GameBoy
???
I suppose they've already made the old GBA go away, and they could do without some new PDA version of the DS, and also do without some new GBA revision. keep things as simple as possible: GBA SP - DS - New GameBoy
...rather than have 6 handhelds out within 5 years.
PREDICTIONS:
REVISED
"Touching is good, go right now............touch someone."
"DS games that do not make heavy use of touchscreen features will choke on deez nuts."
"After the loss of Mario and Pokemon, DS owners will kill themselves rather than face the prospect of 3 more years of Nintendogs and Yoshi Touch N' Go 2: Electric Boogaloo."
REVISED
"Touching is good, go right now............touch someone."
"DS games that do not make heavy use of touchscreen features will choke on deez nuts."
"After the loss of Mario and Pokemon, DS owners will kill themselves rather than face the prospect of 3 more years of Nintendogs and Yoshi Touch N' Go 2: Electric Boogaloo."
You know, you are either on the camp of saying that the ds bombed and it is smart for Nintendo to do a next generation gameboy or on the camp of the guys who say that the DS is really the third pillar and it wasnt meant for current gamers. Either way you are a dumbass for buying the DS.
mashoutposse
Ante Up
Deg said:
...which is why I made my original statement that the PSP's designers were fortunate to have a relatively conservative and unoffensive design to use as the foundation of their efforts.
ZombieSupaStar
Member
I havent bought a handheld since a gba (which I sold 2 weeks later do the lighting being shit)
if I bought a DS id be pissed right now, oh wait...everyone bought one to be a pda is the story now?
ah well *kicks his gc*
if I bought a DS id be pissed right now, oh wait...everyone bought one to be a pda is the story now?
ah well *kicks his gc*
ZombieSupaStar
Member
because thats what im hearing in this thread
*pushes anihawk over a magazine rack*
*pushes anihawk over a magazine rack*
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...which is why I made my original statement that the PSP's designers were fortunate to have a relatively conservative and unoffensive design to use as the foundation of their efforts.
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It's not as if the Nintendo designers would have much of a problem. Not like that bean-button layout had anything to do with anything other than their weird thought that it would improve control somehow. No need to make it look like that, and Sony has no real advantage there.
What might be tough is implementing the dual analogues and possibly the z button that the PSP also left out. Not to mention the trigger clicks for like the 2 games that use that. A portable GC probably isn't what they reveal, even though it would definately kick ass. Hopefully it will have some reason to buy it other than just being a copy of PSP design.
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You know, you are either on the camp of saying that the ds bombed and it is smart for Nintendo to do a next generation gameboy or on the camp of the guys who say that the DS is really the third pillar and it wasnt meant for current gamers. Either way you are a dumbass for buying the DS.
--------------------
:lol
...which is why I made my original statement that the PSP's designers were fortunate to have a relatively conservative and unoffensive design to use as the foundation of their efforts.
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It's not as if the Nintendo designers would have much of a problem. Not like that bean-button layout had anything to do with anything other than their weird thought that it would improve control somehow. No need to make it look like that, and Sony has no real advantage there.
What might be tough is implementing the dual analogues and possibly the z button that the PSP also left out. Not to mention the trigger clicks for like the 2 games that use that. A portable GC probably isn't what they reveal, even though it would definately kick ass. Hopefully it will have some reason to buy it other than just being a copy of PSP design.
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You know, you are either on the camp of saying that the ds bombed and it is smart for Nintendo to do a next generation gameboy or on the camp of the guys who say that the DS is really the third pillar and it wasnt meant for current gamers. Either way you are a dumbass for buying the DS.
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:lol