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Space: The Final Frontier

J

Joates

Banned
Teh Hamburglar said:
I'm having a hard time picturing what the physical nature of the black hole is. I have no frame of reference for such an object.
Click to expand...

Imagine if the sun was compressed to the size of a ping pong ball, same mass in a much much smaller space. That's a black hole.

But if what you're trying to ask is what is at the center of a black hole as far as the physical nature goes, Im pretty sure no one knows for sure.
 
K

Kud Dukan

Member
Insane Metal said:
Haha, that's even more fucked up. Many people have the understanding of what space time is, but can't actually explain it. Like me.

Edit

I remember that on Stephen Hawking's the Universe (episode 2 I think) there's a moment where he says that close to a big black hole, space time is so distorted that you can actually 'travel' around it for 1 year, for example, but outside that zone, time might have gone by 100x faster. So you'll be 1 year older, but everything outside will be 100 years older.
Click to expand...

Yep, it's the same effect as if you were to jump into a spaceship and start flying around at some massive speed (approaching the speed of light) for a while and then coming back to Earth. From your perspective you may have only been gone for a few weeks, but to those back on Earth it may have been (depending on how fast you were traveling back on that spaceship) months or years.
 
M

McNei1y

Member
Insane Metal said:
I remember that on Stephen Hawking's the Universe (episode 2 I think) there's a moment where he says that close to a big black hole, space time is so distorted that you can actually 'travel' around it for 1 year, for example, but outside that zone, time might have gone by 100x faster. So you'll be 1 year older, but everything outside will be 100 years older.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't your body age or would you really age 1 year while everyone else 100? (hypothetically) I'm just trying to understand all this awesomeness.
 
P

Prez

Member
Joates said:
Imagine if the sun was compressed to the size of a ping pong ball, same mass in a much much smaller space. That's a black hole.

But if what you're trying to ask is what is at the center of a black hole as far as the physical nature goes, Im pretty sure no one knows for sure.
Click to expand...

Isn't the content of a black hole just all the atoms of the objects inside without all the empty space (atoms are 99.99% empty space after all)? What more could there be?
 
K

KarmaCow

Member
Teh Hamburglar said:
I'm having a hard time picturing what the physical nature of the black hole is. I have no frame of reference for such an object.
Click to expand...

By its very nature, we can't observe the actual size of a blackhole. It's just assumed to be a singularity, a single point of zero radius because there is nothing to counter act the force of gravity crushing everything in. The picture above is the size of the event horizon, where light can actually escape, not the physical size of blackhole itself.
 
E

Escape Goat

Member
KarmaCow said:
By its very nature, we can't observe the actual size of a blackhole. It's just assumed to be a singularity, a single point of zero radius because there is nothing to counter act the force of gravity crushing everything in. The picture above is the size of the event horizon, where light can actually escape, not the physical size of blackhole itself.
Click to expand...

This is why I'm not a rocket surgeon. I read the theory but my brain just can't comprehend. Thanks for the clarification y'all.
 
Q

Quazar

Member
One has to be careful in saying that a black hole gets bigger and heavier,(They do but... just picture a hole that sinks, and if you fell down in it than you'll just keep falling down and down and down. Picture the fabric of space as a water well that essentially keeps going down, not even necessarily getting wider.
 
R

RankoSD

Member
Prez said:
Isn't the content of a black hole just all the atoms of the objects inside without all the empty space (atoms are 99.99% empty space after all)? What more could there be?
Click to expand...

Yes, in a life of a star there is a constant battle between gravity (that's pulling in) and nuclear fusion energy (that's pushing out).
So when a super giant star runs out of its fuel, gravity wins and starts squashing everything inward to the size of a city until it rebounds launching a supernova explosion leaving behind a small super dense object.
In that implosion the densities become so high that the protons and electrons get squeezed together to form neutrons, all the air of the atoms gets squeezed out of it and all that is left is a ball of neutrons which we call a Neutron star or a Pulsar.
Neutron star is a baby black hole that will never become one :p

Good BBC documentary on stars (hour and a half):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9JCqZak9n4

Every atom that gets eaten by black hole is stored somewhere and remembered, they can eat stuff and grow or they can spit stuff and eventually evaporate.

Also, I think that the black holes are extreme Neutron stars that are spinning faster then the speed of light...
 
Insane Metal

Insane Metal

Member
McNei1y said:
Wouldn't your body age or would you really age 1 year while everyone else 100? (hypothetically) I'm just trying to understand all this awesomeness.
Click to expand...

Your body would age only 1 year. It's not just the "sensation" of time slowing down. It's time actually slowing down.
 
Q

Quazar

Member
RankoSD said:
Yes, in a life of a star there is a constant battle between gravity (that's pulling in) and nuclear fusion energy (that's pushing out).
So when a super giant star runs out of its fuel, gravity wins and starts squashing everything inward to the size of a city until it rebounds launching a supernova explosion leaving behind a small super dense object.
In that implosion the densities become so high that the protons and electrons get squeezed together to form neutrons, all the air of the atoms gets squeezed out of it and all that is left is a ball of neutrons which we call a Neutron star or a Pulsar.
Neutron star is a baby black hole that will never become one :p

Good BBC documentary on stars (hour and a half):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9JCqZak9n4

Every atom that gets eaten by black hole is stored somewhere and remembered, they can eat stuff and grow or they can spit stuff and eventually evaporate.

Also, I think that the black holes are extreme Neutron stars that are spinning faster then the speed of light...
Click to expand...

Solar mass has to do with how a star becomes a neutron star or a black hole. Neutron star is approx 1-3 solar masses, black hole more than ~3
 
A

asa

Member
RankoSD said:
Cassini is still snapping pictures, Saturn’s north pole vortex from 2 days ago:









Click for higher res.

For the size comparison, you can put two Earths in that hexagon.
Click to expand...

Came here to post that, amazing shot!

Here's some info about the picture and color composites (from color filter data I presume) http://www.universetoday.com/98667/incredible-raw-image-of-saturns-swirling-north-pole/

And...
saturn_cassini_npole_stormLocked.gif


:O
 
M

Maklershed

Member
I thought this was pretty interesting:

Vast systems of ancient caverns on Mars may have captured enormous floodwaters

Rodriguez and the research team came to this conclusion after studying the terminal regions of the Hebrus Valles, an outflow channel that extends approximately 250 kilometers downstream from two zones of surface collapse.

The Martian outflow channels comprise some of the largest known channels in the solar system. Although it has been proposed their discharge history may have once led to the formation of oceans, the ultimate fate and nature of the fluid discharges has remained a mystery for more than 40 years, and their excavation has been attributed to surface erosion by glaciers, debris flows, catastrophic floodwaters, and perhaps even lava flows, Rodriguez said.

....

Possible caverns have been recently identified on Mars, and their existence has caught much scientific and public attention because of their potential as exobiological habitats. However, their age and dimensions remain uncertain. The discovery of vast caverns that existed in ancient periods of Mars shows that these habitats may have in fact existed during billions of years of the planet's history, Rodriguez said.
 
G

gestra

Neo Member
3

3phemeral

Member
Tk0n said:
A black hole isnt a "hole". Its a supermassive object, so heavy that it bends space around itself. When swallowing a star, it just gets bigger and heavier.
Click to expand...

[edit] I actually just brushed up on supermassive black holes and realize that the object itself can actually span light hours across.

Was always under the impression the black hole itself is incredibly small and dense, thus it's gravitational effect on space.

wxPQs.gif
 
F

fallout

Member
I saw Stephan's Quintet through a 20-inch dob once. Absolutely marvelous. Like, just the concept of those photons hitting my eyeball. Gaaahhh I love astronomy but it's hard to describe that feeling you get when you're so awestruck.
 
L

Log4Girlz

Member
fallout said:
I saw Stephan's Quintet through a 20-inch dob once. Absolutely marvelous. Like, just the concept of those photons hitting my eyeball. Gaaahhh I love astronomy but it's hard to describe that feeling you get when you're so awestruck.
Click to expand...

You are in physical contact with structures thousands, millions, billions of light years away. Particles which were released before mankind evolved are striking you all the time.
 
W

WeAreStarStuff

Member
fallout said:
I saw Stephan's Quintet through a 20-inch dob once. Absolutely marvelous. Like, just the concept of those photons hitting my eyeball. Gaaahhh I love astronomy but it's hard to describe that feeling you get when you're so awestruck.
Click to expand...

20-inch Dob; I'm jealous!

Also, that feeling is called truth. Feels good man.
 
F

fallout

Member
I'd like to say it was MY 20-inch Dob, but sadly not. Still fortunate, though.

Also, "truth" ... I like that. :)

Log4Girlz said:
You are in physical contact with structures thousands, millions, billions of light years away. Particles which were released before mankind evolved are striking you all the time.
Click to expand...
Yeah, there's just something about seeing a cluster of galaxies in a telescope. I dunno, like I said ... hard to put into words.

Should have sent .... a poet ....
 
P

Prez

Member
GaimeGuy said:
Opportunity may be sitting on top of clays


Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu-
Click to expand...

Most important part from that:

"We've been seeing sulphate minerals from day one with this rover. These sulphates form under very acid conditions. And even though water was present, if it's that acid it would be very challenging as a place for life to take hold.

"However, if it's not acid, if it's the kind of water you can drink, it's the kind of water that's going to be more suitable for life; and that's what the clays point to," he told BBC News.
Click to expand...
 
M

Maklershed

Member
Anybody see how cool the moon looked this morning (at least in the northeast US)? It was huge, low on the horizon, almost eclipse, and there was an insanely bright star next to it .. venus?
 
Melchiah

Melchiah

Member
Dr Zhivago said:
Fake, sadly. No way the Milky Way would be visible.
Click to expand...

I didn't even notice that before you mentioned it. Oh well, beautiful pic nonetheless.



EDIT: http://settlement.arc.nasa.gov/70sArt/art.html
A couple of space colony summer studies were conducted at NASA Ames in the 1970s. Colonies housing about 10,000 people were designed. A number of artistic renderings of the concepts were made.

yS0eu.jpg


S1JQG.jpg


YJ5Om.jpg


9E0md.jpg
Click to expand...
More pics in the link.

Some of those remind me of Mass Effect's Citadel.
 
D

Deadly Cyclone

Pride of Iowa State
So as an amateur Astronomer who wants to get back into Astronomy, what books should I read? Are there any textbooks I should check out? I took one Astronomy course in college, so I want to start building from the basics.
 
P

Partial Gamification

Banned
jerry113 said:
400 km river spotted on Titan, one of Saturn's moons. Picture in link.

http://scitechdaily.com/cassini-spots-a-nile-like-river-valley-on-titan/
Click to expand...

Cool pic corroborates the imagery seen from Cassini/Huygens:
Early imaging of Titan from the Cassini mission was consistent with the presence of large bodies of liquid on the surface. The photos showed what appeared to be large drainage channels crossing the lighter coloured mainland into a dark sea. Some of the photos suggested islands and mist shrouded coastline. On January 18 it was reported that Huygens landed in "Titanian mud", and the landing site was estimated to lie within the white circle on the picture to the left. Mission scientists also reported a first "descent profile", which describes the trajectory the probe took during its descent. -wiki
Click to expand...

The [scitechdaily] article also mentions "rainfall" but does not note that this is likely methane or ethane.
It is still very cool to see such an active super-system.

"Nile on Titan," queue the pyramid conspiracies; begin operation: "Titanium Giza." -Sorry, can't help it; I'm a bit looney.
 
L

Lucky Forward

Member
The Best Astronomy Images of 2012


IC1396_animation2.gif


IC1396 is a huge cloud of gas and dust, a star-forming factory 100 light years across. Massive, hot, young stars in the center have blown an enormous cavity in the center of the nebula, their fierce stellar winds and blasting ultraviolet light eating the cloud away from the inside out. J-P Metsävainio is a Finnish astrophotographer who took several images of this sprawling cloud, broke them up into layers, made a computer surface model of the structure, then remapped it all into different frames seen from different angles. The finished product is this jaw-dropping three-dimensional animation. I’ll note this is an approximation to the real structure of the nebula, an educated guess. But it gives an incredible feel to the object and a real sense of what it must really be like.
Click to expand...
 
L

Lucky Forward

Member
R2D4 said:
So the coloring is fake isn't it? Like all these other amazing photos? Takes a lot out of it if it is.
Click to expand...

From the photographer's website:

http://astroanarchy.blogspot.com/2009/11/colors-in-astro-images.html

There is many "Schools" in astro imaging, some are more purist, than others. I have some principles in my work too. As an astro imager I don't add anything to images. Only manipulation done is Stretching, curves and levels. As an artist I balance different components in an image differently, so I can show the hidden beauty by a way I like to.
Click to expand...

Also, all of the images on this page look to be of a similar color and they're under the heading, "Natural Colors."
 
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