Charles Foster Kane
Rosebud
SM2>SM1>>>>>SP3>>>>>ASM1>>ASM2
Spider-Man 1/2 vs Amazing Spider-Man 1/2
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gutter_trash
Banned
fixed
Or as someone said, a nice compilation of trailers put together as a movie. Just like MoS.
Raimi no contest. They're just better films period, regardless of how someone feels about the camp or the actors. There are actually character arcs. Peter, in all three of Raimi's movies grows as a character and is a better person for it at the end of each film. On top of that, his actions always have consequences. Peter in the Webb films learns nothing in either movie. There is zero arc.
I'm also not sure what is so magical about the "chemistry" between Gwen and Peter in the Webb films. Are they better actors? Sure, maybe. I would give someone that even if I have a soft spot for Tobey, I still like Garfield. I don't think Garfield himself is the issue at all. But we never earned Gwen and Peter's relationship. Dude fell for a girl and he gets her immediately, that's it. Peter and Mary Jane earned their relationship in the Raimi films. And while Peter and MJ have plenty of corn ball dialogue, Webb's rambling and banter between his two leads isn't great chemistry. All they're doing is filling up the already long run time with worthless banter that does nothing for the audience. Okay, they're in love, we get it. That's about as deep as the relationship for Peter and Gwen goes.
And there is just no contest on the Oscorp bad guy of the week from Webb's films compared to Raimi's. Even Sandman has more going for him than Electro did.
I'm also not sure what is so magical about the "chemistry" between Gwen and Peter in the Webb films. Are they better actors? Sure, maybe. I would give someone that even if I have a soft spot for Tobey, I still like Garfield. I don't think Garfield himself is the issue at all. But we never earned Gwen and Peter's relationship. Dude fell for a girl and he gets her immediately, that's it. Peter and Mary Jane earned their relationship in the Raimi films. And while Peter and MJ have plenty of corn ball dialogue, Webb's rambling and banter between his two leads isn't great chemistry. All they're doing is filling up the already long run time with worthless banter that does nothing for the audience. Okay, they're in love, we get it. That's about as deep as the relationship for Peter and Gwen goes.
And there is just no contest on the Oscorp bad guy of the week from Webb's films compared to Raimi's. Even Sandman has more going for him than Electro did.
He has no chemistry with Emma Stone. The break up scene was fucking hilarious because it was an incredibly awkward, out of no where, and just overall didn't make much sense.
Doctor Decimate
Member
I haven't seen ASM2, but ASM1 simply is not as emotionally effective and the last 20 minutes or so are fucking laughable to the point where I'm shocked it doesn't get more criticism.
This is almost exactly where I fall. It's a shame too considering that the Amazing Spiderman series has a far better cast that fits the roles better than the previous cast did.
Jorok Goldblade
Member
The part that keeps coming up in my mind is how much ASM botched the death of Uncle Ben (as well as it's buildup and fallout) to the point that it completely loses the point.
The story is simple - Peter refuses to do the right thing and lets a criminal steal from somebody who he feels deserves it, and later that criminal kills Uncle Ben. Peter catches up with the killer and realizes its the same guy, and that Uncle Ben would still be alive if he put aside his ego and did the right thing when he had the chance. The Raimi films absolutely nailed this (until they went back and sabotaged it with the Sandman retcon...)
ASM messed this up royally. First, they were so afraid of retreading old ground that they changed "With great power there must also come great responsibility" into some other line that is so clumsy and awkward that it doesn't leave any impact. Then, they never have Peter catch the criminal. He suspects it might be the same guy, but he never has the moment that confirms it, instead hunting down every thug with the same hair color. Its not Uncle Ben's death that turns Peter into a hero in these movies - its his girlfriend's dad not approving that does.
The core motivation for Spider-Man is guilt. The Webb movies change it to revenge and a mystery box. Revenge is fine for Batman. The mystery box is fine for Wolverine. Neither of those characters are Spider-Man.
That said, Stone's Gwen > Dunst's MJ, there was some great Spider-Fu, mechanical webshooters were nice and mixing up Maguire and Garfield might yield a perfect actor for Spidey. Its just that they try so hard to be different from the Raimi movies that they miss core elements of who Peter Parker is and why he puts on the mask.
The story is simple - Peter refuses to do the right thing and lets a criminal steal from somebody who he feels deserves it, and later that criminal kills Uncle Ben. Peter catches up with the killer and realizes its the same guy, and that Uncle Ben would still be alive if he put aside his ego and did the right thing when he had the chance. The Raimi films absolutely nailed this (until they went back and sabotaged it with the Sandman retcon...)
ASM messed this up royally. First, they were so afraid of retreading old ground that they changed "With great power there must also come great responsibility" into some other line that is so clumsy and awkward that it doesn't leave any impact. Then, they never have Peter catch the criminal. He suspects it might be the same guy, but he never has the moment that confirms it, instead hunting down every thug with the same hair color. Its not Uncle Ben's death that turns Peter into a hero in these movies - its his girlfriend's dad not approving that does.
The core motivation for Spider-Man is guilt. The Webb movies change it to revenge and a mystery box. Revenge is fine for Batman. The mystery box is fine for Wolverine. Neither of those characters are Spider-Man.
That said, Stone's Gwen > Dunst's MJ, there was some great Spider-Fu, mechanical webshooters were nice and mixing up Maguire and Garfield might yield a perfect actor for Spidey. Its just that they try so hard to be different from the Raimi movies that they miss core elements of who Peter Parker is and why he puts on the mask.
Close the thread done and done. I love Spiderman 1 and 2. Still watch them from time to time. Also that Evil Dead nod in Spiderman 2..so good.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Man. I can understand people having different preferences between the first two movies but I find it absolute crazy town that anyone wouldn't consider SM3 the worst out of all of them. Crazy Town I SAY! That thing is only a few notches above Batman & Robin imo.
Killing_Joke
Member
SM2>>>SM1>>>>>>>>>>>>>SM3>ASM1>>>>>>>>>>>ASM2.
ASM2 is one of the worst superhero movies ever made.
ASM2 is one of the worst superhero movies ever made.
Yeah, they ruined what could have been an awesome Venom movie by casting Topher Grace and by making Venom play second fiddle to... Sandman, ugh. Hopefully one day we get to see a Venom/Spiderman movie worth seeing.
gutter_trash
Banned
SM1 > SM2 >>>>>>>> ASM2 >>>>> SM3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ASM1
I hated the retelling of the origin story of ASM1, it was so much weaker than SM1's
SM1's origin story ranks really high among one of the best origin stories in a Super Hero movie. Reason why I rank SM1 high
ASM1's origin story was bleh, reason why I rank it really low
I hated the retelling of the origin story of ASM1, it was so much weaker than SM1's
SM1's origin story ranks really high among one of the best origin stories in a Super Hero movie. Reason why I rank SM1 high
ASM1's origin story was bleh, reason why I rank it really low
Doctor Decimate
Member
eh. Spider-Man 3 is a trainwreck, but i think it's a fun trainwreck.
Rogue_Ledr
Banned
Raimi takes a giant crap all over Webb's films.
Everything was superior in Raimi's films. The directing, the scripts, the storytelling, even the casting.
Tobey Maguire >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Andrew Garfield
Everything was superior in Raimi's films. The directing, the scripts, the storytelling, even the casting.
Tobey Maguire >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Andrew Garfield
The Hermit
Member
Spider man 2 is the better movie of all the 4.
Amazing Spider Man 2 has the best Peter/Spiderman characterization by far though.
The first ones I don't care much.
Amazing Spider Man 2 has the best Peter/Spiderman characterization by far though.
The first ones I don't care much.
Liquidsnake
Banned
I think I am of this opinion too. Especially having re watched the OG three recently.
But Venom didn't play second fiddle to Sandman, he was kind of the bad guy the entire movie. For a large portion of the film, Peter is the bad guy thanks to the symbiote, then he moves onto Broc to finally become the Venom character everyone wants to see. Venom himself has little screen time, but the symbiote was the threat the entire time.
GuitarAtomik
Member
I can see the argument that by being so bad it starts to become entertaining, and in comparison to ASM1 (which is pretty mediocre) that makes it more enjoyable to watch. But I would never call it a better movie or rank it above it any more than I would rank Mortal Kombat Annihilation above Schindler's List just because it would be more fun to watch.
gutter_trash
Banned
CreeperBlocks
Banned
Raimi's Spiderman 2 Is GOAT
Andrew is a great spidey but a horrible Peter Parker. Toby on the other hand is a fine Peter Parker but a horrible Spider-man.
Also i did not give two shits on the New Harry he was the absolute worst,James Franco was better.
Webb's Movies Suck. I have no hope that ASM3 will be any good at all.
Andrew is a great spidey but a horrible Peter Parker. Toby on the other hand is a fine Peter Parker but a horrible Spider-man.
Also i did not give two shits on the New Harry he was the absolute worst,James Franco was better.
Webb's Movies Suck. I have no hope that ASM3 will be any good at all.
Garfield is a great actor, I think the movie weighs mostly on the strength of his acting. Anyone who likes him, should check out "Boy A", really good UK drama
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1078188/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1078188/
Killa Sasa
Member
Is this even a discussion? Outside of the action and characterization of Spider-Man in the suit, the Webb films are kind of bad. This is coming from a huge Spider-Stan.
Spider-Man stories don't need to make a lot of sense, but I don't think it's a huge ask to want them to be coherent. The actors and visuals of the ASM series are better, but everything else -- especially characterization of the most important person, PETER PARKER -- is way off. There's no arc. He stays exactly the same throughout the movies.
Don't get me wrong, ASM2 is fun but it's brainless and I couldn't sit through a rewatch because as good as the action is, the movie just isn't there in full. There's about 20 minutes of good movie within that 2.5 hour package. It's not the editing mess that ASM1 was, I guess?
BTW, it's no fault of the actors, it seems. The story is just nonsensical, even for comics. The bar has been raised, in the series (SM1/2) and even one month earlier it was in The Winter Soldier.
Spider-Man stories don't need to make a lot of sense, but I don't think it's a huge ask to want them to be coherent. The actors and visuals of the ASM series are better, but everything else -- especially characterization of the most important person, PETER PARKER -- is way off. There's no arc. He stays exactly the same throughout the movies.
Don't get me wrong, ASM2 is fun but it's brainless and I couldn't sit through a rewatch because as good as the action is, the movie just isn't there in full. There's about 20 minutes of good movie within that 2.5 hour package. It's not the editing mess that ASM1 was, I guess?
BTW, it's no fault of the actors, it seems. The story is just nonsensical, even for comics. The bar has been raised, in the series (SM1/2) and even one month earlier it was in The Winter Soldier.
gutter_trash
Banned
why was Doctor Connors a Brit? He was supposed to be US veteran who lost his arm in the war (whatever War depending on time piece our story is set)
ASM1's Lizard was badly exucted
ASM1's Lizard was badly exucted
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
IMHO, if you put Garfield and Stone into the Raimi films with the Raimi scripts, I'm pretty certain they could do much better than both Toby and Dunst did in the Raimi movies. They are both great at acting, it's the horrible scripts in TASM1 & 2 that bring the movies down and make it seem like Toby and Dunst do a better job.
bigmit3737
Member
Damn everyone seems to like Spider-Man 2 and I really thought it was mediocre when I first saw it.
It's the one where Spidey's mask was taken off and the public sees his face in the bus / train right ?
It's the one where Spidey's mask was taken off and the public sees his face in the bus / train right ?
Yes and that part was great, which is funny because that scene could so not be done today. Spidey's face would be all over Facebook, Instagram and Twitter within seconds.
Killing_Joke
Member
I don't get how Raimis were more campy/cheesy.
Crane scene, Web hand, 8yo in spidey costuming taking on Rhino, Every scene that had Electro, Those are the best kind, etc. The new movies were full of this shit.
Crane scene, Web hand, 8yo in spidey costuming taking on Rhino, Every scene that had Electro, Those are the best kind, etc. The new movies were full of this shit.
disappeared
Banned
I never thought of it that way. Interesting.
But yeah, Raimi's SM1 and SM2 set the Spidey-bar pretty high.
Charles Foster Kane
Rosebud
That's just lame wannabe Raimi. Webb just didn't pull it off.
Maximus.
Member
Raimi is a great director, but the old spiderman movies haven't aged well and I find them cheesy. Tobey and Kirsten were the wrong people to cast and I thought that since day 1. Webbs Spiderman I find to be more in line with how he should be, though Spidernan 2 is a bit of a mess story wise. The lizard could have been so much more and Webb has chosen some cheesy moments to put into his movies, but overall I think I enjoy his movies more.
Amentallica
Unconfirmed Member
If you asked me ten years ago, I would have preferred the older Spider-man movies. Now? I think Amazing Spider-man is better, despite its own unique problems.
gutter_trash
Banned
Webb lacks any emotional believability.
ASM2
Max/Electro's persona was pegged with One dimensional flaw that fueled his motivation, a flaw that was too simplistic and not believable
Harry's curb was too fast to be believed
William Defoe pwns all ya
ASM2
Max/Electro's persona was pegged with One dimensional flaw that fueled his motivation, a flaw that was too simplistic and not believable
Harry's curb was too fast to be believed
William Defoe pwns all ya
BlackBanditSho
Member
Sp1 = unwatchable
Sp2 = EXCELLENT
Sp3 = bad
Am 1 = average
AM 2 = unwatchable to the point of making me appreciate Sp3 a little more.
Sp2 = EXCELLENT
Sp3 = bad
Am 1 = average
AM 2 = unwatchable to the point of making me appreciate Sp3 a little more.
Great post.
I love how people call out the Raimi films for being too campy then praise Electro in ASM2, who is the fucking reincarnation of Edward Nygma from Batman Forever.
Rogue_Ledr
Banned
Well you might have a point about Garfield and Stone working within inferior films.
I will admit that Stone is definitely the superior love interest.
However, I still firmly believe that Maguire is the better Spiderman.
Rogue_Ledr
Banned
OH yeah and one more thing:
They really need to go back to the organic webshooters.
I hate this lame crap in the new movies where Spidey keeps losing his webshooters.
Raimi's solution was elegant and far more sensical.
They really need to go back to the organic webshooters.
I hate this lame crap in the new movies where Spidey keeps losing his webshooters.
Raimi's solution was elegant and far more sensical.
I don't think Garfield has the nerd look of Raimi's Peter to pull it off.
Raimi's Spiderman is way above that it's not even a question for me. I almost felt bored during the ASM1. While the second ASM was better, it wasn't anywhere close to the quality of Spiderman 2.
Spiderman 2 is probably one of the best superhero movies made that still holds up.
Spiderman 2 is probably one of the best superhero movies made that still holds up.
gutter_trash
Banned
SM2 is not the best because the loss of powers related to high stress is not believable in the non-mutant super hero Marvel universe
Just_myles
Member
I just saw Amazing 2, and I will say this, Webb's Spiderman is the more accurate representation of the character, by far and away.
However Raimi's 'movie' is much better. If I rate them as movies, Raimi wins.
However Raimi's 'movie' is much better. If I rate them as movies, Raimi wins.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Raimi's and it isn't even close for me. There is some stuff here and there that I occasionally like about the new ones, but Raimi's appealed to be overall and I feel like that universe is built in a way that shows the love he had for the character and world.
GitarooMan
Member
Wow I couldn't disagree with this more, the organic webshooters are easily amongst the worst decisions in the Raimi movies.
Liquidsnake
Banned
Can i have a Tobey Maguire crying avatar too.
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