Spider-Man 1/2 vs Amazing Spider-Man 1/2

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Charles Foster Kane said:
U mad bro?

Also, isn't the bold exactly what the villains in Webb's movies have tried to do? A lot less competently, though.
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U mad bro? Nice rebuttal.

Electro was goofy on purpose but Harry had better motivation than Doc Ock or Sandman or Venom.

Just because they spend a lot of screen time on Doc Ock doesn't mean he was well developed. Speaking of character who caused their own demise - Doc Ock became what he was because this genius scientist decided to become dumb while doing his experiment.
 
SM1 Origin story >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ASM1 Origin story

the retelling of the same story we know in an inferior manor makes ASM1 inferior

the worst part is that ASM1's origin story was longer with more minutes of medicoreness
 
IncandescentPrecept said:
U mad bro? Nice rebuttal.

Electro was goofy on purpose but Harry had better motivation than Doc Ock or Sandman or Venom.

Just because they spend a lot of screen time on Doc Ock doesn't mean he was well developed.
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Harry is well motivated, but only because Spiderman is a fucking dumb ass.
Why the hell does Spiderman's blood cure him?
Why does Spiderman not give him the blood?
Why does Spiderman find out that the spidey blood only works with him, but then not tell Harry about it?
What the fuck is Harry doing while Electro is fighting Spiderman? Why doesn't he kill Gwen then? Is it because he wants Spidey to feel responsible for her death? Because it's not his fault anyways, she clearly hits the ground and would hit it regardless of him shooting the web at her.
Why doesn't Harry launch a bigger attack on Oscorp, considering how much he hates them? Instead, he just helps them out by letting Spidey kill Electro and then getting himself arrested. Why didn't he let Electro distract Spiderman while he attacked Oscorp, or double team Spiderman and then attack Oscorp again?
 
Doc Ock was great he stayed true to who he was through the entire film. He was a narcissistic scientist. Peter told him his experiment wouldn't work in the beginning of the movie and Doc is too sure of himself, he laughs at the suggestion. When shit goes down and dangerous Harry tells Ock to shut it down, but he's still naive in saying he's got things under control. Then his wife dies, the only thing that got him to look away. The whole thing goes awry and when Spider-Man stops it Ock is fucking pissed that he has the audacity. He still thinks he can finish the experiment. This is before the AI chip in his neck even fucks up, this is all Octavius. Then when he fucks up he blames Spider-Man, but doesn't go after him, he goes after freaking funding so he can do the experiment and finish it this time. Then he gets Osborn to help him with funding as long as he brings him Spider-Man. Sure why not? Fuck Spider-Man right he ruined the experiment. Then when Spider-Man stops everything and reveals himself to Octavius, Otto realizes he was wrong in the beginning because of the lesson Peter learned from either Otto in the beginning of the movie or Uncle Ben (I can't recall right now). He decides he doesn't want to "die a monster," and gets satisfying character redemption in death. Where Norman turned into the biggest scumbag in death from the first movie (don't tell my son, also going for the kill shot after begging for mercy on Pete's conscious). Doc Ock was done fantastically and nothing in TASM comes close.
 
Infinitemadness said:
Alot of the fans of the Webb movies on why they're "superior" (get it?) sound as if they would be satisfied with 2hrs of Spider-Man swinging, hanging with Gwen and fighting only. No one ever defends the "plots" of these films or the lack of character development. Its clearly a youtube generation that favors these movies. Those with the shorter attention spans and only know instant gratification. This does not make a good movie, for any character/genre of film.

I'm team Raimi. I enjoyed the stories for Goblin and Doc Ock and wish Venom had that chance as well. Regardless, no one can ever claim Tobey is a crybaby after this film. A guy with Daddy issues is pretty and isn't my Spider-Man.
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This looks correct.
 
This shouldn't even be a debate, the Raimi films, even if you only compare the two as coherently edited stories, are so so so much better.

There are some individual elements of the Webb movies that are good, like Andrew Garfield, but as a whole they are just disjointed, boring messes.

The Webb movies may be truer to the comics, but they're just not good movies. At least Spider Man 3 was an entertaining mess.
 
Spider-man - 9.5/10
Spider-man 2 - 10/10
(Spider-man 3 - 8/10)
Amazing Spider-man - 7/10
Amazing Spider-man 2 - 8/10

Enjoyed all the films quite a bit, but Raimi stomps hard. Sorry Webbheads...

sogood.gif
 
Webb's Spider-Man films has a much better Spider-Man, Peter Parker, and chemistry with the love interest. Which makes it all the more disappointing that the reboots are a pile of uncoordinated random garbage. The Spider-Man scenes may be cool (with ASM2 really hitting a stride), but that doesn't fix what a hot mess the plot, character development, and pacing issues are.
 
broncobuster said:
The movie you describe is The Avengers and it's great. That's misrepresenting the problems with ASM2.
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And it works for The Avengers considering almost every hero in that film had character development/back stories in their own films. Even the villain had development in Thor and any further back story would have been redundant.

This Spider-Man reboot isn't in a place to do this if they're introducing new villains left and right. If this was Spider-Man vs The Lizard again, sure, bring on the action.
 
Hatchtag said:
Harry is well motivated, but only because Spiderman is a fucking dumb ass.
Why the hell does Spiderman's blood cure him?
Why does Spiderman not give him the blood?
Why does Spiderman find out that the spidey blood only works with him, but then not tell Harry about it?
What the fuck is Harry doing while Electro is fighting Spiderman? Why doesn't he kill Gwen then? Is it because he wants Spidey to feel responsible for her death? Because it's not his fault anyways, she clearly hits the ground and would hit it regardless of him shooting the web at her.
Why doesn't Harry launch a bigger attack on Oscorp, considering how much he hates them? Instead, he just helps them out by letting Spidey kill Electro and then getting himself arrested. Why didn't he let Electro distract Spiderman while he attacked Oscorp, or double team Spiderman and then attack Oscorp again?
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- The device his father gave had information on the spider research. So from that?
- My guess is that he was either being selfish or he was truly worried what the blood would do to Harry.
- Can't remember the movie - maybe he didn't get the chance.
- Wasn't he dying in his office or something? Just before he got the suit? He also finds out who Gwen is to Spider-Man after Electro is defeated. I'm not sure when you mean he should have killed Gwen.
- Launch a bigger attack on Oscorp? Why? He got what he wanted - which was access to the premises.
- Also, letting himself get arrested or be arrested because Spider-Man neutralised him?
- How would he have attacked Oscorp by himself? He needed Electro to be there. Also, he didn't know about the suit until later so there's no way for him to have told Electro to wait so that they could attack Spider-Man together.

These types of nitpicks - I could do the same with the Raimi Spider-Man movies if I watched them recently.
 
Trike said:
Webb's Spider-Man films has a much better Spider-Man, Peter Parker, and chemistry with the love interest. Which makes it all the more disappointing that the reboots are a pile of uncoordinated random garbage. The Spider-Man scenes may be cool (with ASM2 really hitting a stride), but that doesn't fix what a hot mess the plot, character development, and pacing issues are.
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Yes Garfield is good as Spidey, but that is like only good thing about ASM movies. They are just bad and sloppy films.
 
Trike said:
Webb's Spider-Man films has a much better Spider-Man, Peter Parker, and chemistry with the love interest. Which makes it all the more disappointing that the reboots are a pile of uncoordinated random garbage. The Spider-Man scenes may be cool (with ASM2 really hitting a stride), but that doesn't fix what a hot mess the plot, character development, and pacing issues are.
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Don't you think the relationship between him and Gwen felt a little forced? Especially with that whole breakup scene and the complete lack of real conflict between them.
 
No contest the Sam Rammi movies were better.

I have a soft spot for Spiderman 3 I dont think it is as bad as everyone says. Spiderman 2 was very very well done.

Spiderman 1 still pretty good also,I like Tobi Magure Peter Parker better too.
 
PeskyToaster said:
Upon a rewatch I found the Rami Spidermans to be pretty cheesy and lame. Don't really hold up for me at all. I loved them as a kid though.
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This is pretty much my feeling. My friend put it best: Raimi's Spiderman movies were the shit when everyone thought this was going to be all we ever got out of comic book movies. But now that Marvel has stepped up their game, they're really not as great as your nostalgia wants them to be.

ASM and ASM2, to me, are much better overall movies. Quite frankly, ASM2's score blows most other superhero movie scores out of the water (with the exception of Winter Soldier, which was also amazing). I also think Andrew Garfield/Emma Stone are way better leads than Tobey Maguire/Kirsten Dunst. And Dane Dehaan kills it as Harry Osborn.
 
I need to re-watch Raimi's Spidey 1 & 2, it's been a while. I do really like TASM series though. Garfield & Stone > Tobey & Dunst
 
IncandescentPrecept said:
- The device his father gave had information on the spider research. So from that?
- My guess is that he was either being selfish or he was truly worried what the blood would do to Harry.
- Can't remember the movie - maybe he didn't get the chance.
- Wasn't he dying in his office or something? Just before he got the suit? He also finds out who Gwen is to Spider-Man after Electro is defeated. I'm not sure when you mean he should have killed Gwen.
- Launch a bigger attack on Oscorp? Why? He got what he wanted - which was access to the premises.
- Also, letting himself get arrested or be arrested because Spider-Man neutralised him?
- How would he have attacked Oscorp by himself? He needed Electro to be there. Also, he didn't know about the suit until later so there's no way for him to have told Electro to wait so that they could attack Spider-Man together.

These types of nitpicks - I could do the same with the Raimi Spider-Man movies if I watched them recently.
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These aren't nitpicks, aside from asking why it cures him. These are legitimate issues that make the characters seem incredibly stupid and unbelievable. Spiderman and Harry act incredibly dumb, and it's hard to root for someone who's just making the dumbest possible choices.

Anyways:
-Spidey did get the chance, and chose to do an adorable love note to Gwen Stacy instead, while his childhood friend was dying and not knowing why Spidey wouldn't help him.
-He does get the suit, though it's not clear that it's before or after Electro starts his attack on the city. I assumed it was before, because the scene was before.
-Because Oscorp betrayed him?
-I mean after becoming the Goblin, he just drops his grudge against Oscorp out of no where. They fired this guy and betrayed him, and he doesn't give a fuck.

Just, really, none of the actions anyone does in this movie make any sense. Its hard to root for or against anyone who's acting so god damn dumb.
 
SM2 > ASM2 > SM1 > ASM1 > SM3

Spider-Man 2 is one of the genre's kings. Supremely well-constructed blockbuster from every angle.

Amazing Spider-Man 2 is a flawed and uneven movie but I enjoyed it way more than I thought I would, and might have the best live action representation of Spidey.

Spider-Man is a charming movie that tells its story well enough, but I've kinda cooled on it lately. A recent rewatch had me kind of frustrated with Peter's Asperger-esque characterization. Tobey plays him in SM2 with a sort of confidence behind the rejections and Parker luck scenarios; he clearly wants to do more and be more in his life but can't, and it's easy to empathize with. In SM1, he's just inept and can barely socialize. It's an annoying performance and not exactly who Peter Parker is.

ASM1 feels like a very paint-by-numbers, written-by-committee type film. It has its moments but feels too soulless too often. The movie is helped in a big way by Emma Stone as Gwen, who is just awesome.

Spider-Man 3 is one of the most disappointing films I've ever seen. It just makes a lot of wrong decisions on important plot points, and contrary to popular belief that Sony fucked up the works by shoehorning Venom in, I think the black suit angle is one of the movie's stronger points (or at least could have been) and fits in nicely with the revenge/forgiveness themes here. It's just severely undercooked and buried by a number of other contrived and mishandled subplots. It has some good moments though, like the birth of Sandman sequence and Pete and Harry's second fight. Also, as dumb of a plot device amnesia is, I actually liked seeing Harry as a nice guy for a while. He's basically an asshole in both preceding movies so it was nice to see why these guys were friends at all.
 
2 > 1 > ASM2 > 3 > ASM

and the only reason asm2 is over 3 is because i really liked the initial spiderman scenes. that scene with the kid and the bullies is what spiderman is all about (TO ME)
 
Spider man 1 = 8/10

Spiderman 2 = 9/10

Amazing spiderman 1 = 7/10

Amazing spiderman 2 = 5.5/10 ( action film or a romantic film? not sure... What I am sure of is that it's probably the least enjoyable hero film I have watched in the last couple of years, simply because of how crappy the parker/gwen parts were. I was pretty much face palming throughout those moments in the film because they played out so badly.
Kinda was relieved when she died
Action was very good though and prefer this spiderman more so than Maguire Spiderman, other way around for peter parker)
 
Raimi films had him;

jk-simons-jjj.jpg


He was so good that the new films didn't even try to bring back the character.

So yeah, SM1 and SM2. No contest.
 
Spiderman 2 is probably Top 5 of best comicbook movies ever made.

The new ones well I saw the first and I don't want to see it again, I do prefer Garfield to Tobey though, is not even debatable.
 
Why did they have to reboot it though? Spiderman 3 was disappointing, but that didn't necessarily mean that a hypothetical Spiderman 4 would also be disappointing. They could have even brought Venom back if they wanted to to give him a truly focused movie.
 
Infinitemadness said:
Alot of the fans of the Webb movies on why they're "superior" (get it?) sound as if they would be satisfied with 2hrs of Spider-Man swinging, hanging with Gwen and fighting only. No one ever defends the "plots" of these films or the lack of character development. Its clearly a youtube generation that favors these movies. Those with the shorter attention spans and only know instant gratification. This does not make a good movie, for any character/genre of film.

I'm team Raimi. I enjoyed the stories for Goblin and Doc Ock and wish Venom had that chance as well. Regardless, no one can ever claim Tobey is a crybaby after this film. A guy with Daddy issues is pretty and isn't my Spider-Man.

edit: that should have said "isn't pretty" on that last sentence.
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BLACKLAC said:
This looks correct.
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Ditto.
 
Toa TAK said:
Oh hell, it doesn't take much to be better than Spider-Man 3, if TASM3 fails at that I don't know what hope there is for Spider-Man in films.
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slow harry osborn and ASM2 spoiler
the loss of gwen stacy
...yeah. reaching spiderman 3 status is gonna be an uphill battle
 
Stormtrooper said:
Don't you think the relationship between him and Gwen felt a little forced? Especially with that whole breakup scene and the complete lack of real conflict between them.
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Yes, parts of it did feel forced. But they were good together, and it was pretty believable that they were in love. They actually started going out in real life because of the first film. ASM2 actively tries to fight this by making Peter be extremely unlikable and creepy towards her at points. No Gwen, stalkers are bad. Baaaaad. Not romantic.
 
Dafoe is fucking awesome as Goblin, the problem is, what the hell does he want? He's just flying around, cackling like a loon for no real reason in particular. But Dafoe chews it up beautifully.

Sub_Level said:
Why did they have to reboot it though? Spiderman 3 was disappointing, but that didn't necessarily mean that a hypothetical Spiderman 4 would also be disappointing. They could have even brought Venom back if they wanted to to give him a truly focused movie.
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Cheaper to reboot than resign a director and cast for a fourth time.

All the things being pitched for SM4 sounded fucking terrible anyway.
 
Infinitemadness said:
Alot of the fans of the Webb movies on why they're "superior" (get it?) sound as if they would be satisfied with 2hrs of Spider-Man swinging, hanging with Gwen and fighting only. No one ever defends the "plots" of these films or the lack of character development. Its clearly a youtube generation that favors these movies. Those with the shorter attention spans and only know instant gratification. This does not make a good movie, for any character/genre of film.

I'm team Raimi. I enjoyed the stories for Goblin and Doc Ock and wish Venom had that chance as well. Regardless, no one can ever claim Tobey is a crybaby after this film. A guy with Daddy issues is pretty and isn't my Spider-Man.

edit: that should have said "isn't pretty" on that last sentence.
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Totally agree.

I could write a lot about why the Raimi films take a giant dump on the new ones but it really boils down to the fact that they just had loads of heart. From the music, to the light hearted, goofy moments, down to the grim, emotional moments. They just ooze charm and heart.
 
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