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[Zing]

Rollers overpowered? Add it to the list. Already the splattershot and aerospray have been touted as overpowered. I guess blasters or chargers are next?

My point is that all weapons have strengths but they all have weaknesses. If you are having trouble with rollers, use the .96 and laugh as they splat from a distance in two hits. Use echolocator to find the sneaky ones hiding in ink.

The only thing I fear less than a roller is the paintbrush.

 

[Windom Earle]

Kinda confused at this question. The original post makes sense.

Why would it make sense to team up with friends and gain an unfair advantage in a ranked match this way? Also boosting.

The kraken needs an attack because otherwise it would only be an escape card.

How would you change the kraken?

What's wrong with the bubble and what would you change?

What's wrong with the dynamo and what would you change?

Kraken is very easy. Take away the kill ability, increase speed so you can escape. So it is still a jail out of free card for rollers, but removes the broken part.

Just think about this, in the current form you have:

- Ink a shit-ton of ground which can turn matches around regularly
- Kill button
- Escape a tricky situation for free

I also don't agree that you can always easily outrun the kraken, in many critical situations there is simply not enough space. Sometimes it works, often it does not. Go to the port and fight 3 rollers paired with a charger. Tell me if it is balanced or not.

Personally I think the bubbler is broken in a similar way because in most situations it results in a free escape and possibly a kill. But it is less broken than the Kraken.

As for the Dynamo Roller... I think I am indeed not familiar enough with the weapon to give it final judgement, but it seems broken to me for example in the mall due to the elevation levels throughout the map. That shit can be spammed all day without penalties and there is almost nothing you can do to not die, unless maybe using a charger or a squelcher (Splattershot Pro main here). I frankly would not know how to nerf the Dynamo properly though.


Overall I think the game is well balanced though, Nintendo did a great job.

If you're going to consider the nerf to these weapons (and skill), you need to consider the drawbacks of each of them.

Kraken can easily be outran, and if you bait them into chasing you until their kraken ability runs out, there's not much they can do. So if you don't want it to 1 shot you, do you want it to be able to out swim regular squids?

Bubble takes a lot of knock back from shots and can easily be pushed into a corner until their duration runs out. If you want to nerf its duration, would you want it to take no knock backs from shots? Up close, the weapon is strong but it lacks range so you can easily keep it at bay.

Dynamo roller is considered to be overpowered by many, but of those people who thinks it's overpowered don't understand how long it takes for it to actually swing the weapon. If it had a short range, what would be the point in using it if the range isn't there? You could say speed up the animation and lower the range, but what would be the difference between the rollers available compared to the nerf rollers?

I don't believe any weapon is overpowered because they all have weaknesses. Many weapons can counter other weapons; aerospray or any fast gun can kill the dynamo roller before it can finish the fling animation, blasters/chargers can take out rollers, long range weapons can take out aerospray/short range weapons, and plenty more examples. If they nerf a weapon, it can easily throw off the balance of the game.

I think what you consider overpower (or too strong) is due to the lack of familiarity of said weapons. If you truly think it's too strong, I suggest playing with those weapons and you'll learn the weaknesses better and come up with ways to beat them.

I would like to also find friends on ranked and play against other pre made teams on ranked, but that's just me.


Haha I was kidding. That room was really laggy with all those japanese players anyways. I think your connection is fine, it's probably the host of the room was too laggy for everyone.

I am not requesting huge nerfs, just balancing. A normal procedure for an mp game. And I think it will happen eventually.

 

[Afrocious]

mfw getting killed by a lagging roller:

 

[RedFyn]

Never played any game with matchmaking that did that. Or ever heard of such a thing.


So? Sounds like a handicap to have a low level player in a team against an opposing team of balanced level players.

It's the opposite. A high level player joins a low level players game. Imagine an A+ player joining their C+ friend.

And in your situation it's unfair to the other people on your team. You have your C+ friend join your match of A+ players and whoever's team he's on is at a disadvantage.

 

[Vylash]

Why would you be able to pair with friends in a ranked match?

friends that are around the same rank as you

 

[Afrocious]

It's the opposite. A high level player joins a low level players game. Imagine an A+ player joining their C+ friend.

And in your situation it's unfair to the other people on your team. You have your C+ friend join your match of A+ players and whoever's team he's on is at a disadvantage.

Considering parties are going to be a thing for Splatoon, I wonder how that'll be handled. If a high ranked person was in a low ranked team, then perhaps the win amount should be reduced in that case.

I'm picturing a party scenario, not something similar to how a friend can join in on someone's Regular Game sessions.

 

[Heng]

Kraken is very easy. Take away the kill ability, increase speed so you can escape. So it is still a jail out of free card for rollers, but removes the broken part.

Just think about this, in the current form you have:

- Ink a shit-ton of ground which can turn matches around regularly
- Kill button
- Escape a tricky situation for free

I also don't agree that you can always easily outrun the kraken, in many critical situations there is simply not enough space. Sometimes it works, often it does not. Go to the port and fight 3 rollers paired with a charger. Tell me if it is balanced or not.

Personally I think the bubbler is broken in a similar way because in most situations it results in a free escape and possibly a kill. But it is less broken than the Kraken.

As for the Dynamo Roller... I think I am indeed not familiar enough with the weapon to give it final judgement, but it seems broken to me for example in the mall due to the elevation levels throughout the map. That shit can be spammed all day without penalties and there is almost nothing you can do to not die, unless maybe using a charger or a squelcher (Splattershot Pro main here). I frankly would not know how to nerf the Dynamo properly though.


Overall I think the game is well balanced though, Nintendo did a great job.

The kraken is easily outran, and you can easily hide from it as well if you have ninja squid. It's not a guarantee kill unless your opponent is close to you and cannot act fast enough (why are you this close to the roller in the first place? I know they can sneak up on you but that would be your fault for standing too close to the enemy ink).

As for the 3 rollers on port, sure I'll take them on, but give me 3 competent chargers since you're putting me against 3 krakon. That issue comes from team balance, not weapon balance.

It's not a 100% kill, I don't know what lead you to this theory. Maybe if they catch you trying to shoot your weapon or if they catch you over extending. The situation you describe about not being able to run away seems like it's the fault of the user to try to advance in an unsafe area and getting caught for it. One way to get past this is shoot before getting near enemy ink or wait for your team to back you up. You can't blindly charge into an area and not expect to get killed for it.

Bubble is so easy to beat, I just run away until it runs out. Yes, you can activate it in the middle of a fire fight, but that's the consequence for trying to fight someone with their special up. If you look closely, you can see their hair get highlighted when their special is activated and their hair also start to bubble at the crown. Usually before I engage in a fight, I always check if they have their special before trying to kill them unless I know I can kill them before they have the chance to activate it.

A tip against rollers on high perches: stand directly under them or as close as you can if they aren't strafing on grates. They can't hit directly beneath them, so just run under them and toss a bomb. That'll force them to run or if you catch them while they are swinging, then you got yourself a free kill.

I highly suggest playing the weapons you have trouble killing, that will help you more than you think. Also, there are weapons that your main weapon cannot beat at equal skilled players. That's due to weapon counter which is part of the balance of the game.

 

[Totakeke]

Considering parties are going to be a thing for Splatoon, I wonder how that'll be handled. If a high ranked person was in a low ranked team, then perhaps the win amount should be reduced in that case.

I'm picturing a party scenario, not something similar to how a friend can join in on someone's Regular Game sessions.

There'll be no ranked play for premade teams or there will be a separate ranking system (my bet is on the former). Allowing premade teams to influence randomized team ranks doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Geg]

Just a normal splat zones mode without the rankings involved would be nice too

 

[Windom Earle]

The kraken is easily outran, and you can easily hide from it as well if you have ninja squid. It's not a guarantee kill unless your opponent is close to you and cannot act fast enough (why are you this close to the roller in the first place? I know they can sneak up on you but that would be your fault for standing too close to the enemy ink).

As for the 3 rollers on port, sure I'll take them on, but give me 3 competent chargers since you're putting me against 3 krakon. That issue comes from team balance, not weapon balance.

It's not a 100% kill, I don't know what lead you to this theory. Maybe if they catch you trying to shoot your weapon or if they catch you over extending. The situation you describe about not being able to run away seems like it's the fault of the user to try to advance in an unsafe area and getting caught for it. One way to get past this is shoot before getting near enemy ink or wait for your team to back you up. You can't blindly charge into an area and not expect to get killed for it.

Bubble is so easy to beat, I just run away until it runs out. Yes, you can activate it in the middle of a fire fight, but that's the consequence for trying to fight someone with their special up. If you look closely, you can see their hair get highlighted when their special is activated and their hair also start to bubble at the crown. Usually before I engage in a fight, I always check if they have their special before trying to kill them unless I know I can kill them before they have the chance to activate it.

A tip against rollers on high perches: stand directly under them or as close as you can if they aren't strafing on grates. They can't hit directly beneath them, so just run under them and toss a bomb. That'll force them to run or if you catch them while they are swinging, then you got yourself a free kill.

I highly suggest playing the weapons you have trouble killing, that will help you more than you think. Also, there are weapons that your main weapon cannot beat at equal skilled players. That's due to weapon counter which is part of the balance of the game.

My point is not that there is the ability to outrun Kraken or hide from it. Sure, it is possible, but in many situations it will not work. The ability is simply too "clutch" that it can turn matches in many situations. Sure, in an ideal world with perfecly coordinated teams this would not be much of an issue. But the game is designed to be played with randoms, so this ability paired with the strong rollers (who are still strong enough when using the nerf I suggested) is simply too much. It is "zero risk" paired with "high reward". The definition of bullshit in my book. It's like the Evelyn in Bloodborne in case you are familiar with that game.

Agreed on Splattershot JR I guess, it is far more fair, but still a tiny bit too good in my book. I would decrease the duration a bit more.

 

[Totakeke]

Just a normal splat zones mode without the rankings involved would be nice too

I think that's definitely what they're referring to when they say you can have custom rules in premade teams. Honestly I wouldn't mind still having a random map rotation still even with premade teams, otherwise some maps just wouldn't be played.

My point is not that there is the ability to outrun Kraken or hide from it. Sure, it is possible, but in many situations it will not work. The ability is simply too "clutch" that it can turn matches in many situations. Sure, in an ideal world with perfecly coordinated teams this would not be much of an issue. But the game is designed to be played with randoms, so this ability paired with the strong rollers (who are still strong enough when using the nerf I suggested) is simply too much. It is "zero risk" paired with "high reward". The definition of bullshit in my book. It's like the Evelyn in Bloodborne in case you are familiar with that game.

Agreed on Splattershot JR I guess, it is far more fair, but still a tiny bit too good in my book. I would decrease the duration a bit more.

It doesn't take much coordination to deal with a Kraken. After a while it'll be just another special that perhaps even seems lackluster. If you're team is clustered together there's plenty more ways to better defeat your team than a Kraken.

 

[CoconutTank]

Kraken is very easy. Take away the kill ability, increase speed so you can escape. So it is still a jail out of free card for rollers, but removes the broken part.

Just think about this, in the current form you have:

- Ink a shit-ton of ground which can turn matches around regularly
- Kill button
- Escape a tricky situation for free

I also don't agree that you can always easily outrun the kraken, in many critical situations there is simply not enough space. Sometimes it works, often it does not. Go to the port and fight 3 rollers paired with a charger. Tell me if it is balanced or not.

Personally I think the bubbler is broken in a similar way because in most situations it results in a free escape and possibly a kill. But it is less broken than the Kraken.

As for the Dynamo Roller... I think I am indeed not familiar enough with the weapon to give it final judgement, but it seems broken to me for example in the mall due to the elevation levels throughout the map. That shit can be spammed all day without penalties and there is almost nothing you can do to not die, unless maybe using a charger or a squelcher (Splattershot Pro main here). I frankly would not know how to nerf the Dynamo properly though.


Overall I think the game is well balanced though, Nintendo did a great job.



I am not requesting huge nerfs, just balancing. A normal procedure for an mp game. And I think it will happen eventually.

The Kraken actually doesn't ink that much ground, its width is about the same size as a Seeker or the Ink Brush, which really isn't a lot. It also doesn't last that long unless you invest a bunch of Special Time ups into it. Changing Kraken so that it just inks and doesn't threaten anyone kind of sucks.

I find Inkzooka to be way more dangerous than Kraken; it covers a super long range, instantly kills, can also ink lots of territory, and also has no warning.

If this is mostly about the Krak-On Roller, you probably didn't want to fight the roller at such a close range anyway, because otherwise the roller could just slam your face. If this is about the Custom Jet Squelcher, then I don't know what to say because I've literally never seen anyone use it (and now I'm tempted to try it, hmm...).

I don't think a Charger and 3 Krak-On Rollers on Port is too scary. Depends on what weapons my team has available, but ranged attacks or offensive sub weapons would be highly discouraging for the Krak-On Rollers, and the Charger can only cover 1 lane at a time. Until they get Kraken, what should the Krak-On Rollers do about Seekers, or Splash Walls, or the other throwables that do damage? Man even Disruptors would force them into a do-or-die situation, pop that Kraken or be an easy kill.

I think generally as long as you make sure you don't get yourself cornered and have a lot of ink behind you, just swimming back and getting evasive when a Kraken shows up will keep you out of harms way.

Mostly the same deal for Splattershot Jr. It's a very forgiving weapon, but it gets out-zoned very easily by enemies that aim properly. If I go up against competent enemies using Gals, Blasters or Chargers without the Bubbler, then I get into big trouble the moment I stick my head up, and I can't throw Splat Bombs for that long. If I engage with Bubbler, then I can usually take one enemy out if I take away their attention for long enough, but only being able to fight when my special is available is rather horrendous. Like what should I do when I pop Bubbler right in someone's face but they run off? When they come back and Bubbler runs out then I might not have been able to improve my situation by much.

 

[RedFyn]

Why would it make sense to team up with friends and gain an unfair advantage in a ranked match this way? Also boosting.



Kraken is very easy. Take away the kill ability, increase speed so you can escape. So it is still a jail out of free card for rollers, but removes the broken part.

Just think about this, in the current form you have:

- Ink a shit-ton of ground which can turn matches around regularly
- Kill button
- Escape a tricky situation for free

I also don't agree that you can always easily outrun the kraken, in many critical situations there is simply not enough space. Sometimes it works, often it does not. Go to the port and fight 3 rollers paired with a charger. Tell me if it is balanced or not.

Personally I think the bubbler is broken in a similar way because in most situations it results in a free escape and possibly a kill. But it is less broken than the Kraken.

As for the Dynamo Roller... I think I am indeed not familiar enough with the weapon to give it final judgement, but it seems broken to me for example in the mall due to the elevation levels throughout the map. That shit can be spammed all day without penalties and there is almost nothing you can do to not die, unless maybe using a charger or a squelcher (Splattershot Pro main here). I frankly would not know how to nerf the Dynamo properly though.


Overall I think the game is well balanced though, Nintendo did a great job.



I am not requesting huge nerfs, just balancing. A normal procedure for an mp game. And I think it will happen eventually.

You're overrating the krakens ink output. If it didn't have an attack you could easily follow it covering the trail. It would also be the only special that removes your ability to kill people while it's active. You're correct that you can't always avoid the kraken but that goes for all of the others. Sometimes you can't avoid the wail, the ink strike or the inkzooka.

Heng posted the main disadvantages of the bubble I'd just add that it's possible to run away from and it can put the user in a bad spot as it's easy to push too far forward while it's active.

Again heng covered it well but basically the dynamo is powerful but similar to chargers, it struggles in cqc and has a long delay in between attacks and unlike chargers it's attack can't be interrupted.(I think, someone correct me if I'm wrong here) It also suffers from the same issue the roller faces and that's the lack of quick paint placement. You can fire all around the roller and swim to the side or to the back. The dynamos range is long but its not wide.

Something else to consider is what these specials are on. The bubble is on short range weapons. Use your range and you'll be fine. If theyre close enough to kill you its probably your fault. The kraken is on a short range weapon and a long range weapon that suffers up close. The roller is countered by using your range to keep it at bay. You have plenty of time to see the kraken coming and get out of the way. The squelcher is countered by its need to keep its distance again allowing you to see the kraken coming.

Considering parties are going to be a thing for Splatoon, I wonder how that'll be handled. If a high ranked person was in a low ranked team, then perhaps the win amount should be reduced in that case.

I'm picturing a party scenario, not something similar to how a friend can join in on someone's Regular Game sessions.

Maybe I misread it but I believe that's what the discussion was about and its what I was referring to.

 

[Windom Earle]

I am not overestimating the Kraken's ink output, it is the combination of multiple factors paired with 0 risk/high reward that makes it unbalanced.

Too many roller scrubs on GAF.

edit: And to add on to that, I think you guys underestimate the importance of "not dying" in this game. Being killed by a roller is a huge punish as it means losing a ton of ground following up. Sure, the Kraken will not kill you in many situations, but if it does, it comes with a large penalty. How is this "earned"?

 

[Poimandres]

After spending a good few more hours playing multiplayer on the weekend, I think I'm getting a bit bored. I want more games modes and more maps.

 

[Gsnap]

I am not overestimating the Kraken's ink output, it is the combination of multiple factors paired with 0 risk/high reward that makes it unbalanced.

Too many roller scrubs on GAF.

Kraken's not unbalanced. Really easy to dodge or run away from. Doesn't spread that much ink. Easy to keep an eye on it and kill the person after they change back to normal.

No one should ever die to a kraken unless they unleash it right in front of you (and if you're running straight at a glowing roller you're asking for trouble), or you get caught on terrain while you're running away. But anyone with good map awareness and inking/swimming skills should be able to handle it. It's no more unbalanced than any other super. Which is to say it's not unbalanced at all.

 

[Jintor]

Anybody want to theorycraft what Splatoon would need for a decent competitive tourney setup? I think it has potential, but as it is now, I'm not sure how to run it. That includes not only rules, but also things like how to spectator it, how to set it up and get it going in a location and how to make it interesting to viewers.

Since it's all theorycrafting you may as well go hog wild and talk about what would need to be programmed in, so long as you think it's within the bounds of possibility. It probably won't go anywhere but it'll be interesting at least.

As a starting point, I'll say I think all the weapon sets are equally balanced. I'm leaning towards all weapons are legal, but do you think a pick/counterpick would be interesting as well?

 

[Windom Earle]

Kraken's not unbalanced. Really easy to dodge or run away from. Doesn't spread that much ink. Easy to keep an eye on it and kill the person after they change back to normal.

No one should ever die to a kraken unless they unleash it right in front of you (and if you're running straight at a glowing roller you're asking for trouble), or you get caught on terrain while you're running away. But anyone with good map awareness and inking/swimming skills should be able to handle it. It's no more unbalanced than any other super. Which is to say it's not unbalanced at all.

Bullshit, you will not be able to escape it in all situations. And that is not even the point, but maybe you should read my other posts.

 

[HammerFace]

Bullshit, you will not be able to escape it in all situations. And that is not even the point, but maybe you should read my other posts.

He literally said unless you get stuck on terrain or if they unleash it in front of you. Or if you don't know the map well.

 

[Heng]

My point is not that there is the ability to outrun Kraken or hide from it. Sure, it is possible, but in many situations it will not work. The ability is simply too "clutch" that it can turn matches in many situations. Sure, in an ideal world with perfecly coordinated teams this would not be much of an issue. But the game is designed to be played with randoms, so this ability paired with the strong rollers (who are still strong enough when using the nerf I suggested) is simply too much. It is "zero risk" paired with "high reward". The definition of bullshit in my book. It's like the Evelyn in Bloodborne in case you are familiar with that game.

Agreed on Splattershot JR I guess, it is far more fair, but still a tiny bit too good in my book. I would decrease the duration a bit more.

I see your point. One thing that comes to my mind is that it also applies to many special. With the inkzooka, there's almost nothing I can do once I realize they have it. Same with bubble, bomb rush (all types), and kraken.

If you take away their ability to kill and only allow them to run away, I cannot see anyone who would want to use it. Yeah in randoms you can take out a whole squad with the kraken if they're not paying attention, but I don't think nerfing an ability for the sake of random players who aren't paying attention is a good idea. I know being in the situation you describe will happen to you no matter how hard you try to avoid it. When I'm in that situation, the roller will always decide to kill me with his roller instead of the kraken.

I see a lot of people miss their targets with kraken and it might be due to playing in high ranked battles. It's usually reserved to either get away, get kills on unsuspecting targets, or if someone decides to sneak up on you and activated in clutch moments.

I don't understand what you mean by zero risk. Isn't the Ink strike zero risk? And echo locator, as well as bubble (if you're using it to run away), and inkzooka? If it only inked the ground with invincibility to run away, I would say it's a pathetic special because rolling covers more areas than kraken. Yeah I can see it being invincible still being a great feature, but I would say swimming away would almost achieve the same effect.

If you still have the same opinion, I don't know if I can persuade you to think differently. My tip to you is try the class out instead of using your main weapon if you want to learn to counter it.

 

[Windom Earle]

He literally said unless you get stuck on terrain or if they unleash it in front of you. Or if you don't know the map will.

Which is wrong. You don't always have a choice to "wait it out".

I see your point. One thing that comes to my mind is that it also applies to many special. With the inkzooka, there's almost nothing I can do once I realize they have it. Same with bubble, bomb rush (all types), and kraken.

If you take away their ability to kill and only allow them to run away, I cannot see anyone who would want to use it. Yeah in randoms you can take out a whole squad with the kraken if they're not paying attention, but I don't think nerfing an ability for the sake of random players who aren't paying attention is a good idea. I know being in the situation you describe will happen to you no matter how hard you try to avoid it. When I'm in that situation, the roller will always decide to kill me with his roller instead of the kraken.

I see a lot of people miss their targets with kraken and it might be due to playing in high ranked battles. It's usually reserved to either get away, get kills on unsuspecting targets, or if someone decides to sneak up on you and activated in clutch moments.

I don't understand what you mean by zero risk. Isn't the Ink strike zero risk? And echo locator, as well as bubble (if you're using it to run away), and inkzooka? If it only inked the ground with invincibility to run away, I would say it's a pathetic special because rolling covers more areas than kraken. Yeah I can see it being invincible still being a great feature, but I would say swimming away would almost achieve the same effect.

If you still have the same opinion, I don't know if I can persuade you to think differently. My tip to you is try the class out instead of using your main weapon if you want to learn to counter it.

Fair enough. Concerning the ink strike, it is easier to see it coming, it can also be outrun, and I am vulnerable while activating. Different story.

 

[Gsnap]

Bullshit, you will not be able to escape it in all situations. And that is not even the point, but maybe you should read my other posts.

Of course not all situations. Didn't say all situations. It's just that in many situations it's pretty easy to run away from it. I can't even count the number of times I've juked a kraken. Go into the ink, swim either right or left, and then make a little loop to get behind it. Then it will either lose track of you and chase someone else, or it will keep chasing you in which case you just run away. If it does focus on someone else, then you ink up the little amount of ink that it put down. Swimming away from it just... isn't difficult. Squid form is just as fast if not faster. Then just keep an eye on it and kill it after it changes back. Or ignore it and go to some other part of the map.

The kill jump is the only thing that makes the kraken worthwhile and it certainly doesn't make it overpowered.

 

[Jintor]

Which is wrong. You don't always have a choice to "wait it out".

nor do you always ahve the chance to avoid an inkstrike, or see an inkzooker shot coming. I don't see the difference. If you maintain map awareness and careful positioning (and most importantly don't bumrush a kraken roller or a squelcher), a kraken is no problem.

Besides, the kraken is zero risk while it is in play (though if you're smart and the kraken is dumb you can bait them through a grate), but kraken users frequently over-extend while in kraken form and end up stranded in enemy ink where they are easy pickings.

 

[CoconutTank]

I am not overestimating the Kraken's ink output, it is the combination of multiple factors paired with 0 risk/high reward that makes it unbalanced.

Too many roller scrubs on GAF.

edit: And to add on to that, I think you guys underestimate the importance of "not dying" in this game. Being killed by a roller is a huge punish as it means losing a ton of ground following up. Sure, the Kraken will not kill you in many situations, but if it does, it comes with a large penalty. How is this "earned"?

T_T

Kraken itself is all upside, yes, but Krak-On Rollers don't start with their special charged, and their only ranged attack is the ink flick. That's it. Until they get Kraken, Krak-On Rollers are in a fairly risky position against ranged attackers. Trap them or pressure them with your main weapon and your sub weapon, because really what are they going to do?

I don't know anything about the Custom Jet Squelcher, but I suspect there's a reason why I haven't seen anyone use it online.

As for your edit, no I'm pretty sure that not dying is a pretty big deal. I don't think anyone's said otherwise either. I would say Krak-On Rollers earned their reward by being able to get close enough to you to do a barrel roll. What would you say about getting killed by Suction Bombs or Killer Wail via regular Splat Roller? Would those be more "earned" compared to getting kills via Kraken?

Do you have the Krak-On Roller unlocked? If so, give it a try!

 

[Xeteh]

I am not overestimating the Kraken's ink output, it is the combination of multiple factors paired with 0 risk/high reward that makes it unbalanced.

Too many roller scrubs on GAF.

edit: And to add on to that, I think you guys underestimate the importance of "not dying" in this game. Being killed by a roller is a huge punish as it means losing a ton of ground following up. Sure, the Kraken will not kill you in many situations, but if it does, it comes with a large penalty. How is this "earned"?

Go ahead and run with the Krak-on Roller for a day and the other weapons you think are overpowered.

The Kraken is such a joke to dodge and avoid and if the player decides to chase you (which is the wrong choice) instead of using the Kraken to put himself in to a better position to take a ton of your turf then you get to avoid him for a few seconds and kill him once its done. The only time Kraken should kill you is if:

1. You fuck up.
2. You don't see it coming from behind/around a corner.
3. The person is lagging and kills you.

If you're having that much trouble with it, use it. You'll see it isn't perfect.

As for the Bubble, yeah its strong but really the only gun that has it that gets used is the Splattershot Jr. I can say as someone who used it a ton that its strong but it has weaknesses. For one thing the range on the Jr is rather short. If you have a gun with longer range and a decent firing rate you can unload on the Bubble and it will just push them back where they can't touch you. If not, run. If they get you, oh well you'll be back up in a few... if they miss a couple shots you can escape because the Jr doesn't have much power.

Dynamo Rollers... same answer as the Krak-On. Use it. Then come back and complain about it. I promise you that you'll be garbage with it for a long while before you get the hang of that weapon.

 

[Jintor]

imho i can tell splatoon is (more) balanced (than most games) because no matter what weapon I run I always think every other weapon is OP

 

[Windom Earle]

nor do you always ahve the chance to avoid an inkstrike, or see an inkzooker shot coming. I don't see the difference. If you maintain map awareness and careful positioning (and most importantly don't bumrush a kraken roller or a squelcher), a kraken is no problem.

Besides, the kraken is zero risk while it is in play (though if you're smart and the kraken is dumb you can bait them through a grate), but kraken users frequently over-extend while in kraken form and end up stranded in enemy ink where they are easy pickings.

People can still be killed while using Inkzooka and it has shitty coverage. Ink strike is more predictable, the rocket can be seen and even when missing that you still have the chance to swim away. Ink strike activator is vulnerable while doing it.

There is no special ability in the game that is as mindless as the kraken. No map awareness or positioning will make up for that. Sometimes you HAVE to engage the roller.

Anyway, I think this is with this discussion for me, I thought GAF would be smarter about this game...

 

[Zemm]

Laggy rollers are the biggest pieces of garbage in this game. Got stuck on a team of 3 rollers, which is already not an ideal situation, but then the other team's roller was lagging by 1-2 full seconds. Literally every single encounter, I splatted her and then waited for my own doom. I wasn't even surprised when it happened anymore. It's just, like, I'm already dead.

What's the best weapon in this game?

A Japanese guy on ADSL waving a roller about.

 

[RedFyn]

I am not overestimating the Kraken's ink output, it is the combination of multiple factors paired with 0 risk/high reward that makes it unbalanced.

Too many roller scrubs on GAF.

edit: And to add on to that, I think you guys underestimate the importance of "not dying" in this game. Being killed by a roller is a huge punish as it means losing a ton of ground following up. Sure, the Kraken will not kill you in many situations, but if it does, it comes with a large penalty. How is this "earned"?

There are a lit of roller scrubs in GAF. What dies that have to do with this?

I don't use the roller in ranked because I understand its weaknesses and require a gun that fits the game mode. I've played vs all/primarily kraken teams. The last one I played was 3 krakens and a good charger. Its not that hard to beat them if you know how.

You are overestimating the ink output if you think its anything other than a very small factor. The risk in using the kraken is that you have to run back to your area or you'll be caught out in the middle of the enemies ink with a weapon that doesn't allow a quick escape. Its a 0 risk/potentially low reward or a high risk/potentially high reward special.

Your last sentence is confusing. If you get a kill you earn the chance to cover the ground. If you die they earn that chance. Why are you confused about this?

How much experience do you have with the roller btw?


Edit: Oh never mind. I read your last comment. Seems you aren't actually interested in learning.

After spending a good few more hours playing multiplayer on the weekend, I think I'm getting a bit bored. I want more games modes and more maps.

Have you tried using a different weapon? Thats the games biggest form of diversity that is usually overlooked. New maps are great but if you switch to a different weapon that forces you to change things up the old maps can become a little fresher.

 

[Xeteh]

Anyway, I think this is with this discussion for me, I thought GAF would be smarter about this game...

Your condescending remarks and absolutely zero willingness to budge kind of make your arguments so much stronger.

 

[HammerFace]

Which is wrong. You don't always have a choice to "wait it out".

I know. And so does he. That's why he gave a few situations in which you can't wait it out. But it's not entirely difficult to avoid. I just did it several times an hour ago.

 

[Pineconn]

Today I learned that you can fall out of bounds in Walleye Warehouse.

sigh

 

[Heng]

Anybody want to theorycraft what Splatoon would need for a decent competitive tourney setup? I think it has potential, but as it is now, I'm not sure how to run it. That includes not only rules, but also things like how to spectator it, how to set it up and get it going in a location and how to make it interesting to viewers.

Since it's all theorycrafting you may as well go hog wild and talk about what would need to be programmed in, so long as you think it's within the bounds of possibility. It probably won't go anywhere but it'll be interesting at least.

As a starting point, I'll say I think all the weapon sets are equally balanced. I'm leaning towards all weapons are legal, but do you think a pick/counterpick would be interesting as well?

I would love to see this go full competitive mode. But at its current state, I don't think you can achieve that. In order to set this up, you would need 8 tvs, and 8 wii u. That would be the bare minimum, imagine how long it will take if 20 teams enter the tournament.

Another problem with Splatoon in its current state is the inability to form a pre made room with pre made teams. Imagine trying to get all 8 wii u in the same room (not that hard tbh) and then have them all on the correct team. I think once the ability to make rooms is available, it can become big if the community is there.

If we could ask them to program something in that has not been announced, I would say spectator mode. In the Nintendo world championship, they had to switch screens to see all the action. Hopefully they realize that they can help tournaments grow and they will support it. Also voice chat with friends (I don't care about randoms, I fear I might be too much of a jerk to a kid trying to have fun). Maybe that's why that feature has been delayed? Who knows.

I like the idea of counter picking for the losing team. Weapons clearly have weaknesses and having the ability to adjust your strategy will keep things interesting.

 

[Windom Earle]

Your condescending remarks and absolutely zero willingness to budge kind of make your arguments so much stronger.

I have seen zero arguments on why a zero risk/high reward concept (especially compared to all other special weapons) is balanced, so why would I budge?

Sorry if I come across condecending, but it is annoying to reply to a myriad of posts missing my point.

 

[Rize_21]

Finger crossed that the carbon roller comes with a seeker as sub weapon, bubble for special, spread like a dynamo, attack and roll like a normal roller.Seems fair to me.

 

[Geg]

Kraken is really hard to get away from if you're in a constricted map without much area to run to, like Saltspray Rig. Today someone went Kraken right in front of me and the only place I had to run to were the walkways in the center part of the stage, and those were partially covered in enemy ink. I couldn't cover those and swim quickly enough to escape. There really are some points where kraken is just inescapable death.

 

[Afrocious]

Krak-on Rollers don't bother me much. I'm a pretty careful person so I tend to always premtively get away from them.

 

[RedFyn]

I have seen zero arguments on why a zero risk/high reward concept (especially compared to all other special weapons) is balanced, so why would I budge?

Sorry if I come across condecending, but it is annoying to reply to a myriad of posts missing my point.

Read my last post. Its not a zero risk/high reward special.

We are also not missing your point. We just realize that your point is incorrect and are trying to tell you why.

Kraken is really hard to get away from if you're in a constricted map without much area to run to, like Saltspray Rig. Today someone went Kraken right in front of me and the only place I had to run to were the walkways in the center part of the stage, and those were partially covered in enemy ink. I couldn't cover those and swim quickly enough to escape. There really are some points where kraken is just inescapable death.

What weapon were you using? Why were they able to get right in front of you in the first place. Assuming you were using a ranged weapon you should be able to keep them at a distance. Krakens rely on an already advantageous position to be powerful.

 

[Xeteh]

I have seen zero arguments on why a zero risk/high reward concept (especially compared to all other special weapons) is balanced, so why would I budge?

Sorry if I come across condecending, but it is annoying to reply to a myriad of posts missing my point.

You've had plenty of arguments as to why it is balanced. You just choose to ignore them and claim otherwise. You didn't come here to convinced they're balanced. You came here to complain and you're surprised no one agrees.

 

[Gsnap]

People can still be killed while using Inkzooka and it has shitty coverage. Ink strike is more predictable, the rocket can be seen and even when missing that you still have the chance to swim away. Ink strike activator is vulnerable while doing it.

There is no special ability in the game that is as mindless as the kraken. No map awareness or positioning will make up for that. Sometimes you HAVE to engage the roller.

Anyway, I think this is with this discussion for me, I thought GAF would be smarter about this game...

lol. "smarter about this game" ok, buddy.

Yes, sometimes you have to engage the roller. Sometimes you have to do a lot of stuff you don't want to do. You roll with the punches.

Fact of the matter is, if the kraken was so OP, we wouldn't be able to dodge it so often, and the players using it would top the charts far more than they do.

As it is right now, nothing in the game is overpowered. Everything has weaknesses, and nothing shuts out everything else.

 

[GWX]

Kraken is really hard to get away from if you're in a constricted map without much area to run to, like Saltspray Rig. Today someone went Kraken right in front of me and the only place I had to run to were the walkways in the center part of the stage, and those were partially covered in enemy ink. I couldn't cover those and swim quickly enough to escape. There really are some points where kraken is just inescapable death.

It's something I'd probably never do in the heat of the game (and I don't Krakens are that big of a threat), but... can't you just squid jump out to safety? It's faster than waiting to respawn after being splatted.

 

[Jintor]

I have seen zero arguments on why a zero risk/high reward concept (especially compared to all other special weapons) is balanced, so why would I budge?

Sorry if I come across condecending, but it is annoying to reply to a myriad of posts missing my point.

you just keep repeating zero risk/high reward and then proclaiming how right you are. Let's take a closer look.

here's the kraken. It's invincible and you kill with a jump and you can move anywhere leaving a thin ink trail. you have to activate it before you die, and you can die in anywhere from 2-5 shots in this game. you have to steer it, it's not an autopilot. It moves at the same speed as squid form so you can get away from it in most situations. It has to be steered to you so you can hide from it fairly easily. It is pushed back by fire (you can stop it with a splash wall for instance). it ends in less than ten seconds or so. it falls through grates. you have to be in a good position when it ends or die.

It's hardly zero risk/high reward. It's good, sure, but it's limited to a certain subset of weapons which is arguably harder to gain special for than other classes, paired with non-destructive sidearms, and you have a bunch of people telling you how simple they find to avoid it for the most part. I don't see zero risk/high reward.

 

[Windom Earle]

Could the Kraken apologists explain to me why it needs the ability to kill? Why not just give it faster speed, so the roller user has his free "get out of jail" paired with coverage?

 

[RedFyn]

Could the Kraken apologists explain to me why it needs the ability to kill? Why not just give it faster speed, so the roller user has his free "get out of jail"?

Because it would then be underpowered and I don't want to see anything be underpowered.

Instead of saying lol, you should successfully make the case for why its overpowered. Something you have failed to do thus far.

 

[Heng]

Could the Kraken apologists explain to me why it needs the ability to kill? Why not just give it faster speed, so the roller user has his free "get out of jail" paired with coverage?

Probably because the designers want people to actually use the krak-on roller.

 

[Windom Earle]

Underpowered? :lol

 

[Jintor]

Could the Kraken apologists explain to me why it needs the ability to kill? Why not just give it faster speed, so the roller user has his free "get out of jail" paired with coverage?

because it's an offensive special and the coverage is shit. The coverage is about equivalent to becoming an invincible ink-brusher for 10 seconds, which is rubbish.

 

[CoconutTank]

Could the Kraken apologists explain to me why it needs the ability to kill? Why not just give it faster speed, so the roller user has his free "get out of jail"?

Because without the ability to kill it's a really shitty and non-threatening special that doesn't help the rest of your team.

 

[Windom Earle]

because it's an offensive special and the coverage is shit. The coverage is about equivalent to becoming an invincible ink-brusher for 10 seconds, which is rubbish.

Fine, then increase the coverage too. Roller would still be good enough!

 

[Xeteh]

Could the Kraken apologists explain to me why it needs the ability to kill? Why not just give it faster speed, so the roller user has his free "get out of jail" paired with coverage?

It barely moves faster than you do in Squid form. It wouldn't be much of an escape if it ended while you were unable to clear out someone when they could just follow you until you change back and punish you for not having range to do anything.