SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO

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TheBoss1 said:
Quote for new page lol

All jokes aside, I hate how people say she's objectified when Raiden was completely naked in MGS2 but you won't hear anyone complaining about it because he's a male.
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That's one of the worst arguments I've ever heard. Raiden's not randomly doing stretches on a bench, turning around to show his butt while looking out a window, taking off more clothes to writhe seductively in the rain, etc, etc.

Raiden's nudity is played for laughs: it's a negative. Quiet's nudity is played up for sex appeal. It's a "positive". It happens more as you rank up your bond with her.
 
TheBoss1 said:
Quote for new page lol

All jokes aside, I hate how people say she's objectified when Raiden was completely naked in MGS2 but you won't hear anyone complaining about it because he's a male.
Click to expand...
Man, I loved those moments in MGS2 when Raiden's sweet b-hole were a foot away from the camera's perspective.
 
TheBoss1 said:
Quote for new page lol

All jokes aside, I hate how people say she's objectified when Raiden was completely naked in MGS2 but you won't hear anyone complaining about it because he's a male.
Click to expand...
Quiet doesn't talk and the camera ALWAYS looks at her butt and boobs. She does sexy poses in the helicopter every time. Raiden was naked for fifteen minutes and never got close to the amount of gaze from the camera angles.

EDIT: If Raiden walked with sexy machismo and an throbbing cock, I can maybe see the two be similar
 
TheBoss1 said:
Quote for new page lol

All jokes aside, I hate how people say she's objectified when Raiden was completely naked in MGS2 but you won't hear anyone complaining about it because he's a male.
Click to expand...
MGS2 wasn't constantly zooming in on Raiden's private parts. The camera can't stop looking at Quiet's tits and ass in MGSV. I don't really see how this is up for debate.

Look up, like, any of the cutscenes. There'll be tracking shots from head to toe where the camera pauses on her breasts. When she's being tortured, the camera fixates on her glistening, veiny tits. When she emerges from the shed after killing the rapists, the camera focuses on her chest and then zooms out to view the rest of her, as though remembering, "Oh shit, she has a face."

Hell, there's even a scene in first-person where, for whatever reason, you're showering with her in her cell with an audience of bros whispering to each other, "Oh man, she's so haaaaaawt." This is when she's not sunbathing topless at night. And oh, who could forget her writhing around in a puddle? And how she shoves her tits and ass in your face in the ACC?

And I'll admit, I looked. She's an attractive bundle of polygons. (I actually think the face is the best part, a sort of girl-next-door quality, but I digress.) But it was all so heavy-handed that it just felt sleazy. It really undermined the character.
 
When dudes are naked in Metal Gear its dumb funny like Johnny with his pixelated ass in the air. Quiet however was showering with dudes calling her "a naughty girl" and grunting "awww yeah".
 
Plus, if fan art is anything to go by the lust for characters, BB Kaz and Ocelot in a manly fuckfest are a lot more popular than Raiden ever was.
 
TheBoss1 said:
Quote for new page lol

All jokes aside, I hate how people say she's objectified when Raiden was completely naked in MGS2 but you won't hear anyone complaining about it because he's a male.
Click to expand...
Raiden's taint wasn't in my face for more than a milli second.
 
Imm0rt4l said:
I don't really understand the point of MB coins. Buy more FOBs? Why? I can get all I need with just the one.
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I guess just because someone may want faster research leveling, automatic mining, and resource processing, or they want a larger army to increase their PF Rank. And I guess it's probably cheaper in terms of fuel to get similar increases from two FOBs at 2/4 rather than one FOB at 4/4 because the last two upgrades are so much more expensive... But really, it's mostly just a matter of speed + higher PF ranking (which again really just rewards you resources, soldiers... which again is really just a matter of speed and efficiency).
 
Neiteio said:
I do think BB is kind of a dick for agreeing to sacrifice the entire hospital.
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Did he really agree? I assume, like Medic, he was essentially caught out. I'm sure he wouldn't want to sacrifice the hospital, but XOF & MOF came fast. Him just letting VS become fake BB is embarrassing though.

bananafactory said:
I know the scene I just don't get why it's always referenced. That line didn't stand out to me at all and in fact someone had to link me back to that scene for me to remember it. Was just curious why people seem to have latched on
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Yea, same here. The internet really needs their memes.
 
Solid has always been my favorite Snake, but I'm starting to hate him for killing Big Medic in Metal Gear. Big Medic was a true bro..."you're all diamonds".
 
TheBoss1 said:
Quote for new page lol

All jokes aside, I hate how people say she's objectified when Raiden was completely naked in MGS2 but you won't hear anyone complaining about it because he's a male.
Click to expand...

It's what you should expect when certain groups are beyond desperate to point fingers at patriarchal bogeymen and shriek sexism at the slightest provocation. Nothing that happens to Quiet is any different to Raiden or Snake - they're all designed to be subtly sexual, they're all occasionally captured and tortured, sometimes there's a few camera shots that focus on their anatomy.

Draw your own conclusions as to why it's only Quiet which is dragged out as some huge flaw in the game when every 'problematic' aspect of her character is more than equalled by the series' men.
 
Raiden has a huge penis. There is a MGS2 Easter Egg on it. You get caught after Olga releases you then you run back to pretend you were held on that platform. The soldier wishes he had "that".
 
DamonForever said:
Did he really agree? I assume, like Medic, he was essentially caught out. I'm sure he wouldn't want to sacrifice the hospital, but XOF & MOF came fast. Him just letting VS become fake BB is embarrassing though.
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BB is told the plan in the tape. He doesn't object to it or express any concern.

I think, for the moment, I'm going to interpret as his "Hiroshima" moment, where in BB's mind, sacrificing the hospital for the sake of Zanzibarland was "necessary."
 
Unknown One said:
Raiden has a huge penis. There is a MGS2 Easter Egg on it. You get caught after Olga releases you then you run back to pretend you were held on that platform. The soldier wishes he had "that".
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"Wish I had one of those"... It's been 12 years, and I'll never forget it.
 
Golnei said:
It's what you should expect when certain groups are beyond desperate to point fingers at patriarchal bogeymen and shriek sexism at the slightest provocation. Nothing that happens to Quiet is any different to Raiden or Snake - they're all designed to be subtly sexual, they're all occasionally captured and tortured, sometimes there's a few camera shots that focus on their anatomy.

Draw your own conclusions as to why it's only Quiet which is dragged out as some huge flaw in the game when every 'problematic' aspect of her character is more than equalled by the series' men.
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I saved every cutscene in this game using the PS4's share feature. Maybe after deadline I'll make a compilation of the many boob and ass shots of Quiet. I think your memory is glossing over, like, 80 percent of them. Because there are a lot, and I'd be interested to see any one male character in any one MGS game who equals Quiet in this regard.
 
Golnei said:
It's what you should expect when certain groups are beyond desperate to point fingers at patriarchal bogeymen and shriek sexism at the slightest provocation. Nothing that happens to Quiet is any different to Raiden or Snake - they're all designed to be subtly sexual, they're all occasionally captured and tortured, sometimes there's a few camera shots that focus on their anatomy.

Draw your own conclusions as to why it's only Quiet which is dragged out as some huge flaw in the game when every 'problematic' aspect of her character is more than equalled by the series' men.
Click to expand...

Neither Raiden nor Snake roll around in a puddle of rain in nothing but a bikini, and neither of them bend over like Quiet does while the camera zooms into her arsehole. It's not the same as previous games.
 
Are you guys even just forgetting the whole stuff with Kojima saying he wanted a character that could move figurines?

The intent is clear. The only male body part being blown up all over my screen was Kojima's boner. I get it buddy, you like boobs and butts.
 
Golnei said:
It's what you should expect when certain groups are beyond desperate to point fingers at patriarchal bogeymen and shriek sexism at the slightest provocation. Nothing that happens to Quiet is any different to Raiden or Snake - they're all designed to be subtly sexual, they're all occasionally captured and tortured, sometimes there's a few camera shots that focus on their anatomy.

Draw your own conclusions as to why it's only Quiet which is dragged out as some huge flaw in the game when every 'problematic' aspect of her character is more than equalled by the series' men.
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Wow.

Even *IF* Quiet's sexualization equaled Snake and Raiden's (which, it doesn't. There's nothing like the rain scene or the shower scene for either of those characters, and they still spend the majority of their screen time fully clothed and non-sexualized).

Sexualization of a woman is sexist in ways that sexualization of a man isn't. It's playing into long-held gender roles and stereotypes. Male sexualization isn't 'as bad' because men largely aren't treated as sex objects by society and thus there aren't any negative gender roles being reinforced by sexualizing a man. It's a similar reason as to why "cracker" isn't seen to be as racist a slur as the n word.
 
TheBoss1 said:
Quote for new page lol

All jokes aside, I hate how people say she's objectified when Raiden was completely naked in MGS2 but you won't hear anyone complaining about it because he's a male.
Click to expand...

One seems reasonable, the other seems like a contrivance. Raiden is naked cause he's been stripped bare to be tortured. His clothes and gear are kept elsewhere. Quiet is near naked because she has to breath through her skin because only her lungs got burned up after getting her shit wrecked by Big Boss, but still retains supermodel good looks on the exterior? It also helps that Raiden was written to be more than eye candy. Quiet conveniently has excuses to be both bikini clad and completely silent. Oh she doesn't speak, so in order to understand her we must watch her actions and her body language...intently.

Golnei said:
It's what you should expect when certain groups are beyond desperate to point fingers at patriarchal bogeymen and shriek sexism at the slightest provocation. Nothing that happens to Quiet is any different to Raiden or Snake - they're all designed to be subtly sexual, they're all occasionally captured and tortured, sometimes there's a few camera shots that focus on their anatomy.

Draw your own conclusions as to why it's only Quiet which is dragged out as some huge flaw in the game when every 'problematic' aspect of her character is more than equalled by the series' men.
Click to expand...

There is nothing subtle about Quiet's sexual design. I was one of those people rolling their eyes at people calling Kojima sexist when Quiet showed up in the trailers. Cause I was sure there'd be some explanation that would explain why she is the way she is. And the explanation I got was not satisfactory at all. Everything is Metal Gear is designed to sell toys, but at least the toys are based on characters with depth and dimension. Whereas I feel like Quiet is based on a toy design. Her character is solely about being eye candy and selling toys.
 
It's not even that this makes quiet's character bad, Kojima bad, or the game bad. It's that when people get asked "why do we keep bringing up sexual objectification of women!?" it's because this keeps happening.

Sexy stuff isn't bad, we're not prudes or anything. It's just that it keeps being the norm. Although, MGSV is so blatant that I'd almost say it falls outside of the norm.

I mean, we have people denying it's happening right when it's in front of their face. And you wonder why people have to get loud about it?
 
Oh good, we're on the "Quiet isn't perversely sexualized because Raiden was naked for humor" phase. Fun fun.

As an aside, I like this tweet from Chip Cheezum the other day.

J6nmZZT.png
 
Sumio Mondo said:
I'm personally glad that a series that has become obsessed with pleasing the fanbase with constant answers actually leaves certain things open for interpretation like this. I also wonder if The Sorrow even knew he was the father, since he was "killed" before The Boss gave birth to Ocelot...
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Nope, he was killed in 1962 in Tselinoyarsk. Apparently you can see his skeleton after being thrown off the bridge in Virtuous Mission.

Alienous said:
Well, I suppose, seeing as Big Boss had a sudden shift in character after his coma.

Big Boss as we know him from Peace Walker and Snake Eater would have slapped Zero's head. "Sacrifice a hospital of innocent people for me, are you nuts?".
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Yes, but probably not BB after watching MSF collapse. I agree that BB even at the true end of Peace Walker would probably be unhappy about it, but he does say that they might have to become "terrorists" to follow the times, so IDK how far his heel face turn had gotten by that point.

Sumio Mondo said:
Especially considering they saved his and Miller's life.
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BB truly loses sight of everything after GZ I guess. Venom by comparison still has the ideals of Big Medic, but follows whatever he's coerced into believing is "what BB would do". (See below for more)

SuperStiltzkin said:
How come people never mention how stupid the mancatapults were in MGS4? Of all the infiltration methods; submarine pod, bungie jumping off a bridge, scuba diving, halo jumping, and helicopter. The mancatapult into Outer Haven is the stupidest shit ever. It's Twin Snakes door cartwheel bad. Snake is great soldier, but he couldn't survive that shit without breaking some bones like Johnny. Especially in his old ass state.
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It is kind of absurd. Don't know why they didn't at least say they all had nanospring shoes or something to absorb the impact.

Opto said:
Joosten is incredibly adorable so it's weird to see how she was used for pretty much only sexy stuff in MGSV.

-

Okay so with all the diving into the plotholes and the fact that Ghost Babel was ripped off and that the themes were half baked and there was barely a plot and the game was just an non-clever lie, I think I'm left being upset with this game. Even if MGS4 was excessive and unneccessary, it at least told a story and tried to be genuine at moments.

It's not like Snake putting that gun in his mouth turn into a twist where Old Snake was secretly a fourth clone brainwashed to be Solid Snake who was busy having his own mission.
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What's this about Ghost Babel, I'd heard other people say Kojima ripped off of Tomokazu Fukushima? As for Joosten, I guess she has a cat pose? Though I've only seen it mentioned in the strategy gudie, so it might still be just as "sexy"
tasteless
as ever other pose Kojima made her do in the chopper.

Neiteio said:
Thinking about it some more, I wonder if Venom knows the hospital was put in harm's way. I wonder what he'd think about that, after going through that hell firsthand. Remember, Venom is the guy who saves puppies and sheep and child soldiers and spares Huey and has soul-searching memories of Paz. I kind of think the whole hospital scheme might rub him the wrong way.
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Venom is pretty clearly more similar to the BB before GZ then BB himself in TPP. I really think that the best way to interpret Venom is someone who believes he is Big Boss, but lacks even facsimiles of significant portions of BB's actual memories and feelings. Part of the whole point of the BB and Zero split is that they have different interpretations of the Boss' will, so if two people could have such different feelings and interpretations of one person, how could Zero get Ocelot to truly replicate BB, and not just create a "robot" that possessed the general memories of him, without his true feelings on the events?

I've said if before, but I'd say Venom is really just "the medic" in personality and character, while being programmed to ignore missing memories and to basically just fool everyone and himself into believing he's Big Boss for as long as possible. The way he acts in the game is that of someone who doesn't really know why he's doing what he's doing, he has no great amount of agency and just believes what people tell him about "himself".

"The medic's" real personality and "self" sometimes shine through, and he is definitely a more forgiving and soft person than BB was after Snake Eater. What I'm saying, is he's still naive, and doesn't really do any dark actions without that action being heavily pressured and expected from others who he subconsciously knows to have more knowledge of what BB would do in any situation.

To paraphrase BB in 4 and the theme of 4, the Patriot's never succeeded in fully transforming one person to another, they didn't replicate Big Boss' "sense". They gave him as much of BB's memes as possible, but they couldn't truly impart BB's feelings and thoughts about the events he's experienced onto Venom, it's why he has no emotional reaction or hardly even a recollection of the AI pod. Venom, just like the player, has no true agency, since he's brainwashed to just "go with the flow", he wanders aimlessly as a person with no real true free will.

And Big Boss uses that, Venom, unlike Raiden has no hope for freedom. When Venom here's the truth, he's happy. What better person to know what "BB" should do, than BB himself. Instead of snapping him out of his hypnotism and making him pissed to learn he's a "fake", this just plays into his programming, and he rolls with it. If they truly replicated BB, he'd be absolutely furious about being played by Zero, and who he'd feel was the "real fake", the true BB. Instead he is happy to follow his programming, until of course, he finally realizes that he's screwed in the end.

So, basically I'm saying, Big Medic really isn't even a replication of Big Boss, his "sense" is completely different. So if he found out that the hospital was sacrificed on purpose, he'd be shocked. But if he learned soon after that Big Boss was the one who did it, he wouldn't object, since he is programmed to do whatever he's told Big Boss would do, even if he never really feels what Big Boss would feel.

Raiden at least wasn't literally programmed to lack free will. Poor Venom.
 
I don't remember the part where the genome soldiers take off Snake's pants and try to rape him by sodomizing him.

Can anyone point that part out to me? Youtube video, preferably, I may have just missed the scene.
 
I assume they were planning on moving Venom out of the hospital the moment the plastic surgery was done and Venom could walk again, which would have been a couple of days after the attack.
 
S ranked every mission woop!

Also, I just figured out you can centre the camera behind snake by tapping R1...Would've been hella useful to have known that earlier...
 
Quiet's just shoving her butt in Venom's face to make up for having to stare at Big Boss' ass crack throughout he hospital escape.

(Watch someone say that a patient wearing hospital scrubs while in a hospital is totally equivalent to seeing Quiet's ass.)
 
ShockingAlberto said:
I don't remember the part where the genome soldiers take off Snake's pants and try to rape him by sodomizing him.

Can anyone point that part out to me? Youtube video, preferably, I may have just missed the scene.
Click to expand...

What exactly did you think would happen to a woman that ended up in her situation?

Rape is easily the first thing that comes to mind.
 
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