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Spoiler thread for Arrival | We have Contact again

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Depths of Orion said:
Absolutely loved the movie. The only thing that I wish they touched on a bit more was why the aliens needed the humans to help them in 3000 years.

If the aliens can perceive time the same way, why do they need the humans?
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Same actually. That was the only part I didn't get. Was there some detail I missed about the significance of the 3000 years?

Edit: I did think that the fairly cliched Hollywood depiction of the USA, China and Russia as international players was the only major weakness in a film that was otherwise quite fresh, and had a core of optimism that was just what I needed right now. Didn't ruin the film, but I think let it down a little.
 
I'm glad they used fake news channels. I couldn't bear to watch CNN,MSNBC, or Fox News after what we just went through. It allowed me to escape, which I needed.
 
ZackieChan said:
She literally says this in the movie...

I feel like a lot of you weren't paying attention. Or maybe I just see the whole movie all at once? whatatwist.txt
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I think she said he left her because "she made the wrong choice" - presumably meaning her Choice to tell him the outcome of their daughter's illness (or life at least). This is reinforced by the line from the daughter "dad doesn't look at me the way you do". Louise looks at her with total love, despite knowing what happens, I assume Ian only has sadness.

I can't remember the exact dialogue but could it have been interpreted as having made the wrong choice in having the baby at all? Like referring to "let's make a baby." Sort of along the line of "I'd rather not go through the pain of it".

Hmm on second thoughts that's actually a pretty sad notion to not even wanting to have the life. So probably not.

Anyway, regarding what the aliens want out of humanity after 3000 years, it doesn't matter other than they do.

The whole movie has a sort of fatalistic approach to time. Knowing the future because you perceive time as it is. It takes away a little from the risk and danger of the outcome is already known by the aliens. Guess it's possible they only have vague recollection of the future a sort Louise does and it only makes sense as they progress through events.
 
mrkgoo said:
I think she said he left her because "she made the wrong choice" - presumably meaning her Choice to tell him the outcome of their daughter's illness (or life at least). This is reinforced by the line from the daughter "dad doesn't look at me the way you do". Louise looks at her with total love, despite knowing what happens, I assume Ian only has sadness.

I can't remember the exact dialogue but could it have been interpreted as having made the wrong choice in having the baby at all? Like referring to "let's make a baby." Sort of along the line of "I'd rather not go through the pain of it".
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I don't remember the exact dialogue, but I remember it being pretty clear that she was referring to telling him what would eventually happen to the daughter. And that he doesn't treat her the same (detached now) because of it.

Was the 3000 years thing in the subtitles when they meet? That was in Hungarian for me 😫
 
ZackieChan said:
I don't remember the exact dialogue, but I remember it being pretty clear that she was referring to telling him what would eventually happen to the daughter. And that he doesn't treat her the same (detached now) because of it.

Was the 3000 years thing in the subtitles when they meet? That was in Hungarian for me 😫
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She said he wasn't ready for what she told him. It was pretty clear he became distraught seeing his daughter from that point forward (as the daughter noted) and had to leave, presumably so that he wouldn't make his daughter feel even worse knowing that her dad was always sad (the reason why is up to interpretation, I guess you could assume he was mad at his wife for not telling him before they decided to have a child).
 
LewieP said:
Same actually. That was the only part I didn't get. Was there some detail I missed about the significance of the 3000 years?
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That was just the time when the humans could help the aliens; likely to fix whatever disease the aliens had (which is why one of them was dying).
 
PrankT said:
That was just the time when the humans could help the aliens; likely to fix whatever disease the aliens had (which is why one of them was dying).
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The aliens had a disease? I missed that part.

Where did they reveal that?
 
PrankT said:
That was just the time when the humans could help the aliens; likely to fix whatever disease the aliens had (which is why one of them was dying).
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Mario said:
The aliens had a disease? I missed that part.

Where did they reveal that?
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Abbott is death process. Although I interpreted that as Abbott having been injured or killed by the bomb.

It's funny how the movie is fantastically subtle for a lot of things which enriches the movie I feel, and also the point of one the themes in terms of misinterpreting what's going on.

In other areas it gets too explicit.
 
Mario said:
The aliens had a disease? I missed that part.

Where did they reveal that?
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Sorry, I should have said that's what I got from it. They didn't specifically say and I could be way off.

The fact that one was dying and the aliens needed help in 3000 years (which was the point of the movie), implied to me that the aliens needed help from the humans to fix their ailments in the future. Maybe he was just dying of old age or for a different reason entirely...
 
mrkgoo said:
Abbott is death process. Although I interpreted that as Abbott having been injured or killed by the bomb.

It's funny how the movie is fantastically subtle for a lot of things which enriches the movie I feel, and also the point of one the themes in terms of misinterpreting what's going on.

In other areas it gets too explicit.
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I thought Abbott was hurt prior to the bomb because he was slow to show up for them the previous visit.
 
This movie blew my mind.

I just got back home and still making revelations that makes me understand how many layers was hinted/suggested/implied/realized throughout this film.

Fantastic, would watch again.
 
PrankT said:
I thought Abbott was hurt prior to the bomb because he was slow to show up for them the previous visit.
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It has been a fun discussion amongst mine. In the end we agreed that it wasn't the important point.

The important point was something I forget because I am currently quite inebriated. Fatalism meaning that all interpretations are equally valid?

We also had a good time discussing what the film would look like if it included the event 3000 years in the future. Would something like 'The Fountain' be detrimental to the story or an entirely new superior product?
ZackieChan said:
Maybe he knew that the bomb would kill him, so he was slow to show up, but decided it was for the best.
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F4xuSfT.jpg
 
Were there any flash forwards between the prologue and her first contact? I was a bit uncertain on if she always had this ability or if they gave it to her. The language was the gift and her ability was the weapon, but where did she get this ability?
 
Unless I'm remembering the movie wrong, didn't they show the daughter dying at the very beginning? With her being depressed and walking into her class room/office/house? Before the Arrival and before the language exposure? Didn't they deliberately mislead the audience? For a while I thought she had a second child, and she was witnessing a whole new set of things to come for her. Then my own mother had to explain it to me.
 
Prologue said:
Unless I'm remembering the movie wrong, didn't they show the daughter dying at the very beginning? With her being depressed and walking into her class room/office/house? Before the Arrival and before the language exposure? Didn't they deliberately mislead the audience? For a while I thought she had a second child, and she was witnessing a whole new set of things to come for her. Then my own mother had to explain it to me.
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Your mom is right, only one daughter - she did indeed get sick and die, but chronologically that happens after the arrival.
 
Prologue said:
Unless I'm remembering the movie wrong, didn't they show the daughter dying at the very beginning? With her being depressed and walking into her class room/office/house? Before the Arrival and before the language exposure? Didn't they deliberately mislead the audience? For a while I thought she had a second child, and she was witnessing a whole new set of things to come for her. Then my own mother had to explain it to me.
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We assumed she was depressed over her daughter but she was just a lonely lady.
 
So do the aliens have this circular representation of time as well? I mean they have to right since they know that something bad is going to happen in 3000 years. If they can see that it's going to happen, are they just trying to prevent it by reaching out to Louise?

I'm just wondering what Louise, or humanity for that matter, can do to help them. I guess it would help if we knew what was going to happen in 3,000 years...
 
I like that they left the event in 3000 years vague and untouched. It lends to the reciprocal nature of the heptapod's view of time in a non-linear fashion.

I'm assuming with the release of Louise's book about translating Heptapod, most of the world will eventually have this same non-linear perception of time, and in turn be aware of all the advances they'll experience in their life time at the point of "conception" of the language as their thought base. The more people that learn it, the more information is transcoded into the "past" via these receivers, and the quicker newer and better technologies can be developed by people who already "remember" how it was created later in their lives. Information and technology grow at an exponential rate, and 3000 years in the future, mankind is able to help the heptapods in some way.

With regards to the film in general, goddamn. Denis Villeneuve knocking it out of the park with every single film he's touched. Dude is the next Spielberg/Coppola/Insert-Iconic-Director-Here.
 
Rainy said:
So do the aliens have this circular representation of time as well? I mean they have to right since they know that something bad is going to happen in 3000 years. If they can see that it's going to happen, are they just trying to prevent it by reaching out to Louise?

I'm just wondering what Louise, or humanity for that matter, can do to help them. I guess it would help if we knew what was going to happen in 3,000 years...
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They are in tune with the time mechanics/language/gift that they taught her, and they did it for mutual benefit.

Perhaps they came back in time to teach her and unite the world so that humans can save the aliens in the future. Or the heptapods just see the future and know they will die off without human help.
 
Just got back and this movie was great. The aliens had me thinking of the Tralfamadorians from Slaughterhouse Five really early on, so I think I wasn't as surprised by the whole "experiencing time" notion of the movie as my girlfriend, who hasn't read the book, was. It felt to me like someone went "Huh, those aliens in Slaughterhouse Five are cool. What other stories could be told with them?" But then, I don't know when the story this movie was based on was written, so maybe I've gotten it backwards.

Anyway. My only problem with the movie was that, for the first like twenty minutes, it felt like the movie didn't want me to hear any dialogue. There reaches a point where you can stop playing constant helicopter noises. I know we're at a military base. Maybe it was just something wrong with my theater, but there were many instances where I wish I could have had captions on.
 
Juneau Joe said:
Anyway. My only problem with the movie was that, for the first like twenty minutes, it felt like the movie didn't want me to hear any dialogue. There reaches a point where you can stop playing constant helicopter noises. I know we're at a military base. Maybe it was just something wrong with my theater, but there were many instances where I wish I could have had captions on.
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I didn't have that problem at all. I think it may have been your theater, like you said.
 
very good movie. i had the short story it is based off of on my shelf for the last year and read it to get hyped before i went to see it and i kind of wished i didn't. it spoiled the flash-fowards, so i was spoiled out of the revelations of those. also the whole chinese sub-plot doesn't exist in the story; the driving tension is the gov't's desire for technology transfer and the alien's consistent dismissal of such exchanges. and the main theme of the story is that even though one can know the future does not change the fact that one has to live it out and that attempts to change it only affects how one maximizes or minimizes the actions to get there. something about fermat's principle describing the behavior of light and variational dynamics in physics. i'd recommend reading the story to anyone who's seen the movie but only after, its short only 50 or so pages, and its quite good.
 
mrkgoo said:
I think she said he left her because "she made the wrong choice" - presumably meaning her Choice to tell him the outcome of their daughter's illness (or life at least). This is reinforced by the line from the daughter "dad doesn't look at me the way you do". Louise looks at her with total love, despite knowing what happens, I assume Ian only has sadness.

I can't remember the exact dialogue but could it have been interpreted as having made the wrong choice in having the baby at all? Like referring to "let's make a baby." Sort of along the line of "I'd rather not go through the pain of it".

Hmm on second thoughts that's actually a pretty sad notion to not even wanting to have the life. So probably not.

Anyway, regarding what the aliens want out of humanity after 3000 years, it doesn't matter other than they do.

The whole movie has a sort of fatalistic approach to time. Knowing the future because you perceive time as it is. It takes away a little from the risk and danger of the outcome is already known by the aliens. Guess it's possible they only have vague recollection of the future a sort Louise does and it only makes sense as they progress through events.
Click to expand...

I definitely took it as the second way. I hated the "do you wanna have a baby line"... but it was included to connect with the "wrong choice".
 
rinker said:
Were there any flash forwards between the prologue and her first contact? I was a bit uncertain on if she always had this ability or if they gave it to her. The language was the gift and her ability was the weapon, but where did she get this ability?
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The flash forwards at the beginning aren't a prologue. They're a red herring used to trick you into thinking it's a prologue. She doesn't actually have those flash forwards until after she starts interpreting the alien language.

The "ability" is merely something you get from interpreting the language. She explains it in the movie as "learning/understanding different languages can change how your brain perceives or thinks about things".

In a real world example, it's like how some languages have genders, and some don't. Like in Chinese you don't refer to him or her, it's always just "them". It might also mean you think about ther thugs in a slightly different way. Another example may be how Chinese isnsyllabic based with each syllable basically being a word or character and not built from component "letters".

Take this to an extreme where a language is 3 dimensional or time based and then the way you perceive time changes, thus having memories of the future.
 
I just got back from watching this. It's my favorite film of the year thus far.

As someone who learned Spanish in Spain during my mid-teens, I have on several occasions thought about if language has an effect on our thought-process. After a cursory glance it doesn't appear to have any substantial evidence to support it though. An interesting topic nonetheless.
 
Abbott is death process 😞

Really liked it. I do think they over explained it at the end though. I thought it was pretty clear by the time she was talking about the zero sum game and "your dad is a scientist" what was going on.
 
When she has that meeting with the "true form" of the alien and gets the revelation...

1408.gif
x 10

This is like a Shylaman movie if it was excellent.
 
Just got back from watching it, what a beautiful film.
Being aware and knowing all the ups and downs that lie up ahead and be like fuck it, let's roll with it because it's worth it. That takes guts.
 
mrkgoo said:
The flash forwards at the beginning aren't a prologue. They're a red herring used to trick you into thinking it's a prologue. She doesn't actually have those flash forwards until after she starts interpreting the alien language.

The "ability" is merely something you get from interpreting the language. She explains it in the movie as "learning/understanding different languages can change how your brain perceives or thinks about things".

In a real world example, it's like how some languages have genders, and some don't. Like in Chinese you don't refer to him or her, it's always just "them". It might also mean you think about ther thugs in a slightly different way. Another example may be how Chinese isnsyllabic based with each syllable basically being a word or character and not built from component "letters".

Take this to an extreme where a language is 3 dimensional or time based and then the way you perceive time changes, thus having memories of the future.
Click to expand...


Yeah I got that, I used term prologue to mean literally the opening of the movie. The part of the movie that concluded before we see her at her school. I'm still curious as to whether any of these 'memories' were displayed to the audience from the start of her classroom scene to the point of first contact. I can't remember, but I feel like the answer is yes. Which means that she was 'remembering' before the language was even presented to her.

The difference between the 'prologue' and the other 'memories' is that we get to see her reaction to them. The prologue part was abstract and had no context (which was cool cause that forced us to assume it was her back story). The other future memories she had usually were followed by a disoriented/light-headed look. If any of these occurred prior to first contact (which I think they did, but that's what I'm asking) then I'm not sure how.
 
Really liked it. Solid execution of a cool concept.

The moral of the story is that cool smart ladies don't get enough credit for putting up with cornball dork boys.

Let's all take a minute though and acknowledge that Sapir-Whorf is mostly a nonsense popsci thing that is cool to think about but bad to internalize.
 
Can someone explain something to me?

So she obviously understood the language, and was thus able to see time differently.
Does that mean she taught other people the language, and now humanity is learning the language too? At some point you see her teaching the language at a university.
 
-Plasma Reus- said:
Can someone explain something to me?

So she obviously understood the language, and was thus able to see time differently.
Does that mean she taught other people the language, and now humanity is learning the language too? At some point you see her teaching the language at a university.
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I think that's the implication (with the book, as well).
 
I really liked the film, interesting premise, acting was on point.

I'm not going to watch it again until its out for rental but did anyone else see/notice if she appears older in the flash forwards?

Me and my GF didn't notice a difference in age but her kid lives at least until her teenage years, which should be a pretty noticeable amount of aging.
 
Triteon said:
I really liked the film, interesting premise, acting was on point.

I'm not going to watch it again until its out for rental but did anyone else see/notice if she appears older in the flash forwards?

Me and my GF didn't notice a difference in age but her kid lives at least until her teenage years, which should be a pretty noticeable amount of aging.
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She looked around 16-ish when she was shown dying in bed, at least to me.
 
Einchy said:
She looked around 16-ish when she was shown dying in bed, at least to me.
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I meant the Adams character. she appears like a late 20's to mid 30's through the whole film. If she had a kid at that age and the kid lived to 15 she should look a lot older in those flash forwards.

Well at least according to my GF who apparently cares about that kind of thing more than I do.
 
I guess they could have maybe greyed up her hair a bit to show that she had aged but then again, Amy Adams is 42 in real life, she hit the fountain of youth.
 
Einchy said:
I guess they could have maybe greyed up her hair a bit to show that she had aged but then again, Amy Adams is 42 in real life, she hit the fountain of youth.
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Would have given away the twist right? I mean you dont know the beginning scenes take place in the future.
 
Lifejumper said:
Would have given away the twist right? I mean you dont know the beginning scenes take place in the future.
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Oh true, I was thinking about it from the point of view of someone who had already seen the movie and knew the twist and not from someone seeing it for the first time.
 
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