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Spoiler thread for Arrival | We have Contact again

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HF2014 said:
The girl is real, its her decision to have it, looking at the future, knowing the income. She see the future, but decide to still have her.
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The reason she is able to have visions of a non-linear timeline is that she came to learn the alien language; this was the gift. Ian could also read the language, so why didn't he have any visions?
 
shira said:
Short answer
Learning the "alien" language allows the user to manipulate time/space/dreams

Long answer
Exceeds character post limit
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No, i understood that. I just felt it was a lazy story device that killed the drama/intensity for me. After all this, she saves humanity by calling Shang? Why didn't anyone try to contact the Chinese government? They decided at one point to share their data, but realised they couldn't because China 'disconnected'? The only thing that disconnected was the monitor to the Chinese site. Why not broadcast their information on television channels? Flood it on social media? Call the Chinese government?

Again, too many silly things.

This film is no where as layered and interesting as it wants you to believe. Contact is still No.1 for this sort of story.
 
Meus Renaissance said:
No, i understood that. I just felt it was a lazy story device that killed the drama/intensity for me. After all this, she saves humanity by calling Shang? Why didn't anyone try to contact the Chinese government? They decided at one point to share their data, but realised they couldn't because China 'disconnected'? The only thing that disconnected was the monitor to the Chinese site. Why not broadcast their information on television channels? Flood it on social media? Call the Chinese government?

Again, too many silly things.

This film is no where as layered and interesting as it wants you to believe. Contact is still No.1 for this sort of story.
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If you are not familiar with Chinese Internet - China's government selectively filters their internet information https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Shield_Project

It's actually quite difficult to use Western social media in China and vice-versa.

That plot point seemed fine for me.
 
Meus Renaissance said:
The reason she is able to have visions of a non-linear timeline is that she came to learn the alien language; this was the gift. Ian could also read the language, so why didn't he have any visions?
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I posted this earlier:
mrkgoo said:
They said it in the film. Sometimes learning a language you get immersed (and they mention like living in another language for a time) and the way your mind perceives and understands things can change.

The husband may have learnt the language to an extent, and able to do translation etc, but as an expert or with an inherent talent in language or whatever, Louise was able to think in it. They establish that by showing how involved she got with it.

Consider in the real world someone who learns another language, even to a great fluency, but cannot quite get the syntax 100%, or retain an accent, or can do really good translations but not really formulate extensive text, or are just good at conversation and. It written.

That's different from thinking and breathing that language, something that they imply Louise gets to, being the primary expert and fully involved in deciphering the language.
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Basically she understood the language to a greater extent, maybe even thinking in the language. He was not able to. Presumably. I thought it was fine.
 
I didn't see people talking about it, but I find it neat that Louise's daughter name is Hannah, a palindrome. That fits with the theme of circularity/non linearity.
 
I fucking loved this movie. I remember thinking early on, just because they showed us amy Adams with her kid, doesn't mean it happened prior to the arrival of the aliens. I got it right! I didn't think the movie explained things too much at all. It was very eloquent and heartfelt as Louise finally realized whats been happening to her.

fr0st said:
Reminded me of up.

I wonder if Louise can see multiple timelines in the future.
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I don't think so. The movie shows that space time is linear. There was never an implication that the future could change.
 
fr0st said:
Reminded me of up.

I wonder if Louise can see multiple timelines in the future.
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I interpreted this not as her seeing the future or being able to predict things, but experiencing time completely non-linearly. It starts to get into fate maybe more than intended by the writers/filmmakers, but maybe she has 0 possibility of not doing the things that lead to the outcomes she knows. Like, the examples we saw were her preventing war and her experiencing a daughter she loved deeply.

The phone call sequence is primarily what makes me think she's experiencing non-linear time, and not just seeing the future. There is no possibility for an original timeline or anything like that, she had to have always learned the number that way. She also only knew what to say because he told her.
 
What was the early joke about the guy at Berkley and the Sanskrit word for war? The helicopters were too loud for me to understand what Forest Whitaker was saying.
 
butzopower said:
What was the early joke about the guy at Berkley and the Sanskrit word for war? The helicopters were too loud for me to understand what Forest Whitaker was saying.
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Berkley guy said it was an argument, she said it was something about cows (forget what exactly).

I think the whole point was to set up the weapon/tool debate later.
 
balohna said:
Berkley guy said it was an argument, she said it was something about cows (forget what exactly).

I think the whole point was to set up the weapon/tool debate later.
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Yeah, it was something about needing more cows (so you go to war, I guess). I'm not sure why that would have gotten her the job, why Forrest Whitaker would understand why it's the better answer, etc. though.
 
I didn't really hear it either cus of the helicopter but I sorta assumed that the other guy translated it as something poetic and profound when it was actually was someone wanting to buy cows.
 
Is Abbot the name of one of the aliens? I must have missed when they named them. Because when the one alien said "Abbot is death." I was thinking Abbot was the mutineer.
 
Meus Renaissance said:
No, i understood that. I just felt it was a lazy story device that killed the drama/intensity for me. After all this, she saves humanity by calling Shang? Why didn't anyone try to contact the Chinese government? They decided at one point to share their data, but realised they couldn't because China 'disconnected'? The only thing that disconnected was the monitor to the Chinese site. Why not broadcast their information on television channels? Flood it on social media? Call the Chinese government?

Again, too many silly things.

This film is no where as layered and interesting as it wants you to believe. Contact is still No.1 for this sort of story.
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Well he does outright say not even his superiors could change his mind, and I would think literally getting told your wife's dying words to you via a random phone call on your personal number is a lot like witnessing Aliens make contact with earth for the first time. Plus I believe it was personal phone, so they were already on the movie to strike, the US probably wouldn't have time to get a good message out that would actually reach him let alone change his mind with new information. This and the soldiers going against and sabotaging are definitively parts I can see people reasonably not liking and I understand why but I still found them justified enough within the movie.
 
SuperStiltzkin said:
Oh okay. For some reason I don't remember seeing a scene where they named them. I didn't go to the bathroom or anything. I'll have to rewatch it again sometime.
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It was when they took off their suits for the first time to let the aliens seem them as individuals with their own names, it was the very end of that scene too I believe so it could be lost in passing, Ian brings it up I think.

TheChewyWaffles said:
Great film. Still ruminating over this one. Loved the score. Loved the flash-forward reveal.
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The score was amazing, probably all I'm gonna listen to tonight lol
 
I was really looking forward to this movie for the last few months. After seeing it, I feel it was a real letdown.

mrkgoo said:
Just got back from seeing it, and while I did love it and think i twas great, a couple of flaws do detract from it.

1) The pacing seems a bit uneven. It;s really slow for the first half, with introduction of the arrival and so on, then it speeds through time a bit, then slows back down, and then speeds through the revelations.

2) While fantastically subtle at some aspects to the concept, it is equally fantastically "explainy". There are moments that are narrated to you explicitly to let you know whats going on, and at one point literally SPELLED out fro you on screen - the subtitles were hokey. I wish they just did away with them and while still letting them have their conversation, only subtly suggest what it was about.

But the concept and execution overall were so cool.

I'm a little bummed that there doesn't appear to be much to rewatch.
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Agreed fully. Regarding #2, there are moments where I had to remind myself I wasn't watching a Shyamalan movie, including a groan-inducing scene with the Chinese official/president/general/whoever near the end.

Also, you're spot-on with the pacing. It's awful. Also, WTF is with this movie's narration? It opens with the main character narrating, which then thankfully disappears, but then 35 minutes later Renner starts blabbing during a montage music with some garbage music playing. It was jarring and needless.

This movie is like Shyamalan's version of Knowing.
 
Chiggs said:
I was really looking forward to this movie for the last few months. After seeing it, I feel it was a real letdown.



Agreed fully. Regarding #2, there are moments where I had to remind myself I wasn't watching a Shyamalan movie, including a groan-inducing scene with the Chinese official/president/general/whoever near the end.

Also, you're spot-on with the pacing. It's awful. Also, WTF is with this movie's narration? It opens with the main character narrating, which then thankfully disappears, but then 35 minutes later Renner starts blabbing during a montage music with some garbage music playing. It was jarring and needless.

This movie is like Shyamalan's version of Knowing.
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I think honestly that would be my only real issue with the movie, I expected his Narration to end with him talking into a recorder but I don't believe that happens.
 
I'll have to watch this again. Caught it with a friend a couple hours ago and I dozed off through most of the middle. I like Villeneuve's stuff a lot, but this was the first film by him that didn't immediately grab me on any level.
 
I loved it overall, the amazing OST and those shots of Montana, even if the ending left some wtfs in my head, I really enjoyed it, it's worth a second watch for sure. It feels like a love letter to all linguists haha.

I don't remember what was the name of the "syndrome" that caused your brain to change when learning languages and does anyone know which is the Hungarian word the CIA guy was talking about?
 
I understand the complaints about being hit over the head with Ian/Hannah, but I think it worked. I don't think it was there to just make you understand that he is the father and she is their child, but rather, the *choice* to be together and have a child even if you knew how it would end.

That's why the line "Do you want to make a baby?" is so poignant. Even knowing that Hannah would die young and Ian and her would divorce, she said "Yes". It's something that Ian likely would not have chosen.
 
Konosuke said:
I loved it overall, the amazing OST and those shots of Montana, even if the ending left some wtfs in my head, I really enjoyed it, it's worth a second watch for sure. It feels like a love letter to all linguists haha.
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I think it was shot in Montreal.
 
Loved the film, my favorite of the year at the moment.

I was just thinking about it and the zero sum game scene was great. Once you figure out what's going on you realize she only knew the answer after Ian said it. She popped back into the future unknowingly.

Just cool details like that is why I enjoyed it so much. Gonna see it again to look into the future scenes to maybe catch things I missed.
 
Dominator said:
Loved the film, my favorite of the year at the moment.

I was just thinking about it and the zero sum game scene was great. Once you figure out what's going on you realize she only knew the answer after Ian said it. She popped back into the future unknowingly.

Just cool details like that is why I enjoyed it so much. Gonna see it again to look into the future scenes to maybe catch things I missed.
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There's a lot of foreshadowing like in that same scene she told her daughter to "if you want science go ask your dad". I thought it meant that her previous husband was a scientist like Ian but it turns out that it actually was Ian.
 
Mindlog said:
Yeah for a little while I know some entertained the notion that the dad was dead the whole time.
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Yeah I think at first there is this notion that maybe stuff is simply going to "repeat" similar to the past, that Ian will just be another Husband who was into science and that Louise will have a second child. Before it really just hits home that it's just looking at a linear timeline non-linearly and that this past is the future. I was never really set on her having a second child but I think the film at least sets that up as a possibility with how some stuff was portrayed, or at least how you can interpret some of the scenes. Did she say her Daughters name in the beginning of the movie or before we learn it's Origin? That's the one part I forget but I think she did, that would make it or break it or confuse it for some people if they remember that. The second we got thrust into the win-win scene a second time again suddenly is really I think when the Time travel notion is fully in play and the "past" we've been seeing turns into the future. Can't wait for my Mom to see the movie lol, this'll be fun to explain it to her or see where and what she picked up on fully ahead of time or afterwards.
 
It's an interesting movie, albeit somewhat bogged down by clichés (squid-like aliens again?), a simplistic world view (was the Chinese general's wife named "Martha"?), and an all-too anthropocentric narrative (hint: very few terrestrial animals understand imperative pointing).

As far as first-contact movies are concerned it's not bad, and the time-jumping language is cute. But still, in this regard Tarkovsky's Solaris still reigns supreme. For Lem (the author of Solaris) communication with an alien life-form is an absolutely hopeless endeavour (contact with humanity is more of a happenstance initiated by us with little regard of our existence). The (maybe) sentient ocean Solaris is truly inscrutable, both intellectually and emotionally (even the applicability of those words being in doubt). As such, the exchange which takes place may not be a form of communication at all, but some sort of unintentional radiological side-effect which materializes conscious and sub-conscious thoughts and memories (because ultimately the story has to be about something we can relate to).

But on its own terms Arrival is a decent sci-fi, with a refreshing dose of sobriety. 7/10.
 
My favourite movie of the year. Preferred it to Sicario which I also really enjoyed. Maybe less so than Prisoners and Enemy though.

The movie resonated with me a lot given the various subject matters. I enjoyed the character development and both the cinematography and soundtrack which were really fantastic.

I can't stop thinking about this film. I haven't been this satisfied walking out the theatres in a while.
 
youta said:
It's an interesting movie, albeit somewhat bogged down by clichés (squid-like aliens again?), a simplistic world view (was the Chinese general's wife named "Martha"?), and an all-too anthropocentric narrative (hint: very few terrestrial animals understand imperative pointing).

As far as first-contact movies are concerned it's not bad, and the time-jumping language is cute. But still, in this regard Tarkovsky's Solaris still reigns supreme. For Lem (the author of Solaris) communication with an alien life-form is an absolutely hopeless endeavour (contact with humanity is more of a happenstance initiated by us with little regard of our existence). The (maybe) sentient ocean Solaris is truly inscrutable, both intellectually and emotionally (even the applicability of those words being in doubt). As such, the exchange which takes place may not be a form of communication at all, but some sort of unintentional radiological side-effect which materializes conscious and sub-conscious thoughts and memories (because ultimately the story has to be about something we can relate to).

But on its own terms Arrival is a decent sci-fi, with a refreshing dose of sobriety. 7/10.
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Certainly sounds interesting, and this is just based off of what you explained (I'll have to check the movie out, is it easily view able?) but isn't this sentient ocean just some other form of possible intelligent life? What we're presented with here in Arrival is just a different form of something at least somewhat similar to us in presentation, they are still physically separate beings and not one giant mass like a sentient ocean suggest to me reading what you put. Should it not be unreasonable to suggest or believe that there is at least some intelligent life out there similar to us in some regards like that? I'm sure there would be plenty of "intelligent" life out there that we would never be able to comprehend, but for all intents and purposes, the movie here makes these beings to at least be somewhat similar in certain aspects. Though I suppose that's the problem itself with the movie here, it's just what it decided to go with. And with that I still think they nailed it, even with some of traditional Hollywood seeping in.
 
With regards to the idea that the future was set: I think it could be changed as evidenced in the moment when the alien tried to warn them about the bomb (or perhaps it was telling them to leave). It also likely knew it was going to die but chose to save the humans (after all them learning the language was of paramount importance given humanity's involvement in their species survival in the far future).
 
Napoleonthechimp said:
With regards to the idea that the future was set: I think it could be changed as evidenced in the moment when the alien tried to warn them about the bomb (or perhaps it was telling them to leave). It also likely knew it was going to die but chose to save the humans (after all them learning the language was of paramount importance given humanity's involvement in their species survival in the far future).
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How was that evidence? Maybe they saw the future, and did it anyway? Or maybe they didn't see the future in this instance. I think the idea was that memories could bet rom the past or future, and you know how vague a memory can be, why not also be vague sometimes fro future memories?
 
Yeah this movie was awesome. I feel like people complaining about being hit over the head with stuff are missing the point of being hit over the head.
 
Did anyone watch Skyfall and think "so this is Mendes' Christopher Nolan film." The similarities in style, pacing, and even characterization were very strong between Skyfall and Dark Knight and Mendes even confirmed the influence without saying he ripped it off.

I feel like this is Villeneuve's "Christopher Nolan" film with the pacing, visual style, teases and reveals, bookending, etc all being very reminiscent of Nolan's style and the thematic similarities to Interstellar. Thankfully Arrival has a stronger emotional core.

Some pacing issues and slightly-too-convenient reveals aside, Arrival is a great movie.
 
watershed said:
Did anyone watch Skyfall and think "so this is Mendes' Christopher Nolan film." The similarities in style, pacing, and even characterization were very strong between Skyfall and Dark Knight and Mendes even confirmed the influence without saying he ripped it off.

I feel like this is Villeneuve's "Christopher Nolan" film with the pacing, visual style, teases and reveals, bookending, etc all being very reminiscent of Nolan's style and the thematic similarities to Interstellar. Thankfully Arrival has a stronger emotional core.

Some pacing issues and slightly-too-convenient reveals aside, Arrival is a great movie.
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Yup. Felt like a "tighter" Nolan movie in a lot of ways.
 
mrkgoo said:
How was that evidence? Maybe they saw the future, and did it anyway? Or maybe they didn't see the future in this instance. I think the idea was that memories could bet rom the past or future, and you know how vague a memory can be, why not also be vague sometimes fro future memories?
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They tried to avert it but the humans couldn't understand. One would assume if they knew the future couldn't be averted then they wouldn't have bothered trying. Also, I'm assuming they have a high degree of mastery over their perception of time given that it is their language.

In addition to that I also wonder whether or not the perception of future events is tied to the individual's own lifespan (ie can they only "remember" events their future selves experience?). I mean we don't know exactly how long those aliens live. They could theoretically live exponentially longer than humans.
 
So if she can see the future in some sense or speak the language of time, why is she powerless to stop it?

I mean the disease wasn't mentioned, but I assume her daughter dies around 10-12 years old. Why did she not tell him earlier? Why didn't she try to change things at all? Why not see if having a baby a year later or earlier might change the outcome?
 
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