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[LegendofLex]

A boy appearing at the end of that hallway is curious, since there wasn't a boy at all in that sequence in Empire. All the other visions, in both the film and novel, seem to be actual representations of the events that happened, with Rey's presence being the outlier. That there's no further elaboration other than "a boy" tells me it's just deliberately vague to make the reader fill it in themselves rather than any kind of a hint about anything. A vision of Anakin as a boy seems plausible enough.

This is why I'm speculating that perhaps it's a young Kylo/Ben. He's certainly the only character from TFA we can immediately associate with a "boy" who has any reason to be on Bespin at any point ever. In the end, we have nothing from the OT to link to the appearance of a boy during the Luke/Vader fight, so an OT reference seems like it's out.

It seems to me that, unlike the other scenes in the vision which depict singular events, the Bespin thing may be intended to lace together multiple events that both happened in that same place: the duel between Vader/Luke that resulted in the saber being lost, and Ben looking for the saber (only to fail to find it, or perhaps to have it taken by Maz). I could see something like that being a first step on his path toward his Vader obsession, which flows nicely into that obsession escalating and him joining the Knights of Ren/First Order.

I mean, we already know he hangs onto trinkets of Vader's, and he makes a specific claim on the lightsaber despite there being no certain reason why he should be able to identify it (unless he's encountered it before or was otherwise previously fixated on it).

 

[Surfinn]

This is why I'm speculating that perhaps it's a young Kylo/Ben. He's certainly the only character from TFA we can immediately associate with a "boy" who has any reason to be on Bespin at any point ever. In the end, we have nothing from the OT to link to the appearance of a boy during the Luke/Vader fight, so an OT reference seems like it's out.

It seems to me that, unlike the other scenes in the vision which depict singular events, the Bespin thing may be intended to lace together multiple events that both happened in that same place: the duel between Vader/Luke that resulted in the saber being lost, and Ben looking for the saber (only to fail to find it, or perhaps to have it taken by Maz). I could see something like that being a first step on his path toward his Vader obsession, which flows nicely into that obsession escalating and him joining the Knights of Ren/First Order.

I mean, we already know he hangs onto trinkets of Vader's, and he makes a specific claim on the lightsaber despite there being no certain reason why he should be able to identify it (unless he's encountered it before or was otherwise previously fixated on it).

Maybe.. we know Maz owned the saber at one point, obviously, but if Ben was indeed in Cloud City, how did he know the saber was there? Did he try to get it before Maz or try to steal it from her? Maz mentions that the story is rather important ("a good question.. for another time"), so maybe it does have to do with extraordinary circumstances that do involve Ben.

Or the scene was just ultimately cut/not included in the film and holds no significance. Has anyone ever officially provided an answer?

Either way, it's interesting that it doesn't seem to be a significant talking point.

 

[brandonh83]

I don't know how acceptable it is to talk about this, but I think it should be fine as it isn't a product but there's a For Your Consideration version of the soundtrack out there with more music from the movie and some folks have made custom soundtracks with the new music mixed in appropriate to the film chronology and they're damned fantastic.

It has the Resistance theme that plays in the movie; if you compare it to the soundtrack release version its in a different key. But that one is still included in the edits. Just letting people who give a shit know. One thing I wish they'd do is include the version of the Force theme from A New Hope when Rey gets the saber, that track just feels wrong without it.

 

[The Boat]

So, in the end of the movie there's that shitty helicopter shot that spins around Luke and Rey right? Well, last night I finally went to see the movie again, but either I was very high or that shot wasn't there, it was just a zoom out and a slight pan and the movie ends, no spinning around.

Is the non IMAX version different or did I just pass out for a few seconds?

 

[Kilrogg]

So, in the end of the movie there's that shitty helicopter shot that spins around Luke and Rey right? Well, last night I finally went to see the movie again, but either I was very high or that shot wasn't there, it was just a zoom out and a slight pan and the movie ends, no spinning around.

Is the non IMAX version different or did I just pass out for a few seconds?

Went to see it again a few weeks ago (2D, non-IMAX) and I can confirm: it's not a spinning shot. It's just a pan for a few seconds, but it's still kinda crappy. I assume the goal was to give the scene and the characters a sense of grandeur and epic significance, but to me it did the exact opposite: it just makes them look tiny, not to mention ridiculous, what with Rey standing 5 meters away from Luke and holding the lightsaber the way she does.

To me it should have ended on Luke's face... Speaking of, his expression still weirds me out. I don't know whether he looks bored, depressed, drunk, annoyed, grumpy or all of the above to me, but he looks off.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

They should remove that shot in the special editions, build in a sun set behind luke and have the camera behind Rey.

 

[Palpable]

I don't like how they handled Solo's death. It was too quick and they brushed over it like it was nothing after it happened. I mean, the dude even took down an AT-AT by himself! ;p

 

[Surfinn]

This is why I'm speculating that perhaps it's a young Kylo/Ben. He's certainly the only character from TFA we can immediately associate with a "boy" who has any reason to be on Bespin at any point ever. In the end, we have nothing from the OT to link to the appearance of a boy during the Luke/Vader fight, so an OT reference seems like it's out.

It seems to me that, unlike the other scenes in the vision which depict singular events, the Bespin thing may be intended to lace together multiple events that both happened in that same place: the duel between Vader/Luke that resulted in the saber being lost, and Ben looking for the saber (only to fail to find it, or perhaps to have it taken by Maz). I could see something like that being a first step on his path toward his Vader obsession, which flows nicely into that obsession escalating and him joining the Knights of Ren/First Order.

I mean, we already know he hangs onto trinkets of Vader's, and he makes a specific claim on the lightsaber despite there being no certain reason why he should be able to identify it (unless he's encountered it before or was otherwise previously fixated on it).

Speaking of which.. do we know where Vader's red saber is? I don't remember if it fell down the shaft where the Emperor died in ROTJ.

 

[Lifejumper]

Church of the Force was taken from George Lucas proposed live action tv series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4WgvDLgIjg#t=09m00s

 

[QuantumZebra]

I don't know, one of the most universally liked aspects of TFA seems to be the characters, and specifically the new characters. Certainly a world of difference compared to the prequels. There's an argument to be made, and not an entirely crazy one, that it's got the strongest characterization of any Star Wars film, period.

I'm in this camp. After one movie I cared more about the characters than I ever did for anyone in the PT or even the OT TBH.

 

[Liquidsnake]

Sorry OT, but if the rumors of a July Blu ray are true, Im going to rage like never before.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Speaking of which.. do we know where Vader's red saber is? I don't remember if it fell down the shaft where the Emperor died in ROTJ.

The Acolytes of the Beyond (three of them anyway) recovered it from a junk dealer and intended to destroy it "to return it to Vader in death."

 

[Surfinn]

The Acolytes of the Beyond (three of them anyway) recovered it from a junk dealer and intended to destroy it "to return it to Vader in death."

Interesting.. thank you for this. Wonder if we ever see his saber in the films.

 

[Trigonometrize.]

I don't like how they handled Solo's death. It was too quick and they brushed over it like it was nothing after it happened. I mean, the dude even took down an AT-AT by himself! ;p

I disagree. Chewie had his moment of rage, Kylo refernced it in the fight, and then after the conflict was over the movie was mostly silent with Leia and Rey embracing (obviously over Han's death), Chewie being sad, and then the more important part of meeting Luke. Most all of the softer tone following his death was due to it.

 

[The Boat]

Went to see it again a few weeks ago (2D, non-IMAX) and I can confirm: it's not a spinning shot. It's just a pan for a few seconds, but it's still kinda crappy. I assume the goal was to give the scene and the characters a sense of grandeur and epic significance, but to me it did the exact opposite: it just makes them look tiny, not to mention ridiculous, what with Rey standing 5 meters away from Luke and holding the lightsaber the way she does.

To me it should have ended on Luke's face... Speaking of, his expression still weirds me out. I don't know whether he looks bored, depressed, drunk, annoyed, grumpy or all of the above to me, but he looks off.

Ah good to know I'm not crazy. I don't mind it like this honestly.

 

[Surfinn]

I disagree. Chewie had his moment of rage, Kylo refernced it in the fight, and then after the conflict was over the movie was mostly silent with Leia and Rey embracing (obviously over Han's death), Chewie being sad, and then the more important part of meeting Luke. Most all of the softer tone following his death was due to it.

Yup, there was a huge impact and it was shown in the film. Problem is they didn't have time to mourn, and I'm sure we'll see even more of Han's death having an impact on everyone.

They immediately had to move forward, otherwise the destruction of Starkiller would be meaningless (Leia views Luke as their last hope of truly defeating their enemies). They had to find Luke before the FO.

 

[GSG Flash]

You know... I watched the movie again a couple weeks ago, and I noticed and enjoyed the soundtrack a lot more than the first time around, probably because I didn't have the story to focus on as much. I actually really like the soundtrack now, when I was meh on it before.

 

[Toothless]

So, in the end of the movie there's that shitty helicopter shot that spins around Luke and Rey right? Well, last night I finally went to see the movie again, but either I was very high or that shot wasn't there, it was just a zoom out and a slight pan and the movie ends, no spinning around.

Is the non IMAX version different or did I just pass out for a few seconds?

Eh I think you passed out. The helicopter shot is easily the film's biggest flaw IMO. Should've ended with a static shot of Rey and Luke looking at each other after Luke's final face.

 

[watershed]

God that final shot annoyed me so much the first time. By my second viewing it was less bad because it was less surprising but it's still a terrible shot.

 

[GhaleonEB]

You know... I watched the movie again a couple weeks ago, and I noticed and enjoyed the soundtrack a lot more than the first time around, probably because I didn't have the story to focus on as much. I actually really like the soundtrack now, when I was meh on it before.

This has been a pretty common reaction - I had the same one as well. It's a less bombastic, more nuanced score than the prior films. But I think it's in some ways better for it.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

Yeah, I am listening to the soundtrack on Apple Music all the time and its great.
It just quotes the old themes a little bit to often, but beside that, its fine.

 

[Blue Ninja]

Yeah, I love the soundtrack. I listen to it a lot.

 

[excelsiorlef]

This has been a pretty common reaction - I had the same one as well. It's a less bombastic, more nuanced score than the prior films. But I think it's in some ways better for it.

It's the best overall. It lacks a killer track but as a whole it is the best to listen to start to end especially when you add the extra tracks from the FYC album

 

[Ushojax]

Jedi Steps is the best. That last cue is the perfect combination of exhilaration and foreboding, that 30 seconds before the credits was worth waiting 10 years for.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Jedi Steps is the best. That last cue is the perfect combination of exhilaration and foreboding, that 30 seconds before the credits was worth waiting 10 years for.

And that last note at the very end of tracks is beautiful

 

[Surfinn]

It's the best overall. It lacks a killer track but as a whole it is the best to listen to start to end especially when you add the extra tracks from the FYC album

I'd argue that track is March of the Resistance. Fantastic from beginning to end, lots of punch. Gets stuck in my head all the time.

 

[Megalosaro]

What if Smoke IS Plaguis. And he's a force ghost.

 

[UnforgivenTwin]

What if Smoke IS Plaguis. And he's a force ghost.

Woah!

 

[BreezyLimbo]

What if Smoke IS Plaguis. And he's a force ghost.

...Smoke from mortal kombat?

Where does Raiden fit into all of this

 

[GAMEPROFF]

What if Smoke IS Plaguis. And he's a force ghost.

Siths cant have force ghosts.

 

[Surfinn]

Siths cant have force ghosts.

Was wondering this myself. Any official confirmation?

 

[GAMEPROFF]

Was wondering this myself. Any official confirmation?

Yes, Clone Wars or Rebels said so.

 

[Surfinn]

Yes, Clone Wars or Rebels said so.

Link please?

 

[Stitch]

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_spirit

 

[Surfinn]

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_spirit

Thanks, I didn't know there was an official confirmation. Always figured as much but it's nice to know for sure.

 

[brandonh83]

I mean it makes sense because Qui-Gon was the only Jedi who knew about it and taught it to Yoda and Kenobi after the prequels.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

They can easily retcon this if they want to. It wouldn't be the first time Yoda is wrong about something. The dude literally wanted to let Han, Leia and co. die on Bespin (even though Leia is the "other" hope he talks about in the next film) and then he wanted Luke to kill his father (despite the fact that the Emperor would win if Luke gives in to anger).

 

[LegendofLex]

They can easily retcon this if they want to. It wouldn't be the first time Yoda is wrong about something. The dude literally wanted to let Han, Leia and co. die on Bespin (even though Leia is the "other" hope he talks about in the next film) and then he wanted Luke to kill his father (despite the fact that the Emperor would win if Luke gives in to anger).

1) To be fair, Yoda was only saying that Luke wasn't ready to face Vader because he was still too quick to anger. Obi-Wan and Yoda are both skeptical that Han and Leia's lives are actually at risk ("You don't know that [your friends will die]. Even Yoda cannot see their fate."), and saying that Luke is jumping too quickly to that conclusion and being too hasty in going after Vader. It's essentially the same thing that happened to Anakin; he assumed Padme would die if he didn't intervene, and so he intervened, inadvertently becoming the cause of her death. Yoda recognizes that this mentality makes people ripe for conversion to the dark side, and he's right - this is what nearly causes Luke to turn at the end of ROTJ.

2) Anger isn't the only reason someone can have for killing someone else. Mercy could be another reason; necessity could be yet another. Obi-Wan and Yoda certainly weren't advocating for the way Luke nearly dispatched Vader on Death Star II. As Luke is preparing to go to Bespin, they insist specifically (and repeatedly) that he must not give in to hate and must avoid the temptation of the dark side.

 

[Surfinn]

They can easily retcon this if they want to. It wouldn't be the first time Yoda is wrong about something. The dude literally wanted to let Han, Leia and co. die on Bespin (even though Leia is the "other" hope he talks about in the next film) and then he wanted Luke to kill his father (despite the fact that the Emperor would win if Luke gives in to anger).

In his defense, I think Luke's unique strength with the force/position in the galaxy and significance of his destiny was more than even Yoda had ever seen.

Had he not been a hero who succeeds in the face of incredible odds (will of the force), Yoda's advice would have been valid.

"Strong am I in the Force, but not that strong."

"Even Yoda cannot see their fate."

The OT recognizes that Yoda is not an all knowing/powerful being, but his basic principles and teachings allowed Luke to fulfill his destiny on the Hero's Path.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I mean it makes sense because Qui-Gon was the only Jedi who knew about it and taught it to Yoda and Kenobi after the prequels.

Thus wrapping around to Qui-Gon being the best Jedi ever

In terms of morality and coolness

 

[MogCakes]

Thus wrapping around to Qui-Gon being the best Jedi ever

In terms of morality and coolness

He was the Jedi dad we all deserve

 

[Kilrogg]

Can't the explanation just be that, when Obiwan died, he told Vader he would become more powerful than he could ever imagine? That + the fact that Vader had no clue what he was talking about, and that neither Palpatine or any other Sith in the movies has ever become a Force ghost, or even mentioned the notion, should be proof enough.

But then I'm one of those assholes for whom the only canon there is and ever will be is the movies. Not the EU, not the novels, not even the series (Clone Wars and Rebels) matter. Heck, I barely want to consider I II III canon given how much of a clusterfuck they are, but that's another matter altogether.

 

[Surfinn]

Can't the explanation just be that, when Obiwan died, he told Vader he would become more powerful than he could ever imagine? That + the fact that Vader had no clue what he was talking about, and that neither Palpatine or any other Sith in the movies has ever become a Force ghost, or even mentioned the notion, should be proof enough.

But then I'm one of those assholes for whom the only canon there is and ever will be is the movies. Not the EU, not the novels, not even the series (Clone Wars and Rebels) matter. Heck, I barely want to consider I II III canon given how much of a clusterfuck they are, but that's another matter altogether.

I would actually like the idea that the Sith strive for immortality while the Jedi hope to achieve what Obi-Wan and Yoda had become after their death.

Which is sort of what the whole Plagueis dialogue from EP3 was about.

Would be cool if that sort of immortality was idealized by Snoke before Plagueis/Emperor and that the dark side allows for this power.

It's cool mythology and metaphoric for what one is with the dark/light side, spiritually and morally.

 

[MogCakes]

Spiritual vs Physical, immortality of the spirit vs immortality of the flesh and blood. That's an interesting juxtaposition I hadn't previously considered about SW.

 

[sphagnum]

I would actually like the idea that the Sith strive for immortality while the Jedi hope to achieve what Obi-Wan and Yoda had become after their death.

Which is sort of what the whole Plagueis dialogue from EP3 was about.

Would be cool if that sort of immortality was idealized by Snoke before Plagueis/Emperor and that the dark side allows for this power.

It's cool mythology and metaphoric for what one is with the dark/light side, spiritually and morally.

That's essentially what it's been about since Ep III or at least since TCW canonized it. The Sith do not believe in life after death, so they strive to use the dark side to live forever. The Jedi (prior to Qui-Gon) also didn't believe in life after death but believed that death was just another natural part of life and that you should not mourn someone who returns to the Force; Qui-Gon, however, went further than the rest by committing himself to following the commands of the Living Force and so by letting go of his ego (kenosis) to become a pure instrument of the Force he was, ironically, allowed to maintain his identity after death as an agent of the Force. So by striving for (physical) life you die eternally but by letting go of your (physical) self you gain eternal life.

Qui-Gon's training wasn't complete, however, so he can only appear in the form of disembodied orbs rather than full-on Force ghost like Yoda and Obi-Wan.

 

[sphagnum]

I would actually like the idea that the Sith strive for immortality while the Jedi hope to achieve what Obi-Wan and Yoda had become after their death.

Which is sort of what the whole Plagueis dialogue from EP3 was about.

Would be cool if that sort of immortality was idealized by Snoke before Plagueis/Emperor and that the dark side allows for this power.

It's cool mythology and metaphoric for what one is with the dark/light side, spiritually and morally.

That's essentially what it's been about since Ep III or at least since TCW canonized it. The Sith do not believe in life after death, so they strive to use the dark side to live forever. The Jedi (prior to Qui-Gon) also didn't believe in life after death but believed that death was just another natural part of life and that you should not mourn someone who returns to the Force; Qui-Gon, however, went further than the rest by committing himself to following the commands of the Living Force and so by letting go of his ego (kenosis) to become a pure instrument of the Force he was, ironically, allowed to maintain his identity after death as an agent of the Force. So by striving for (physical) life you die eternally but by letting go of your self as an individual you gain eternal life. To live forever you have to not want it - your only desire must be to become a vessel for the will of the Force.

Qui-Gon's training wasn't complete, however, so he can only appear in the form of disembodied orbs rather than full-on Force ghost like Yoda and Obi-Wan.

 

[Daemul]

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_spirit

Hmm, whoever wrote this wiki page could have better explained things, they had 60 minutes of material to draw from.

To clear things up a bit, the path to becoming a Force Ghost is unknown to the Sith, Yoda outright says this, and it was also unknown to the Jedi as well until Qui-Gon found out about it, both groups thought that it was impossible for someone to retain their identity after death. The problem with the Sith is that they want to cling to the physical realm whilst the Jedi are willing to let it go, and the Sith have allowed themselves to be completely consumed by the Dark Side, when becoming a force Ghost requires one to accept their Dark Side but not let it control them (Yoda really struggled with this part).

So even if a Sith knew about the path to becoming a Force Ghost, unless he turned away from the everything that basically makes him a Sith, he won't be able to succeed in becoming a Force Ghost.

Also, the Force Priestesses(or Force Priestess as I should probably call her since Filoni in a Q&A hinted at the Priestesses once being a single person) achieved what Yoda and the rest did a long, long, long time ago, and as far as we know she was not a Jedi in her physical life, so a regular person could probably become a Force Ghost, though very hard since facing their dark side without any training would be brutal.

Spiritual vs Physical, immortality of the spirit vs immortality of the flesh and blood. That's an interesting juxtaposition I hadn't previously considered about SW.

Yeah, this is basically what it boils down to, except all the Sith are looking to extend their physical lives and only a handful of Jedi even know about becoming a Force Ghost. Yoda didn't even want to tell Mace Windu lol

 

[Liquidsnake]

So its the 19th of February, and no digital or blu ray release announced. Im hearing bad things like delayed to June, with a re release for April.

Im even hearing possible July release.

Does anyone know anything?

 

[usp84]

So i saw it today,late as usual, and it was good.A bit too much like Episode IV.I think the lightsaber duel(s) were much better than anything all the movies simply because there was not much "dancing" around just trying to hit the other saber.

But for someone who doesnt know much about star wars other than the movies, i was realy surprised about some things since i didnt know anything about it.

Han Solo's son is a bad guy plus he actually kills him in the end?WTF no way i expected something like this.

Also could Rey be the daughter of someone we know?

One thing i didn't like was why the hell would Luke just dissappear after Kylo Ren went to the dark side?I mean there is no reason


EDIT Something i forgot.Whos was the bearded man from the beginning?

 

[KevinG]

Apparently FYE employees are now earring name tags advertising April 5th as the release date.