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[Bernardougf]

FFX had the best turn based combat in the series. Go back to that and also drop the medieval settings/modern look and start using more fantasy settings with colorful characters and artstyles like older final fantasy games. They keep wanting to push realism like they did with ff15/ff16 and it's pure shit.

This.. all this.

 

[vodka-bull]

Of course they are, they'll most probably try to copy COE33, but they'll fail miserably doing so because they don't know what's the essence of it: not being made by a greedy AAA studio!

 

[Hudo]

Of course they are, they'll most probably try to copy COE33, but they'll fail miserably doing so because they don't know what's the essence of it: not being made by a greedy AAA studio!

I'd like to see Yoko Taro's take on the French. The center of the universe is a big fucking baguette sending out cute red heads.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

I would like a FF game with the FF12 systems in them again. But a real time battle in FF is not what I want.

This is not FF that I want.

That Final Fantasy also has cool stuff like this:



Or gameplay sequences like the Bahamut boss fight.

I know the game had its issues but when it was Final Fantasy, it REALLY was Final Fantasy

 

[AJUMP23]

That Final Fantasy also has cool stuff like this:



Or gameplay sequences like the Bahamut boss fight.

I know the game had its issues but when it was Final Fantasy, it REALLY was Final Fantasy

But if it doesn't have fun FF combat why bother.

 

[XERXES_89]

The funny thing is that -for all its differences- the cheaper, more praised, and multiplat Expedition 33 still hasn't outsold the hated, more expensive, and platform exclusive FFXVI.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Hybrid systems are the best.

I think with FF7 Rebirth they have the perfect system and that should be the blueprint for mainline FF.

If FF17 mimmicks E33 which is mimmicking/tinkering/enhancing the FF10 and Persona systems its all going to get very samey and sooner or later the market will be wanting something different when you have so many games releasing with similar combat.

For example: E33 follow up, Persona 6, Metaphor 2, FF17, DQ12 and about 10 other JRPGs...... would all have turnbased.

Rather than chase trends (which is why 16 is so hot/cold) they are better off ackowledging that a lot of fans love the FF7 Remake combat and it's the perfect inbetween and holds up as a fresh take to traditional JRPG combat whilst offering something new.

 

[Thabass]

Whatever Square Enix does turns to shit so them being aware of 33 means shit.

Octopath Traveler and Bravely Default and Final Fantasy XIV would like a word.

Also, their games have been good with great production quality, just because you don't like them doesn't mean they're "shit". So, get over yourself.

I think with FF7 Rebirth they have the perfect system and that should be the blueprint for mainline FF.

If FF17 mimmicks E33 which is mimmicking/tinkering/enhancing the FF10 and Persona systems its all going to get very samey and sooner or later the market will be wanting something different when you have so many games releasing with similar combat.

For example: E33 follow up, Persona 6, Metaphor 2, FF17, DQ12 and about 10 other JRPGs...... would all have turnbased.

Rather than chase trends (which is why 16 is so hot/cold) they are better off ackowledging that a lot of fans love the FF7 Remake combat and it's the perfect inbetween and holds up as a fresh take to traditional JRPG combat whilst offering something new.

Big agree, while I found FFXVI's system to be fun, it's not really what I want in the series going forward. I see the Hybrid system like Remake being the future of the series. And honestly, I think it was already done really well, so it will be interesting if they can find a way to evolve it and make it even more fun than it already is now.

They need things in the more mainstream genres. The issue for them is games like Forspoken or Foamstars flopping means gamers are more hesitant to try any new fare from them in the coming years and they have a mountain to climb.

You contradict yourself here a bit. Those games were Square's attempt to bring in more mainstream games into their ecosystem and both failed miserably. Forspoken had issues with it being bland and boring with a protagonist that no one wanted to like, and Foamstars was a lesser game than Splatoon. Those aren't the only games that they tried and failed either. I think the only one that they had that were massive successes (before they ruined them) were Deus Ex and Sleeping Dogs, games that were praised initially and then fizzled for one reason or another.

In my opinion, Square needs to return to the roots of their turn-based RPG for FINAL FANTASY. There is one constant that I hear all the time about the series is that people want turn-based combat for the series because that's how they identify that it's a Final Fantasy game. I think it's something that Square should explore. And they can't do it in some spinoff game. they have to do it for Final Fantasy XVII. Nothing else will suffice. Square should see how Clair Obscur has done and incorporate these things in games that have been popularized. Parrying and dodging are the big things right now. FFVII Rebirth is the perfect example of starting to go into this trend and I thought it was done very well. They need to focus this and make it work for a turn-based game just like Clair Obscur, though, I'm sure that Square will want to do something completely different than just doing what others are doing. But, then the cycle continues.

 

[Felessan]

Metaphor fasting selling atlus game
Yakuza like a dragon fastest/best selling yakuza game
Persona 5 >10M units
Divinity original sin 2 >7.5M units
BG3 >15M units

Elden ring is 30 mil copies. It took forever for P5 to sell that much and number of rereleases and Metaphor sold less than FF16
Market for action rpg is clearly bigger and SE needs to sell 5+ mil copies at launch to justify AAA budgets of mainline FF. 5+ mil at launch are very very high plank for turn based JRPG, given that Japan mostly abandoned ship and weebs stuff are of limited popularity in the west.

 

[lughnasadh123]

"They value the genre of command-based RPGs, and plan to continue delivering such games in the future."

 

[Sooner]

This literally says nothing new.

Turn-based RPGs are like half of their output already lol.

While true, they seem fearful to use it for a game with a large AAA budget and reserve it for smaller games like Bravely Default or Octopath Traveler.

Hopefully, Clair Obscur Expedition 33 and Like a Dragon convince them it is feasible for their largest budget franchises still.

 

[Felessan]

Hopefully, Clair Obscur Expedition 33 and Like a Dragon convince them it is feasible for their largest budget franchises still.

3 mil in 3 days was underperforming for FF16
Obscur did 3 mil in 33 days
You might expect what will be willingness of SE to allocate AAA budgets for turn-based games on such performance

Recent successes of turn-based doesn't really show anything new. AA turn-based games do have some success, even SE-made ones (octo 1+2 sold 5 mil). Does this success justify AAA budgets - hardly so, even the most acclaimed and hyped are nowhere near required sales target

 

[SamuraiEdge]

3 mil in 3 days was underperforming for FF16
Obscur did 3 mil in 33 days
You might expect what will be willingness of SE to allocate AAA budgets for turn-based games on such performance

Recent successes of turn-based doesn't really show anything new. AA turn-based games does have some success, even SE-made ones (octo 1+2 sold 5 mil). Does this success justify AAA budgets - hardly so, even the most acclaimed and hyped are nowhere near required sales target

I see Square giving it a go to try because of how things are going FF sales wise in units. Would be cool to see them go all in one time to see if they still have it.

 

[proandrad]

Going by SE track record with FF the next one won't be action or turn based, it will be a souls-like.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Elden ring is 30 mil copies. It took forever for P5 to sell that much and number of rereleases and Metaphor sold less than FF16
Market for action rpg is clearly bigger and SE needs to sell 5+ mil copies at launch to justify AAA budgets of mainline FF. 5+ mil at launch are very very high plank for turn based JRPG, given that Japan mostly abandoned ship and weebs stuff are of limited popularity in the west.

And Elden Ring even for souls was a surprise success. But what do you suggest here, that FF goes toward souls? Not even From software's next Souls game is guaranteed as much success as Elden Ring got.

Atlus doesn't have SE's marketing budget, or anything close to SE's budget of a mainline FF.

Thinking action is the path to huge success is why they keep failing and the franchise going into a downward spiral every iterations. The sales in Japan decline iteration to iteration since FF7.

Directors are dropping likes flies with these projects

Trying to get COD crowd mainstream and changing the entire reason of existence of a franchise's historic core mechanics will do that.

SE in the meantime

Maybe next time will be the right one

 

[KimDongHwan]

People just don't know SE has other games than just Final Fantasy (mainline Final Fantasy)

You all know we are talking high budget turn based RPG (such as FFX) and not Octopath Traveler

 

[Donald mac Ronald]

The combat system they made for rebirth is easily their best one of all time. It feels modern, while giving you that ATB feeling and control over your party. Also you can dodge if you want, block or perfect parry. I wish they would make this their stable system rather than change every time.

There's also room for coE33 turn based approach.

 

[SamuraiEdge]

The combat system they made for rebirth is easily their best one of all time. It feels modern, while giving you that ATB feeling and control over your party. Also you can dodge if you want, block or perfect parry. I wish they would make this their stable system rather than change every time.

There's also room for coE33 turn based approach.

I do want to see the FF7R team keep with the combat system they've made and have it in another title, but do want another team to take a crack going full on turn based. Best of all worlds.

 

[Felessan]

I see Square giving it a go to try because of how things are going FF sales wise in units. Would be cool to see them go all in one time to see if they still have it.

It's stupid
Your proposal on unit sales woes is to switch to a solution that selling even less units? No sane people would approve it.

Change FF16 combat to turn-based leaving everything else (equipment, spells, story pacing, early game side quests etc) in place - will game be significantly better? For sure no, core problems of FF16 are not it's combat.
So it's unlikely that it will sold more, but it's likely it would sell less as turn-based combat just boring.

 

[BennyBlanco]

The message they should receive is to get FF mainline to be turned based

Honestly I don't think they have the chops anymore. Nomura would have you traveling through time in an outfit with 400 zippers. Go look at the clusterfuck that is FFXV and ask yourself if good turn based combat would save it. Modern Square fuckin stinks. Their AA games are still good but even those don't have great writing IMO. But at least they're fun mechanically like Bravely 2

 

[SamuraiEdge]

It's stupid
Your proposal on unit sales woes is to switch to a solution that selling even less units? No sane people would approve it.

Change FF16 combat to turn-based leaving everything else (equipment, spells, story pacing, early game side quests etc) in place - will game be significantly better? For sure no, core problems of FF16 are not it's combat.
So it's unlikely that it will sold more, but it's likely it would sell less as turn-based combat just boring.

I don't know; turn-based FF titles of the past did way more than 7-10 million, and recent ones haven't even got to that (bar 15). If they can recapture the magic of another turn-based, high-fidelity experience in good quality and marketing, there is more of a shot there than when looking at how recent ones have done. One attempt if they have a team that wishes to make one of these with a strong idea should go for it.

 

[Felessan]

And Elden Ring even for souls was a surprise success. But what do you suggest here, that FF goes toward souls? Not even From software's next Souls game is guaranteed as much success as Elden Ring got.

And no one can guarantee that turn-based FF would reach even Atlus or Obscur level of sales. It would be very disappointing to sell 1 mil instead of 3 based on "we could be better than Atlus" (having zero to actually back it up)

Atlus doesn't have SE's marketing budget, or anything close to SE's budget of a mainline FF.

Atlus has a name, widely known "blablabla 10mil P5" and actually make a stable quality games that are acclaimed much higher than FF now. And still they can sell only as much.
SE even with budget and marketing will have a trust issue that their game is actually good as there were issues with that in last 3 SP entries, not related to combat system

Thinking action is the path to huge success is why they keep failing and the franchise going into a downward spiral every iterations. The sales in Japan decline iteration to iteration since FF7.

Series declined with 9 and 10 (turn-based ones) marked by overall shift to realtime, had some rebound at 12 (realtime one) and declined after that as local market shifted away.
And in last 10 years Japan console market simply dead. It's half alive on Nintendo side (though sales considerably dropped too) and the rest is completely dead and went to mobile. Current gen Japan's Final Fantasy is Granblue Fantasy which is based on FF, has a lot of staff from SE/FF teams and earns ~300 mil$ per year.

You all know we are talking high budget turn based RPG (such as FFX) and not Octopath Traveler

There are no proven market to justify AAA budgets for turn based game. No turn-based game selling numbers required

 

[Itchy Tickles]

The solution to making more than 3m sales is to make a game that managed to reach the same number in a much longer time span? That makes no sense from a fiscal pov.

I meant that if Square made a game with the budget of Clair Obscure and it sold 3 million they would be happy. It would've sold a lot quicker if it was a Square game with their name brand and ability to advertise and push things. This game had very little in terms of exposure and advertising apart from like 3 gaming events. Plus it was on Gamepass, so sales immediately took a massive hit (I know they get paid for Gamepass, but it still lowers the actual sale numbers overall)

 

[Felessan]

I don't know; turn-based FF titles of the past did way more than 7-10 million, and recent ones haven't even got to that (bar 15). If they can recapture the magic of another turn-based, high-fidelity experience in good quality and marketing, there is more of a shot there than when looking at how recent ones have done. One attempt if they have a team that wishes to make one of these with a strong idea should go for it.

4X games and RTS used to sell a lot. Not anymore.
Market has a tendency to change and what worked 30 years ago might be completely uninteresting to current age gamers

One attempt to vaste 200 mil is not something SE can allow itself, they are running on quite tight budgets. Not in danger but certainly no room for splurge on very questionable "maybe" projects

 

[laynelane]

I love modern / sci-fi setting.

Same. I also like the fantasy settings too. Just appreciate the variety in the series overall, keeps it interesting for me. Committing to just one setting type would become very tired, very fast.

 

[SamuraiEdge]

Same. I also like the fantasy settings too. Just appreciate the variety in the series overall, keeps it interesting for me. Committing to just one setting type would become very tired, very fast.

Not sure where these rumours come from originally, but I recall how 17 was aimed with sci-fi in mind and 16 being what that project was. This is going years back, and who knows how things happen over there, but I do find the idea of Square tackling space opera cool, and I know Tri Ace isn't around to give me this fix after so many times failing

 

[nikos]

I hope Square Enix isn't influenced by that game. I found it to be incredibly boring and somewhat tedious to play.

 

[StueyDuck]

like ffx remake..... please.....

 

[laynelane]

Not sure where these rumours come from originally, but I recall how 17 was aimed with sci-fi in mind and 16 being what that project was. This is going years back, and who knows how things happen over there, but I do find the idea of Square tackling space opera cool, and I know Tri Ace isn't around to give me this fix after so many times failing

It isn't what you meant, but your comment reminded me of ending up in space in FFVIII. It was a short segment that really surprised me back in the day.

 

[ungalo]

People sure love their "sleeping pill" games these days. I'm sure the next DQ will be a success.

This is why despite everything i like FF16, it was almost ballsy (not entirely when the game is so casual and also a slogfest but whatever) in this day and age, to piss off the RPG fans like that and just make some sort of action game for a mainline FF game.

 

[SamuraiEdge]

It isn't what you meant, but your comment reminded me of ending up in space in FFVIII. It was a short segment that really surprised me back in the day.

That was a very sweet moment in that game and know what you mean. Square doing a space opera FF scenario would be something and cool to see. One of the few things they've never tried going full on as of yet.