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Star exhibits strange light patterns which could be a sign of alien activity

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The concept of building a Dyson sphere doesn't make total sense to me. How could you possibly acquire enough material to make one?

And sorry if I missed it, but what's the rate of dimming? Surely if it's something being physically built, 100 years would make extremely little progress in obscuring a star.
 

bobbytkc

ADD New Gen Gamer
The concept of building a Dyson sphere doesn't make total sense to me. How could you possibly acquire enough material to make one?

And sorry if I missed it, but what's the rate of dimming? Surely if it's something being physically built, 100 years would make extremely little progress in obscuring a star.

Just mine the materials out of the asteroid belt I presume.
 

whipihguh

Banned
The concept of building a Dyson sphere doesn't make total sense to me. How could you possibly acquire enough material to make one?

And sorry if I missed it, but what's the rate of dimming? Surely if it's something being physically built, 100 years would make extremely little progress in obscuring a star.
With that level of engineering, you could probably mine entire planets, although who knows how long it'd take.

I love how mysterious this whole thing is. Even if it isn't aliens, it's one of the strangest things we've seen out in the cosmos.

...oh but I want it to be aliens so bad! It would be incredible!
 
With that level of engineering, you could probably mine entire planets, although who knows how long it'd take.

I love how mysterious this whole thing is. Even if it isn't aliens, it's one of the strangest things we've seen out in the cosmos.

...oh but I want it to be aliens so bad! It would be incredible!

If its aliens, we should hope the dont come nearby unless they want to jump start our technology :D
 

Dreez

Member
Could be a megatropolis around that sun... Different civilizations with their own resources parking around that sun over the years.

Lol
 
It would be great if they were similar to us but just with some really amazing engineers. here we are worshipping our iphones and mobile neogaf.. And they build a Dyson sphere.
 
It might be a Dyson Swarm and not a Sphere.

Also, if it is a Type II civilization they might have the ability to convert energy into matter and thus use the Dyson Sphere to build itself.
 
A species capable of building a Dyson sphere far surpasses us in technology and engineering.

To harness energy at that scale is a civilization that should be left alone imo.

I'm fine with SETI doing their best to capture possible radio signals from advanced alien civilizations, but disagree on Active SETI broadcasting our signals out there.

#teamscary

But surely at their level of technological ability they'd already be aware of our presence?
 

Skinpop

Member
The concept of building a Dyson sphere doesn't make total sense to me. How could you possibly acquire enough material to make one?

And sorry if I missed it, but what's the rate of dimming? Surely if it's something being physically built, 100 years would make extremely little progress in obscuring a star.

you wouldn't build a sphere. I don't even think it's physically possible to do so. it would collapse at the poles and no material is strong enough to hold together such a large structure.

Like dyson originally proposed, they'd build a swarm of satellites with the purpose of collecting solar energy. Building and harvesting materials is automated, for example we could use mercury for raw materials. The solar panels would be built using some thin nano-material and will only be a few grams per square meter.
Imagine such a swarm in mid construction. You'd have big gaps, and probably a slit to get light through to the planets lying on the orbital disk. That could easily produce the "triangle" shape. Not saying that's what it is, the point is that people should think about dyson swarms instead if sphere/shells which is just fantasy.

if construction is automated, which probably is the only way to build something of this scale then 100 years is more than enough.
 
Übermatik;192271520 said:
But surely at their level of technological ability they'd already be aware of our presence?

No because looking at them is looking 1480 years in the past, same for them towards us.

Right now, if they look at us, they will see the year ~536, which would be very early medieval.

There would be no radio emission to detect, no lights at night, no signals of any kind, only large-ish structures such as castles which would be most likely impossible to detect even for them.

However, they have most likely figured out that our planet is perfect for hosting life. And that could be a problem.
 

Bold One

Member
No because looking at them is looking 1480 years in the past, same for them towards us.

Right now, if they look at us, they will see the year ~536, which would be very early medieval.

There would be no radio emission to detect, no lights at night, no signals of any kind, only large-ish structures such as castles which would be most likely impossible to detect even for them.

However, they have most likely figured out that our planet is perfect for hosting life. And that could be a problem.
so what youre saying is that they are here already.....
 

velociraptor

Junior Member
No because looking at them is looking 1480 years in the past, same for them towards us.

Right now, if they look at us, they will see the year ~536, which would be very early medieval.

There would be no radio emission to detect, no lights at night, no signals of any kind, only large-ish structures such as castles which would be most likely impossible to detect even for them.

However, they have most likely figured out that our planet is perfect for hosting life. And that could be a problem.
Fuck me, that's a depressing thought.

I'm never going to see aliens in my life time.
 

gutshot

Member
Are there any actual pictures of the star in question? I think it would be fascinating to look at and imagine the possibilities.

.

KIC8462852_2x2_15oct2015.jpg
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
If they are looking for a new planet to populate, we could definitely see them, I doubt that's good news though.

We most likely wouldn't see "them". Most likely they wouldn't make the trip here to meet us if they were just going to take our planet and strip mine its valuable elements or were going to terraform it.

If they are advanced enough to make a Dyson sphere then they most likely have a mastery of nanotechnology. They'd most likely just send a swarm of AI controlled nano machines to our planet to kill us off and start terraforming or getting it ready to be mined. We most likely wouldn't see it coming and would be totally unable to stop this scenario once started, especially if they just go for a grey goo type scenario instead of sort of protracted war that movies tend to think will happen like Edge of Tomorrow.

Why would a super advanced race of aliens travel over a thousand light years to fight a war with what would be ants to them at best. Its like hiring a contractor to clear some land for you, level it out and landscape it and then build a house on it before you ever get there. You've seen the plans, you know what you want, and you give your directions to a "team" that doesn't think, doesnt argue, and feels nothing as it destroys billions of years worth of evolution and life.
 
We most likely wouldn't see "them". Most likely they wouldn't make the trip here to meet us if they were just going to take our planet and strip mine its valuable elements or were going to terraform it.

If they are advanced enough to make a Dyson sphere then they most likely have a mastery of nanotechnology. They'd most likely just send a swarm of AI controlled nano machines to our planet to kill us off and start terraforming or getting it ready to be mined. We most likely wouldn't see it coming and would be totally unable to stop this scenario once started, especially if they just go for a grey goo type scenario instead of sort of protracted war that movies tend to think will happen like Edge of Tomorrow.

Absolutely true.

We're fucked, and we'll never see it coming.

Edit: I'm still god damn excited about this.
 
No because looking at them is looking 1480 years in the past, same for them towards us.

Right now, if they look at us, they will see the year ~536, which would be very early medieval.

There would be no radio emission to detect, no lights at night, no signals of any kind, only large-ish structures such as castles which would be most likely impossible to detect even for them.

However, they have most likely figured out that our planet is perfect for hosting life. And that could be a problem.

Aye apologies, this was sort of what I was getting at - they're aware of our planet more than our human presence, which would surely spark enough interest for future contact.

This is really exciting nonetheless - I'm cautiously optimistic.
 

felipeko

Member
We most likely wouldn't see "them". Most likely they wouldn't make the trip here to meet us if they were just going to take our planet and strip mine its valuable elements or were going to terraform it.

If they are advanced enough to make a Dyson sphere then they most likely have a mastery of nanotechnology. They'd most likely just send a swarm of AI controlled nano machines to our planet to kill us off and start terraforming or getting it ready to be mined. We most likely wouldn't see it coming and would be totally unable to stop this scenario once started, especially if they just go for a grey goo type scenario instead of sort of protracted war that movies tend to think will happen like Edge of Tomorrow.
An civilization so avanced to build an Dyson Sphere would have no reason to come to our solar system to mine something, there's a lot of good elements scattered through the galaxy, our planet has nothing really worth the trip (if you are talking about resources). I would think we are still valuable as a case study as how language and knowledge evolves.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
An civilization so avanced to build an Dyson Sphere would have no reason to come to our solar system to mine something, there's a lot of good elements scattered through the galaxy, our planet has nothing really worth the trip (if you are talking about resources). I would think we are still valuable as a case study as how language and knowledge evolves.

This is assuming they want to strip mine our planet. If they are a similar enough species to us that they thrive on planets similar to ours i.e. liquid water oceans, a protective atmosphere, is located in the Goldilocks zone for "habitable" planets.

Those aren't too common so far as we know it and maybe they'd like ours to add to their list of inhabited planets.

So those nanomachines are blasted at us like an asteroid through space where they care not for the passage of time like we would. They enter our atmosphere, change it and the rest of the world to suit their creators needs and in the process eliminate us.
 
Übermatik;192271520 said:
But surely at their level of technological ability they'd already be aware of our presence?

DivineRage answered this pretty well.

Also, the speed of light may actually be a hard-limit. It is conceivable for us to build a Dyson sphere or swarm given advances in technology, but the same doesn't hold true for FTL. Our current laws of physics says no.

So even if they could detect us from far away it will still take a long time for them to get here. But I believe a civilization that can build megastructures in space has also conquered death.

Thousands or even millions of light years would mean nothing to them because they will eventually reach their destination.
 
I'd heard of the Dyson Sphere concept long ago, but I just learned some interesting things reading the Wikipedia article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_sphere#Dyson_shell

There are several serious theoretical difficulties with the solid shell variant of the Dyson sphere:

Such a shell would have no net gravitational interaction with its englobed star (see shell theorem), and could drift in relation to the central star. If such movements went uncorrected, they could eventually result in a collision between the sphere and the star—most likely with disastrous results. Such structures would need either some form of propulsion to counteract any drift, or some way to repel the surface of the sphere away from the star.

For the same reason, such a shell would have no net gravitational interaction with anything else inside it. The contents of any biosphere placed on the inner surface of a Dyson shell would not be attracted to the sphere's surface and would simply fall into the star. It has been proposed that a biosphere could be contained between two concentric spheres, placed on the interior of a rotating sphere (in which case, the force of artificial "gravity" is perpendicular to the axis of rotation, causing all matter placed on the interior of the sphere to pool around the equator, effectively rendering the sphere a Niven ring for purposes of habitation, but still fully effective as a radiant-energy collector) or placed on the outside of the sphere where it would be held in place by the star's gravity. In such cases, some form of illumination would have to be devised, or the sphere made at least partly transparent, because the star's light would otherwise be completely hidden.

Of course, the whole premise of the Dyson Sphere is that its builders would possess almost god-like technological powers, so I guess there's no little problem that can't be overcome.
 
DivineRage answered this pretty well.

Also, the speed of light may actually be a hard-limit. It is conceivable for us to build a Dyson sphere or swarm given advances in technology, but the same doesn't hold true for FTL. Our current laws of physics says no.

So even if they could detect us from far away it will still take a long time for them to get here. But I believe a civilization that can build megastructures in space has also conquered death.

Thousands or even millions of light years would mean nothing to them because they will eventually reach their destination.

If we assume the Dyson sphere/swarm/whatever is completed by now, they can most likely gather the energy required for a wormhole within a couple days at most.

They could literally be orbiting us in hours.
 

felipeko

Member
This is assuming they want to strip mine our planet. If they are a similar enough species to us that they thrive on planets similar to ours i.e. liquid water oceans, a protective atmosphere, is located in the Goldilocks zone for "habitable" planets.

Those aren't too common so far as we know it and maybe they'd like ours to add to their list of inhabited planets.

So those nanomachines are blasted at us like an asteroid through space where they care not for the passage of time like we would. They enter our atmosphere, change it and the rest of the world to suit their creators needs and in the process eliminate us.
If you have techonology to the point of doing this, you already have technology to upload your mind to a machine and you are not bound to many needs, aside from energy.
 
1. great bump.

2. I'm not saying it's aliens,

3. But if it is, how fucking amazing and scary would it be if the first time we detect intelligent life it might be a type-II civ? I don't know what you all grew up believing would happen with aliens but the popular portrayal has always been a species powerful enough to reach FTL speeds and it just kinda stopped there and went exploring. But a species capable of building a Dyson sphere?

That should stop everyone in their tracks for a long long time.

It certainly is fun to think about.
 

LogicStep

Member
So is this a different star from the one that was being talked about a while ago? They were saying it could be a Dyson sphere but it was found to just be asteroids or something.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
If you have techonology to the point of doing this, you already have technology to upload your mind to a machine and you are not bound to many needs, aside from energy.

This is again assuming they want to do this. Maybe they are a species that is biologically immortal or perhaps they're like ants or some kind of hive mind that doesn't care about its individual members.

Or maybe they have a hold up about converting their minds to machines because of some inherent evolutionary quirk or deeply rooted belief.
 
So is this a different star from the one that was being talked about a while ago? They were saying it could be a Dyson sphere but it was found to just be asteroids or something.

This is the same star, and a paper recently claimed that comets could not account for the century-long dimming.

Obviously the paper needs to be peer-reviewed, but so far it doesn't look good for the comet hypothesis.
 

gutshot

Member
What was the rate of dimming the past 100 years and if it continues at its current rate, how long until it "goes out"?

About 20%, according to the paper's author. Not sure about how long until it "goes out". It's still pretty bright, I'm sure, so probably quite a long while.
 

Par Score

Member
So is this a different star from the one that was being talked about a while ago? They were saying it could be a Dyson sphere but it was found to just be asteroids or something.

It's the same star, and nothing was "found", it was just that a massive swarm of comets seemed like the best of a bad bunch of theories (with "ZOMG aliens" somewhere further down the bad theory list) to explain the occasional extreme dimming.

This most recent discovery of evidence of longer-term dimming kinda puts the comet theory on ice, so some extremely smart people get to start scratching their heads again (and asking for some god damn giant telescope time).
 

gutshot

Member
Übermatik;192279324 said:
If we sent our direct contact now, how long would it take to reach the star?

The fastest space probe ever, NASA'S Juno Mission, traveled at 25 miles per second. At that speed it would take about 11,027,905 years to arrive at KIC 8462852.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
The fastest space probe ever, NASA'S Juno Mission, traveled at 25 miles per second. At that speed it would take about 11,027,905 years to arrive at KIC 8462852.

Well our radio transmissions and the like travel much faster than that though not light speed so they'd arrive well before that. Still a huge time to travel.
 

gutshot

Member
Well our radio transmissions and the like travel much faster than that though not light speed so they'd arrive well before that. Still a huge time to travel.

Radio waves are light waves and travel at the speed of light.

If we were to send a radio transmission to the star, as opposed to a probe, it would take 1480 years to get there. Of course, any sort of response would be another 1480 years wait, assuming they also communicate via light waves.
 

Unai

Member
We most likely wouldn't see "them". Most likely they wouldn't make the trip here to meet us if they were just going to take our planet and strip mine its valuable elements or were going to terraform it.

If they are advanced enough to make a Dyson sphere then they most likely have a mastery of nanotechnology. They'd most likely just send a swarm of AI controlled nano machines to our planet to kill us off and start terraforming or getting it ready to be mined. We most likely wouldn't see it coming and would be totally unable to stop this scenario once started, especially if they just go for a grey goo type scenario instead of sort of protracted war that movies tend to think will happen like Edge of Tomorrow.

Why would a super advanced race of aliens travel over a thousand light years to fight a war with what would be ants to them at best. Its like hiring a contractor to clear some land for you, level it out and landscape it and then build a house on it before you ever get there. You've seen the plans, you know what you want, and you give your directions to a "team" that doesn't think, doesnt argue, and feels nothing as it destroys billions of years worth of evolution and life.

Aren't most of the elements on Earth very common even in our solar system? I really can't see why someone would come from almost 1500 ly to mine. Well, our planet is in a nice area around our star, but I wouldn't think that would be enough of a reason.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
Aren't most of the elements on Earth very common even in our solar system? I really can't see why someone would come from almost 1500 ly to mine. Well, our planet is in a nice area around our star, but I wouldn't think that would be enough of a reason.

I don't honestly know enough about these topics to really properly field that answer but this also assumes these aliens think our planet is special.

Perhaps they just need as much raw material as possible are are just mining entire sections of the galaxy. Sort of how fishing boats use giant nexts to catch huge swaths of fish. Maybe our arm of the galaxy is one that is mined instead their own.
 
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