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[CrunchyFrog]

The star is 1,480 light years from Earth. If it is in fact a dyson sphere, it was built or under construction in 536 AD, around the time that Justinian was trying to reconquer the former Western Roman Empire from Constantinople.

It certainly seems more likely they would come to us than us go to them. The real question is what temperament do they visit with? Objective observers, intrusive probers, or parasitic scavengers? I'd have to think though, that any being with intelligence enough to develop interstellar travel would have to possess in some measure the same sort of intellectual curiosity as humanity which would make the warmongering invader scenario less likely.

 

[Obliterator]

I don't think this has anything to do with aliens but its still exciting as hell because we are potentially going to discover something brand new in the Universe.

 

[Ferr986]

that's the reason this finding is so big

we do know everything that is going on here - we know a star cannot exhibit that sort of dimming without an artificial superstructure revolving around it - as the article said, even a Jupiter-sized object would barely be a blip compared to this dimming.

yep, I don't care if its aliens or not because whatever it is (artificial or not) the phenomenon that makes this happens must be something incredible.

I don't think this has anything to do with aliens but its still exciting as hell because we are potentially going to discover something brand new in the Universe.

Yep!

It certainly seems more likely they would come to us than us go to them. The real question is what temperament do they visit with? Objective observers, intrusive probers, or parasitic scavengers? I'd have to think though, that any being with intelligence enough to develop interstellar travel would have to possess in some measure the same sort of intellectual curiosity as humanity which would make the warmongering invader scenario less likely.

I mean, if they're so advanced we are probably not the first living beings they have seen. I doubt any civilization this advanced would care about us.

 

[Himynameischris]

When it's not dim do we know what kind of sized star this is compared to our own sun?

It's an F-type star, so bigger/hotter than our own

 

[maquiladora]

What's taking them so long to get here?

This is the furthest extent that our earliest, weak, radio signals have travelled out into a tiny sliver of our galaxy.

Nobody knows we are here.

 

[Fenderputty]

more evidence in the "star's fucking weird" column:

http://arxiv.org/abs/1608.01316

The dream is alive! I love when this thread bumps.

 

[CrunchyFrog]

This is the furthest extent that our earliest, weak, radio signals have travelled out into a tiny sliver of our galaxy.

Nobody knows we are here.

Unless of course there exists a stable method for superluminal transport, communication, or observation.

I mean, if they're so advanced we are probably not the first living beings they have seen. I doubt any civilization this advanced would care about us.

This is why I always envision an interstellar zoologist/prime directive-type scenario, which oddly means that stories of alien abductions are more likely than anything else.

 

[HStallion]

It certainly seems more likely they would come to us than us go to them. The real question is what temperament do they visit with? Objective observers, intrusive probers, or parasitic scavengers? I'd have to think though, that any being with intelligence enough to develop interstellar travel would have to possess in some measure the same sort of intellectual curiosity as humanity which would make the warmongering invader scenario less likely.

If they can build a Dyson sphere or something of that level then I assume our planet and species has little to offer them. They can move asteroid belts and other planets far closer to them for resources and its not like our tech would impress them.

So they either show up out of curiosity or they are space Biff Tannins and are just coming by to bust our chops and give us a planet wide wedgie.

 

[gutshot]

It certainly seems more likely they would come to us than us go to them. The real question is what temperament do they visit with? Objective observers, intrusive probers, or parasitic scavengers? I'd have to think though, that any being with intelligence enough to develop interstellar travel would have to possess in some measure the same sort of intellectual curiosity as humanity which would make the warmongering invader scenario less likely.

Of course, even if they developed some way to get here in the blink of an eye, it is still going to be about 1,370 years from now that our first radio signals would reach them. Prior to that, what would make them want to come here?

 

[Kettch]

If we conclusively showed that it was an alien structure being built, I think it would only be positive for us. That's a lot of motivation to improve our own science/space programs.

 

[SiegfriedFM]

Dumb question: is it possible for a star to have a "moon" formed like ours, i e, something huge struck it once and a large piece flew off (and cooled down, presumably)?

 

[QuantumZebra]

It certainly seems more likely they would come to us than us go to them. The real question is what temperament do they visit with? Objective observers, intrusive probers, or parasitic scavengers? I'd have to think though, that any being with intelligence enough to develop interstellar travel would have to possess in some measure the same sort of intellectual curiosity as humanity which would make the warmongering invader scenario less likely.

Yep.

Any spacefaring race probably doesn't need to go around blowing shit up and taking over planets.

Dumb question: is it possible for a star to have a "moon" formed like ours, i e, something huge struck it once and a large piece flew off (and cooled down, presumably)?

A star is a gigantic ball of burning nuclear gas and radiation... you can't "Strike" it .... if an object hit a star the object would cease to exist.

As this graph also shows:

There is no planet that even comes close to this big - nothing in the universe except a star itself comes close

What if they are just jerks?

...

well then we're *absolutely* fucked

 

[Bit-Bit]

At this point, I don't even care if it's aliens or not. This is just exciting!

 

[BigDes]

Yep.

Any spacefaring race probably doesn't need to go around blowing shit up and taking over planets.

What if they are just jerks?

 

[Obliterator]

This is the furthest extent that our earliest, weak, radio signals have travelled out into a tiny sliver of our galaxy.

Nobody knows we are here.

Eh Fermi Paradox. There should be civilizations that existed before us whose signals are going through the galaxy. It is exceedingly bizarre the quietness of space

There is obviously some kind of life out there somewhere, but there seems to be some mechanism in the Universe holding back super advanced civs from springing up like crazy. I'm sure they exist but they must be unbelievably rare

 

[Clefargle]

Dumb question: is it possible for a star to have a "moon" formed like ours, i e, something huge struck it once and a large piece flew off (and cooled down, presumably)?

What like a brown dwarf?

 

[zethren]

Dumb question: is it possible for a star to have a "moon" formed like ours, i e, something huge struck it once and a large piece flew off (and cooled down, presumably)?

The obstruction would have to be massive, probably far more massive than any moon could be.

 

[Ferr986]

The obstruction would have to be massive, probably far more massive than any moon could be.

Obligatory

 

[PantherLotus]

Nonono

Dark matter would be detected in a different way and wouldn't (shouldn't) have any affect on the luminosity of a star.

This is also not "space gas" or a debris field as nothing of that nature could cause dips like this.

Its looking more and more like we're seeing something of this nature:

If I'm wrong feel free to point out



There is no way for a star to dim at certain angles/times in this way (its an all or nothing thing with stars - they wouldn't lose luminosity in random spots).

The problem with using this image to explain this phenomena is that one would expect dimming in regular patterns as the ring/sphere passes in front of the star.

Not to discount the theory. One could just say 'well how about a self-assembling dyson sphere with multple starting nodes completed at irregular intervals?'

 

[QuantumZebra]

Eh Fermi Paradox. There should be civilizations that existed before us whose signals are going through the galaxy. It is exceedingly bizarre the quietness of space

There is obviously some kind of life out there somewhere, but there seems to be some mechanism in the Universe holding back super advanced civs from springing up like crazy. I'm sure they exist but they must be unbelievably rare

That mechanism is called: the known universe is fucking GIGANTIC.

If you made it into an analogy (and even this scale is probably underrating the vastness of the difference), it would be like releasing 10 people in random spots across an abandoned African continent and expecting them to find each other.

 

[Himynameischris]

Dumb question: is it possible for a star to have a "moon" formed like ours, i e, something huge struck it once and a large piece flew off (and cooled down, presumably)?

A Type Ia supernova would be the closest thing but that's not what's happening here.

 

[Mr Swine]

Are we sure that the star is not having any odd fluctuations? I mean there is so much we don't know about star other than that they are very big and hot. Heck we still don't know how Black Holes are formed other than theories.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

If an alien civilization is building a Dyson sphere or swarm around what's presumably it's home star, wouldn't that imply that either this species is uninterested in interstellar travel, incapable of interstellar travel, or is possibly using the energy of a star to facilitate interstellar travel?


Though honestly unless the world they evolved on has similar gravity to Earth, a similar temperature, a simular chemical makeup, and a similar water to land ratio and that our form is the most efficient for high intelligence the chances are these aliens are an incomprehensible form with incomprehensible motivations for doing what they do.


It would be interesting if any alien life we find in the vicinity of our system is similar to us. Might prove the panspermia theory.

 

[Cimarron]

I always wondered if radio communications are short term communication technology for species. Imagine if one day we develop technology that is capable of detecting previously undiscovered signals and then BOOM we are flooded with all sorts of galactic chatter from other civilizations! Maybe they are communicating with us but we are not aware. Perhaps to them we are not worth the hassle to interact with until we reach a certain level of advancement.

 

[Obliterator]

That mechanism is called: the known universe is fucking GIGANTIC.

If you made it into an analogy (and even this scale is probably underrating the vastness of the difference), it would be like releasing 10 people in random spots across an abandoned African continent and expecting them to find each other.

Going by averages there should be multiple high level civilizations within our GALAXY not to mention the Universe. And yet, again the galaxy is silent (so far).

There are other high level civilizations. But they are ungodly rare

 

[Crisco]

I always wondered if radio communications are short term communication technology for species. Imagine if one day we develop technology that is capable of detecting previously undiscovered signals and then BOOM we are flooded with all sorts of galactic chatter from other civilizations! Maybe they are communicating with us but we are not aware. Perhaps to them we are not worth the hassle to interact with until we reach a certain level of advancement.

Hahah this is essentially the plot of Interstellar.

 

[PantherLotus]

Something more like this would explain the irregular dips in light:

 

[HStallion]

Going by averages there should be multiple high level civilizations within our GALAXY not to mention the Universe. And yet, again the galaxy is silent (so far).

There are other high level civilizations. But they are ungodly rare

Who said these supposed high level alien civilisations communicate in a manner we could pick up. For all we know a species that can travel than faster than light can communicate faster than the speed of light.

 

[Unai]

I mean, if they're so advanced we are probably not the first living beings they have seen. I doubt any civilization this advanced would care about us.

I don't know. We are not talking about beings from another galaxy after all. 1480 ly make them pratically our neighbors. I wouldn't be surprised if we are the first intelligent life that they find out of their solar system even if there are a hundred more advanced civilizations across the milkway. Sure, they could have found a lot of other beings already, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was not the case.

If they are aliens, of course.

 

[zethren]

The problem with using this image to explain this phenomena is that one would expect dimming in regular patterns as the ring/sphere passes in front of the star.

Not to discount the theory. One could just say 'well how about a self-assembling dyson sphere with multple starting nodes completed at irregular intervals?'

Or picture something like the image, but some of those circles are missing or damaged perhaps. As in the structure is not totally whole or symmetrically designed even.

 

[Cimarron]

Hahah this is essentially the plot of Interstellar.

LOL! Really?

 

[Fenderputty]

This is the furthest extent that our earliest, weak, radio signals have travelled out into a tiny sliver of our galaxy.

Nobody knows we are here.

This picture still doesn't seem accurate. The Milky Way is 100,000 light years across. We've been blasting radio signals for a little over 100 years? That's 1/1000th the actual diameter.

 

[BigDes]

I always wondered if radio communications are short term communication technology for species. Imagine if one day we develop technology that is capable of detecting previously undiscovered signals and then BOOM we are flooded with all sorts of galactic chatter from other civilizations! Maybe they are communicating with us but we are not aware. Perhaps to them we are not worth the hassle to interact with until we reach a certain level of advancement.

This is actually a theory (small t) conjectured by some scientists.

The amount of er radio 'pollution' that Earth is kicking out has actually fallen in relative terms over the past few years as we move to other technologies like fiber optics etc. THis bizarrely makes us harder to be detected.

 

[maquiladora]

Eh Fermi Paradox. There should be civilizations that existed before us whose signals are going through the galaxy. It is exceedingly bizarre the quietness of space

The SETI institute's search of the sky for possible radio signals so far amounts to a teacup of water scooped from an ocean. And keep in mind that they are only searching along a narrow band of the spectrum for signals using the limitations of current technology with private funding. Plus, the radio telescopes they use are only capable of picking up what would essentially be a very strong radio signal aimed directly at us. So we will need to be very very lucky to find evidence of a signal any time soon even if there were numerous advanced civilizations out there in the past.

 

[QuantumZebra]

Going by averages there should be multiple high level civilizations within our GALAXY not to mention the Universe. And yet, again the galaxy is silent (so far).

There are other high level civilizations. But they are ungodly rare

Well, yea, definitely.

The odds of Earth-like planets and civilizations are <1%, even smaller, likely.

The odds of those civilizations being able to contact each other, even lower.

 

[Obliterator]

Who said these supposed high level alien civilisations communicate in a manner we could pick up. For all we know a species that can travel than faster than light can communicate faster than the speed of light.

Its possible. Its also possible that you have to have damn near perfect circumstances to get to even the low level we are at

1st you have to have the organism actually develop higher intelligence for evolutionary purposes. This isn't always the case. Crocodiles aren't getting smarter, they don't need it for their environment. MOST organisms don't need to evolve high level intelligence

2nd you have to have that species not get wiped out by a huge multitude of natural disasters. No asteroid impacts, mega volcano, nearby supernova, etc etc etc

3rd you have to have that species when it discovers hugely powerful weapons and technology to not destroy themselves through war, or depleting their planet of resources

I just think the deck is massively stacked against high level civs. It takes so many lucky factors for it to even happen. Hell something as simple as Jupiter not being in our solar system and human life may have never even evolved.

Well, yea, definitely.

The odds of Earth-like planets and civilizations are <1%, even smaller, likely.

The odds of those civilizations being able to contact each other, even lower.

Yep, its just super low odds

 

[jem0208]

I always wondered if radio communications are short term communication technology for species. Imagine if one day we develop technology that is capable of detecting previously undiscovered signals and then BOOM we are flooded with all sorts of galactic chatter from other civilizations! Maybe they are communicating with us but we are not aware. Perhaps to them we are not worth the hassle to interact with until we reach a certain level of advancement.

This could very well be true.

Relative to a race capable of building a Dyson sphere we are incredibly basic technology wise. I mean our most common form of transport is metal boxes powered by mini explosions...

Its possible. Its also possible that you have to have damn near perfect circumstances to get to even the low level we are at

1st you have to have the organism actually develop higher intelligence for evolutionary purposes. This isn't always the case. Crocodiles aren't getting smarter, they don't need it for their environment. MOST organisms don't need to evolve high level intelligence

2nd you have to have that species not get wiped out by a huge multitude of natural disasters. No asteroid impacts, mega volcano, nearby supernova, etc etc etc

3rd you have to have that species when it discovers hugely powerful weapons and technology to not destroy themselves through war, or depleting their planet of resources

I just think the deck is massively stacked against high level civs. It takes so many lucky factors for it to even happen. Hell something as simple as Jupiter not being in our solar system and human life may have never even evolved.



Yep, its just super low odds

Whilst this is very true there are just so many stars and planets out there that it’s more likely there are many intelligent species than not.

 

[QuantumZebra]

Something more like this would explain the irregular dips in light:

....and we have actually hit a point where this is the most plausible explanation we've got.


This is fucking insane, yall.

I don't know. We are not talking about beings from another galaxy after all. 1480 ly make them pratically our neighbors. I wouldn't be surprised if we are the first intelligent life that they find out of their solar system even if there are a hundred more advanced civilizations across the milkway. Sure, they could have found a lot of other beings already, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was not the case.

If they are aliens, of course.

Yup. 1500LY is practically down the street in galactic terms.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

the idea that a civiliation capable of building a dyson ring or partial sphere giving a shit about us enough to visit our planet and kill us is kinda laughable.

If you have the resources for a dyson type object around a sun, you dont need timit your species survival to habital planets.

 

[HTupolev]

Are we sure that the star is not having any odd fluctuations?

No. We're not really sure about any of it.

However, no single proposed explanation for the changes in flux seems to account for the entirety of what we're seeing the star do. So for instance, in the paper they address the possibility that we're seeing a polar sunspot; it could explain the long-term reduction in flux, but not the short-term dips.

This doesn't imply that a natural explanation doesn't exist. But, even if it's not "aliens!", we'll probably learn something new and interesting!

 

[PantherLotus]

(what if the irregular nature of the dips in light are from a damaged / crippled dyson sphere?)

(like we're all 'Oo I bet they're in the middle of building it!' but no, it's actually a long-dead type IV who through some malady was destroyed and what we're seeing is only the remnants of their former super structure?)

(which would explain both the irregularity of the light intervals and the reason we're not seeing the accompanying dust that would come from comets or exploded planets)

 

[QuantumZebra]

Its possible. Its also possible that you have to have damn near perfect circumstances to get to even the low level we are at

1st you have to have the organism actually develop higher intelligence for evolutionary purposes. This isn't always the case. Crocodiles aren't getting smarter, they don't need it for their environment. MOST organisms don't need to evolve high level intelligence

2nd you have to have that species not get wiped out by a huge multitude of natural disasters. No asteroid impacts, mega volcano, nearby supernova, etc etc etc

3rd you have to have that species when it discovers hugely powerful weapons and technology to not destroy themselves through war, or depleting their planet of resources

I just think the deck is massively stacked against high level civs. It takes so many lucky factors for it to even happen. Hell something as simple as Jupiter not being in our solar system and human life may have never even evolved.



Yep, its just super low odds

Exactly.

That's what makes this finding completely nuts...we're looking at 51% odds that we just found a Dyson Swarm around a star... my god

the idea that a civiliation capable of building a dyson ring or partial sphere giving a shit about us enough to visit our planet and kill us is kinda laughable.

If you have the resources for a dyson type object around a sun, you dont need timit your species survival to habital planets.

Yea - they 99% likely dont give a shit about us, and probably know we are here (the pyramids and great wall are older than 1500 yrs and are visible from space).

(what if the irregular nature of the dips in light are from a damaged / crippled dyson sphere?)

(like we're all 'Oo I bet they're in the middle of building it!' but no, it's actually a long-dead type IV who through some malady was destroyed and what we're seeing is only the remnants of their former super structure?)

(which would explain both the irregularity of the light intervals and the reason we're not seeing the accompanying dust that would come from comets or exploded planets)

This graphic you posted:

Is by far the most plausible explanation / design for the type of dimming that is being seen (massive >20% drops in luminosity over a year or so and then back to normal).

 

[Inquisitive_Ghost]

It would be interesting if any alien life we find in the vicinity of our system is similar to us. Might prove the panspermia theory.

"Similar" in the sense of the fundamental structure of DNA being similar with four base pairs, etc., maybe. If you seeded two planets with the same microorganisms and both eventually developed intelligent life, those two species would still look completely different due to evolution.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Exactly.

That's what makes this finding completely nuts...we're looking at 51% odds that we just found a Dyson Swarm around a star... my god



Yea - they 99% likely dont give a shit about us, and probably know we are here (the pyramids and great wall are older than 1500 yrs and are visible from space).



This graphic you posted:



Is by far the most plausible explanation / design for the type of dimming that is being seen (massive >20% drops in luminosity over a year or so and then back to normal).

Can you imagine how much it would suck if we were the first?

"Similar" in the sense of the fundamental structure of DNA being similar with four base pairs, etc., maybe. If you seeded two planets with the same microorganisms and both eventually developed intelligent life, those two species would still look completely different due to evolution.

Maybe. Maybe not though. If conditions were the same and a similar cycle of evolution happened, convergent evolution suggests the evolutionary solutions to problems tend to trend similar form for similar function.

 

[Htown]

wouldn't it kind of depressing if we finally found evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence...

and then nothing ever fucking happened because the universe is too big and the distances and times involved make anything other than "huh, I guess there was somebody out there" essentially impossible?

 

[maquiladora]

This picture still doesn't seem accurate. The Milky Way is 100,000 light years across. We've been blasting radio signals for a little over 100 years? That's 1/1000th the actual diameter.

I found the image on the Planetary Society blog here. What do you find inaccurate about it?

http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2012/3390.html

 

[Fenderputty]

Realistically, all we'll be able to do is prove that it's not caused by a known natural phenomenon.

What else can we really do?

I found the image on the Planetary Society blog here. What do you find inaccurate about it?

http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2012/3390.html

The scale of the image. We've been blasting radio signal into space for a little over 100 years. Our galaxy is 100,000 light years across. That square should be a chunk that's 1/1000th the size of the diameter of the galaxy in that image. That square is more like 1/8th the diameter in that image. We've not come close to reaching what that image implies.

 

[PantherLotus]

wouldn't it kind of depressing if we finally found evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence...

and then nothing fucking happened because the universe is too big and the distances and times involved make anything other than "huh, I guess there was somebody out there" essentially impossible?

i figured most people projecting how first evidence will play out predict exactly this. 'oh cool, evidence. too bad it's from 10k years ago.'

 

[Obliterator]

Can you imagine how much it would suck if we were the first?

Someone somewhere had to be. I don't think we are but that has always been a kind of trippy thought, is what if we really are the first batch of cells to actually get this far. At some point some species in the Universe really was the 1st to get there. Kind of a crazy thing to think about

 

[QuantumZebra]

wouldn't it kind of depressing if we finally found evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence...

and then nothing ever fucking happened because the universe is too big and the distances and times involved make anything other than "huh, I guess there was somebody out there" essentially impossible?

Well, that's pretty much where we're at.

I don't think its depressing personally... because HOLY FUCK YALL THIS IS NUTS.

Buuut I could see how its depressing that we wont have a "Mass Effect" or "Star Trek" deal going on anytime soon.

*However*

If we find a way to create a Quantum/Warp Drive... (Connecting points A and B instead of traveling from A to B)... this could all turn into a reality very quickly.