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[Mikey Jr.]

Using a giant unnatural shape to block off light seems like a pretty good way to communicate

Clearly, as we still have no idea if it is natural or deliberate.

 

[Yagharek]

Clearly, as we still have no idea if it is natural or deliberate.

It's only recently been observed and you really want to rule out everything if you are going to claim it's aliens. That's because our rationale needs to be one of skepticism otherwise we'd be sending messages back to pulsars to contact the LGM.

 

[Badlucktroll]

Something more like this would explain the irregular dips in light:

:O

Thats what it looks like isnt it.

 

[HStallion]

I should also mention that a Dyson sphere/ring/structure would most likely be the new home of said species. Not that they have to abandon their home planet but they could live on the backside of the Dyson structure while the other side absorbs the sun's power. Basically like the reverse of the Halo rings.

 

[Wolfe]

1. It depends on where in the sequence the message is (if it is deliberate)
2. It depends on what the tempo of the sequence is.

Let's assume the message is caused by large occulting structures. If they're too close to the sun and (as we have observed) effective at blocking a large fraction of radiation, would you risk cutting off sunlight at home for a few days?

If the structures are large and further out in the orbit in an array to ensure observers in all directions might see it, then it could naturally be a long time between occultation events because of orbital distances involved.

Signalling '1234' would require a more directed approach as to where the blocked light is going to be directed. Which would limit the potential number of observers.



Or this.

It's really not a good system for communication though due to the constraints of light speed. What would be the point in a message using a star when the earliest anyone will see it is thousands of years (and assuming they're looking in the right spot).

Now a beacon of sorts, or a type of signal/warning device, like a galactic light house I could possibly see.

 

[Crisco]

.

 

[Leeroy3101]

Seems like we'll get an answer to the substance of the material rather sooner than later.

Observations are already in progress at the Las Cumbres Observatory Global Telescope Network, and the Kickstarter funds will take us deep into 2017. For more on the Las Cumbres work, see Corey Powell’s recent interview with Boyajian for Discover Magazine, from which this:

From our new observations, we’ll be able to tell a lot about the material that’s passing in front of the star: if it’s some kind of dusty thing, some kind of solid thing. [Boyajian’s working hypothesis is that the dimming is caused by a huge swarm of comets, set loose perhaps by some cataclysmic event around the star.] What’s also important is that we will also get a baseline of spectral observations so we can look at if there’s any radial velocity shift or if there’s any variable emission of the lines, things we’d expect comets to have.

http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=36081

I recommend reading the full article.

Exciting times we live in.

 

[Stinkles]

If they have memes, it could be Dank Matter.

 

[Yagharek]

It's really not a good system for communication though due to the constraints of light speed. What would be the point in a message using a star when the earliest anyone will see it is thousands of years (and assuming they're looking in the right spot).

Now a beacon of sorts, or a type of signal/warning device, like a galactic light house I could possibly see.

What is a faster method, pray tell?

If light speed is indeed a hard limit for the universe, then a passive occulting configuration of things (TM) is perhaps the most efficient and effective way of 'communicating'. Or perhaps the occultation is simply a consequence of a civilisation building things they can't prevent that from casting shadows.

(Assuming there isn't a natural explanation for the observations)

 

[Killer Queen]

If they have memes, it could be Dank Matter.

:O

Thats what it looks like isnt it.

Viral marketing for Halo 6 starting early huh?

 

[∀ Narayan]

:O

Thats what it looks like isnt it.

Say that this scenario is closer to reality than we think: That a species that has been in existence just about as long as us is creating a Dyson sphere. What does that say about us? Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

 

[chicko1983]

where does one get sufficient amount of material to make a dyson sphere or swarm?

I mean, if an intelligent race started on a planet orbiting a star, that would be smaller than the star, what are they using for material to make the panels?

 

[HStallion]

where does one get sufficient amount of material to make a dyson sphere or swarm?

I mean, if an intelligent race started on a planet orbiting a star, that would be smaller than the star, what are they using for material to make the panels?

If they have an asteroid belt I'm assuming that. Maybe strip mining entire planets from their solar system that they never particularly liked.

 

[Mik2121]

If they have an asteroid belt I'm assuming that. Maybe strip mining entire planets from their solar system that they never particularly liked.

We could do the same with Pluto. I mean, that thing isn't even a planet.

 

[Killer Queen]

We could do the same with Pluto. I mean, that thing isn't even a planet.

Would anything bad happen if we removed maybe every other rocky planet in the solar system except mars. Like just mined them till they're nothing. They're not particularly useful to us currently

 

[Stinkles]

Viral marketing for Halo 6 starting early huh?

Literally six halos in that image too

 

[bloodforge]

where does one get sufficient amount of material to make a dyson sphere or swarm?

I mean, if an intelligent race started on a planet orbiting a star, that would be smaller than the star, what are they using for material to make the panels?

Everything else in the system. Asteroid belts, planets(including their home plane)t/moons, basically every material they could use.

 

[Ether_Snake]

If a star was used as a communication device I would assume rhey could somehow control how much light it emits rather than build a structure around it. Are we even 100% certain it's a star?

 

[neurosisxeno]

where does one get sufficient amount of material to make a dyson sphere or swarm?

I mean, if an intelligent race started on a planet orbiting a star, that would be smaller than the star, what are they using for material to make the panels?

That's why Dyson Spheres\Swarms are such an achievement--they would need access to materials across multiple star systems and that means access to FTL travel almost certainly. Or I suppose a willingness to strip mine every planet except the one your civilization lives on.

 

[HStallion]

Would anything bad happen if we removed maybe every other rocky planet in the solar system except mars. Like just mined them till they're nothing. They're not particularly useful to us currently

Venus might be the actual better planet to try and colonize. Apparently it'd be a good place for cloud cities.

 

[Killer Queen]

Literally six halos in that image too

343's attention to detail this time around is astounding. But I guess that wraps up the mystery of this planet. We found the forerunners guys.

 

[Stinkles]

That's why Dyson SpheresSwarms are such an achievement--they would need access to materials across multiple star systems and that means access to FTL travel almost certainly. Or I suppose a willingness to strip mine every planet except the one your civilization lives on.

Dyson spheres and rings are supposed to be latticed rather than solid surfaces and there is more than enough raw asteroid material in our solar system to make a thin web of that.

The point is to capture energy at very high efficiency. Obviously a solid sphere could capture 100% of radiated energy but it's not necessary and a lattice could allow other objects to remain safely in the system like a home planet for example.

 

[Killer Queen]

Venus might be the actual better planet to try and colonize. Apparently it'd be a good place for cloud cities.

We

Spoiler

(re gunna be)

star wars now huh?

 

[Mikey Jr.]

It's only recently been observed and you really want to rule out everything if you are going to claim it's aliens. That's because our rationale needs to be one of skepticism otherwise we'd be sending messages back to pulsars to contact the LGM.

That's what I'm saying though.

If it is being used as some sort of beacon, it's a terrible one. Rather than doing something predictable and leaves no room for interpretation, it's random.

Hence why I said it's not being used for communication at least. I ruled that out.

 

[chicko1983]

That's what I'm saying though.

If it is being used as some sort of beacon, it's a terrible one. Rather than doing something predictable and leaves no room for interpretation, it's random.

Hence why I said it's not being used for communication at least. I ruled that out.

Could still be building it and its not yet sending a message.

If they only had "as fast as light" travel it may take them a long time to collect sufficient material to make the swarm or sphere.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

That's what I'm saying though.

If it is being used as some sort of beacon, it's a terrible one. Rather than doing something predictable and leaves no room for interpretation, it's random.

Hence why I said it's not being used for communication at least. I ruled that out.

The objective of this kind of communication could be to achieve just one thing:

-Let other intelligent beings know that they are not alone.

That's it. Heck you probably, arguably, don't even want to communicate anything else because you don't know who you might be communicating with.

Dimming a star, in a manner that suggests deliberation, is great way to do this. You are technically communicating at the speed of light, it's the fastest anything can go. You would also potentially be communicating with multiple potential recipients at the same time.

 

[Taramoor]

The objective of this kind of communication could be to achieve just one thing:

-Let other intelligent beings know that they are not alone.

That's it. Heck you probably, arguably, don't even want to communicate anything else because you don't know who you might be communicating with.

Dimming a star, in a manner that suggests deliberation, is great way to do this. You are technically communicating at the speed of light, it's the fastest anything can go. You would also potentially be communicating with multiple potential recipients at the same time.

If (huuuuge IF) it's aliens, this is my thinking.

There is no message simpler or more important than "We were here".

 

[Akira]

It's kind of crazy that a higher civilization can be detected first by a lower civilization because of the sheer scale of what they've accomplished and built. While they probably have no idea we're even here in this planet, potentially watching them.

 

[TheSecondSpitter]

The objective of this kind of communication could be to achieve just one thing:

-Let other intelligent beings know that they are not alone.

If (huuuuge IF) it's aliens, this is my thinking.

There is no message simpler or more important than "We were here".

Gee, that's a lot of effort for absolutely no gain to them.

 

[Teknoman]

It's kind of crazy that a higher civilization can be detected first by a lower civilization because of the sheer scale of what they've accomplished and built. While they probably have no idea we're even here in this planet, potentially watching them.

Well honestly thats like...having a mouse in your house? The mouse probably saw you long before you even notice evidence that it exists in the same living space.

 

[maquiladora]

It's kind of crazy that a higher civilization can be detected first by a lower civilization because of the sheer scale of what they've accomplished and built. While they probably have no idea we're even here in this planet, potentially watching them.

They would have no idea that we are watching them because if they somehow had a powerful enough telescope to observe what was happening on Earth right now then what would they would be looking at would be life during the 6th century, not 2016.

 

[Yagharek]

That's what I'm saying though.

If it is being used as some sort of beacon, it's a terrible one. Rather than doing something predictable and leaves no room for interpretation, it's random.

Hence why I said it's not being used for communication at least. I ruled that out.

You haven't ruled it out becuase we dont know if it is periodic or random or deliberate due to the brevity of observations.

In fact, by virtue of it being there at all could be a simple statement of "We're here!" and it doesn't need to repeat and be decodable. It just has to be observable.

 

[Nemesis121]

They would have no idea that we are watching them because if they somehow had a powerful enough telescope to observe what was happening on Earth right now then what would they would be looking at would be life during the 6th century, not 2016.

and what if our science is very primitive compared to what they can do, and they see 2016, from that distance, and wants nothing to do with this shitty planet.

 

[NsirhC]

Gosh I hope I get to meet an alien in my lifetime.

That'd be dope.

 

[DarthWoo]

That's why Dyson Spheres\Swarms are such an achievement--they would need access to materials across multiple star systems and that means access to FTL travel almost certainly. Or I suppose a willingness to strip mine every planet except the one your civilization lives on.

According to Dyson's calculations, our own solar system contained enough matter to create a shell at least 3m thick, although that counted some unusable materials like the gases of the gas giants. Making just a partial shell or a swarm of panels would require considerably less, and it's not improbable that some other systems have more raw materials than this one.

Say that this scenario is closer to reality than we think: That a species that has been in existence just about as long as us is creating a Dyson sphere. What does that say about us? Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Why would they have to have been around just about as long as us? On a cosmic scale, a few hundred thousand extra years would be trivial, but to an intelligent species, that could be sufficient time for technology to advance to seemingly magical levels.

 

[Lovely Salsa]

Couldnt it be a planet forming around the star? Or something like 2 planets coliding, sorta like our moon was created

 

[Omni]

Gosh I hope I get to meet an alien in my lifetime.

That'd be dope.

Even if aliens were to show up, it's really depressing to think that Humanity isn't nearly ready for something like that. We're still shortsighted morons who constantly kill ourselves on a daily basis because of the colour of our skin, all while destroying the planet we're on and every other species that occupies it. We value material objects more than life.

Can you imagine what we'd do to a visitor.

 

[Unai]

Couldnt it be a planet forming around the star? Or something like 2 planets coliding, sorta like our moon was created

No, that was one of the first things ruled out. Even a planet the size of Jupiter wouldn't be enough no dim the star that much and due to how gravity works it's impossible that a planet, say, 100 times the size of Jupiter, would exist.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

I'll be watching Contact today.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Even if aliens were to show up, it's really depressing to think that Humanity isn't nearly ready for something like that. We're still shortsighted morons who constantly kill ourselves on a daily basis because of the colour of our skin, all while destroying the planet we're on and every other species that occupies it. We value material objects more than life.

Can you imagine what we'd do to a visitor.

Maybe our perspective would broaden and we'd gain a different appreciation for life.

No, that was one of the first things ruled out. Even a planet the size of Jupiter wouldn't be enough no dim the star that much and due to how gravity works it's impossible that a planet, say, 100 times the size of Jupiter, would exist.

What if the debri surrounding the star (if it is that) resulted from the formation of that solar system, and instead of forming into planets as it did with ours (or most) it just fell into a specific orbit?

 

[Nostremitus]

Edit: Never mind... Couldn't get the image to display...

 

[DedValve]

Even if aliens were to show up, it's really depressing to think that Humanity isn't nearly ready for something like that. We're still shortsighted morons who constantly kill ourselves on a daily basis because of the colour of our skin, all while destroying the planet we're on and every other species that occupies it. We value material objects more than life.

Can you imagine what we'd do to a visitor.

Literally nothing. A visitor that has the power to reach us would be so incomprehensibly evolved we would be lucky to even recognize its existence. Or they just got lucky with some weird space shit and winded up here through luck like a wormhole or something. And would still end up far superior to us.

 

[TheOMan]

and what if our science is very primitive compared to what they can do, and they see 2016, from that distance, and wants nothing to do with this shitty planet.

They'd be waiting about 1500 years to see 2016.

 

[Ferr986]

Probably a stupid question but wouldn't a Dyson Sphere just melt that close to a star?

 

[Crow Pudding]

I think you build your impressive Dyson sphere or swarm at the perfect distance from your Sun so you can either gather energy and not melting in the process.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Probably a stupid question but wouldn't a Dyson Sphere just melt that close to a star?

Those images are a bit deceiving. Any Dyson structure would be built in the Habitable Zone of its star. So about at the radius at which the Earth orbits for a similar star.

 

[Ferr986]

Those images are a bit deceiving. Any Dyson structure would be built in the Habitable Zone of its star. So about at the radius at which the Earth orbits for a similar star.

Makes sense, for some reason seeing all of those pics I had the idea that you would need to make the sphere close to the star to gather all the energy, but considering how much energy a star can emit you probably don't neet it to be really close (we can already do it from here).

 

[eot]

What is a faster method, pray tell?

If light speed is indeed a hard limit for the universe, then a passive occulting configuration of things (TM) is perhaps the most efficient and effective way of 'communicating'. Or perhaps the occultation is simply a consequence of a civilisation building things they can't prevent that from casting shadows.

(Assuming there isn't a natural explanation for the observations)

Occulting an entire star is energy inefficient.
Using gravitational lensing of radio waves you can decrease the amount of power needed for radio communication several orders of magnitude.

Makes sense, for some reason seeing all of those pics I had the idea that you would need to make the sphere close to the star to gather all the energy, but considering how much energy a star can emit you probably don't neet it to be really close (we can already do it from here).

The distance doesn't affect how much energy you can gather.

 

[Prax]

Why do we all discount that perhaps it is just a vanity project for ultra-rich aliens with resources to blow? lol
Maybe they just build crap like humans build crap: to look and feel good about themselves.

Maybe this is the Trump of aliens.

btw I love that it might be a Dyson swarm or some other cool structure. Maybe even a a natural megaformation of a physical matrix. Who knows. But if it's aliens and if it's anything like human in psychology, it could be made for any stupid reason. An alien's artistic thesis project gone wild.

 

[TheSecondSpitter]

This thread has gone from science to science fiction to science fantasy in a short space of time.