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Star exhibits strange light patterns which could be a sign of alien activity
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Imperfected
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∀ Narayan;212716428 said:
I... wonder why you would assume that, in an impossibly vast universe over thirteen billion years in age, that any other species would be even remotely contemporary with our own on a developmental timescale.
I mean, any subset of an effectively infinite number and all that, but when we're talking about one specific hypothetical species the odds they developed at the same time and the same rate as our own is hilariously infinitesimal. You realize that, right?
chromatic9
Member
Is any kind of very active solar system ruled out? I keep reading Jupiter type situation is ruled out but what if a couple of rocky planets have collided, there's two or three gas giants amongst the chaos and other types of asteroid belts forming. I can see lots of irregular orbits, things being shot out and coming back causing strange dimming patterns. Can't help but think we're just observing something very active and rare so we don't really have any precedent hence dyson spheres?
if it is another civilization I'd think they at least know we're a potential life populated planet with all the signatures living organisms almost guaranteed.
if it is another civilization I'd think they at least know we're a potential life populated planet with all the signatures living organisms almost guaranteed.
Askherserenity
Member
Was it? Do you know the reason why it was discarded?
SuperBanana
Banned
Curiously, what makes it seem like a Dyson sphere with the strange readings? How could one make a star dim like that?
cyberheater
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Interesting stuff OP. Thanks for posting it.
TheSecondSpitter
Member
Confirmation bias from a bunch of nerds.
There's my morning chuckle
But seriously, what if it's not a star at all, and that's the reason why none of our models concerning stars and ways their light output could be blocked/changed fits? It's theoretically possible that there's some other natural phenomena with star-like light output, but isn't a star at all.
Its God winking at us.
â Narayan
Member
Of course I realize that. It is not to be taken so seriously. I just think it would be hilarious if we were in a situation where it would yield such a comparison: That we can't get our shit together to accomplish something so grand, yet another civilization achieves this. (I guess this would be more depressing than hilarious.)
What if they were made by aliens?
IndoAssassin
Banned
Couldn't it just be a bunch of super rocky planets colliding in a relatively short time due to a gravitational anomaly we are not able to detect since it's invisible to our telescope?
∀ Narayan;212744331 said:
Why would it? There could be any trillions of reasons why another civilization if given the same time could achieve more or less than we have. Planet might be paradise which could either speed up or slow down advancement, biological differences, could be water creatures, etc. etc.
Always try to keep your expectations in check.
Imperfected
Member
∀ Narayan;212744331 said:
Okaaaaaay. But as a pure hypothetical, it's in no way more logical or pertinent than saying, "What if it took some dumbass aliens five billion years to get to the point where they could build this? Losers!"
I mean, if you really just feel like waxing poetic about how awful humans are, stick to terrestrial realities. There's very little in space that's going to shine a light on the magnitude of human failure.
Earth doesn't melt and is ostensibly much closer than a safe Lagrange* point for a Dyson sphere.
* I am probably using that wrong, since a Lagrange point tends to be between two or more objects, whereas a Dyson sphere at its simplest is just at a safe "orbit" distance.
Wolfe
Member
I'm not saying that light speed is the hard limit, never to be surpassed, just that with our limited experience/perspective we have yet to figure out ways around that perceived limit.
I mean using a star to communicate, look at this scenario as an example. Even if this was a message to someone, what could it even be that would be relevant 1500 years later?
How exactly is a communication system based on the speed of light efficient and effective in any way when talking about galactic distances?
Edit: I already touched on the possibility of it being a type of beacon or warning which something like a "we are here!" type message would fall under imo. My above argument is more in reference to the idea of this type of thing being used to communicate back and forth.
LordOfChaos
Member
Great movie, even better book. Everyone go out and read Contact by Carl Sagan.
PrivateWHudson
Member
What if the dimming includes the code to create a receiver to open up FTL communication? If they can only travel at ~10% the speed of light without an A and B point to connect via wormhole for FTL travel, at least they could get the instructions to other civilizations in 1500 years vs 15,000 years.
TheSecondSpitter
Member
This thread has officially jumped the shark.
eot
Banned
PrivateWHudson
Member
That's cold. I was just trying to give some reason that they would use a star to communicate. It wasn't my idea. As people have pointed out, radio or laser bursts would have to be focused toward a planet to communicate instructions like in "Contact". Can you think of a better way to send out those kind of instructions if you don't know what other planets have intelligent life?
TheSecondSpitter
Member
How about I get back to you when it is confirmed to be (1) Alien origin; (2) a Dyson Sphere; (3) an attempt at communication; and (4) instructions to build a FTL communication device?
maquiladora
Member
It's a mature star and it's not surrounded by dust, so planet formation is not a likely explanation.
Is we entertain the idea that this is aliens trying to communicate, could they have chosen occlusion because it's easier to detect for less advanced civilisations? Energy efficiency may be the least of their concern, depending on their level of technological advancement and objective.
chromatic9
Member
Starting to think its either cold comets or very large ring systems around relatively small planets.
J1407 has a planet with a very large ring system that blocks 95% of its light.
J1407 has a planet with a very large ring system that blocks 95% of its light.
Slayer-33
Liverpool-2
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Building a Dyson Sphere is probably impossible due to the materials needed and how much of it. You're better off making small colonies that orbit a sun from a safe distance.
neurosisxeno
Member
"We were working on it for years and had no idea what to do with it, Boyajian says. While younger stars are often erratic, KIC 8462852 is middle-aged and well past its temper-tantrum stage. Infrared telescopes see no sign of a warm dusty disk encircling the star that might occasionally block the light. Weve learned a whole bunch about this system, she says, Its very normal except for this one feature."
The ring system the poster was referring to was around a distant planet, not the star itself. That being said, I assume they would have ruled out an exo-ring situation, seeing as it's a known phenomenon.
Badlucktroll
Member
You guys should go read Rendezvous with Rama. Can we see kic 8462852 with a telescope or naked eye? I want to see the star for myself.
Too far to see with the naked eye, but it has been seen. Type FV, main sequence star, yellow-white, ~1.5 solar masses. Not unusual.
neurosisxeno
Member
If it were around an orbiting planet the changes in luminosity would happen at regular intervals. as the planet orbited the star I would imagine.
Thing about a Dyson sphere, is that it would be achievable likely long after a species had basically eliminated the need for a physical existence. Dyson spheres solve for energy use, but you can probably get that energy from the quantum foam and discard bodies entirely.
Be like humans building a ten thousand mile long coal powered electricity generating plant in 2240.
Be like humans building a ten thousand mile long coal powered electricity generating plant in 2240.
Pingoreous
Member
The traveler was originally a Dyson Sphere, just saying.
rokkerkory
Member
Maybe they need it to keep their ark preserving samples of life from thought the galaxy up and running though.
neurosisxeno
Member
That's not how that works. You can't have a Star with a Black Hole inside of it, it would devour the entire thing and would result in a massive--and steady--decline in luminosity. Whenever Stars collide with massive gravitational objects the star is devoured, and we would see it stretch out of shape and eventually disappear over several years. That hasn't happened, as the person who discovered it mentioned it's a rather ordinary star system outside of the fluctuations in brightness that are completely inexplicable.
neurosisxeno
Member
The important facts are:
1. There's a weird fucking star.
2. This star is weird because the light we're seeing from it inconsistently changes in brightness.
3. That doesn't normally happen.
4. The extent to which the brightness changes implies a massive object is moving around this star with an inconsistent orbit, and getting in the way of what we see.
5. No other stars we've observed have similar behavior, and since the orbit of whatever's in the way is so irrational, people are concluding it must be an artificial object moving within the star system. People have jumped at the idea of a Dyson Sphere or Dyson Swarm--a construct used for capturing massive amounts of energy from a star.
vivftp
Member
Well a star within a star is a real thing...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2MD3pyIV-M
But of course it has expected effects that we'd expect to be able to pick up. And that's more talking about a red giant growing to encompass a neutron star. I was more guessing a neutron star ventured into a more normal star.
I guessed the black hole because... of the fact that I'm guessing
ok ok ok... the black hole is a very small one, and it's not directly in the middle of the star, but passing through as it orbits the center of the star. As it goes through it hoovers in more material, and any brightness increases we see is the accretion disc!
I'm very confident in my random guesswork
neurosisxeno
Member
I guessed the black hole because... of the fact that I'm guessing
ok ok ok... the black hole is a very small one, and it's not directly in the middle of the star, but passing through as it orbits the center of the star. As it goes through it hoovers in more material, and any brightness increases we see is the accretion disc!
I'm very confident in my random guesswork
The gravitational pull of the Black Hole would essentially consume the star. Once it started hoovering up matter from the star, it would slowly cease to be able to sustain itself. In the mean time as the star orbited the Black Hole we would see predictable dips in the luminosity with increased frequency as it got closer due to the immense gravity.
vivftp
Member
Sir, do you question the voracity of my random guesswork?!
lol
Anyways, as much as I'd love to believe aliens are involved here, I'm sure it'll just be some mundane occurrence
Well, mostly yes. If you take into account the angle of the ring in reference to Earth, it might appear less regular. But like I said, I think they probably ruled it out.
On topic: The star itself is probably not the culprit here. If black holes were involved we'd detect that. Something is obscuring the light from the star, something large. Either aliens or something natural we've never observed. I'm inclined to believe the latter.
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