Support NeoGAF

[GhaleonEB]

And it couldn't be more hollow a piece of evidence.

The evidence is in what Kadsan, Abrams, Pablo and Serkis have all said, in addition (and in particular) to TFA itself which demonstrated zero interest in yanking EU elements into the new story.

On the flip side, there's literally zero pointing the other way.

Does Kylo know that? Didn't get that part. Might have missed it.

oh my, very interesting

Watch Kylo's reaction to Han telling him that closely. The way it's played in the film, Kylo reacts with a glint of recognition, not surprise or denial to Han's line about Snoke using him.

 

[LegendofLex]

Watch Kylo's reaction to Han telling him that closely. The way it's played in the film, Kylo reacts with a glint of recognition, not surprise or denial to Han's line about Snoke using him.

Are you reading that scene more as Kylo fully agreeing/recognizing what Han is telling him about Snoke's treacherous nature, or Han's comment resurfacing lingering doubts about Snoke's real intentions?

You seem to be leaning toward the idea that Kylo will turn on Snoke out of self-preservation rather than out of a desire to do good in the end, so I'm a little curious about how you see him getting there - whether you think he already has it in mind to kill Snoke, or whether part of him really believes in Snoke amidst pangs of doubt that will inevitably consume him. (Either could be equally interesting, but I'm partial to the latter since I think it pairs more nicely with the conflicts he undergoes in TFA.)

 

[SmackAttack]

Can't wait. Saw The Force Awakens four times and it will forever be one of the best theater experiences I ever had. What an excellent start to a new era of Star Wars films.

 

[Duane Cunningham]

I was just thinking. Wouldn't it be cool if Luke has his own "Jedi Council" on that little island, and they're all Force ghosts... Obi Wan, Yoda, Anakin and Qui Gon, and maybe others?

I dunno. Might be cool.

 

[TheXbox]

I was just thinking. Wouldn't it be cool if Luke has his own "Jedi Council" on that little island, and they're all Force ghosts... Obi Wan, Yoda, Anakin and Qui Gon, and maybe others?

I dunno. Might be cool.

That might be unintentionally hilarious, Luke living like a hermit with a bunch of his imaginary friends. And then Rey can't even see them! Are you crazy, Master Skywalker? Cue laugh track.

 

[Einchy]

*walks up to mic*

Snoke is Plagueis

*vanishes in a puff of smoke*

 

[Liquidsnake]

That might be unintentionally hilarious, Luke living like a hermit with a bunch of his imaginary friends. And then Rey can't even see them! Are you crazy, Master Skywalker? Cue laugh track.

Sounds like a reality show

Jedi house!

 

[Jeffolation]

Somehow missed the announcement of Benicio del Toro being in this. The want has been increased.

 

[EloquentM]

Are you reading that scene more as Kylo fully agreeing/recognizing what Han is telling him about Snoke's treacherous nature, or Han's comment resurfacing lingering doubts about Snoke's real intentions?

You seem to be leaning toward the idea that Kylo will turn on Snoke out of self-preservation rather than out of a desire to do good in the end, so I'm a little curious about how you see him getting there - whether you think he already has it in mind to kill Snoke, or whether part of him really believes in Snoke amidst pangs of doubt that will inevitably consume him. (Either could be equally interesting, but I'm partial to the latter since I think it pairs more nicely with the conflicts he undergoes in TFA.)

i mean it's written that way in the script as well...

Edit for clarification: as Ben knowing that he's being used.

 

[Omegasquash]

I mean Vader was "redeemed", but he couldn't have been more forced into it. Sidious wanted him dead by Lukes hand and voiced that much. At that point there's no way he could have ever worked under Sidious again. And Luke was clearly never going to turn to the dark side.

I'm not sure that I see Kylo willingly going to the lightside without getting beat the fuck down into it on top of being thrown away by Snoke, but I think both things happen so..

You know, I'd have loved to see some thought bubbles in Vader's mind coming up to this, or even what happened between Empire and Jedi (canon) to make him so goddamn depressed and broken for Jedi. The Vader comics get into how Sidious treats Vader, enough to where you could see him holding on to Vader after he killed Luke.

Kylo...I don't know. Maybe he'll get fed up with Snoke and rage out on him, killing him, dying, and then ending up doing what Anakin didn't, die happy, and then everyone else will be left scratching their heads like "well shit, now what?" until episode X.

 

[JSevere]

Can't get hyped for this yet, even though Johnson's about to make the best Star Wars movie of all time, since it's still 22 months away. Rogue One's about to be lit though.

 

[MMarston]

Can't get hyped for this yet, even though Johnson's about to make the best Star Wars movie of all time, since it's still 22 months away. Rogue One's about to be lit though.

 

[JSevere]

 

[Boke1879]

Too hyped for this movie. Really can't wait to see how everything expands. But All my attention is one Rogue One right now.

When do you guys think we get the first teaser for this? I'm sure they don't want to step on Rogue One's toes.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

Can't wait for the knights of Ren to be cast

Let's gooooo

 

[gamz]

Too hyped for this movie. Really can't wait to see how everything expands. But All my attention is one Rogue One right now.

When do you guys think we get the first teaser for this? I'm sure they don't want to step on Rogue One's toes.

Not sure. Im still waiting on a proper Rogue One teaser / trailer.

 

[MMarston]

Too hyped for this movie. Really can't wait to see how everything expands. But All my attention is one Rogue One right now.

When do you guys think we get the first teaser for this? I'm sure they don't want to step on Rogue One's toes.

If they don't actually mind raining R1's parade - November, like last time

If they really do care about R1, it's gonna be December.

 

[Ushojax]

When we do eventually see the Force ghosts, I wonder what they will look like. The way they were done in the OT looks a bit cheap now, I can see them doing something a bit more with the effects so they can age Ewan or recast Anakin without it being distracting. Make them more illusory than actors just standing there with blue outlines.

 

[Randdalf]

John Williams is confirmed for this?

I'd be surprised if he doesn't do it, because he spoke of how working on TFA revitalised and motivated him. He's doing the BFG for Spielberg this year, then I presume he'll move on to doing VIII.

 

[NYR94]

He's expressed intentions of doing the whole trilogy, as far as I know, but there's no official confirmation he's doing EP8/9.

Speaking of Williams, I was looking through the liner notes for the soundtrack to TFA and noticed that there was a special guest conductor for some of the tracks, including the opening titles. I wonder if this was due to Williams being unavailable because he was ill on certain scheduled recording days or is this something he does? Of all the behind-the-scenes footage of movies he's worked on that I've seen they always show him doing the conducting.

 

[TAJ]

Can't wait for the knights of Ren to be cast

Let's gooooo

They'll be cast from a prop company that rents severed body parts in bulk.

 

[MMarston]

When we do eventually see the Force ghosts, I wonder what they will look like. The way they were done in the OT looks a bit cheap now, I can see them doing something a bit more with the effects so they can age Ewan or recast Anakin without it being distracting. Make them more illusory than actors just standing there with blue outlines.

Maybe like the Resurrection Stone ghosts in the last Harry Potter film? They're going to have little bit of lens glow/blur going on with them, very subtle transperancy, and a tinge of desaturation (though, in this case with some blue tinting), but overall they're just gonna be ordinary people just standing there.

 

[Poona]

When we do eventually see the Force ghosts, I wonder what they will look like. The way they were done in the OT looks a bit cheap now, I can see them doing something a bit more with the effects so they can age Ewan or recast Anakin without it being distracting. Make them more illusory than actors just standing there with blue outlines.

Recast Anakin? I know they can't get really get Alec Guinness back and Ewan has shown he's still interested in the character of Obi Wan so hopefully they can age him up, but I don't think Hayden has retired (there is more to him than Star Wars - he received nominations in both the Golden Globes and Screen Actors Guild for his role in Life as a House and his last film release was in September 2015 with 90 Minutes in Heaven), so I'd like to see him continue with the role.

Think it will be a bit bad if they have some random actor pop up and somehow try and convince us it is Anakin, by getting them to somewhat look like Hayden without actually being him, if Hayden is still alive and willing.

 

[Grover Cleveland]

Snoke is fucking Snoke

Yes, but who's Snoke?

That wasn't Coruscant. It was Hosnian Prime.

I know. Hence the wink in spoiler tag.

It's a tongue in cheek reference to one of the top 3 most asked questions in the TFA spoiler thread.

 

[TheXbox]

This is late, but:

For me, he betrays the last bit of his decency by murdering his father in cold blood (who just wants him to come home). Not saying it's impossible, but it's hard to come back from that ultimate decision. Even Vader didn't have the strength to do it (or rather, HAD the strength to).

Yes, he did. He killed his surrogate father, Obi Wan. There's a reason that scene and the bridge scene are framed identically. The only difference between Kylo and Vader is that Kylo actually feels bad about it.

 

[Nerrel]

Think it will be a bit bad if they have some random actor pop up and somehow try and convince us it is Anakin, by getting them to somewhat look like Hayden without actually being him, if Hayden is still alive and willing.

I'm genuinely interested in seeing what kind of performance he could turn in without George Lucas' writing and directing to stumble over. People have said he's actually a talented actor outside of Star Wars.

I don't really know what they'd use him for. The one thing i can think of is Anakin's ghost coming back to pull Kylo off the path he's on and convince him not to make the same mistakes, but you'd think Anakin would have done that earlier. You know, before all the murder.

 

[MMarston]

It's tricky to determine how much Christensen will care about coming back. He's admitted before he's not big into acting anymore since he loves the privacy and really only goes for quick paycheck roles nowadays whatever their quality.

Given that, I don't see this being a drastic interference for him since it's a small cameo. Then again, it just depends now on how interested he is to make that quick buck.

 

[Figboy79]

I didn't care for Brick or Looper, the only two films of his that I've seen, but Brick isn't up my alley at all, and while I didn't care for Looper, I saw that it was very well done. So my opinions of the work I've seen from him aside, I also see the potential. Granted, apparently his Breaking Bad stuff was phenomenal but I don't have that as a gauge. Regardless, I have a lot of faith in him and am even more interested to see what he does.

Also stoked for Trevorrow, I know there's a target on his head on GAF but... well, I loved Jurassic World and thought it was entertaining as all hell, so there's that, and I think his Star Wars output will be better. He tried for more practical effects for example but was only granted one animatronic to work with but with all the practical stuff in the last one I'm not sure that'll be as big a problem for him.

I also really enjoyed Jurassic World. I actually just bought the Blu Ray a week or so ago for $10, and watched some of the extra features, and honestly, Trevorrow comes off as such a nice, cool dude. It could have been him putting on a show, but the way they showed him interacting with the crew (not just the actors), painted him a damn likable light. He treated the crew like people, and was constantly being encouraging and enthusiastic. Enthusiasm is what I felt was missing from the prequels. I like George a lot. I think he's a good man. But I also think he was fatigued with Star Wars during the time he was filming the prequels. I don't think he had that fire.

His Clone Wars work shows that he started to rekindle some of that love of the series, but he loved it enough to let it go to people that had a love for it that he just didn't anymore. I don't like the prequels, but I don't hate Lucas for them. Besides, The Clone Wars was the best apology for the prequels ever. Fantastic show when all was said and done.

Anyway, back to Trevorrow, I think, like Abrams, he has a genuine love of Star Wars, like he had a genuine love for Jurassic Park. I also think he and his crew know how to shoot fun, kinetic stuff, and that was in a "grounded" world woth genetically engineered dinosaurs. A world with space wizards battling space nazis should have him having a blast. All the Trevorrow haters should try and watch some of those behind the scenes featurettes. I think he's going to surprise people with his episode 9. I'm looking forward to it.

I haven't seen a single thing of Rian Johnson, but his Twitter seems pretty amusing. Hollywood doesn't like to work with divas anymore, especially when you are a young, hungry director. I think this new crop of 25-40 year old directors all have a real love of filmmaking, and the material that they're working with.

Abrams brought his A game to TFA. I can't imagine Johnson or Trevorrow not doing the same.

 

[Badlucktroll]

I hope the knights of ren convene! they should all come from around the galaxy and convene in a single room!

 

[ryutaro's mama]

In the script he does:

And yet, this was cut from the film so who knows if it matters or not now.

 

[Badlucktroll]

They'll be cast from a prop company that rents severed body parts in bulk.

I bet Benicio Del Toro is one of them

 

[The Hermit]

I went blind in TFA and was thoroughly disappointed.


I will spoil myself the shit out of episode VIII

 

[TheXbox]

And yet, this was cut from the film so who knows if it matters or not now.

What was cut? Those lines are still in the movie. He doesn't even try to deny that Snoke is manipulating him. He's resigned to it.

 

[Sickboy007]

Can't wait for the knights of Ren to be cast

Let's gooooo

Hope theyre not wasted like the guys from The Raid.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

And yet, this was cut from the film so who knows if it matters or not now.

It's not a line of dialogue, it's just in the script as a character detail

Hope theyre not wasted like the guys from The Raid.

I'm willing to bet they are a bit more plot important.

 

[jmood88]

I thought Force Awakens was just ok and I'm not a huge fan of Star Wars in general but I'm really excited to see this just because of Rian Johnson.

 

[Lord of Castamere]

I'm genuinely interested in seeing what kind of performance he could turn in without George Lucas' writing and directing to stumble over. People have said he's actually a talented actor outside of Star Wars.

I don't really know what they'd use him for. The one thing i can think of is Anakin's ghost coming back to pull Kylo off the path he's on and convince him not to make the same mistakes, but you'd think Anakin would have done that earlier. You know, before all the murder.

I'm thinking he'll/Snoke'll start to see his reverence of Vader as a weakness and somehow through cave force magic or a holodeck be forced to fight Anakin to move past it. An entire scene with RotS Anakin just belittling Ren. A brutal onslaught of insults and anger.

IMHO we won't even see Anakin Ghost visit Luke/Rey, because it would be too silly.

 

[Toothless]

Mother, can you forgive me?
There is something I have to do, but I don't know if I have the strength to do it.

Will you help me mom?

I have a running joke with my friend where we say Leia will keep on sending people to try to convert Kylo to the light instead of actually fighting the First Order.

Leia: "Luke, you're back!"
Luke: "Leia, I'm here to help the Resistance."
Leia: "But Kylo Ren..."
Luke: "He's turned to the dark too much."
Leia: "If you could turn him to the light..."
Luke: "Why don't you try?"
Leia: "I'm just a general. You're his uncle."

*Luke goes to Kylo Ren; gets impaled*

Lando: "I'm sorry to hear Luke died."
Leia: "I'm so sad about it. If only my son was here!"
Lando: "...your son killed your husband. And your brother."
Leia: "Wait... Lando, you were always the cool 'uncle.' With your cape and everything. Maybe you could convert Kylo back to the light."

*Lando goes to Kylo Ren; gets impaled.*

Finn: "Leia, it's clear we can't trust Kylo Ren anymore."
Poe: "We know where he is; if we just bring in an X-Wing and shoot the guy, we'll kill him immediately."
Rey: "And if not, I know the force well enough that I can take him."
Leia: "Well... I don't know."

*Kylo Ren comes to the Resistance.*

Leia: "Ben! How's it going?"
Kylo Ren: "I'm being torn apart. I want to be free of this pain. Will you help me?"
Leia: "Alright, as long as you come back to the light."
Kylo Ren: "... Sure, Mom."

*Leia moves in to hug Kylo; Kylo impales her.*

Finn: "Yeah, she had that coming."

DIRECTED BY RIAN JOHNSON.

 

[Mr Cola]

Favourite part from the ep7 soundtrack, god damn the whole finale is absurdly amazing, Rey and Lukes themse mixed together ;_;

https://youtu.be/cUBUlKgsNK8?list=PL6gnSEjw0t6ZotGtR64070O0cXw8wKpGz&t=423

Keep listening til the end, infact listen to all of it, incredible

 

[liquidtmd]

I really want EP VIII to play out as a Kylo / Snoke parralel to Vader / Emperor only for the end of EP VIII to conclude with Kylo killing Snoke and becoming the supreme leader / Emperor himself.

Would be a nice little turn of expectation.

 

[LegendofLex]

i mean it's written that way in the script as well...

Edit for clarification: as Ben knowing that he's being used.

Well, yeah, but even that has varying shades.

Has he known he's being used the whole time, but is okay with this because he's also using Snoke?

Has he believed in Snoke's guidance, but has lingering doubts about Snoke's intentions that Han exposed?

Or does he just not care that he's being used because at this point he recognizes he's on a self-destructive path and hates himself?

Like, the story could exploit that dynamic in so many possible ways.

 

[Blader]

Hope theyre not wasted like the guys from The Raid.

They could bring back those same guys, put them in Knights costumes, and nobody would know the difference.

 

[Surfinn]

This is late, but:

Yes, he did. He killed his surrogate father, Obi Wan. There's a reason that scene and the bridge scene are framed identically. The only difference between Kylo and Vader is that Kylo actually feels bad about it.

Yeah, let's comment on this.

These scenes are absolutely NOT even comparable in their contexts. Vader had chosen to fully commit to the dark side LONG before his battle with Obi-Wan (even if his eventual internal struggle caused by Luke saved him in the end). In fact, it was a BATTLE, and a SACRIFICE, so.. like I said, this is a stark contrast between what we see with Ben and Han, which is a decision to not only fully commit to the dark side (or at least try to) but to murder his father in cold blood WHILE HE'S TRYING TO GET HIM TO COME HOME and ultimately back to the light side.

Let's take a look at the context, leading up to the fight (ANH). Vader says:

"Escape is not his plan. I must face him, alone."

He already knows that Obi-Wan's intentions are not to live, but rather face him one last time and senses his ultimate fate does not extend beyond his arrival at the Death Star. He knows he'll face his old master, one last time.

Obi-Wan SACRIFICES HIMSELF and even tells Vader of his intentions:

"If you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."

He even smiles as he sees Luke, right before his sacrifice, knowing his destiny has now been fulfilled (becoming one with the force, helping Luke along his Hero's journey).

Vader is just a piece in the puzzle and gladly strikes down his old master who basically taunts him into doing it, allowing him a free shot.

NOW. Let's take a look at Ben's scene with Han:

Han knows he will probably die trying to save his son, but he wants to anyway. Fits right in with his character ("never tell me the odds"). This is a TURNING POINT for Ben, and a decision that's ultimately made by him, and him alone. He's deciding whether he wants to commit to the dark side or the light. His murder of Han is his ATTEMPT to fully commit to the dark side, but as we see in the novelization, it actually weakened him in a way he thought should make him stronger than even Vader.

The Force had not yet decided his fate, because of his internal struggle and his inability to fully commit to the dark or light side. Maybe, like Vader, he will ALWAYS carry that struggle, and he will only fulfill his true destiny in the end. Unlike Vader, however, he was NOT able to save his own family in a crucial turning point that ultimately decided his fate.

A better comparison to make is Vader's decision to save Luke, which is a direct inverse of Ben's decision to kill Han.

Now, I'm not saying he cannot be redeemed, but I do believe this decision is a turning point in his direction as a character, and was specifically framed as such in the film.

My point is that there's a misconception that the Han death scene was made to mirror Obi-Wan's death scene from ANH, but..

They could not be more different, for the reasons listed above.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Han knows he will probably die trying to save his son, but he wants to anyway. Fits right in with his character ("never tell me the odds"). This is a TURNING POINT for Ben, and a decision that's ultimately made by him, and him alone. He's deciding whether he wants to commit to the dark side or the light. His murder of Han is his ATTEMPT to fully commit to the dark side, but as we see in the novelization, it actually weakened him in a way he thought should make him stronger than even Vader.

Great post, and I agree with all of it. I would only add that I think this was conveyed in the film as well. Kylo's reaction to killing Han is not one of empowerment, but tangle of pain, confusion and clear tinges of regret. Whatever he was expecting when he passed that 'test' as Snoke put it, that's not what he felt in that moment, and was plainly a complete wreak in the aftermath.

 

[Surfinn]

Great post, and I agree with all of it. I would only add that I think this was conveyed in the film as well. Kylo's reaction to killing Han is not one of empowerment, but tangle of pain, confusion and clear tinges of regret. Whatever he was expecting when he passed that 'test' as Snoke put it, that's not what he felt in that moment, and was plainly a complete wreak in the aftermath.

Right, very good point. In the film, it's all over his damn face right after he does it. He's realized that even though he worked up the strength to kill his father, he's not only further from his goal but internally weakened, as a result.

He's realized that he's not yet strong enough to fully commit to the dark side (he's only begun his journey by murdering Han).

And I think Snoke will whoop his ass into submission after he senses it.

Which causes me to think Kylo will eventually evade Snoke who will continue to punish him for paving his own path (not following his orders or commands) somewhere later in the trilogy.

 

[BFIB]

Even if the ultimate endgame is Kylo turning to the light side, and Rey turning to the dark side, its going to be tough to sell.

 

[Surfinn]

Even if the ultimate endgame is Kylo turning to the light side, and Rey turning to the dark side, its going to be tough to sell.

Nah, Rey is the hero of the trilogy. She won't ultimately turn to the dark side.

Kylo is definitely open ended, but I REALLY think he's gunna take more of a breaking bad approach (Walter White) and further descend down a path he never fully intended to follow (convinces himself he's doing the right thing).

 

[brandonh83]

I also really enjoyed Jurassic World. I actually just bought the Blu Ray a week or so ago for $10, and watched some of the extra features, and honestly, Trevorrow comes off as such a nice, cool dude.

He's humble and will only improve as a filmmaker over time. He's doing other stuff between now and Episode IX as well. I have a lot of faith in him. Jurassic World was the first Jurassic Park sequel I've loved so he's earned my trust.

 

[MMarston]

I'd like to see Rey darkside compromised, but not a full turn.

He's humble and will only improve as a filmmaker over time. He's doing other stuff between now and Episode IX as well. I have a lot of faith in him. Jurassic World was the first Jurassic Park sequel I've loved so he's earned my trust.

I'm not confident in him right now, but this too is what I'm hoping. You can totally tell he's dude who means well and has some good ideas. It's just that I wouldn't say he's brought his A-game yet to anything.

 

[-griffy-]

Finn's cardio game on point. With bonus cheerleading from Oscar Isaac (the bromance is alive).