but but Luke beat him
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Star Wars: In Production [Rumors/SPOILERS for All Films Past, Present, & Future]
- Thread starter inm8num2
- Start date
but but Luke beat him
I have no hope for this movie. It'll be a big kick back to the OT trilogy. When Han, Leah, and Luke are shown it'll be a panning shot until their face and they'll say something they're really famous for or something that will get people to laugh.
The Empire still has remnants? The whole point of the OT trilogy that Vadar and Palpatine saw their commanders as incompetent. Vadar and Palpatine kept the empire going. How come they were all celebrating at the end of Returns? It makes no sense how they're still about.
I've always liked the off-story that the Empire and now the Republic had been guarding Korriban from actual Sith natives and Palpatine had Vadar try and recruit them but they don't join. Now that the Empire is gone and the Republic isn't strong they try and take their planet back. It's a much smaller story but even its premise (even though it was flawed) is still better than this.
This just makes me cry. JJ Abrams will take a giant JJ Abrams dump on this universe and his shtick will make fans cry.
The Empire still has remnants? The whole point of the OT trilogy that Vadar and Palpatine saw their commanders as incompetent. Vadar and Palpatine kept the empire going. How come they were all celebrating at the end of Returns? It makes no sense how they're still about.
I've always liked the off-story that the Empire and now the Republic had been guarding Korriban from actual Sith natives and Palpatine had Vadar try and recruit them but they don't join. Now that the Empire is gone and the Republic isn't strong they try and take their planet back. It's a much smaller story but even its premise (even though it was flawed) is still better than this.
This just makes me cry. JJ Abrams will take a giant JJ Abrams dump on this universe and his shtick will make fans cry.
Why wouldn't the Empire still have remnants? Their membership spanned the galaxy. Vader and the Emperor dying means the larger organization of it all will begin to fall apart, not that the millions and millions of Imperials will suddenly turn in their uniforms and go home.
The Empire is a copy of the Nazi Party: rigid control and the dissolve of democracy. There's a reason why there wasn't a single comment from any citizen in the empire that they liked it. They also celebrated like they won the god damn Super Bowl after Palpy and Vadar got smacked up: they were free. The commanders were "just following orders". It was either join or die.
How they exist is really silly and takes a dump on the OT trilogy. The best solution is another tragedy. Continuing the same one is lame and really unimaginative.
but but midichlorians
AlimNassor
Banned
The Nazi party didn't dissolve overrnight. The allies took the capital, nuked 2 cities and mostly everyone was captured or on the run. There was no point in fighting after that, they were fucked. the nazis had 1 choice: surrender or fight and let the russians kill you.
And he was supposedly good afterwards... but still powerful. Timothy Zahn is famous for being something of an official fix-fic writer. Problems? Zahn finds them, considers them and their effects, suggests a reason, and fixes them.
Simple example: The X-wings banking like they were aircraft despite being spacecraft? Etheric rudders. He didn't really elaborate what those were really, but presumably they had something to do with spacetime or such (ether). Of course this was a throw-away line so most other authors apparently missed it, since they have gone unmentioned afterwards. (We can question whether this was necessary but apparently Zahn thought it should be explained.)
More complex example is that Dark Side and Luke thing, he was portrayed so powerful in post-Jedi/post-Thrawn trilogy EU, the only logical explanation was that he was using the Dark Side, and he did stop that in the Hand of Thrawn duology after confronted by this... only to begin again in the New Jedi Order...
Zahn may have made a mistake here though: Yoda comments in ESB that the Dark Side is not more powerful but quicker and easier. Of course it could be argued that Luke's power came from the easy way, not from considering and making an effort, like a Light Side Jedi should.
Perfect Cha0s
Member
Not entirely an apt comparison since the Nazis weren't a galaxy-spanning Empire.
No, but the Nazis sure as hell didn't remain as a powerful remnant 30+ years later.
The Empire is the Nazi Party. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_Empire_(Star_Wars)#Themes We can say, "Well, these guys are in space" but that doesn't matter since their creation, downfall, etc. are tied to the Nazi party. Heck, Himmler betrays the Nazi party.
They just struck a huge blow against the Empire, why wouldn't they be celebrating? Or are we talking about the goofy ass special editions?
The two most likely scenarios are that either someone powerful/charismatic enough manages to take over the Empire, or it breaks up into a number of warlords. We already know from episode IV that the Emperor dissolved the senate and gave regional governors direct control over their territories, so the second option seems far more likely.
but Luke still beat him man..!
The Nazi's didn't have a vastly superior armed forces. There are fleets of Star Destroyes and other ships. By the time Episode 7 starts, some of the scattered remnants can join forces and control a lot of territory. It's not like the Rebels had great amounts of supplies or people.
At the very least the remaining Empire fleets could hold separate territories with different admirals and the like in control.
fine..damnit!
At the very least the remaining Empire fleets could hold separate territories with different admirals and the like in control.
fine..damnit!
Yes, but he made them unite when he talks about the Death Star being the absolute power because he can destroy people on a whim. That's one of the reasons Alderaan was destroyed: against the Empire no matter who you are and you're dead.
Warlords may be a possibility but the god damn Empire?
I thought we were talking about Imperial remnants? They would likely still identify as Imperials.
I haven't followed leaks too closely, so I don't know what kind of Empire we're talking about exactly. I would find a wide-spanning cohesive Empire to be unlikely as well.
Charles Foster Kane
Rosebud
Maybe it's just a movie, and the possibility of an empire surviving the death of its leader doesn't seem too far fetched in a Universe where people can shoot electricity from their hands.
That the Empire shares similarities with the Nazy Party can mean very little.
Star Wars is at its when it is more simple. We all know how going deeper into politics went.
That the Empire shares similarities with the Nazy Party can mean very little.
Star Wars is at its when it is more simple. We all know how going deeper into politics went.
AlimNassor
Banned
When Berlin fell they were fucked. By the end of WWII Germany was once again in ruins and it's army gone. Nazi Germany also was a brief power that was unstable.
Rome didn't fall in a day.
MisterHero
Super Member
I can understand the Empire having remnants but that celebration scene on Coruscant probably meant they didn't even hold the capital planet. So how strong could they really be?
Charles Foster Kane
Rosebud
That celebration was also SE bs, but I digress.
AlimNassor
Banned
Was that celebration scene even canon?
MisterHero
Super Member
I like to think it was a teaser for Episode 1, so I'm gonna say yes.
DVD Special Edition Hayden Christensen can stay away.
Perhaps most of Coruscant's military forces were protecting the Emperor
Consider what city Tienanmen Square is in.
Eh, Rome is more complicated than The Empire. The Empire was designed to die when Palpatine and Vadar were dead. Cut off the head yadda yadda shit. While The Empire takes after Nazi and other civilizations the end of the Empire was the death of Sidious and Vadar. Any remnants after simply don't exist with how the Empire was run: power, murder, and fear.
weremichael
Member
I always thought what mattered was that Vader beat the Emperor, because Luke couldn't handle getting roasted by the force lightning. The Vader/Emperor deal was the boss battle not the Vader/Luke battle. I at least saw it that way back when I was eleven. Luke was a first class whiner in 4, ditched out on training in 5, and got saved by his father in 6. Kinda of a bitch really.
Liamario
Banned
I don't understand why people are spoiler tagging things in a thread title that says 'spoilers' in it. I don't think Luke has been held captive for 30 years. I think he is probably in hiding ala obi wan and yoda.
MrGreencastle
Member
Nah. Luke knew that there was still a bit of good left in Vader, but as a Jedi was not strong enough to beat him. In order to finally make Vader see that he still could come back from the dark side, Luke turned to the Dark Side, embracing his anger and beat Vader down to a pulp, cutting off his hand. But then Luke rejected the Dark Side and came back, the first time anyone did that. And that was the seed that allowed Vader to save his son from Sidious, sacrificing himself in the process. In the end, he returned as a force ghost showing that Anakin still lived within Vader, and that it was possible to 'come back' from the Dark Side.
block tower
Member
i just stopped paying attention to that part about "strongest" because given all the Star Wars characters, canon and non-canon, it seems mute at this point.
weremichael
Member
If so,I respect Luke a whole lot more. I never saw him so crafty and cunning.
Recent Star Wars leaks (except the trooper helmets) "not true"? This site says yes.
http://thisisinfamous.com/sorry-to-rain-on-your-star-wars-episode-vii-rumor-parade-but/
Let's be sure to keep tabs on who is delivering the bullshit and who has the goods as we get closer to release :3
http://thisisinfamous.com/sorry-to-rain-on-your-star-wars-episode-vii-rumor-parade-but/
Let's be sure to keep tabs on who is delivering the bullshit and who has the goods as we get closer to release :3
Doctoglethorpe
Member
I know thats the official story, but I like to also throw in the fan theory about Sidious cutting off his battle meditation to Vader at the end of the fight, which kind of retroactively explains that awkward fall Vader makes before he gets his hand cut off, like all the wind was suddenly pulled from his lungs. So Luke did dip into the dark side to beat him, but that wasn't the only reason he won. Sidious made the bet that Luke wouldn't come back at that moment and handed him victory, but it failed.
BadAssDigest has a much better track record than that site though.
The Elite
BOSS
It absolutely is.
Demoncarnotaur
Member
Sounds more like they were true at some point, but are outdated now. I'm happy to hear the troopers are legit, and the villain won't be robotic looking.
That's only because you want it to work that way. At no point is it suggested that the Empire will immediately disappear following the deaths of Vader and Palpatine. Start to fall apart? Yeah. The Death Star has been blown up, the two head honchos are gone, it's a major victory for the rebels and a huge "We might be fucked" moment for the Imperials. But that's not the same thing as everyone immediately stands down.
Look at Tarkin. Is that a character who strikes you as someone that would just stop after the events of Jedi? And there are likely dozens, if not hundreds, of those types of governors in play (it is, after all, an entire galaxy). People who, like you say, trade in power, murder and fear, and sure as shit won't give that up already if only because doing so would definitely mean their own death.
The idea of the Empire living on in remnants and warlords following Jedi is not a new idea or development at all. And just because the Empire takes a lot of its cues from the Nazi party does not mean it must or will follow the same historical path as the Nazis did either.
Vader not Vadar, Vader not Vadar. He's been a world famous villain for decades.
Probably mentioned already, but Faraci mentioned a day or two ago that Abrams was very upset when the alleged spoilers broke. The rumors seem plausible enough, so I lean toward believing them, but it could be a deliberate leak for misdirection.
Doublesith
Member
Rumors du jour, courtesy of makingstarwars.net:
Lukes Disappearance The idea that Luke disappeared immediately after Endor isnt entirely true. He had a good 10 to 20 years after Return Of The Jedi ended. When the movie starts hes been missing for around 10 years.
Count Dooku Connection Back when Benedict Cumberbatch was a rumored addition to the cast, a rumor was that his character was a descendant of Count Dooku. This was true. This connection was then moved onto Gwendoline Christies character.
Leia and the Hutts There was a production sketch done very very early on which showed Princess Leia standing in the middle of several Hutts. She was wearing a maroon dress (political style) and was flanked by two soldiers (they looked to me like the Naboo guards from Phantom Menace but to others they looked like the rebel soldiers from the beginning of A New Hope.) The picture looked as if she was having a meeting with them. She certainly didnt appear to be captive or under threat. I have no idea if this sketch has anything to do with the movie that is being shot as it was very early on.
Endor Again, very early on, there were several sketches titled after party which was a bit of an in-joke. These showed a second battle of Endor. The story being that after the rebels left Endor, Imperial forces and these new villains attacked. They killed many Ewoks and more importantly left with the remains of Darth Vader. Now, where I was working at the time, there was a lot going on and some of it wasnt necessarily related to Episode VII but other Star Wars projects that will fill in the gaps between Episode VI and VII . I dont think these scenes will appear in the movie but rather something set between movies.
George Lucas Georges vision for the Sequel Trilogy was to take it right back to the beginning. Meaning, the beginning of the Jedi and Sith, how that came to be and how ancients forces were still influencing things. Luke was going to go on an adventure that would take him back to the origin of evil in the Galaxy. Some of these ideas have very much influenced the story.
Count Dooku Connection Back when Benedict Cumberbatch was a rumored addition to the cast, a rumor was that his character was a descendant of Count Dooku. This was true. This connection was then moved onto Gwendoline Christies character.
Leia and the Hutts There was a production sketch done very very early on which showed Princess Leia standing in the middle of several Hutts. She was wearing a maroon dress (political style) and was flanked by two soldiers (they looked to me like the Naboo guards from Phantom Menace but to others they looked like the rebel soldiers from the beginning of A New Hope.) The picture looked as if she was having a meeting with them. She certainly didnt appear to be captive or under threat. I have no idea if this sketch has anything to do with the movie that is being shot as it was very early on.
Endor Again, very early on, there were several sketches titled after party which was a bit of an in-joke. These showed a second battle of Endor. The story being that after the rebels left Endor, Imperial forces and these new villains attacked. They killed many Ewoks and more importantly left with the remains of Darth Vader. Now, where I was working at the time, there was a lot going on and some of it wasnt necessarily related to Episode VII but other Star Wars projects that will fill in the gaps between Episode VI and VII . I dont think these scenes will appear in the movie but rather something set between movies.
George Lucas Georges vision for the Sequel Trilogy was to take it right back to the beginning. Meaning, the beginning of the Jedi and Sith, how that came to be and how ancients forces were still influencing things. Luke was going to go on an adventure that would take him back to the origin of evil in the Galaxy. Some of these ideas have very much influenced the story.
Pagusas
Elden Member
All of that sounds good to me, nothing crazy, nothing that seems far fetched.
block tower
Member
thank you for this post. i wonder if this will reference the force planet that Kenobi and Skywalker visited in the Clone Wars TV show, or even the two places Yoda visits to learn how to presrrve himself after death?
Dragonborn
Member
Anakin had the greatest force potential, but the outcome of the duel on Mustafer crippled his chances. While Vader was still very strong, he wasn't the strongest ever. Had Anakin been able to live out his life and grow to his full potential, he could have been.
A Serious Man
Member
There are some stories in the Clone Wars show that flirt with this, the Mortis and Yoda arcs come to mind.
brandonh83
Banned
That sounds great and exactly what I would like for the new movies to be about.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
First anyone's hearing about Luke disappearing later rather than sooner post-Jedi. Interesting. If anything, it makes the rest of the story points we've heard seem a little weirder now. The lack of a Jedi Order or of any sort of greater, non-Imperial force presence makes sense with Luke completely out of the equasion for three decades. But if he's only been gone for 10 years (only, I say, jeez) then what was going on for those 20 years?
Otherwise, sounds like two of those bullet points likely don't have anything to do with Episode VII at all, and the other confirms Gwendoline Christie absolutely WAS genderswapped.
Otherwise, sounds like two of those bullet points likely don't have anything to do with Episode VII at all, and the other confirms Gwendoline Christie absolutely WAS genderswapped.
Future PhaZe
Member
havent read the spoilers but I thought boyegas character was a jedi
A Serious Man
Member
Who said there wasn't a major non-Imperial force?
I'm also not sure why people seem to think the only possible thing Luke could do after RotJ is establish a new Jedi Order. The EU isn't canon anymore and at the end of Ep. VI Luke is someone with great potential but only half-trained and who very recently had his ass kicked by the Emperor. It makes perfect sense to have him set out on his own to learn more about the Jedi and hopefully find others.
Doctoglethorpe
Member
Luke isnt god, the Empire could have still put up quite a fight against him. The war could have waged those 20 years. And no new Jedi order sounds more in line with the original trilogy then the EU ever was anyways. Luke didn't seem like he was in a rush to repeat the mistakes Yoda and Obiwan made. He could have spent those 20 years trying to figure out a new way of teaching Jedi, or maybe he just straight up decided there shouldn't be any since the Sith were gone they were no longer needed and raising them would just run the risk of creating new Sith. Theres a lot of reasons why that timeline could work.
I really do hope theres no new Jedi order same as the old Jedi order.