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//: StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm |OT| Like Riding a Bike

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Blizzard is a more retarded company than expected if both the oracle and the dark templar buff happens. I'm honestly baffled by how incompetent David and the balance team really is. Let's hope they stop chugging mintus in their bodies each time they go to work, so we can all be happy and have a good, non-infested-cheese-fest game.
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Could anyone give me an example how "fast" the siege tank will shoot now? Anyway to check?
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Hahahaha

By the way, I swear to God if NA gets exclusive SC2 avatars...

Back to School Feats of Strength achievement

JNTb2hX.jpg


And three exclusive avatars:
Duo6rPD.png


=================================

How to get:

From now through September 30, win five StarCraft II games in any combination of Arcade, Custom, Ranked, Training, Unranked, or Versus A.I. online game modes
However...
Doesn't seem to work.
Appears to be NA only.
I guess I know why this is NA-Server only - in Europe we don't have things like "a yearbook".
Like, seriously Blizzard?

=================================

edit: official statement from Blizzard (source: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/11042120/)
Please Note: We encountered an issue while making this promotion available for the European and Korean Battle.net regions which will result in a delay for players on those servers. Despite the delay, players in the European and Korean regions of Battle.net can still "study abroad" to earn the new achievement and portrait rewards on the Americas and South East Asia servers. We appreciate your patience as we work to resolve the issue and we'll provide more information as soon as it's available. Thank you.

Wait, so does this mean that I can get the achievement+avatars on NA servers and they'll transfer to my EU account? I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way with other achievements...
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
doesnt sound like it. enjoy your cheerleader kerrigan on na
Screw that. Thankfully they ARE trying to fix the problem, so...
Hey everyone, I just wanted to check in and let you know that what's happening here is a display issue. It's a symptom of the primary issue we're working to correct for the Back to School Week promotion in the Europe and Korea Battle.net regions.
Again, we'll offer more insight on this as soon as we can. We're hoping to get this resolved and the promotion up and running for Europe by the end of day Pacific time, and Korea asap tomorrow.
Thanks for your patience!
 

zargle

Member
Watching WCS right now a question occurs to me regarding the widow mine nerf: How would this affect the splash damage going back onto marines when zerglings surround or similar situations? This would help the terran in that situation right? Not really a good enough tradeoff for the loss of radius, but could be interesting.
 

Zen

Banned
Anyone have the Splash damage on a Seige tank handy and how it measures up to the proposed widow mine change?

Here's a question, so a lot of us basically dislike the idea of it taking a nerf to buff TvZ. The issue as it's expalined is that widow mines are a bit too cost efficient in the mid game. How would you buff Zerg to help even it out without messing with the overall matchup?

Blizzard is a more retarded company than expected if both the oracle and the dark templar buff happens. I'm honestly baffled by how incompetent David and the balance team really is. Let's hope they stop chugging mintus in their bodies each time they go to work, so we can all be happy and have a good, non-infested-cheese-fest game.

Hahaha. Well they have said that they like to buff things to get people to use them, but in the case of DTs and Orcales, I think any buff they make will just result in cheese. They should really just start hitting gamers over the head and shouting REVELATION.

Terran had been pretty dominant before that so there wasn't all that much to complain about :p.

SILENCE!
 

Sibylus

Banned
Anyone have the Splash damage on a Seige tank handy and how it measures up to the proposed widow mine change?

Here's a question, so a lot of us basically dislike the idea of it taking a nerf to buff TvZ. The issue as it's expalined is that widow mines are a bit too cost efficient in the mid game. How would you buff Zerg to help even it out without messing with the overall matchup?
Burrowed units can detect mines within close proximity?

Though that might ruin them, LOL.
 

leakey

Member
Trying to get back into this game after a long hiatus since BW. Do people still meet up in Bnet ever or is there an easy way to get ingrained back into the SC community? I have no idea who any of these Koreans are these days and none of my friends play anymore so I'm trying to get some people to play/learn with :)
 
Trying to get back into this game after a long hiatus since BW. Do people still meet up in Bnet ever or is there an easy way to get ingrained back into the SC community? I have no idea who any of these Koreans are these days and none of my friends play anymore so I'm trying to get some people to play/learn with :)

If you're actually serious about learning the game, feel free to send me a PM and ill hook you up.
 

Aylinato

Member
Burrowed units can detect mines within close proximity?

Though that might ruin them, LOL.


Probably fix the balance by buffing swarm hosts so that they come out sooner, maybe reduction in time built, maybe make those locusts run faster. As of right now they are pretty much....eh.
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Trying to get back into this game after a long hiatus since BW. Do people still meet up in Bnet ever or is there an easy way to get ingrained back into the SC community? I have no idea who any of these Koreans are these days and none of my friends play anymore so I'm trying to get some people to play/learn with :)
EU of NA? I will play with you anytime I can :)
 
Probably fix the balance by buffing swarm hosts so that they come out sooner, maybe reduction in time built, maybe make those locusts run faster. As of right now they are pretty much....eh.

What in the world are you talking about?!? Swarm hosts are used amazingly against meching Terrans, against all ground based Protoss compositions in combination with good creep spread, static defense and vipers. They are a good lategame situational unit in ZvZ.

The unit is used alot and is very strong when used correctly.
 

Aylinato

Member
What in the world are you talking about?!? Swarm hosts are used amazingly against meching Terrans, against all ground based Protoss compositions in combination with good creep spread, static defense and vipers. They are a good lategame situational unit in ZvZ.

The unit is used alot and is very strong when used correctly.


I wanna see more swarm hosts
 

Zen

Banned
All the crazy tech switches make ZvP really fun to watch imo, and Swarm hosts are actually uses pretty dynamically now instead of just borrow and forget all ins.

Trying to get back into this game after a long hiatus since BW. Do people still meet up in Bnet ever or is there an easy way to get ingrained back into the SC community? I have no idea who any of these Koreans are these days and none of my friends play anymore so I'm trying to get some people to play/learn with :)

I will play with you on NA or EU :D
 
EJ do you secretly hate all of sc2gaf for whining about balance

I normally catch myself writing something and then just delete it because most of the people here don't understand that the game is balanced around the highest level of play and not their skewed view of what is good and what isn't.

Also just like everybody here, anything I say has a slight bias toward the Protoss point of view. As noted in the post below yours, being called out for cheesing every now and then is another reason I can't relate with majority of the conversation here. (When I obviously have a wide range of builds for every matchup/map, otherwise I wouldn't be able to maintain masters.)


TL;DR I'd rather just say happy things or nothing at all in this thread.
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Holden finally reaching his peak of typing!
 

Zen

Banned
I feels there's a misunderstand or miss use the 'term highest level of play' when considering what Blizzard balances around. GM+ isn't the sole consideration anymore than imbalance at Masters and Diamond. They balance it for Plat-GM, David Kim even said so not too long ago. Keep in mind that Diamond starts at what, 92nd percentile?

It just happens that the higher you get the more balance issues do show up and you can make very fine changes (like the overseer speed buff) that won't affect the game anywhere else but the top percentile.

Protoss not winning at the 99th percentile is an issue but there's a reason they're trying not to buff toss in a way that will require you to have Korean APM and micro because that would totally ruin diamond to bronze. They just aren't as concerned about wide variance at platinum and below because player skill issues are holding out 90% of 'balance' issues.

I could be completely wrong, but that's just my 2 cents.

I normally catch myself writing something and then just delete it because most of the people here don't understand that the game is balanced around the highest level of play and not their skewed view of what is good and what isn't.

Also just like everybody here, anything I say has a slight bias toward the Protoss point of view. As noted in the post below yours, being called out for cheesing every now and then is another reason I can't relate with majority of the conversation here. (When I obviously have a wide range of builds for every matchup/map, otherwise I wouldn't be able to maintain masters.)


TL;DR I'd rather just say happy things or nothing at all in this thread.

Everyone knows you're very good in general. It's not like you got as high as you have off of cheese. My post even have a tongue stick out.
 

Wunder

Member
I normally catch myself writing something and then just delete it because most of the people here don't understand that the game is balanced around the highest level of play and not their skewed view of what is good and what isn't.

Also just like everybody here, anything I say has a slight bias toward the Protoss point of view. As noted in the post below yours, being called out for cheesing every now and then is another reason I can't relate with majority of the conversation here. (When I obviously have a wide range of builds for every matchup/map, otherwise I wouldn't be able to maintain masters.)


TL;DR I'd rather just say happy things or nothing at all in this thread.

Yeah, that's the vibe I got. I hope you know what I post is almost entirely in jest.
 
I want another Starcraft 2 tourney. Where the hell is Ketch and the rest of SC2 GAF?

Can we do a Round of 8/12 where everyone vs everyone in a BO 3 and the highest map score wins?

There should be at least 12 of us if the last tournament was anything to go by.
 
Anyone have the Splash damage on a Seige tank handy and how it measures up to the proposed widow mine change?

Here's a question, so a lot of us basically dislike the idea of it taking a nerf to buff TvZ. The issue as it's expalined is that widow mines are a bit too cost efficient in the mid game. How would you buff Zerg to help even it out without messing with the overall matchup?

Mine nerf they're planning should help a lot although I don't know exactly how much of a difference it will make. Not like it would make much of a difference in TvP where they're only used as drops (where unless the Protoss sucks will still get minimal probe kills) and Oracle defense. They will still destroy mutaballs with ease but the difficulty of microing zergling/baneling around them will be slightly easier. I would do one of two things as well:

A) Up their cost to like 125/25.

B) Require tech lab to make them.
 
Everyone knows you're very good in general. It's not like you got as high as you have off of cheese. My post even have a tongue stick out.

If cheese stopped you from being a good player than you might as well write off flash, MVP, MC and most of the best players. Being able to cheese/allin effectively is a huge part of being a good player. I agree that EJ is definitely a good player and i like seeing those interesting builds.

They are used more than infestors and broodlords...

I still think infestors are really underused. Sure they aren't as powerful as they were at the end of WOL but they are still damn good units. It seems as though whenever i see them at the top level they have a huge impact on the match. Even just a few can make a difference.

I also think the added range of fungal hasn't been recognized. Making it a projectile is a big nerf but it does let you get a fungal off with getting inside of high templar range (you can shoot and move back).

Maybe they're garbage and i don't see it but i reckon we will see their usage increasing as time goes on.

I feels there's a misunderstand or miss use the 'term highest level of play' when considering what Blizzard balances around. GM+ isn't the sole consideration anymore than imbalance at Masters and Diamond. They balance it for Plat-GM, David Kim even said so not too long ago. Keep in mind that Diamond is what, 90th percentile?

It just happens that the higher you get the more balance issues do show up and you can make very fine changes (like the overseer speed buff) that won't affect the game anywhere else but the top percentile.

Protoss not winning at the 99th percentile is an issue but there's a reason they're trying not to buff toss in a way that will require you to have Korean APM and micro because that would totally ruin diamond to bronze. They just aren't as concerned about wide variance at platinum and below because player skill issues are holding out 90% of 'balance' issues.

I could be completely wrong, but that's just my 2 cents.

The solution to this is to reduce the amount of a move death balling. If every race is difficult and powerful to use than they will all be imbalanced at a low level. Then it just comes down to who the best is that wins. It's just when you make a race really easy to use that things become imbalanced at low levels. As long as things aren't totally broken down there i don't think they should be making specific changes around that level of play.

Edit: Not trying to talk down about bad players either. The thought of this game being balanced around a player of my skill level is scary.

Here's a question, so a lot of us basically dislike the idea of it taking a nerf to buff TvZ. The issue as it's expalined is that widow mines are a bit too cost efficient in the mid game. How would you buff Zerg to help even it out without messing with the overall matchup?

Give them more ability to siege up a position. Have you seen the recent strat where zerg players are now starting to use 3-4 spines at the spot the terran is pushing to make it more difficult to move in? Because mines can't siege up like a tank a few spines can make moving into a position more difficult.

The other issue is that zerg simply can't afford to get to hive tech because they need a spire and it's expensive to get an infestation pit/hive when you won't see any pay off until 3/3 has finished. Perhaps make spire tech be able to go into hive?

Or you can go the crazy route and just give us back the damn lurker. It would make moving into a sieged position MUCH harder and a unit of that type allows bases to be defended with smaller groups of units and makes attacking with huge clumps of units more dangerous. I know it would create all sorts of imbalances but fuck if i wouldn't love to see it back. Imagine if after the finals of blizzcon they showed just a small teaser that the lurker was coming back, there would be a huge amount of hype (and i can bet that Koreans would be all over it). That's not really related to your question, i'm just desperate to see it back lol.
 

Zen

Banned
When a Zerg figures out of how to combine infestors and vipers... It's going to be so sick.

The solution to this is to reduce the amount of a move death balling. If every race is difficult and powerful to use than they will all be imbalanced at a low level. Then it just comes down to who the best is that wins. It's just when you make a race really easy to use that things become imbalanced at low levels. As long as things aren't totally broken down there i don't think they should be making specific changes around that level of play.

Agree agree.


Give them more ability to siege up a position. Have you seen the recent strat where zerg players are now starting to use 3-4 spines at the spot the Terran is pushing to make it more difficult to move in? Because mines can't siege up like a tank a few spines can make moving into a position more difficult.

The other issue is that zerg simply can't afford to get to hive tech because they need a spire and it's expensive to get an infestation pit/hive when you won't see any pay off until 3/3 has finished. Perhaps make spire tech be able to go into hive?

Or you can go the crazy route and just give us back the damn lurker. It would make moving into a sieged position MUCH harder and a unit of that type allows bases to be defended with smaller groups of units and makes attacking with huge clumps of units more dangerous. I know it would create all sorts of imbalances but fuck if i wouldn't love to see it back. Imagine if after the finals of blizzcon they showed just a small teaser that the lurker was coming back, there would be a huge amount of hype (and i can bet that Koreans would be all over it). That's not really related to your question, i'm just desperate to see it back lol.

Ok, so lets just put a pin in your awesome lurker fanboyism for now XD

I've really liked seeing the spine crawler answer, as well as using the speed upgrade in your overlords to make baitlords that soak shots. This is especially important when the terran is pushing close and you can disable another few mines after a fight has reset each side before the next push (that Zerg will naturally be ready to execute more quickly).

You know I love playing TvZ even when I get rolled, because it does feel very skill based and let's be honest, there weren't a whole lot of variation in TvZ strategies for Brood War. I've kind of turned a corner from being 'bored' with bio mine to really getting into the ever growing skill ceiling of the matchup. Zergs are getting so good at picking off mines with mutas, I love it.

I'm not so sure about Spire unlocking Hive (but it might actually be the best solution?), ideas like this are a really solid way to approach the problem instead of Nerfing widow mines directly. Widow mines are an awesome spectator unit and Blizzard should be focusing on making each race 'awesome' instead of nerfing this to a boring parity. Footnote: This is just another way of saying I agree with your post regarding the propsed balance changes.
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
7lgxO.gif


Terran, the only race in SC2 that really benefits good micro.
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
In combat auto regen? That would be rad. I wonder what pricetag it should get.
As if that is preventing herp derp tactics like engaging (and winning, cuz it's toss) and then backing off, getting half their units back to full health and then engage again before terran manages to reinforce because warp mechanics is broken unlike rax/fac/star.
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?

Zen

Banned
Balance Test Map Soon

Thank you for your feedback on all the proposed changes. Here’s a slightly altered list of things that we will be testing soon on the balance test map. Again, none of these are final so please don’t panic.

These are the ones we’d like to try for the reasons given earlier this week:

Terran Mech ground and air attack upgrades combined

Widow Mine splash radius decreased from 1.75 to 1.25

Siege Tank attack period decreased from 3 to 2.7


Roach speed upgrade also increases the burrowed roach movement speed from 1.41 to 2.25

We’d also like to try a different set of changes for the Oracle:
Oracle
- Speed increased from 3.375 to 4
- Acceleration increased from 2 to 3
- Revelation range increased from 9 to 10


The speed changes are something we’ve tried in the past and we believe this is a better direction than a straight cost reduction for the unit. The main reason is that we’d like the difference between someone who’s amazing with Oracle micro to be able to keep them alive the whole game to get the most out of them, whereas lesser skilled players won’t get as much out of this change. Not only that, this direction is a smaller buff to the all in case and/or early game use cases compared to the previously proposed 50 gas cost reduction.

Revelation right now is the main late game ability for Oracles, meaning if it’s a bit easier to use, we’d see a lot more Oracle usage in the late game as well.

The balance test map will be up for everyone to try soon, so please make sure to play with the changes as much as you can when it goes up. Thank you.
Much better than what we first saw proposed.
 

Zen

Banned
God I find Mobas so boring to play I only ever play LoL when friends make me.

We should have an imba league tournament.
 

Zen

Banned
Dota 2 is just a boring :/ I actually find LoL to be more fun moment to moment. Mechanics like denial are just so silly.
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Fuck both games
 
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