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//: StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm |OT| Like Riding a Bike

H

HolyCheck

I want a tag give me a tag
Lionsgate and OddLot Entertainment are partnering with Twitch and MLG to be the first-ever movie studio sponsorship of an esports tournament.

The Ender’s Game on Blu-ray Tournament, a first for a motion picture studio, will feature $20,000 for the best StarCraft 2 players in the United States.
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werrrd
 
G

giri

Member
SamuraiX- said:
SfvaJzn.png


IdrA just posted an addendum to this on TL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=442589
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I will never understand his popularity in the first place.

unknownstranger said:
To make Roach/Hydra viable in ZvT they need to either make Infestor's cheaper or fungal easier to use to deal with mass bio.
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Plz no winfestors ever again.
 
K

kasane

Member
Granted that i hate daedalus but i dont think making the ramp smaller is the best decision, it'll be just like the standard maps around. Maybe do something crazy as pushing away the third base i dont know but SC is just getting stale it needs some kind of design change aside from the balance.
 
Z

Zen

Banned
kasane said:
Granted that i hate daedalus but i dont think making the ramp smaller is the best decision, it'll be just like the standard maps around. Maybe do something crazy as pushing away the third base i dont know but SC is just getting stale it needs some kind of design change aside from the balance.
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Blame Protoss design for completely restricting map design.
Blame SCII for making mining faster and having bonus macro mechanics that also help increase production, making steam rolling a big 'thing' in how the game works. Thereby encouraging all ins or passive play. Winning engagements with quick reinforcements means it's much harder to come back from behind.

But seriously LotV will be coming sooner rather than later.
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
It's all David Kim's fault.

iP2jcc4PsdLkV.gif
 
H

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Zen said:
Blame Protoss design for completely restricting map design.
Blame SCII for making mining faster and having bonus macro mechanics that also help increase production, making steam rolling a big 'thing' in how the game works. Thereby encouraging all ins or passive play. Winning engagements with quick reinforcements means it's much harder to come back from behind.

But seriously LotV will be coming sooner rather than later.
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Faster mining is okay, having worker and mining saturation past 3 base be BAD is the dumb part (Cost, time, map control, worker supply)
 
Z

Zen

Banned
They really are trying to create more map dependent strategies etc, but they should really do something insane like remove blinks ability to blink up to high ground or something, and remove force-fields and re-balance Protoss (replace colossi). They're really the biggest issue for ALL of SCII design at this point.

Hopefully Legacy of the Void actually goes a little nuts in fixing long standing game design issues.

Also while we're talking about this, why the heck wasn't recall ever given a unit cap? It was originally there so that Protoss players could do some aggression early without it having to turn into an all in (mainly in PvZ right?). In Starbow it have a recall cap of 12, which makes sense for the intended purpose. Why not just do something like that but also have an uber expensive upgrade to increase the limit, and make it unlimited with Mothership for the lulz?

Hazaro said:
Faster mining is okay, having worker and mining saturation past 3 base be BAD is the dumb part (Cost, time, map control, worker supply)
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Yeah, I meant to say that but my brain spaced out for some reason. I wonder how easy it would be to 'fix' SCII mining (and adjust mineral amounts per patch) and if it would improve the game noticeably over time? How did Starbow go about tweaking mining ai?
 
H

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Zen said:
Yeah, I meant to say that but my brain spaced out for some reason. I wonder how easy it would be to 'fix' SCII mining (and adjust mineral amounts per patch) and if it would improve the game noticeably over time? How did Starbow go about tweaking mining ai?
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Less patches, 1 geyser. Frees up worker supply and the costs for macro stuff are different.
Queen injections only speed up larva production, you can't stockpile them. No MULE stacking it's calldown SCV instead, Protoss I forget.
 
A

AdventureRacing

Member
Removing blinking onto the high ground would really suck. There are plenty of ways to deal with blink all ins without crippling a really fun ability.

Removing FF's i agree with. Removing collosi i agree with (reavers make FAR more sense). Re balancing the race could also dramatically improve the game. I just don't think there is any chance in hell blizzard would ever make those decisions so it's hardly worth worrying about. It sucks but that's the way it is.

At the least i hope they have a look at really weak units and try to make them useful. So many units are just really boring or just plain bad.

I think the problem with all this is how blizzard does balance patches. They take forever, are only really minor changes with seemingly no input from the community and often just seem random or dumb. We will never see significant changes or improvements with that approach imo.

Edit: Apollo's stream is awesome. Nice to see a caster who actually enjoys the game and is decent at it, that plus he's really entertaining.
 
Z

Zen

Banned
Yeah, even as I was typing some of those I knew that they wouldn't all work. I'm just frustrated by many little things with how the game works that I've just started throwing shit at the wall out of frustration. That being said I just got proxy tempest rushed on ladder and had a blast (losing to it). Next game I showed someo0ne the mass raven TvZ style for the first time. So it's not like the game has to be completely stale, but there's a lot of relatively small things that could be done to help keep the game fresh and more flexible for future innovations.

Is there particular reason why we don't see gas-less bases, i gas bases, starting with a 1 gas base? that sort of thing? Does it mess up the balance in some way? I feel like introducing these to official maps would be a great way to creating maps that have different tempo and strategies.

The maps all feel very samey because 90% of them are very samey.

EDIT: Checking out his stream.
 
A

AdventureRacing

Member
Zen said:
Yeah, even as I was typing some of those I knew that they wouldn't all work. I'm just frustrated by many little things with how the game works that I've just started throwing shit at the wall out of frustration. That being said I just got proxy tempest rushed on ladder and had a blast (losing to it). Next game I showed someo0ne the mass raven TvZ style for the first time. So it's not like the game has to be completely stale, but there's a lot of relatively small things that could be done to help keep the game fresh and more flexible for future innovations.

Is there particular reason why we don't see gas-less bases, i gas bases, starting with a 1 gas base? that sort of thing? Does it mess up the balance in some way? I feel like introducing these to official maps would be a great way to creating maps that have different tempo and strategies.

The maps all feel very samey because 90% of them are very samey.
Click to expand...

Because blizzard aren't really interesting in making big changes. I'm pretty sure they said in the past that they're mostly happy and are only looking at small changes now. The maps are all 90% samey because the game in its current state is so hard to make any changes without destroying balance (in large part because of how they designed protoss).

I do think despite the problems the map pool could EASILY be more varied. I'm not sure why we haven't seen people trying interesting maps. Possibly because no one would try them because touraments and the ladder dominant everything and they always have those same boring maps.

I wish we would see more just making some big changes and seeing what impact they have. Especially if they're going with test maps. Have them going all the time. As i've said earlier you could even make it a community lead thing, coming up with and testing ideas. There are plenty of people willing to try it (it's actually pretty fun).
 
G

giri

Member
AdventureRacing said:
Because blizzard aren't really interesting in making big changes. I'm pretty sure they said in the past that they're mostly happy and are only looking at small changes now. The maps are all 90% samey because the game in its current state is so hard to make any changes without destroying balance (in large part because of how they designed protoss).

I do think despite the problems the map pool could EASILY be more varied. I'm not sure why we haven't seen people trying interesting maps. Possibly because no one would try them because touraments and the ladder dominant everything and they always have those same boring maps.

I wish we would see more just making some big changes and seeing what impact they have. Especially if they're going with test maps. Have them going all the time. As i've said earlier you could even make it a community lead thing, coming up with and testing ideas. There are plenty of people willing to try it (it's actually pretty fun).
Click to expand...

There was a big thing about fan created maps earlier in the sc2 life cycle. i believe blizz changed the license, and everything you create in game, they own. So map makers weren't allowed to work for commission, because blizz ruled that as selling in game content. something only they can do.

or something bizzare like that.

Daedulus has problems, obviously, but i like that it's something new and different. I'm sort of torn on whether i want it in, or out, of the map pool.
 
S

SamuraiX-

Member
Jaedong Challenges Flash

Team Liquid said:
EezQZjf.jpg


EG's Jaedong has challenged Flash to meet him for individual leagues.

Since JD's move to EG, a foreign team, he no longer participates in Proleague, so the only way for JD and Flash to meet are either through overseas tournaments or WCS Korea leagues. Also, in order for JD and Flash to meet, Flash has to rise to the top and place high in individual leagues.

The reason JD has called Flash out is because he is disappointed that rivalries in eSports are diminishing. The rivalry between JD and Flash is called the LeeSsangRok, and it is known as the second best rivalry of all time, right behind the best rivalry of all time between BoxeR and YellOw, AKA LimJinRok, However, for over a year now, since the start of 2013, the LeeSsangRok has never taken place. It's not just JD who's upset about this, but all the eager fans as well.

After reading Daily eSports' special Chinese New Year "Man to Man" interview with YellOw, JD stated that he now realizes just how important it is for rivalries to exist. JD feels that this rivalry between him and Flash is no mere simple rivalry, that it holds an important influence in the StarCraft scene, and that he would like to develop a story for the SC2 scene and bring forth an issue to the SC2 scene through this rivalry and entertain the fans.

After JD read YellOw's statement about how his rivalry with BoxeR was the motivation behind both his and eSports' growth, and that he is always grateful to BoxeR because of that, JD stated that he felt something spark inside him, and that as soon as he heard YellO'w's story, he yearned so much to face Flash again.

JD also stated that he knows just how well Flash has consistently been performing in Proleague to this very day. Therefore, JD would like Flash to get rid off this pressure that he has to do well, so that Flash can approach his individual league matches with a calm mindset, so that two can meet at a high place again no matter what. JD hopes that Flash will do his absolute best from now on.
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I fucking love Jaedong.
 
C

Crimsonlink

Member
I think Flash can actually beat JD. Its just that he doesn't go to many foreign tourneys like JD does thanks to EG.

He does underperform in individual tournaments but he is a monster in Proleague.
 
U

unknownstranger

Member
Crimsonlink said:
Some help for newbies and those struggling in lower leagues.

The videos he made really helped me out so check it out!

As for the patch, I'm happy its a step in the right direction. They are also putting out a balance map for the vision nerf and hydra buff so at least Blizz looks like they are listening.

Wonder if Gom had to scream at them to get the patch through to avoid complete PvP and PvZ lol.
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Almost any Hydralisk buff they try to make them viable in ZvT will make them OP in ZvP. All they really could do is remove the speed buff and make it baked in.
 
S

SamuraiX-

Member
giri said:
Is it props when the change literally happened the day of?

Oh well.
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Well, they can sometimes really drag out balance updates from the time they propose them to when they're put in place even if they're clearly needed.

These ones that just went live were proposed a little less than two weeks ago, so that's pretty good for DK. :p
 
Z

Zen

Banned
Yeah, not to say that he hasn't been shakey in individual tournaments, but JD has had the benefit of being in NA and flying out to a billion individual leagues all year. Flash has stayed in Proleague and Korea for the most part.
 
Z

Zen

Banned
Hazaro said:
Less patches, 1 geyser. Frees up worker supply and the costs for macro stuff are different.
Queen injections only speed up larva production, you can't stockpile them. No MULE stacking it's calldown SCV instead, Protoss I forget.
Click to expand...

AdventureRacing said:
Because blizzard aren't really interesting in making big changes. I'm pretty sure they said in the past that they're mostly happy and are only looking at small changes now. The maps are all 90% samey because the game in its current state is so hard to make any changes without destroying balance (in large part because of how they designed protoss).

I do think despite the problems the map pool could EASILY be more varied. I'm not sure why we haven't seen people trying interesting maps. Possibly because no one would try them because touraments and the ladder dominant everything and they always have those same boring maps.

I wish we would see more just making some big changes and seeing what impact they have. Especially if they're going with test maps. Have them going all the time. As i've said earlier you could even make it a community lead thing, coming up with and testing ideas. There are plenty of people willing to try it (it's actually pretty fun).
Click to expand...

I think I'm going to start modifying a map myself and see how it plays for fun. Might post it here w/e.

World Cyber Games is shutting down!
http://www.ongamers.com/articles/wo...-all-tournaments-and-events-in-2014/1100-820/


Pure CTF - A new Starcraft II Arcade game by GameHeart
Trailer: See it in action here

Gameheart guy said:
Hey guys! After working on GameHeart for more than a month straight of long days, I decided to take a break last week and used that time to work on an arcade game.
It's really hard to get your arcade game noticed in SC2, so I really hope you guys will give mine a try. I tried to make it as easy to get in and play as possible, while still keeping it dynamic and interesting.
I will be on NA trying to get some games going. I suggest anyone wanting to try it come to NA so it is more likely to find a game.
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Warships lives!
72XIGY6M4QT21368204089902.jpg

Warships isn't dead, undergoing complete rebuild, monthly balance updates in meantime led by community requests
See how Warships works here: http://youtu.be/4deNH1LtPxw
Official forums: http://warships.freeforums.org/


Feb 4th Patch notes said:
General
Total minerals available for mining reduced by 10%.
Respawn time changed: 60 sec -> 45 sec + 1 sec for each minute passed

Terran
Missile Launcher dps reduced: 5 (+5 vs armored) -> 4 (+5 vs armored)
Plasma Battery dps reduced: 5 (+5 vs shields-> 4 (+5 vs shields
Hangar cost reduced to 700.
Fighters now cost 100.
Bomb Bay life increased: 2000 -> 3000
Point Defense rate of fire increased: 2 -> 1.8
Autocannon dps increased: 5 (+5 vs light) -> 6 (+4 vs light)
Artillery deals 20% extra damage against non-station targets.
Cannons now deal 33% extra damage against shields.
Torpedo Silos now store 2 torpedoes (3 when upgraded).
Mortar dps increased: 5 (-2.5 vs shields) -> 5 (-1.5 vs shields)

Missile Battleship
Nuke damage is now more concentrated (radius remains the same).
Cruise missile life reduced by 200 at all levels.

Mobile Shipyard
Refit now restores 1000(+750). Was 1500(+750).
Must be near a starbase to buy frigates.
Manufacturing no longer affects aircraft build speed.

Broadside Cruiser
Engineering Core heal reduced by 10%.
Strafe Drive speed reduced by 12.5%.

Defense Cruiser
Fixed a bug causing mines to deal only 25% of their damage.
Platform will no longer grant XP when attacked by enemy ships.

Stealth Cruiser
Stealth cooldown increased by 0.5 sec.

Eternity
Movement speed increased by 10%.
Stargates now cost double but provide double supply.
Observers now require 2 supply.

Okay, done. All credit to zuPloed. As I said, I'm going to start publishing monthly balance updates for all my content, so don't worry too much if something is missing.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
 
S

SamuraiX-

Member
Ender's Game on Blu-Ray Tournament is on!

Currently showing Illusion's group. <3


Also, this was interesting: Q&A with David Kim - February 5, 2014

And a highlights thread at Team Liquid: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=442782

Some hilarious tidbits:
David Kim said:
Question said:
Why are the developers so resistant towards the idea of changing Warp Gate and Forcefield?

These two specific items have been criticized since the game's beginning as one of the chief reasons Protoss feels more death-bally than the other races, (along with the collosus) and yet there's never been any interest on the developer's part to even have a discussion about them.

Why so resistant? What is so special about Warp Gate and Forcefield that makes them immune in balance talks?
Click to expand...

We feel Warp Gates are very race defining for Protoss. It's a completely different way to produce units. Because we want every race to feel unique and asymmetric, we like the design of Warp Gates.

Warp Gates were problematic in the past when 1 base or 2 base all ins were too common. We've addressed this a lot in past years.

We've talked about our stance on Force Fields in the past, and it still remains unchanged. We feel like we get a lot of feedback from forums saying there's no micro anyone can do against Force Fields. However, we just don't see this. For example, why do Zerglings or roaches try to bait out Force Fields if micro against them is not possible? Terran players picking off units on one side of Force Fields and dropping them on the more favorable side is another good example. We believe Force Fields are a very unique ability that sometimes feel there was nothing you could do, but that is okay because there are varying degrees of successes and failures. That is just StarCraft: If DTs come in when I have no detectors I'm dead, but that doesn't mean there was nothing I could have done.
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Thank goodness that 1-base/2-base all ins aren't a problem anymore just because DK says so.

David Kim said:
Question said:
David,
What are your plans in order to make "forgotten" units such as Battlecruiser, Broodlord, Viper, etc. usable in high level matches?
Thanks!

Cheers!
Click to expand...

We've learned that capital units such as BCs, Carriers, or Motherships are rare and lose their cool if they were built every game. Imagine every PvT ending with BCs. We are discussing ways to make captial ships more interesting to use and watch so that we can bring these units into play more often in the future. But I wouldn't say there will be changes coming to make this happen any time soon, as this is a tricky area that potentially requires delicate design changes. As I said earlier today, we prefer not to do design changes in a patch if we can, because changing how the unit functions completely will be very confusing to players.
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Could you imagine every game in the history of StarCraft II TvP beginning and ending with Terran going pure bio with Vikings sometimes? OH WAIT

There are fucking Protoss players who haven't built a single Carrier in their entire career of televised matches.

David Kim said:
Question said:
Are you planning on helping terrans with blink allins? Terrans have to prepare for a possible two base blink allin, which is extremely hard to hold. It's also very hard to scout if the protoss hides it well. This possibility makes it impossible for terran to play greedy (while protoss players can, because of planetary nexus), and when terran prepares, it's still a very hard build to hold. Do you think there is a little problem when 1 race can greed and do some strong early game builds, while the other race can't greed and doesn't have strong early game builds?
Click to expand...

The patch yesterday we believe should help. In case that's not enough, we will be testing other changes soon in the next balance test map.
Click to expand...

Time Warp energy cost increased by 25, gaiz. Thank goodness Terrans only have to deal with a double Time Warp Blink all-ins now instead of triples.


At least he's trying, I guess. Props to him for coming out and respecting the community enough to hold a Q&A. Looks like that TL roundup had a bigger influence than we though.
 
K

kasane

Member
David Kim is an absolute ass

He needs to play terran in a tourney against a world class protoss and see how it goes

Edit: Forcefields should have hp

Recall is extremely convenient for toss so my suggestion is making recall cost 200 energy, that way toss needs to decide if they want the energy for time warps or recall

this is me talking out of my ass on what i think would help terran even a little bit and not necessarily good for toss
 
S

SamuraiX-

Member
kasane said:
David Kim is an absolute ass

He needs to play terran in a tourney against a world class protoss and see how it goes

Edit: Forcefields should have hp

Recall is extremely convenient for toss so my suggestion is making recall cost 200 energy, that way toss needs to decide if they want the energy for time warps or recall

this is me talking out of my ass on what i think would help terran even a little bit and not necessarily good for toss
Click to expand...

200 is overkill but 125-150? Absolutely.

Protoss should never ever fucking ever have the luxury of a Mass Recall plus a PO or Time Warp immediately after.

The motherfucking 250mm Strike Cannons ability on WoL Thors cost 150 energy and it was USELESS. Meanwhile, broken abilities like PO and Mass Recall are a measly 100 energy.
 
Z

Zen

Banned
SamuraiX- said:
Corran DA GODZ



E

Z

P

Z
Click to expand...

Huh, I think I'll incorporate this into my TvP builds.

Also this video highlights how much I enjoy the Proleague format. Everything is a real team effort, since every match (minus ACE) is known before hand every player on the team helps the others prepare for their matchups. They study each opponent and you get awesome things like the Dream side of the bench being all shit eating grins after somethign like that bobs and ties them back up.

Not that I won't also watch GSL format, but I love me my proleague. There seems to be more diversity of strategies over a night since it's bo1s.
 
C

Crimsonlink

Member
SamuraiX- said:
Z2pspCb.png


The Asian Qualifier is on NOW!

Terran hopes include: MMA, INnoVation, Flash, Maru, Dream, Ryung, FanTaSy, and MajOr!

Streams

Click to expand...


Innovation is playing like shit in the late game. Who the hell makes more than 70 workers when going mech? Also sticking to vikings vs mutas. Innovation needs a lesson on meching. He did good in the first game but Soulkey was caught off guard. I don't think he is winning this map on Frost unless Soulkey makes mistakes.

Make 10 BCs and about 15 Ravens and you auto win most of the time minus money Fungals hitting.
 
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