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[Syf]

Apparently KeSPA is in the planning stages of hosting an international SC2 tournament in Korea.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=443045

 

[Zen]

New Pure CTF Update

I have added a new laser ability to Pure CTF. This ability is designed to allow you to punish players who sit still too long. The laser passes through force fields, so you can even throw down a force field to give yourself some cover before using it. It also destroys rockets so you can use it to go head to head with a rocket user at medium or long ranges if they are not mobile enough.

Here is a slightly old video of what the ability looks like
http://youtu.be/mi_Tzm68luw

The laser now takes about half the time to fire as it does in that video

My hope is this ability will prevent the type of 'sit back and fire rockets across the map' type of strategy we see many people attempting, particularly in sudden death.

Please give this new update a try and let me know what you think. Remember the laser is not supposed to replace your primary weapon, like the grenade it is situational so do not expect to be able to use it continually with success.

And thank you to Kenoli (creator of Uberena and Fatty Fight) for his help with creating the laser ability.

StarCraft Universe PTR hits 1.11 UI Lag gone
VIDEO http://youtu.be/NSD-rkfMkRU

Title says it all. This thing is actually amazing. I remember when the first release came out, I was pretty disappointed. It felt almost unplayable to me. But they've been hard at work since then. The PTR is AWESOME. You're in a contained area with basically everything to try and test, a lot of quests (which dynamically alter the environment around you and let you get right to the meat of the game).

 

[SamuraiX-]

Ok who the hell is Revenge and how did he knock out Polt AND Ryung? I've seen this guy play in qualifiers before and he's usually getting knocked out by NA players. Whatever. As long as he beats HerO/StarDust.

Edit: THERE ISN'T EVEN A WIKI PAGE FOR THIS GUY! But apparently he plays for Alien Invasion... If he makes it out of this one, could be career changing for him.

 

[survivor]

Ok who the hell is Revenge and how did he knock out Polt AND Ryung? I've seen this guy play in qualifiers before and he's usually getting knocked out by NA players. Whatever. As long as he beats HerO/StarDust.

Edit: THERE ISN'T EVEN A WIKI PAGE FOR THIS GUY! But apparently he plays for Alien Invasion... If he makes it out of this one, could be career changing for him.

Yeah I just came back home and was looking at the results and I'm like "who the fuck is Revenge" Gonna be interesting to see if he can beat Stardust.

 

[SamuraiX-]

Yeah I just came back home and was looking at the results and I'm like "who the fuck is Revenge" Gonna be interesting to see if he can beat Stardust.

StarDust recently lost 0-2 to Polt at DreamHack Winter... And Revenge 2-0'd Polt in these qualifiers... Therefore:

Revenge > Polt > StarDust

 

[Syf]

Revenge played some good mech against Polt. Didn't see the Ryung games.

 

[survivor]

Stardust 3-0ed Revenge
༼ つ ◕_◕༽つ THE POWER OF PROTOSS mYinsanity ༼ つ ◕_◕༽つ

 

[Crimsonlink]

Stardust 3-0ed Revenge
༼ つ ◕_◕༽つ THE POWER OF PROTOSS mYinsanity ༼ つ ◕_◕༽つ

God those games were onesided. It was disgusting to watch.

 

[SamuraiX-]

Thank goodness Terrans don't have to worry about Blink all-ins anymore after that Time Warp nerf.

 

[Syf]

lol terran tears so sweet l2p

 

[Zen]

lol terran tears so sweet l2p

On that note

http://youtu.be/cljqJ2bmdkg

 

[unknownstranger]

On that note

http://youtu.be/cljqJ2bmdkg

Zerg thinking what Protoss do made me laugh because it's basically true. Unless Protoss gets really greedy, they can defend almost any early Zerg push with decent force fields.

 

[Crimsonlink]

Minigun won Ender's game tourney. At least Foreigners have won a tournament for this year already. Polt and Violet played so there were some Koreans.

It wasn't international but its a start.

But the end was a PvP which is just stupid at this point. Karma might be getting us back for all the TvT and ZvZ finals from back in WOL but this is getting ridiculous.

We never had this happen so many times in a row in a short timeframe.

GSL took weeks to finish. We are now getting tourneys that end in PvP weekly. Sometimes in a few days. ;_;

Really hope that next balance map is coming ASAP. Hope DK is really struggling with how to fix the match up for PvZ and PvT. Because that Ghost Buff bandage over the flesh wound that is TvP is still bleeding out. While PvZ is a Lategame nightmare.

 

[unknownstranger]

Late game PvZ won't change unless Blizz nerfs Vipers or Swarm Hosts. Making Vipers unable to yank massive would fix PvZ but cripple us against mech.

 

[Crimsonlink]

Late game PvZ won't change unless Blizz nerfs Vipers or Swarm Hosts. Making Vipers unable to yank massive would fix PvZ but cripple us against mech.

Swarm Hosts are the main problem. Vipers a Protoss has to feedback or its their own fault just like Terrans have to use Ghosts or Vikings to deal with Vipers or risk losing their expensive units/tank lines.

The respawn rate of locusts might be something Blizzard should look into. Free units that spawn too often right after the previous expires makes punishing it them harder than it needs to be.

 

[SamuraiX-]

 

[Syf]

lmao

God I love that video.

 

[Syphon Filter]

wtf


edit: Biskie where is the vid?

 

[Syf]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gW_XeWlkPI

Corran posted it yesterday.

 

[unknownstranger]

Swarm Hosts are the main problem. Vipers a Protoss has to feedback or its their own fault just like Terrans have to use Ghosts or Vikings to deal with Vipers or risk losing their expensive units/tank lines.

The respawn rate of locusts might be something Blizzard should look into. Free units that spawn too often right after the previous expires makes punishing it them harder than it needs to be.

Terran's need to learn to play mech more like bio with constant hellion/hellbat harass. Going Swarm Hosts/Muta's is extremely expensive and 4 blue flame hellions can destroy a drone line fast.

 

[Zen]

Terran's need to learn to play mech more like bio with constant hellion/hellbat harass. Going Swarm Hosts/Muta's is extremely expensive and 4 blue flame hellions can destroy a drone line fast.

That's how I've been working on my mech, constant drops in TvP and TvZ.

 

[giri]

Terran's need to learn to play mech more like bio with constant hellion/hellbat harass. Going Swarm Hosts/Muta's is extremely expensive and 4 blue flame hellions can destroy a drone line fast.

Isn't that flawed though?

Mech armies aren't mobile enough to take advantage of an army slightly out of place to deal with a drop.

By the time you have a sizeable mech army, muta's should be on the map to clean up drops or shut them down anyway.

And it means you're probably constantly losing medivacs, so have to replace them and not work towards skyterran or deal without them.

Whilst they should be used, i don't think thats the problem/solution.

 

[unknownstranger]

Isn't that flawed though?

Mech armies aren't mobile enough to take advantage of an army slightly out of place to deal with a drop.

By the time you have a sizeable mech army, muta's should be on the map to clean up drops or shut them down anyway.

And it means you're probably constantly losing medivacs, so have to replace them and not work towards skyterran or deal without them.

Whilst they should be used, i don't think thats the problem/solution.

You don't even need Medivacs. Just send out 4-6 hellions at a time and run around bases killing drones until the Muta's or Roaches come back. If Terran keeps their early hellions alive they can build a fast medivac and drop them before Muta's are out.

 

[Aaron]

Terran's need to learn to play mech more like bio with constant hellion/hellbat harass. Going Swarm Hosts/Muta's is extremely expensive and 4 blue flame hellions can destroy a drone line fast.

Hellion drops aren't done anymore because by the time you have the medivacs the zerg will either have mutas, which will demolish this investment in nothing flat, or some combination of high queen count, zerglings, and maybe roaches, which are more than enough to deal with the drop. Considering their utility, mutas are cheap and with their ability to harass and defend, zerg is more or less free to expand until going swarm hosts is affordable. Maybe you'll be very lucky that the zerg doesn't go muta, but when they're so overpowered, why wouldn't they?

You don't even need Medivacs. Just send out 4-6 hellions at a time and run around bases killing drones until the Muta's or Roaches come back. If Terran keeps their early hellions alive they can build a fast medivac and drop them before Muta's are out.

Some terran have tried this. They do some damage, it's shut down by the time the mutas come out. Then they transition into thors since they're stuck on mech, and thors have become a joke against mutas. The thors get destroyed, and their bases get wrecked by a massive zerg runby. Unless the zerg makes a major screw up, this tactic doesn't seem to work.

In fact, Supernova tried this against Leenock in the recent GSL. Didn't work out for him.

 

[giri]

You don't even need Medivacs. Just send out 4-6 hellions at a time and run around bases killing drones until the Muta's or Roaches come back. If Terran keeps their early hellions alive they can build a fast medivac and drop them before Muta's are out.

Well.

Thats sort of the whole point of going 2 - 6 hellions straight out of the factory in mech builds.

Problem is, zergs (and everyone) know they're coming and are relatively easy to scout. a spine or two and they get shut down.

And with a mech army being so immobile, most opponents don't have to baby sit that screen microing constantly.

 

[unknownstranger]

Hellion drops aren't done anymore because by the time you have the medivacs the zerg will either have mutas, which will demolish this investment in nothing flat, or some combination of high queen count, zerglings, and maybe roaches, which are more than enough to deal with the drop. Considering their utility, mutas are cheap and with their ability to harass and defend, zerg is more or less free to expand until going swarm hosts is affordable. Maybe you'll be very lucky that the zerg doesn't go muta, but when they're so overpowered, why wouldn't they?


Some terran have tried this. They do some damage, it's shut down by the time the mutas come out. Then they transition into thors since they're stuck on mech, and thors have become a joke against mutas. The thors get destroyed, and their bases get wrecked by a massive zerg runby. Unless the zerg makes a major screw up, this tactic doesn't seem to work.

In fact, Supernova tried this against Leenock in the recent GSL. Didn't work out for him.

I went to bed early last night so I didn't see much of GSL, but I've seen it happen multiple times. It comes down to constantly harassing Zerg's 3rd and not letting them get the economy to build a lot of Swarm Hosts with Muta's.

 

[SamuraiX-]

You don't even need Medivacs. Just send out 4-6 hellions at a time and run around bases killing drones until the Muta's or Roaches come back. If Terran keeps their early hellions alive they can build a fast medivac and drop them before Muta's are out.

Yeah, much easier said than done. Any Zerg with decent creep spread, Overlord spread and static defense shut down these kind of tactics pretty easily.

It can also be very map-specific. Some maps support Zerg so much when it comes to get a quick 4-5 bases.

 

[Crimsonlink]

Terran's need to learn to play mech more like bio with constant hellion/hellbat harass. Going Swarm Hosts/Muta's is extremely expensive and 4 blue flame hellions can destroy a drone line fast.

So is going mech or other high tech units. lol ;b

Yeah hellions are good for killing drones but not bases which is the main problem. By the time Zerg has 3 bases and you are going mech, you usually cannot deny the 4th hatch. The money Zerg can build up is insane and the larvae saved up is a faster remax.

Constant back and forth with the loss of units on both sides until a huge swell of SH's locusts appear that make moving tanks around hard due to defense. That is when SkyTerran has to happen for Terran to win with BC and Ravens.

 

[Aaron]

Constant back and forth with the loss of units on both sides until a huge swell of SH's locusts appear that make moving tanks around hard due to defense. That is when SkyTerran has to happen for Terran to win with BC and Ravens.

Terran air units would have to be completely revamped. Vikings are too slow, ravens are too fragile, banshees get detected too easily, and BCs... you'll never get to BCs.

 

[kasane]

Terran air units would have to be completely revamped. Vikings are too slow, ravens are too fragile, banshees get detected too easily, and BCs... you'll never get to BCs.

mech is only fun when the zerg goes swarmhosts. constant pushing and defending with tanks, pushing zerg's swarmhosts is one of the best feelings in sc ( aside from utterly demolishing a protoss player's soul )

 

[Syf]

( aside from utterly demolishing a protoss player's soul )

they don't have those

 

[giri]

Terran air units would have to be completely revamped. Vikings are too slow, ravens are too fragile, banshees get detected too easily, and BCs... you'll never get to BCs.

I actually feel like some part of the problem is that skyterran is almost impossible to really get to. So you know the composition that a terran is going to bring. And can work on hard countering it.

And even then, it's never a surprise tech switch ala toss, that you can be caught off guard by.

I've got lots of random thoughts on the topic tho :|

 

[unknownstranger]

Terran air units would have to be completely revamped. Vikings are too slow, ravens are too fragile, banshees get detected too easily, and BCs... you'll never get to BCs.

Lol Ravens fragile? Throw down a few point defense drones and they're basically invincible. Only way Zerg can deal with them is Infestor's, but if there's a decent ground army, they can't get near them. Terran could use an air unit to deal with Muta's better but if anything Ravens need nerfed or Corruptors need buffed.

 

[Aaron]

One of the terran's biggest handicaps is the rigid tech order. Being the only race that has to build multiple tech structures means you're stuck with what you commit to, and your opponent will know what you committed to fairly early.

Lol Ravens fragile? Throw down a few point defense drones and they're basically invincible. Only way Zerg can deal with them is Infestor's, but if there's a decent ground army, they can't get near them. Terran could use an air unit to deal with Muta's better but if anything Ravens need nerfed or Corruptors need buffed.

Why would you nerf a unit that's almost completely unused by pros? Might as well nerf carriers too.

 

[kasane]

CHOO CHOO MOTHER FUCKER

 

[Zen]

Isn't that flawed though?

Mech armies aren't mobile enough to take advantage of an army slightly out of place to deal with a drop.

By the time you have a sizeable mech army, muta's should be on the map to clean up drops or shut them down anyway.

And it means you're probably constantly losing medivacs, so have to replace them and not work towards skyterran or deal without them.

Whilst they should be used, i don't think thats the problem/solution.

Hellion runby, and you can certainly get medivacs pre-muta and be safe versus any all ins. Even then, Medivac drops with mech can work better than bio drops because you're dropping high damage, high splash Hellbats/Hellions right on top of the mineral line, Mutas can't be everwhere at once, especially when their muta flock needs to be focused on harassing the mech player to slow down his push timings.

When bio drops you have that ramp up DPS period as more bio has to come out of the dropship one by one. Mech drops scale almost instantly.

Beside that, you don't need to convert purely to sky terran imo, but even before that is the case, 2 reactor 1 tech lab starport can say 'you know what, this cycle I'm only going to build 4 viking and instead of 5' or '3 viking 1 raven and a medivac'.

 

[kasane]

Hellion runby, and you can certainly get medivacs pre-muta and be safe versus any all ins. Even then, Medivac drops with mech can work better than bio drops because you're dropping high damage, high splash Hellbats/Hellions right on top of the mineral line, Mutas can't be everwhere at once, especially when their muta flock needs to be focused on harassing the mech player to slow down his push timings.

When bio drops you have that ramp up DPS period as more bio has to come out of the dropship one by one. Mech drops scale almost instantly.

but dropping hellbats to a person who watches the map doesnt work since they are slow as fuck, you are disrupting mining time tho.

 

[Zen]

but dropping hellbats to a person who watches the map doesnt work since they are slow as fuck, you are disrupting mining time tho.

True, but most zerg won't be that perfect, not at most of our levels. Thta's also why I like using 4 hellions sometimes too, since you can queue click on drones that would be pulled, and chase them down. It depends on how well you see your opnent reacting, hellions are by no means a bad drop.

I'm still thinking about transformation servos and doing double drop into 8 hellbats for killing tech, but I haven't experimented with that yet. Seems like it would only be good for awkward situations during the late game. Too big of a commitment otherwise.

 

[giri]

Hellion runby, and you can certainly get medivacs pre-muta and be safe versus any all ins. Even then, Medivac drops with mech can work better than bio drops because you're dropping high damage, high splash Hellbats/Hellions right on top of the mineral line, Mutas can't be everwhere at once, especially when their muta flock needs to be focused on harassing the mech player to slow down his push timings.

When bio drops you have that ramp up DPS period as more bio has to come out of the dropship one by one. Mech drops scale almost instantly.

Beside that, you don't need to convert purely to sky terran imo, but even before that is the case, 2 reactor 1 tech lab starport can say 'you know what, this cycle I'm only going to build 4 viking and instead of 5' or '3 viking 1 raven and a medivac'.

Doing a lot of drops early with mech is incredibly risky though. You don't normally have a ton of units left behind, and are really susceptible to a counter attack.

 

[unknownstranger]

One of the terran's biggest handicaps is the rigid tech order. Being the only race that has to build multiple tech structures means you're stuck with what you commit to, and your opponent will know what you committed to fairly early.


Why would you nerf a unit that's almost completely unused by pros? Might as well nerf carriers too.

How many times have you seen Terran lose against Zerg with Ravens?

 

[Aaron]

Doing a lot of drops early with mech is incredibly risky though. You don't normally have a ton of units left behind, and are really susceptible to a counter attack.

Also losing that drop to spores or mutas early on can be a difficult blow to recover from.

How many times have you seen Terran lose against Zerg with Ravens?

Isn't this like proving a negative? I know I haven't seen a terran win against zerg with ravens in the past year, but certainly could have been games I've missed.

 

[Zen]

Doing a lot of drops early with mech is incredibly risky though. You don't normally have a ton of units left behind, and are really susceptible to a counter attack.

Ehhhhhhhhh. I mean the 2 base muta all in is at what, 10 minutes? As long as you're getting your factory two tech labs after your two armory, and you DON'T scout spire, you can get two seige tanks instead of 2 thors.

With Flash mech build as an expample. Am I really losing that much by cutting an early banshee (probably the 2nd) to use my 4 hellions in a drop with a medivac instead? That will absolutely hit pre mutas, and if an all in is coming I'll still have Seige tank and maybe 2 banshee's out before some 2 base (or 3rd hatch for production) ling bane or roach ling/bane all in right?

I think I'd be ok provided I scout it (or at least the push out) and lift to my main, or pull the SCVs preemptively.

I normally use variations of, or strictly:

http://www.reddit.com/r/AllThingsTerran/comments/1vmbzg/flash_mech_build_order_vs_drg/

But am also going to try out

http://www.reddit.com/r/AllThingsTerran/comments/1xdx6l/tvz_build_order_yumes_15_min_22_mech_push/

To be fair, I don't normally lose against Zerg these days, so my perspective could be all weird and the timings in my head might be all wrong?

EDIT:

And Kretocs Mass Raven build on Habitation Station, though it can be shut down hard if it's anticipated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lQId5CiXkM&list=PL6zS_SD7fCL30xDVeRK3Fq1_EgX0SYMNW&feature=share

 

[giri]

Ehhhhhhhhh. I mean the 2 base muta all in is at what, 10 minutes? As long as you're getting your factory two tech labs after your two armory, and you DON'T scout spire, you can get two seige tanks instead of 2 thors.

With Flash mech build as an expample. Am I really losing that much by cutting an early banshee (probably the 2nd) to use my 4 hellions in a drop with a medivac instead? That will absolutely hit pre mutas, and if an all in is coming I'll still have Seige tank and maybe 2 banshee's out before some 2 base (or 3rd hatch for production) ling bane or roach ling/bane all in right?

I think I'd be ok provided I scout it (or at least the push out) and lift to my main, or pull the SCVs preemptively.

I normally use variations of, or strictly:

http://www.reddit.com/r/AllThingsTerran/comments/1vmbzg/flash_mech_build_order_vs_drg/

But am also going to try out

http://www.reddit.com/r/AllThingsTerran/comments/1xdx6l/tvz_build_order_yumes_15_min_22_mech_push/

To be fair, I don't normally lose against Zerg these days, so my perspective could be all weird and the timings in my head might be all wrong?

EDIT:

And Kretocs Mass Raven build on Habitation Station, though it can be shut down hard if it's anticipated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lQId5CiXkM&list=PL6zS_SD7fCL30xDVeRK3Fq1_EgX0SYMNW&feature=share

Is there a particularly great advantage to hellion drop over hellion run by in the early game? i'd assume a hellion run by has a better chance of doing damage, as it would hit earlier, and come up against less.

 

[SamuraiX-]

Related to nerfing Swarm Hosts, there's a lot they can do without completely breaking the unit. My thing is that a group of Swarm Hosts should never ever ever be allowed to easily situate themselves in an offensive position without any support from the rest of the Zerg army. This happens way too frequently.

My suggestions:

• Nerf Locust speed on creep to 2.25 (currently at 2.625), allowing opponents to close the distance to Swarm Hosts easier.
• Increase Enduring Locusts upgrade time from 120 seconds to 170-180 seconds OR decrease the cost from 200/200 to 100/100 or 150/150 and make it give Locusts only a 5 second increased lifespan instead of 10 seconds.
• Increase the cooldown on the Spawn Locusts ability from 25 seconds to 35-40 seconds.

Swarm Hosts should be used solely as a support unit, not a primary damage dealing cannon. The suggestion I have in bold is my preferred one. It forces Zerg to actually burrow micro their Swarm Hosts instead of just leaving them parked in one spot for half the game. Ideally I'd like to see all three thrown in there.

 

[Zen]

Well if you're dropping, I'd suggest dropping the main. I mean usually early game ish they'd be sim city-ing for natural runby's or the third being pressured. I don't know, if for instance, it's worth it to skip the banshee early because of how good they can be when micro'd early with killing queens etc. But I mean you can probably catch a lot of z with their pants down with a main drop and then quickly drop to the third if you're gosu and they've over droned or something.

EDIT: or are relying a bit too much on queens for early defense

 

[kasane]

Related to nerfing Swarm Hosts, there's a lot they can do without completely breaking the unit. My thing is that a group of Swarm Hosts should never ever ever be allowed to easily situate themselves in an offensive position without any support from the rest of the Zerg army. This happens way too frequently.

My suggestions:

• Nerf Locust speed on creep to 2.25 (currently at 2.625), allowing opponents to close the distance to Swarm Hosts easier.
• Increase Enduring Locusts upgrade time from 120 seconds to 170-180 seconds OR decrease the cost from 200/200 to 100/100 or 150/150 and make it give Locusts only a 5 second increased lifespan instead of 10 seconds.
• Increase the cooldown on the Spawn Locusts ability from 25 seconds to 35-40 seconds.

Swarm Hosts should be used solely as a support unit, not a primary damage dealing cannon. The suggestion I have in bold is my preferred one. It forces Zerg to actually burrow micro their Swarm Hosts instead of just leaving them parked in one spot for half the game. Ideally I'd like to see all three thrown in there.

Lurker>swarm hosts

 

[unknownstranger]

Related to nerfing Swarm Hosts, there's a lot they can do without completely breaking the unit. My thing is that a group of Swarm Hosts should never ever ever be allowed to easily situate themselves in an offensive position without any support from the rest of the Zerg army. This happens way too frequently.

My suggestions:

• Nerf Locust speed on creep to 2.25 (currently at 2.625), allowing opponents to close the distance to Swarm Hosts easier.
• Increase Enduring Locusts upgrade time from 120 seconds to 170-180 seconds OR decrease the cost from 200/200 to 100/100 or 150/150 and make it give Locusts only a 5 second increased lifespan instead of 10 seconds.
• Increase the cooldown on the Spawn Locusts ability from 25 seconds to 35-40 seconds.

Swarm Hosts should be used solely as a support unit, not a primary damage dealing cannon. The suggestion I have in bold is my preferred one. It forces Zerg to actually burrow micro their Swarm Hosts instead of just leaving them parked in one spot for half the game. Ideally I'd like to see all three thrown in there.

First one I'm ok with, second one I'm fine with like a 30 second increase in research time, 3rd one would cripple us. 3rd idea means that there's 10-15 extra seconds where 30+ of our supply is worthless. I'm also ok with it taking a little longer for Swarm Hosts to burrow. Not the length of Spine and Spore Crawlers but somewhere in the middle.

 

[Zen]

I don't really mind them to be honest. Maybe slow down their spawn rate slightly, but have a cool down debuff when they're unburrowed and moving so that the locust boils on them regenerate faster? Force some more micro and maybe encourage re-positioning?

Maybe it's dumb?

 

[giri]

First one I'm ok with, second one I'm fine with like a 30 second increase in research time, 3rd one would cripple us. 3rd idea means that there's 10-15 extra seconds where 30+ of our supply is worthless. I'm also ok with it taking a little longer for Swarm Hosts to burrow. Not the length of Spine and Spore Crawlers but somewhere in the middle.

i think they're going to have to get nerfed slightly, and the first two don't really nerf them at all. But swhosts don't really seem like a massive problem.

 

[SamuraiX-]

IdrA Tribute

It's a GCC submission. Pretty gud.

Now we need one for MKP.