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//: StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm |OT| Like Riding a Bike

C

Corran Horn

May the Schwartz be with you
AppleSmack said:
Best Gif I have seen all year.
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artosis.gif
 
S

Sober

Member
Sorta want a boxed copy of this. I redownloaded SC2 today, but is there an additional install for HotS content (SP or otherwise) or can I just plug in the key and be good to go?
 
G

ghst

thanks for the laugh
Earthstrike said:
League of legends is more competitive than DOTA 2 in both how it was constructed, and the fact that Dota 2 still has some imbalances, primarily, the map.
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you consider buying characters and semi permanent buffs, along with a flattened out mechanical skill ceiling, elements of competitive construction?
 
E

Earthstrike

Member
Skab said:
I don't want to turn this thread into a giant League vs Dota 2 debate but...the map? Really?
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Of course the map. Pro Dota 2 players themselves have come out and said that the map asymmetry imbalances the game, namely with respect to rosham. There are some other things such as disparities in character viability. Icefrog, only know has access to a much larger degree of stats that he has had before to balance heroes. Perhaps we could look at the question a bit differently. What is an aspect of league of legends that is inherently unbalanced (or uncompetitive) at the top level of play? Not sure if these kinds of debates are allowed so if a mod says i'm supposed to stop, or this is not allowed, I will stop.

Edit: @ghst, I agree completely concerning that point. That is the primary source of imbalance in LOL. Certainly it is the case that it makes the game very imbalanced for players who weren't playing in the first year or two of the game's launch.
 
F

Felix Lighter

Member
I specifically remember a very one sided match that went into the super late game. I'm pretty sure it was MMA vs Stephano and MAA just toyed with him, dropping nuke after nuke. It was like he wanted to prove something.
 
G

ghst

thanks for the laugh
Earthstrike said:
Of course the map. Pro Dota 2 players themselves have come out and said that the map asymmetry imbalances the game, namely with respect to rosham. There are some other things such as disparities in character viability. Icefrog, only know has access to a much larger degree of stats that he has had before to balance heroes. Perhaps we could look at the question a bit differently. What is an aspect of league of legends that is inherently unbalanced (or uncompetitive) at the top level of play? Not sure if these kinds of debates are allowed so if a mod says i'm supposed to stop, or this is not allowed, I will stop.

Edit: @ghst, I agree completely concerning that point. That is the primary source of imbalance in LOL. Certainly it is the case that it makes the game very imbalanced for players who weren't playing in the first year or two of the game's launch.
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it's not just imbalance. i just can't possibly comprehend how you came to the conclusion that LoL is a more competitive construct, when almost every design disparity from dota is either there to give lower skilled players an easier ride or to finger their wallets.
 
T

Tacitus_

Member
antitrop said:
I just realized it's been nine months since I've pumped that glorious Metzen writing directly into my veins.

I can't wait until tomorrow, I'm going into Metzen-narrative withdrawals. It's just so bad, I love it ironically.
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It had such a nice start too. Bold outlines, some bad dialogue with cheesy music, but the goddamn jungle planet is so goddamn retarded.
 
S

Sibylus

Banned
Earthstrike said:
Of course the map. Pro Dota 2 players themselves have come out and said that the map asymmetry imbalances the game, namely with respect to rosham. There are some other things such as disparities in character viability. Icefrog, only know has access to a much larger degree of stats that he has had before to balance heroes. Perhaps we could look at the question a bit differently. What is an aspect of league of legends that is inherently unbalanced (or uncompetitive) at the top level of play? Not sure if these kinds of debates are allowed so if a mod says i'm supposed to stop, or this is not allowed, I will stop.

Edit: @ghst, I agree completely concerning that point. That is the primary source of imbalance in LOL. Certainly it is the case that it makes the game very imbalanced for players who weren't playing in the first year or two of the game's launch.
Click to expand...
Over the series of 2,516 competitive games, Dota Academy's win breakdown has Radiant with 1,304 (52%) and Dire with 1,212 (48%). Unlike hearsay, the numbers reveal that the map actually is quite balanced, with the Radiant leading the Dire by several percentage points (despite Dire's Roshan advantage).

Think we can safely can this nonsense about an unbalanced map.
 
E

Earthstrike

Member
ghst said:
it's not just imbalance. i just can't possibly comprehend how you came to the conclusion that LoL is a more competitive construct, when almost every aspect of its design is either there to give lower skilled players an easier ride or to finger their wallets.
Click to expand...

Lower skilled players an easier ride? Are you referring the absence of denying? When I look at a game, my judgement about its ability to be competitive is absent from the technical skill required to play the game. Really, I believe competitivity is about valuing strategy in a game, and not about valuing technical skill. Since this is a starcraft thread, we can recall the discussion of automine, and how rally points to farm minerals would be this horrendous thing that would lower the skillcap of the game. All it did was free up players APM so they could make meaningful, distinct decisions, instead of being really good at a mundane task. To me, a game being competitive is more about being able to make predictions about what the enemy is going to do and a very counter based metagame, than it is about being able to say "wow, he really hit those exact buttons, in that exact order!".

Edit: Well BO, I will be honest, I didn't actually know dire won less frequently had a slight advantage, but then again, how are we to know that the asymmetry doesn't give radiant a slight advantage. I can honestly say I don't know at this moment, but that there is a statistical test that can be applied to those win rates to determine if the map is imbalanced.
 
A

AppleSmack

Banned
calder said:
Wow that's sad. Trying to just cling to relevance, and hey thanks to the AC whaling controversy they know gamers are incredibly easy to rile up so expect more. :p
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Oh wow, that is the saddest thing I read all day.

Zerglings Have Feelings, Too" is intended to help players view StarCraft 2's Zerg species with empathy, director of marketing Joel Bartlett said
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...But they dont.
 
S

Sibylus

Banned
Earthstrike said:
Edit: Well BO, I will be honest, I didn't actually know dire won less frequently had a slight advantage, but then again, how are we to know that the asymmetry doesn't give radiant a slight advantage. I can honestly say I don't know at this moment, but that there is a statistical test that can be applied to those win rates to determine if the map is imbalanced.
Click to expand...
The map asymmetries do lend each side their own advantages, but over the course of many years they've been tweaked and tuned such that they essentially cancel each other out. I think those numbers bear the fact out that Icefrog and company have done an excellent job in achieving that aim. One doesn't need a symmetrical map to have a balanced map.
 
A

antitrop

Member
calder said:
Wow that's sad. Trying to just cling to relevance, and hey thanks to the AC whaling controversy they know gamers are incredibly easy to rile up so expect more. :p
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I'm pretty sure it's just kind of a big joke. There's actually nothing here to rile anyone up, they're just handing out some good humored pamphlet about Terran on Zerg violence.

I don't think they're actually trying to make any kind of statement or condemnation here. It's just a PR campaign.
 
C

calder

Member
antitrop said:
I'm pretty sure it's just kind of a big joke. There's actually nothing here to rile anyone up, they're just handing out some good humored pamphlet about Terran on Zerg violence.

I don't think they're actually trying to make any kind of statement or condemnation here. It's just a PR campaign.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it does read as light hearted, but after they made such hay with the goofy AC shit I just can't help but imagine a meeting at PETA where someone says "we got major traction from online nerds about the whaling game, let's really hit that quadrant!" as an intern opens a folder called VIDYAGAMES.
 
E

Earthstrike

Member
Bo said:
The map asymmetries do lend each side their own advantages, but over the course of many years they've been tweaked and tuned such that they essentially cancel each other out. I think those numbers bear the fact out that Icefrog and company have done an excellent job in achieving that aim. One doesn't need a symmetrical map to have a balanced map.
Click to expand...

I agree that the map doesn't have to be symmetrical to be balanced, but it is definitely much harder to balance the game with an asymmetrical map, than with one that has more symmetry. Like you said each side has its own strengths, but if thats true, that means each side lends itself to certain heroes. Well what happens each time a new hero is introduced or one is nerfed or buffed? It makes the challenge of game balance with respect to the map much greater.
 
G

ghst

thanks for the laugh
Earthstrike said:
Lower skilled players an easier ride? Are you referring the absence of denying? When I look at a game, my judgement about its ability to be competitive is absent from the technical skill required to play the game. Really, I believe competitivity is about valuing strategy in a game, and not about valuing technical skill. Since this is a starcraft thread, we can recall the discussion of automine, and how rally points to farm minerals would be this horrendous thing that would lower the skillcap of the game. All it did was free up players APM so they could make meaningful, distinct decisions, instead of being really good at a mundane task. To me, a game being competitive is more about being able to make predictions about what the enemy is going to do and a very counter based metagame, than it is about being able to say "wow, he really hit those exact buttons, in that exact order!".
Click to expand...

i feel like you're entrenched in cognitive dissonance and the evidence is in abundance, should you ever choose to be objective about it.

Hazaro said:
d2J42hg.jpg
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i can't believe it's taken this long to move away from in-game UIs. let's put that janky jerry rigged past behind us.
 
S

Sibylus

Banned
Earthstrike said:
I agree that the map doesn't have to be symmetrical to be balanced, but it is definitely much harder to balance the game with an asymmetrical map, than with one that has more symmetry. Like you said each side has its own strengths, but if thats true, that means each side lends itself to certain heroes. Well what happens each time a new hero is introduced or one is nerfed or buffed? It makes the challenge of game balance with respect to the map much greater.
Click to expand...
While that is true, Dota hasn't had to and doesn't abide by the standard balance cycle for your average release, there's ample time to push and prod the state of the balance back into an equilibrium. The proof is in the pudding, it's worked splendidly.
 
E

Earthstrike

Member
ghst said:
i feel like you're entrenched in cognitive dissonance and the evidence is in abundance, should you ever choose to be objective about it.
Click to expand...

How? I've been nothing but respectful this entire discussion so I don't see why you would need to throw such an insult at me. I have lots of time on both games, and my opinion is formulated on my experiences with them. I actually play Dota 2 atm and haven't touched lol for 2-3 months now. On what basis do you claim I have cognitive dissonance?
 
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