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[AppleSmack]

A lot of you are saying the game is super easy but I'm not really seeing it. The missions on char, especially the one where you spread the creep gave me a hell of a time on Hard. I barely survived that mission and couldn't get any of the achievements since those damn Gorgans (those huge planetary-like ships) were being spit out quite fast I can barely spread my creep in time. I did complete the bonus, even though it netted me no achievements at all.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

I guess for me that'd be the Ice Planet one.

Really just

Spoiler

having Raynor "dead" and Kerrigan on a warpath was all I really needed. Though ideally she'd have already been on a warpath because she doesn't need a dead boyfriend to want to kill Mengsk. But whatever.

And the evolving your units stuff is always fun.

Yeah the startup was just too slow, that first mission really should have been an optional tutorial, and the escape mission should have been a lot shorter if it was just going to be A-Moving the whole time.

Once the actual game begins, it's very good.

 

[duckroll]

A lot of you are saying the game is super easy but I'm not really seeing it. The missions on char, especially the one where you spread the creep gave me a hell of a time on Hard. I barely survived that mission and couldn't get any of the achievements since those damn Gorgans (those huge planetary-like ships) were being spit out quite fast I can barely spread my creep in time. I did complete the bonus, even though it netted me no achievements at all.

I think it's because if you play on Normal, the game feels very, very automatic. Higher difficulty levels is definitely the way to go for anyone who wants an actual game experience here.

 

[f0rk]

A lot of you are saying the game is super easy but I'm not really seeing it. The missions on char, especially the one where you spread the creep gave me a hell of a time on Hard. I barely survived that mission and couldn't get any of the achievements since those damn Gorgans (those huge planetary-like ships) were being spit out quite fast I can barely spread my creep in time.

You can drone up so quickly with double drones and you get quite a lot of breathing room for the first couple of minutes, so you should be able to get a constant stream of your preferred unit mix with some Queens mixed in to speed up the creep.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

I'm just starting out Starcraft 2, and in the process of installing Wings of Liberty. Yay! I have one question though.

Long ago four supercarriers loaded with political dissidents and convicts from Earth crash-landed on the distant planets of Tarsonis, Moria, and Umoja.

Are Terrans Australians.

 

[Tacitus_]

A lot of you are saying the game is super easy but I'm not really seeing it. The missions on char, especially the one where you spread the creep gave me a hell of a time on Hard. I barely survived that mission and couldn't get any of the achievements since those damn Gorgans (those huge planetary-like ships) were being spit out quite fast I can barely spread my creep in time. I did complete the bonus, even though it netted me no achievements at all.

Pro tip: creep spreads faster if you have multiple tumors going. I just farmed the achievements from that on Normal and I had the whole map creeped insanely fast.

 

[StMeph]

Played the campaign for a bit last night. Achievements were still messed up, so I didn't get them for the first three missions. Continuing later, the others worked.

I tried loading an earlier save, but that didn't work either. Do I just have to re-play those three missions from scratch?

 

[TheExodu5]

Much better thread title.

And yeah, the plot is superbly bad, but I don't mind it too much as I love what it sets up (early game spoiler)

Spoiler

by the 4th mission...I want to see Kerrigan go on a huge revenge spree

.

 

[fatty]

For those of you that had access to the HOTS Beta:

I should be getting my copy today, do I need to uninstall the beta since it is in a separate folder? I was planning on doing it but just wanted to make sure that I wouldn't be losing files that I would otherwise have to download all over again.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Indeed, I get that a long time has passed and they may have decided to take the story in a different direction for any number of reasons that could be totally valid. It's the fact that they ask you to simply accept that without actually writing a story that fits into where Brood War left off, and then picks up and goes off in its own way. There's practically no transition, and it's really jarring when you are retconning major events and completely changing the motivations and relationships of your main characters.

It's like you might as well throw out the original game and any previous opinions you had about any of these characters and factions.

 

[Jackben]

Much better thread title.

"I didn't give up on you, darlin'"

"Jim...."

"Kerrigan..."

"JIM!"

"KERRIGAN!"

"MENGSK!"

"Change of plans."

"You made us all monsters!"

"Thank you, Jim."

"Always a pleasure, darlin'."

*roll credits*

 

[Bisnic]

"Like riding a bike."

Stop!!

I'm really sorry, but now we will see it forever. >_<

Much better thread title.

Oh duckroll, you troll!

 

[AppleSmack]

Pro tip: creep spreads faster if you have multiple tumors going. I just farmed the achievements from that on Normal and I had the whole map creeped insanely fast.

The problem was for me when I tried to get the achievements is that it would kill off too many of my units so then I would really struggle breaking through the fortified Terran lines to kill the Gorgon off in time. Especially through those small choke-points. Worse, I usually took long enough that the Gorgon would make it halfway in the map and begin obliterating my reinforcements as they were coming in. I really botched that mission. The 6th Gorgon actually made it all the way to my base and began tearing apart my buildings before I took it down. Had to run all my drones to avoid unrecoverable damage.

 

[Jac_Solar]

I seem to remember that people complained a lot about WOL's writing, yet it sounds like this is even worse?

 

[Proc]

For those of you that had access to the HOTS Beta:

I should be getting my copy today, do I need to uninstall the beta since it is in a separate folder? I was planning on doing it but just wanted to make sure that I wouldn't be losing files that I would otherwise have to download all over again.

Its just using your starcraft directory since it patches the original game files. I forgot to nuke my beta folder. Thanks for reminding me.

 

[ultron87]

For those of you that had access to the HOTS Beta:

I should be getting my copy today, do I need to uninstall the beta since it is in a separate folder? I was planning on doing it but just wanted to make sure that I wouldn't be losing files that I would otherwise have to download all over again.

I don't think you can use the beta files. You'll need to update your normal WoL install. If you launch it it should start downloading everything. Then you can just put your CD key in on Battle.net and you'll be ready to go.

 

[Island]

Quick question as I play through the campaign.

My love/hate for competitive multiplayer has been rekindled with DOTA 2, and I would like to try my hand again at SC2 multi. (For reference I played 26 games when WOL came out, and I am horrible.)

Where would be a good place/website to start to get a warm up? Teach me the basics again? That kind of thing....

Thanks!

 

[Aaron]

Play the in game tutorials and challenges first I'd say.

 

[fanboi]

Game feels much easier then WoL (atleast on Brutal).

Not sure why, maybe my micro is so much better!?

 

[fatty]

Thanks Proc and Ultron87

Quick question as I play through the campaign.

My love/hate for competitive multiplayer has been rekindled with DOTA 2, and I would like to try my hand again at SC2 multi. (For reference I played 26 games when WOL came out, and I am horrible.)

Where would be a good place/website to start to get a warm up? Teach me the basics again? That kind of thing....

Thanks!

Check out my post earlier in this thread.

If you have any questions, ask away and/or post some replays and people in here will help. I'm an OK player, but I'd be more than happy to help you out anyway that I can.

 

[Proc]

Quick question as I play through the campaign.

My love/hate for competitive multiplayer has been rekindled with DOTA 2, and I would like to try my hand again at SC2 multi. (For reference I played 26 games when WOL came out, and I am horrible.)

Where would be a good place/website to start to get a warm up? Teach me the basics again? That kind of thing....

Thanks!

-Daily content about improving and metagame analysis: www.day9.tv

-news/updates: reddit.com/r/starcraft and teamliquid.net

-builds (metagame hasn't really been hashed out so builds are hard to come by): http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Main_Page

-bronze to masters WOL (focusing on strong mechanics and macro): https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3BEC8845BD92A381

edit

can't stress it enough... after a bit of research just play a lot of ladder. Don't get anxious and just commit to your plan and becoming comfortable with certain strategies posed against you. Its all experience and muscle memory. You will get better as time goes on if you are devoted to mastering your mechanics.

 

[AppleSmack]

Quick question as I play through the campaign.

My love/hate for competitive multiplayer has been rekindled with DOTA 2, and I would like to try my hand again at SC2 multi. (For reference I played 26 games when WOL came out, and I am horrible.)

Where would be a good place/website to start to get a warm up? Teach me the basics again? That kind of thing....

Thanks!

For general SC2 knowledge and builds:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft2

Build orders:
http://www.gosubuilds.com/

Also, make sure to follow your preferred race's reddit and r/starcraft. Sometimes you get useful stuff there.

www.reddit.com/r/starcraft
www.reddit.com/r/allthingsprotoss
www.reddit.com/r/AllThingsTerran
www.reddit.com/r/AllThingsZerg

 

[TheExodu5]

Wow...major typo on my last post. I said the plot was superbly done...meant to say it's superbly bad. Fixing that shit.

 

[TreasureHunterG]

Like expected, people are overreacting with the romance between Raynor and Kerrigan.

But saying this is the focus of entire SC2 plot is not looking the whole picture or the excuse the "it's cool to hate everything" crowd needed to bash the plot. The hybrid/xel'naga threat has a key role in the story so far and all it's major happenings has something related to them. Anyone who played the Brood War secret mission Dark Origin knew this was eventually going to happen.

Spoiler

1. The Dark Origin secret mission revealed Samir Duran was working for Amon in the hybrid project.

2. Zeratul, after the end of Dark Origin, discovered Amon twisted the Overmind, hence it's objective was assimilate the Protoss in the SC1 campaign.

3. Overmind created Kerrigan to free itself and the Zerg from Amon's dark influence.

4. Tassadar's sacrifice by the end of the Protoss campaign allowed Kerrigan to start her quest to gain control over the Zerg Swarm. The new Overmind and the UED were in her way, so she needed to do whatever she could to take them out in order to get ready for Amon's threat.

5. Although Kerrigan was created to free the Zerg, Amon's dark influence was transmitted for Kerrigan through the Overmind. She had an internal conflict of her true intentions and Amon's dark influence as she could easily exterminate both the Terrans and the Protoss by the end of Brood War, but she didn't.

6. Kerrigan somehow knew of what Duran was up to. It's clear in Heart of the Swarm that Dr. Emil Narud is actually Samir Duran until proven otherwise. This explain on why Kerrigan was after Dr. Narud in WoL.

7. Samir Duran/Dr. Narud convinced Mengsk to house his hybrid experiments and he knew the truth behind Kerrigan's creation, so he needed to clean her out. The WoL secret mission proved the Dominion was involved with the hybrids and Valerian Mengsk was the real owner of Narud's Moebius. The whole xel'naga artifact campaign was a plan from Dr. Narud and Mengsk (under Dr. Narud's influence) to assassinate Kerrigan and they hired Tychus for the job and decided to use Jim Raynor as a decoy They would probably succeed if wasn't for Valerian Mengsk betrayal. Valerian probably discovered what was the real objective of the xel'naga artifact and that his father was under Dr. Narud's control and Raynor was his only hope to fight this threat.

8. Alexei Stukov presence in HotS makes things even clear. He somehow finds out Samir Duran was infested (and he says that in his dying words in Brood War), hence Admiral DuGalle was conviced by Duran to elminate him and hide the truth. He was revived as an Infested Terran in the N64 secret Resurrection IV campaign and later purified. The Deception mission revealed he was involved in somekind of research involving technologies from both Zerg and Protoss, probably indicating he knew who Samir Duran really was or, Samir Duran/Dr. Narud had something of involvement in the Deception's ship researches and Stukov was doing an investigation of his own (hence his brief appearance on that mission). Stukov probably find out something indicating Samir Duran and Dr. Narud are the same person on that ship. He's the one who find out Dr. Narud's location, informed Kerrigan of his whereabouts and even knew he wasn't human. His role was crucial in the entire SC storyline. I liked these because it makes both Resurrection IV and Deception key moments in the entire SC lot.

9. After Tychus was killed and the plan to assassinate Kerrigan was foiled by both Raynor and Valerian. Zeratul knew about the danger she was under her current human form, so he decided to inform Kerrigan about Zerus and the primal Zerg. Kerrigan also became aware of Amon, so she needed to get back her Queen of Blades powers again, but this time, free from Amon's dark influence.

What is not clear to me is why Kerrigan wanted to kill Mengsk so badly? Just because he betrayed her or because she knew he was involved with Samir Duran/Dr. Narud? I hope in Legacy of Void this makes clear.

 

[Catchafire2000]

Been enjoying replaying the WoL campaign before jumping into HotS. Nice refresher course and getting rid of the rust.

One of these nights I'll get my guts and try multiplayer again When I first bought WoL, I played one match, got crushed by stealth protoss (by what I now know as a dark templar rush I guess), and never played again

If you don't scout, you always lose to garbage strats like that. No reason to have given up, it is easily beatable strate. Just defense it.

 

[Zzoram]

First 3 missions are still pretty neat despite their tutorial-like feel. Once you get the Leviathan though, that's when the real game begins and it gets a lot better.

 

[ultron87]

Like expected, people are overreacting with the romance between Raynor and Kerrigan.

But saying this is the focus of entire SC2 plot is not looking the whole picture or the excuse the "it's cool to hate everything" crowd needed to bash the plot. The hybrid/xel'naga threat has a key role in the story so far and all it's major happenings has something related to them. Anyone who played the Brood War secret mission Dark Origin knew this was eventually going to happen.

I've never said that it was the focus.

Spoiler

But making Kerrigan's entire motivation at the start of the game "gotta get back to Jim", "gotta save Jim", "gotta kill Mengsk... because he killed Jim and not the already existing various reasons I'd dislike him" is really bad and makes me hate it.

I'm only on mission 6 or something, so I'm sure there will be a more overarching plot at some point here.

 

[Bizazedo]

Like expected, people are overreacting with the romance between Raynor and Kerrigan.

But saying this is the focus of entire SC2 plot is not looking the whole picture or the excuse the "it's cool to hate everything" crowd needed to bash the plot. The hybrid/xel'naga threat has a key role in the story so far and all it's major happenings has something related to them. Anyone who played the Brood War secret mission Dark Origin knew this was eventually going to happen.

Yep.

Agreed with your spoilers, but wanted to add on....

You can't treat the Queen of Blades and Kerrigan as the same person. In Brood War, she didn't care about killing Mengsk because it didn't matter what he had done to Kerrigan. The betrayal created the Queen of Blades.

When she's forcibly reverted, she's Kerrigan again, so she'd be understandably pissed at Mengsk now and want to bring him down.

Additionally, while Raynor definitely shifted the most and IS a legit complaint in terms of Brood War Raynor to WoL Raynor, I believe that was done for players who had never played SC 1 or Brood War because.....

Imho there's no way that romance won't eventually find its way back to that path, mainly because Raynor got Kerrigan back in part one of a trilogy. That's not how you build a love story where the two lovebirds remain together. It's how you build a tragedy between the two.

 

[Tiamant]

Like expected, people are overreacting with the romance between Raynor and Kerrigan.

But saying this is the focus of entire SC2 plot is not looking the whole picture or the excuse the "it's cool to hate everything" crowd needed to bash the plot. The hybrid/xel'naga threat has a key role in the story so far and all it's major happenings has something related to them. Anyone who played the Brood War secret mission Dark Origin knew this was eventually going to happen.

Spoiler

1. The Dark Origin secret mission revealed Samir Duran was working for Amon in the hybrid project.

2. Zeratul, after the end of Dark Origin, discovered Amon twisted the Overmind, hence it's objective was assimilate the Protoss in the SC1 campaign.

3. Overmind created Kerrigan to free itself and the Zerg from Amon's dark influence.

4. Tassadar's sacrifice by the end of the Protoss campaign allowed Kerrigan to start her quest to gain control over the Zerg Swarm. The new Overmind and the UED were in her way, so she needed to do whatever she could to take them out in order to get ready for Amon's threat.

5. Although Kerrigan was created to free the Zerg, Amon's dark influence was transmitted for Kerrigan through the Overmind. She had an internal conflict of her true intentions and Amon's dark influence as she could easily exterminate both the Terrans and the Protoss by the end of Brood War, but she didn't.

6. Kerrigan somehow knew of what Duran was up to. It's clear in Heart of the Swarm that Dr. Emil Narud is actually Samir Duran until proven otherwise. This explain on why Kerrigan was after Dr. Narud in WoL.

7. Samir Duran/Dr. Narud convinced Mengsk to house his hybrid experiments and he knew the truth behind Kerrigan's creation, so he needed to clean her out. The WoL secret mission proved the Dominion was involved with the hybrids and Valerian Mengsk was the real owner of Narud's Moebius. The whole xel'naga artifact campaign was a plan from Dr. Narud and Mengsk (under Dr. Narud's influence) to assassinate Kerrigan and they hired Tychus for the job and decided to use Jim Raynor as a decoy They would probably succeed if wasn't for Valerian Mengsk betrayal. Valerian probably discovered what was the real objective of the xel'naga artifact and that his father was under Dr. Narud's control and Raynor was his only hope to fight this threat.

8. Alexei Stukov presence in HotS makes things even clear. He somehow finds out Samir Duran was infested (and he says that in his dying words in Brood War), hence Admiral DuGalle was conviced by Duran to elminate him and hide the truth. He was revived as an Infested Terran in the N64 secret Resurrection IV campaign and later purified. The Deception mission revealed he was involved in somekind of research involving technologies from both Zerg and Protoss, probably indicating he knew who Samir Duran really was or, Samir Duran/Dr. Narud had something of involvement in the Deception's ship researches and Stukov was doing an investigation of his own (hence his brief appearance on that mission). Stukov probably find out something indicating Samir Duran and Dr. Narud are the same person on that ship. He's the one who find out Dr. Narud's location, informed Kerrigan of his whereabouts and even knew he wasn't human. His role was crucial in the entire SC storyline. I liked these because it makes both Resurrection IV and Deception key moments in the entire SC lot.

9. After Tychus was killed and the plan to assassinate Kerrigan was foiled by both Raynor and Valerian. Zeratul knew about the danger she was under her current human form, so he decided to inform Kerrigan about Zerus and the primal Zerg. Kerrigan also became aware of Amon, so she needed to get back her Queen of Blades powers again, but this time, free from Amon's dark influence.

What is not clear to me is why Kerrigan wanted to kill Mengsk so badly? Just because he betrayed her or because she knew he was involved with Samir Duran/Dr. Narud? I hope in Legacy of Void this makes clear.

You know, when you put it that way is not that bad, but what ruins it is:

-Blizzard's terrible storytelling, pacing and cheese.
-The inevitable Warcraft 3 ending that Hots has shaped the trilogy into (not that we didn't know that in WoL)
-The non-stop retconning. You see, almost everything of this:

Is now meaningless. Also how the hell

Spoiler

are the primal zerg supposed to have hydras, roaches and other units if they never moved from Zerus?

 

[Bisnic]

I've never said that it was the focus.

Spoiler

But making Kerrigan's entire motivation at the start of the game "gotta get back to Jim", "gotta save Jim", "gotta kill Mengsk... because he killed Jim and not the already existing various reasons I'd dislike him" is really bad and makes me hate it.

I'm only on mission 6 or something, so I'm sure there will be a more overarching plot at some point here.

She already wanted to kill him very badly before THAT happened in the game. It was just another reason to add to the list.

Even if i seriously doubt

Spoiler

he's dead. He's probably gonna come out of a prison or something near the end and say "Sarah..." with a smile, while Kerrigan gets tears in her eyes and say "Jim, you're alive!"

or some predictable shit like that.

 

[Ushae]

Ok so I've played the first 3 missions. Here are my impressions.

- Remarkable production values, and cutscenes. No doubt.
- Raynor/Kerrigan 'thing' kinda threw me off. Almost cringeworthy. But then again this is Blizzards story. So I'm open to their narrative style.
- Mission structure is fantastic, it holds your hand a little too much.
- The storyline in general is great as usual, but the writing is clearly its greatest flaw.

Still love.SC despite the flaws tho.

 

[Jackben]

Like expected, people are overreacting with the romance between Raynor and Kerrigan.

But saying this is the focus of entire SC2 plot is not looking the whole picture or the excuse the "it's cool to hate everything" crowd needed to bash the plot.

I respect your point of view, but in the future you might want to remove the bolded as it is extremely rude and dismissive of equally relevant points of view.

As to your spoiler text, it is an interesting thread they have retained from the original Starcraft games but it also reeks of a cliched 'dark force behind the scenes' trope they've already beaten to death via the Warcraft franchise ala 'Burning Legion'. Still, I really enjoyed the secret missions that tie these points together. But you know what I enjoyed more? The political intrigue & interpersonal conflict highlighted in Brood War that resulted in unlikely alliances and betrayals in the original game versus the 'WE HAVE TO BAND TOGETHER TO FIGHT THE TRUE BAD GUYS' plot that everyone can now see from miles away.

 

[antitrop]

The original OT title was substantially better.

 

[SillyEskimo]

Are Macros not allowed in this game? I have a G19+G13 setup but have read conflicting reports. Any heads up or links to official notifications would be appreciated!

 

[antitrop]

Are Macros not allowed in this game? I have a G19+G13 setup but have read conflicting reports. Any heads up or links to official notifications would be appreciated!

They're perfectly fine as long as you're not in a competitive tournament.

 

[StMeph]

Like expected, people are overreacting with the romance between Raynor and Kerrigan.

But saying this is the focus of entire SC2 plot is not looking the whole picture or the excuse the "it's cool to hate everything" crowd needed to bash the plot. The hybrid/xel'naga threat has a key role in the story so far and all it's major happenings has something related to them. Anyone who played the Brood War secret mission Dark Origin knew this was eventually going to happen.

I think the central issue that people really have a problem with, one that Blizzard seems to be falling into more and more, is that there's no continuity. There is instead a huge schizophrenic leap in style and content.

It's not that StarCraft was just contained to a conflict between the three races (Duran was already written in as an agent of some other power in Brood War), but the way in which it was handled.

The original StarCraft had 30 missions, and told a much bigger story, spanning three races. Each one had its entire arc told in just 10 missions. Wings of Liberty had 29 missions (26 in one campaign), and basically dicked around. Steal artifacts? For how many missions? The Void was relevant, but also did not need to span so many missions. And then the Raynor-Kerrigan plot that has basically taken over StarCraft happened.

This is without getting into Brood War, another dense set of plot developments FOR THREE RACES, and the comparison to Heart of the Swarm.

THAT is the problem with SC2 now.

 

[AppleSmack]

Are Macros not allowed in this game? I have a G19+G13 setup but have read conflicting reports. Any heads up or links to official notifications would be appreciated!

I hope not. Macro = cheating.

 

[Jackben]

I hope not. Macro = cheating.

I hope this is sarcasm.

 

[antitrop]

I hope this is sarcasm.

It is a form of cheating, but it's undetectable and you'll never get banned for it.
I use macros all the time and I'm sure plenty of other players do, too.

It would be silly not to use them if your keyboard has the proper drivers. Unless you're at a competitive tournament/"LAN" event.

 

[UnluckyKate]

The story feels incredibly stupid. I would love to see this as a flashback of the Queen of Blade exaction before/during the events of WoL. But this feels just so bad. It's like all your work in WoL is turned down. Yay...

 

[Jackben]

I guess I have different definition parameters for 'cheating'. We're not talking about code that alters the game. We're not talking about a glider mechanic that plays the game for you. You still have to make all the decisions and actions in the game, simple macros just streamline the process. How is a simple macro different from binding different areas of the map to F1 keys for quick viewing?

On second thought, maybe I am confused as to what macro really means.

 

[TreasureHunterG]

You know, when you put it that way is not that bad, but what ruins it is:

-Blizzard's terrible storytelling, pacing and cheese.
-The inevitable Warcraft 3 ending that Hots has shaped the trilogy into (not that we didn't know that in WoL)
-The non-stop retconning. You see, almost everything of this:



Is now meaningless. Also how the hell

Spoiler

are the primal zerg supposed to have hydras, roaches and other units if they never moved from Zerus?

What I'm reading so far is coming mostly from people who aren't familiarized with the Starcraft universe or are missing key information of the plot when they jump into wrong conclusions about the direction when in fact they make sense and there's explanation for it all along. Some didn't even finished the game and are already judging it.

About your question:

Spoiler

As far I remember, they never revealed how long the xel'naga went with their Zerg project at Zerus before Amon corrupted the Overmind and turned against it's creators. There's no solid evidence to say if all of the primal Zerg units we see on HotS weren't native Zerus creatures or the xel'naga brought them for other worlds for their experiments.

I think the central issue that people really have a problem with, one that Blizzard seems to be falling into more and more, is that there's no continuity. There is instead a huge schizophrenic leap in style and content.

It's not that StarCraft was just contained to a conflict between the three races (Duran was already written in as an agent of some other power in Brood War), but the way in which it was handled.

The original StarCraft had 30 missions, and told a much bigger story, spanning three races. Each one had its entire arc told in just 10 missions. Wings of Liberty had 29 missions (26 in one campaign), and basically dicked around. Steal artifacts? For how many missions? The Void was relevant, but also did not need to span so many missions. And then the Raynor-Kerrigan plot that has basically taken over StarCraft happened.

This is without getting into Brood War, another dense set of plot developments FOR THREE RACES, and the comparison to Heart of the Swarm.

THAT is the problem with SC2 now.

I agree Wings of Liberty had pacing issues, specially the Dr. Ariel Hanson and the Tosh missions who were pure filler garbage. But Tychus and Matt Horner missions were very important for the plot. Heart of the Swarm don't have such issues because, pretty much all of the arcs are very important for the overall plot and not such filler bullshit like Wings of Liberty had a lot. I can see people complaining about Raynor and Kerrigan romantic relationship and call that bad writing (it didn't bother me that much, although is far from being good either), but I can't honestly see this as a plot hole or something that derail the plot.

 

[Jackben]

It is strange you say that TreasureHunter, as what I have been reading is mostly from long time fans who are very familiar with the content and lore and whose disappointment in the plot has been appropriately affected by that fact. It would be much easier to accept the stylistic changes if you are coming in fresh to Starcraft II versus those who have had detailed knowledge of the original plot, character motivations and origins of the series from the beginning.

 

[duckroll]

I think TreasureHunterG would make a better point if he didn't start every post trying to insult people by pigeonholing all negative criticisms on the writing into a strawman he can attack. It just makes me go "lol" instead of bothering to reply seriously.

 

[Tacitus_]

TreasureHunterGs point about Stukov in BW is wrong, given how much demolished DuGalle was after he found out the truth. I have a feeling that he's wrong about the Dark Origin poinst as well but I haven't played that mission in ages and need to watch a recap video first.

Yep.

Agreed with your spoilers, but wanted to add on....

You can't treat the Queen of Blades and Kerrigan as the same person. In Brood War, she didn't care about killing Mengsk because it didn't matter what he had done to Kerrigan. The betrayal created the Queen of Blades.

When she's forcibly reverted, she's Kerrigan again, so she'd be understandably pissed at Mengsk now and want to bring him down.

Additionally, while Raynor definitely shifted the most and IS a legit complaint in terms of Brood War Raynor to WoL Raynor, I believe that was done for players who had never played SC 1 or Brood War because.....

Imho there's no way that romance won't eventually find its way back to that path, mainly because Raynor got Kerrigan back in part one of a trilogy. That's not how you build a love story where the two lovebirds remain together. It's how you build a tragedy between the two.

No, she hated Mengsk in Brood War too. She just left him alive after completely crushing him to drive the point home of what he actually did.

Arcturus Mengsk: Kerrigan, you murdering bitch! We had a deal.
Kerrigan: Oh, come on, Arcturus. Did you really think that I would allow you to come into power again? You practickly fed me to Zerg on Tarsonis, you're directly responsible for the hell I've been through. Did you honestly think that I would let you get away with that?
Arcturus Mengsk: But you said revenge was secondary to defeating the UED!
Kerrigan: I lied. I Liberated this planet because it was the UED's primary stageing point, not because I was under any obligation to you. I used you to destroy the Psi Disrupter and now that I've got my broods back, you're no longer necessary for my plans. I think I'll leave you here, Arcturus, among the ashes of your precious Dominion. I want you to live to se me rise to power and I want you to allways remember, in your most private moments, that it was you who let me lose in the first place

What I'm reading so far is coming mostly from people who aren't familiarized with the Starcraft universe or are missing key information of the plot when they jump into wrong conclusions about the direction when in fact they make sense and there's explanation for it all along. Some didn't even finished the game and are already judging it.

About your question:

Spoiler

As far I remember, they never revealed how long the xel'naga went with their Zerg project at Zerus before Amon corrupted the Overmind and turned against it's creators. There's no solid evidence to say if all of the primal Zerg units we see on HotS weren't native Zerus creatures or the xel'naga brought them for other worlds for their experiments.

I agree Wings of Liberty had pacing issues, specially the Dr. Ariel Hanson and the Tosh missions who were pure filler garbage. But Tychus and Matt Horner missions were very important for the plot. Heart of the Swarm don't have such issues because, pretty much all of the arcs are very important for the overall plot and not such filler bullshit like Wings of Liberty had a lot. I can see people complaining about Raynor and Kerrigan romantic relationship and call that bad writing (it didn't bother me that much, although is far from being good either), but I can't honestly see this as a plot hole or something that derail the plot.

The zerg were not spacefaring until the Overmind called down some space capable creatures, which it then assimilated and crushed the Xel'Naga.

 

[TreasureHunterG]

It is strange you say that TreasureHunter, as what I have been reading is mostly from long time fans who are very familiar with the content and lore and whose disappointment in the plot has been appropriately affected by that fact. It would be much easier to accept the stylistic changes if you are coming in fresh to Starcraft II versus those who have had detailed knowledge of the original plot, character motivations and origins of the series from the beginning.

I think TreasureHunterG would make a better point if he didn't start every post trying to insult people by pigeonholing all negative criticisms on the writing into a strawman he can attack. It just makes me go "lol" instead of bothering to reply seriously.

I think neither both of you did read my spoiler detailing the plot counter argument to these claims.

Why would I read spoilers when I'm still playing the game? It seems like you don't even care what you're arguing against. People say the dialogue is really bad and the character writing is embarrassing, and you go "LOL LOOKS LIKE THE HATE BRIGADE IS HERE". That's something stupid fanboys say when they're butthurt about people saying something negative about a game they like, it's not a real argument for anything. When you start a post like that, it makes people not want to care about anything you have to say following that.

As expected, you didn't.

I'm complaining because there are people saying the SC2 plot is all about Raynor and Kerrigan relationship which is not true.

 

[duckroll]

I think neither both of you did read my spoiler counter argument to these claims detailing the plot.

Why would I read spoilers when I'm still playing the game? It seems like you don't even care what you're arguing against. People say the dialogue is really bad and the character writing is embarrassing, and you go "LOL LOOKS LIKE THE HATE BRIGADE IS HERE". That's something stupid fanboys say when they're butthurt about people saying something negative about a game they like, it's not a real argument for anything. When you start a post like that, it makes people not want to care about anything you have to say following that.

 

[Bizazedo]

No, she hated Mengsk in Brood War too. She just left him alive after completely crushing him to drive the point home of what he actually did.

You proved my point, though. The Queen of Blades had no overwhelming personal desire to kill Mengsk. She didn't need to.

Kerrigan does.

 

[StMeph]

I agree Wings of Liberty had pacing issues, specially the Dr. Ariel Hanson and the Tosh missions who were pure filler garbage. But Tychus and Matt Horner missions were very important for the plot.

I'm not saying WoL was irrelevant to the plot. But calling them pacing issues is being extremely kind.

If SC2 was paced like SC1, ALL of the content of WoL, HotS, and LoV would have been told in 30 missions, 10 each. It would have made for a much tighter, grander epic. If WoL had been condensed, it would have been a much better narrative, but the game would seem to have less content, and be less of a value proposition. So the new direction is to stretch things out. What used to be 10 missions is now 20 or 30. And now plot developments are a slow trickle.

Stretching this stuff out is why we have filler and bad (worse) writing. Blizzard is forced to come up with more excuses/scenarios for more missions when less would really be more.

Heart of the Swarm don't have such issues because, pretty much all of the arcs are very important for the overall plot and not such filler bullshit like Wings of Liberty had a lot.

HotS isn't much better. Don't tell me that three missions are necessary on a frigid moon just to add some crew to my Swarm.

I can see people complaining about Raynor and Kerrigan romantic relationship and call that bad writing (it didn't bother me that much, although is far from being good either), but I can't honestly see this as a plot hole or something that derail the plot.

It really did kind of take over the narrative, even if it isn't the metaplot.

 

[ultron87]

You proved my point, though. The Queen of Blades had no overwhelming personal desire to kill Mengsk. She didn't need to.

Kerrigan does.

And she already did before any of the stuff that happens at the start of this game, so manufacturing a relationship between her and Jim and then using that as her primary spoken means of motivation at the start was wholly unnecessary. And really kind of offensive to her character since the majority of her lines in the first three missions are related to him and not about her at all.