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//: StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm |OT| Like Riding a Bike

T

Tiamant

Member
TreasureHunterG said:
About your question:

As far I remember, they never revealed how long the xel'naga went with their Zerg project at Zerus before Amon corrupted the Overmind and turned against it's creators. There's no solid evidence to say if all of the primal Zerg units we see on HotS weren't native Zerus creatures or the xel'naga brought them for other worlds for their experiments.
Click to expand...

Not possible since
most of the zerg strains were assimilated from species of another planets like the slothein (hidraliscs), brontholith (ultralisks) or gashyrr wasps (drones). The only known species of zerg that actually came to Zerus were the overlords which ironically the primal zerg did not used :p

So yeah, (minor?) plot hole nº4657 for you, Blizzard!
 
S

ShaneB

Member
Catchafire2000 said:
If you don't scout, you always lose to garbage strats like that. No reason to have given up, it is easily beatable strate. Just defense it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, my 2 issues with scouting are that I'm exactly sure what to look for at this point with minimal knowledge of the game, plus I'm not that good at multitasking :p
 
A

AppleSmack

Banned
Jackben said:
I guess I have different definition parameters for 'cheating'. We're not talking about code that alters the game. We're not talking about a glider mechanic that plays the game for you. You still have to make all the decisions and actions in the game, simple macros just streamline the process. How is a simple macro different from binding different areas of the map to F1 keys for quick viewing?

On second thought, maybe I am confused as to what macro really means.
Click to expand...

Multiple action macros are definately cheating. It isn't the same thing as setting a hotkey at all. A hotkey lets you do 1 action. Macros can allow you to do many at once.

As long as your macro does one thing it is okay since it is like a hotkey. Here is a comment from a blue poster on the topic:

http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1302702180#15

From what I understand, Overpowered, you simply want to move one in-game function (= selecting a specific unit in a group) from its default key (= backspace) to another of your choosing, which you have available in your keyboard? Correct me if I misunderstood you, of course.

Were you to program multiple functions onto that same key, an execute them all with just one keypress, that wouldn't be ok. I don't see a problem with what you propose however; you're basically just changing a keybinding.
Click to expand...
 
B

Bizazedo

Member
ultron87 said:
And she already did before any of the stuff that happens at the start of this game, so manufacturing a relationship between her and Jim and then using that as her primary spoken means of motivation at the start was wholly unnecessary. And really kind of offensive to her character since the majority of her lines in the first three missions are related to him and not about her at all.
Click to expand...

The relationship between her and Jim (crappy retcon that it is) was the only thing that prevented Kerrigan from going after Mengsk, though. It's not a spoiler as it's the very first thing you see as you start the campaign, Kerrigan wants to kill Mengsk. The only thing holding her back was Retcon Raynor.

There's two different arguments. The arc and the execution.

The only thing I'm saying is if you break it down, Kerrigan wanting to kill Mengsk isn't something that doesn't make sense. As an arc, it does.

The execution, mainly due to Raynor, was what is bad. I feel they probably did that for people who didn't play Brood War / new players (not that I agree with it).
 
T

Technosteve

Banned
I just finished the Char mission, I have to say the bug that's like a nazi eugenicists he's my favorite asshole in this game.

Is it me or did they write Raynor in to a Cuckold shell of a man, like Kerrigan is the alpha male in this relationship.

Or how every mission ends with, but the queen of blades told me to do this i'm not really against you is really lazy writing.

still enjoying the gameplay tho
 
The Lamonster

The Lamonster

Member
After several hours' playtime last night, here are my impressions so far:

-as always, AMAZING art direction and production values
-choosing upgrades is great fun, makes me want a "hero" based game where we can spec more than just Kerrigan...kind of like WCIII except upgrades persist through missions as in HOTS
-graphics and UI are incredible
-while the story is hardly interesting and the writing is overly dramatic and adolescent, Tricia Helfer's voice acting is superb as usual
 
T

TreasureHunterG

Banned
StMeph said:
HotS isn't much better. Don't tell me that three missions are necessary on a frigid moon just to add some crew to my Swarm.
Click to expand...

About the
Stukov
missions? They're key missions to the plot
Specially if it's confirmed that in fact Dr. Narud is Samir Duran. If he really is, it makes sense to the entire SC saga plot

Tiamant said:
Not possible since
most of the zerg strains were assimilated from species of another planets like the slothein (hidraliscs), brontholith (ultralisks) or gashyrr wasps (drones). The only known species of zerg that actually came to Zerus were the overlords which ironically the primal zerg did not used :p

So yeah, (minor?) plot hole nº4657 for you, Blizzard!
Click to expand...

I don't remember very well what was written in the SC1 manual but
it was confirmed that the xel'naga didn't brought any species from other planets to Zeros?

Tacitus_ said:
TreasureHunterGs point about Stukov in BW is wrong, given how much demolished DuGalle was after he found out the truth. I have a feeling that he's wrong about the Dark Origin poinst as well but I haven't played that mission in ages and need to watch a recap video first.
Click to expand...

DuGalle was demolished because he was used by Duran to kill Stukov because he (Stukov) found out the Psi Disrupter was a key for UED objective and that Duran was infested. Not because he killed Stukov aware of Duran's true colors to hide the truth. He didn't even suspect Duran was infested until the end of the Terran campaign when Duran revealed to be working for Kerrigan.
 
U

ultron87

Member
Bizazedo said:
The relationship between her and Jim (crappy retcon that it is) was the only thing that prevented Kerrigan from going after Mengsk, though. It's not a spoiler as it's the very first thing you see as you start the campaign, Kerrigan wants to kill Mengsk. The only thing holding her back was Retcon Raynor.

There's two different arguments. The arc and the execution.

The only thing I'm saying is if you break it down, Kerrigan wanting to kill Mengsk isn't something that doesn't make sense. As an arc, it does.

The execution, mainly due to Raynor, was what is bad.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'll definitely agree with that. The endpoint, her rebuilding the Swarm away from the Terrans and going after Mengsk after getting powered down is perfectly acceptable and makes sense. The way they got there, and the things Kerrigan says during that build up are just awful.
 
S

strafer

member
So I haven't played Starcraft 2 and I was wondering if there is some previously in Starcraft or something, or do I have to play the game?
 
A

AppleSmack

Banned
TreasureHunterG said:
Yes. Makes much more sense for you if played SC1 and Brood War before playing SC2.
Click to expand...

Disagree. You don't need any experience in SC1 to enjoy SC2. They even have a refresher for the story in the game. If you want to experience SC1 though, the game has been recreated in SC2 graphics. The entire campaign apparently and its supposed to be well done too.
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Did we really change the title of this thread? Hope this isn't permanent :/
 
T

TreasureHunterG

Banned
AppleSmack said:
Disagree. You don't need any experience in SC1 to enjoy SC2. They even have a refresher for the story in the game. If you want to experience SC1 though, the game has been recreated in SC2 graphics. The entire campaign apparently and its supposed to be well done too.
Click to expand...

But the refresher lack some info you'll only be aware of it if you played it, specially Brood War.
 
D

Deadstar

Member
duckroll said:
I think it's because if you play on Normal, the game feels very, very automatic. Higher difficulty levels is definitely the way to go for anyone who wants an actual game experience here.
Click to expand...

I've taken the advice of the people and am playing on hard mode. I'm having a ton of fun and loving the campaign so far. Evolving units is awesome and I like how you can change certain upgrades before you go into a mission. I've had some close calls on hard but for the most part it's manageable.
 
A

AppleSmack

Banned
TreasureHunterG said:
But the refresher lack some info you'll only be aware of it if you played it, specially Brood War.
Click to expand...

It doesn't lack anything that will make you lost during SC2 storyline. I did not complete Brood War's campaign before playing SC2 and had no trouble following the plot with the refresher alone.
 
T

TreasureHunterG

Banned
AppleSmack said:
It doesn't lack anything that will make you lost during SC2 storyline. I did not complete Brood War's campaign before playing SC2 and had no trouble following the plot with the refresher alone.
Click to expand...

Then I highly recommend you to play the Dark Origin secret mission. It's crucial for the series, specially if you want to know details about the hybrids, Zeratul's role in WoL and HotS and
Amon's plot
.
 
J

Jeff-DSA

Member
Played some games last night. I won on the strength of my WoL builds and strats, but I know that's not going to hold up at all in the long run.

I need some good openings and builds laid out for me. I should have played the beta, but in the past year I've moved, had another kid, been changing jobs, and had all sorts of other things going on and I just haven't had time for SC2.

Any direction for some good Terran BOs and stats would be nice.
 
M

Mr Cola

Brothas With Attitude / The Wrong Brotha to Fuck Wit / Die Brotha Die / Brothas in Paris
Finished the campaign an hour ago, now onto achievement hunting. Must say I admire the variation in missions in the campaign but I prefer WOL, most probably because I liked the units more. The evolutions and mutations were nice, achievement hunting is going to be great and onto Brutal. Must say the WOL end mission was far more difficult on Brutal, though this one did take me upwards of an hour to do. The one mission I am seriously not looking forward to doing on Brutal is the protect the chrysalis mission
 
D

dan2026

Member
Every time I see Starcraft, I just can't shake the impression that it is just Warhammer 40k wearing a silly hat and a false beard.

I know all about their shared history, but good God is it blatant, especially when you look at some of the backstory.
 
T

TreasureHunterG

Banned
Tacitus_ said:
Eh, there's nothing there that SC2 doesn't repeat.
Click to expand...

It explains Zeratul's motive for his personal quest in Wings of Liberty. Explains there's hybrids seeded on many worlds around the Starcraft universe. Explains there's someone supervising it's creation (which is Duran) and after HotS,
is pretty much clear Dr. Narud is Samir Duran (he's not human, is a shapeshifter and was supervising the hybrids, same role from Samir Duran in Brood War, and Blizzard even confirmed both Narud and Samir Duran are connected, so all the SC2 plot gains much more consistency)
and more importantly, there is very powerful being is behind it
(which is clear now that is Amon)
.
 
J

J2d

Member
Finished it up today, was pretty good imo. I hardly built anything except lings, banes and ultralisks for the whole campaign (this was on normal) cause I just liked overwhelming the enemy. Kerrigan could pretty much take out all the flying units by herself. Hopefully that wont work on the harder difficulties.

MP is great, I honestly wish that jumping zerglings could be in it =O
 
A

antitrop

Member
sixghost said:
Is there some way to convert SC2 APM to SC1 apm? I've been getting 200-250 in games where I don't feel I was particularly fast.
Click to expand...

I believe that due to the changes to the game clock in HotS (i.e., real-time instead of Blizzard time), APM is now calculated differently, so you should have a much higher APM in HotS than Wings of Liberty. Because 1 in-game minute is now longer (60 seconds now, as opposed to whatever it was before, much shorter, probably more like low 40s), you have more time to input actions in 1 minute, therefore significantly increasing your APM.

I believe StarCraft 1 calculated APM to 60 seconds, like HotS now does. But StarCraft 1 and 2 have very different definitions of what the games consider an "Action".
 
F

Felix Lighter

Member
antitrop said:
I believe that due to the changes to the game clock in HotS (i.e., real-time instead of Blizzard time), APM is now calculated differently, so you should have a much higher APM in HotS than Wings of Liberty. Because 1 in-game minute is now longer (60 seconds now, as opposed to whatever it was before, much shorter, probably more like low 40s), you have more time to input actions in 1 minute, therefore significantly increasing your APM.

I believe StarCraft 1 calculated APM to 60 seconds, like HotS now does. But StarCraft 1 and 2 have very different definitions of what the games consider an "Action".
Click to expand...

Alright, that would explain the higher APM I'm seeing now compared to the replays I've watched of myself in WoL.
 
Z

zargle

Member
TreasureHunterG said:
It explains Zeratul's motive for his personal quest in Wings of Liberty. Explains there's hybrids seeded on many worlds around the Starcraft universe. Explains there's someone supervising it's creation (which is Duran) and after HotS,
is pretty much clear Dr. Narud is Samir Duran (he's not human, is a shapeshifter and was supervising the hybrids, same role from Samir Duran in Brood War, and Blizzard even confirmed both Narud and Samir Duran are connected, so all the SC2 plot gains much more consistency)
and more importantly, there is very powerful being is behind it
(which is clear now that is Amon)
.
Click to expand...

You mean its not obvious since
Narud is Duran spelled backwards?
 
T

Tacitus_

Member
TreasureHunterG said:
Like expected, people are overreacting with the romance between Raynor and Kerrigan.

But saying this is the focus of entire SC2 plot is not looking the whole picture or the excuse the "it's cool to hate everything" crowd needed to bash the plot. The hybrid/xel'naga threat has a key role in the story so far and all it's major happenings has something related to them. Anyone who played the Brood War secret mission Dark Origin knew this was eventually going to happen.

1. The Dark Origin secret mission revealed Samir Duran was working for Amon in the hybrid project.

2. Zeratul, after the end of Dark Origin, discovered Amon twisted the Overmind, hence it's objective was assimilate the Protoss in the SC1 campaign.

3. Overmind created Kerrigan to free itself and the Zerg from Amon's dark influence.

4. Tassadar's sacrifice by the end of the Protoss campaign allowed Kerrigan to start her quest to gain control over the Zerg Swarm. The new Overmind and the UED were in her way, so she needed to do whatever she could to take them out in order to get ready for Amon's threat.

5. Although Kerrigan was created to free the Zerg, Amon's dark influence was transmitted for Kerrigan through the Overmind. She had an internal conflict of her true intentions and Amon's dark influence as she could easily exterminate both the Terrans and the Protoss by the end of Brood War, but she didn't.

6. Kerrigan somehow knew of what Duran was up to. It's clear in Heart of the Swarm that Dr. Emil Narud is actually Samir Duran until proven otherwise. This explain on why Kerrigan was after Dr. Narud in WoL.

7. Samir Duran/Dr. Narud convinced Mengsk to house his hybrid experiments and he knew the truth behind Kerrigan's creation, so he needed to clean her out. The WoL secret mission proved the Dominion was involved with the hybrids and Valerian Mengsk was the real owner of Narud's Moebius. The whole xel'naga artifact campaign was a plan from Dr. Narud and Mengsk (under Dr. Narud's influence) to assassinate Kerrigan and they hired Tychus for the job and decided to use Jim Raynor as a decoy They would probably succeed if wasn't for Valerian Mengsk betrayal. Valerian probably discovered what was the real objective of the xel'naga artifact and that his father was under Dr. Narud's control and Raynor was his only hope to fight this threat.

8. Alexei Stukov presence in HotS makes things even clear. He somehow finds out Samir Duran was infested (and he says that in his dying words in Brood War), hence Admiral DuGalle was conviced by Duran to elminate him and hide the truth. He was revived as an Infested Terran in the N64 secret Resurrection IV campaign and later purified. The Deception mission revealed he was involved in somekind of research involving technologies from both Zerg and Protoss, probably indicating he knew who Samir Duran really was or, Samir Duran/Dr. Narud had something of involvement in the Deception's ship researches and Stukov was doing an investigation of his own (hence his brief appearance on that mission). Stukov probably find out something indicating Samir Duran and Dr. Narud are the same person on that ship. He's the one who find out Dr. Narud's location, informed Kerrigan of his whereabouts and even knew he wasn't human. His role was crucial in the entire SC storyline. I liked these because it makes both Resurrection IV and Deception key moments in the entire SC lot.

9. After Tychus was killed and the plan to assassinate Kerrigan was foiled by both Raynor and Valerian. Zeratul knew about the danger she was under her current human form, so he decided to inform Kerrigan about Zerus and the primal Zerg. Kerrigan also became aware of Amon, so she needed to get back her Queen of Blades powers again, but this time, free from Amon's dark influence.

What is not clear to me is why Kerrigan wanted to kill Mengsk so badly? Just because he betrayed her or because she knew he was involved with Samir Duran/Dr. Narud? I hope in Legacy of Void this makes clear.
Click to expand...

Now, let's get this done. Spoilers are for the whole campaign of HotS.

1. He stated he was working for a Higher Power, which was specified to be the Dark Voice in SC2.
2. Retconned for SC2. Originally the Overmind wanted to assimilate them to become perfect.
3. Retconned for SC2.
4. Kerrigan took them out because she wanted to in BW and intended to come back to finish the job. "They will all be in mine in the end. For I am the Queen of Blades and none shall ever dispute my rule again."
5. See 4.
6. Yup.
7. Sorta, in HotS
it is clarified/speculated by the characters that the artifact was necessary to jump start Amons rebirth
. Having Tychus kill Kerrigan was secondary and most likely Mengsks only/own goal given how hard he's tried to get her killed before. He holds a mean grudge.
8.
It was confirmed that his de-infestation mission was indeed canon by Metzen here, which Metzen forgot about and had him re-infested. He only suspected of Duran being infested in BW, he only knew his was a traitor.
9.
Zeratul clearly wanted Kerrigan to get more power to fight Amon, but Kerrigan was just there to get enough power to be able to assault Korhal.

And really, Kerrigan has plenty of reasons to kill Mengsk. His actions caused her to turn into the Queen of Blades, which kiinda weights heavy on her now that she's regained her human mind and realizes what she did. Now, she was about to let Mengsk be, but then he put out the "we killed Raynor, suckas!" TV spot which caused Kerrigan to seek out the swarm in order to be able to kill Mengsk and get #VENGEANCE
.

TreasureHunterG said:
It explains Zeratul's motive for his personal quest in Wings of Liberty. Explains there's hybrids seeded on many worlds around the Starcraft universe. Explains there's someone supervising it's creation (which is Duran) and after HotS,
is pretty much clear Dr. Narud is Samir Duran (he's not human, is a shapeshifter and was supervising the hybrids, same role from Samir Duran in Brood War, and Blizzard even confirmed both Narud and Samir Duran are connected, so all the SC2 plot gains much more consistency)
and more importantly, there is very powerful being is behind it
(which is clear now that is Amon)
.
Click to expand...

The Zeratul campaign in WoL and the secret mission answer most of those, with the exception of who's directing the experiments and why. Which HotS explains. Really, the only thing that they don't blatantly shove in your face is why Zeratul has been missing - and it's not like it's hard to piece together since all the protoss missions show what he's been up to in the past few years.
 
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