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//: StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm |OT| Like Riding a Bike

S

Skab

Member
Neki said:
That's the unmarked spoiler thread, and no one is using it!

I was re-watching the end cutscene in Starcraft 1 between Dugalle and Duran + Kerrigan, and my god, Kerrigan oozed so much personality in Starcraft 1 as the Queen of Blades, just the way she talked was awesome. I also miss old Zeratul, but can't do much about that.

On a spoiler related note, does Nova say anything
different to Jim if you helped her in WoL? I helped Tosh and she brought up that I didn't help her otherwise she'd look the other way. There was also the other time when you're going to go rescue Jim, Horner mentions they were going to send in Tosh, I wonder if that happens if you didn't help him.
Click to expand...

I'm still annoyed they didn't bring back glynnis talken campbell to voice her.

And to answer your question, no. Each branching story in WoL has a canonical path/ending that they went with for HotS. Siding with Tosh, siding with Hansen, and the nydus mission are the canon routes.
 
N

Neki

Member
Skab said:
I'm still annoyed they didn't bring back glynnis talken campbell to voice her.

And to answer your question, no. Each branching story in WoL has a canonical path/ending that they went with for HotS. Siding with Tosh, siding with Hansen, and the nydus mission are the canon routes.
Click to expand...

bleh that's disappointing

I guess canon gonna canon
 
J

J2d

Member
Crimsonlink said:
You Toss scum should expect a nerf to the Oracle soon. Its ridiculous how much damage it does so fast and if you have more than 3 say goodbye to your worker line. 25 DPS my ass how did Blizz let this pass the Beta?

I never thought there would be a hard counter to marines but Oracles are it unless its a huge number. /rant

On that note I expect the Medivac speed to have a higher cooldown or make it a research along with some other buffs and nerfs in the 1st patch. But it would be a bad idea to patch during MLG Dallas.
Click to expand...
I was about to say that its a useless piece of shit since every game I decide to use it I run into spores and turrets, like the reveal ability though.
 
P

profit

Member
J2d said:
I was about to say that its a useless piece of shit since every game I decide to use it I run into spores and turrets, like the reveal ability though.
Click to expand...

Well thats most likely because so many Toss are going for it, that other players are just defending against it preemptively. This will most likely change in a couple of weeks.
It could also be that you just get scouted everytime.
Have you tried proxy stargate?
 
L

LTWheels

Member
My thoughts on the story from the spoiler thread:

I enjoyed the storytelling, but did not enjoy the story.

There is two issues I have with the story. One general, one Blizzard specific.

The Blizzard specific issue is that they just tell the same story over and over with a slightly different take each time. Warcraft, Starcraft and Diablo all have the same story.

Fallen Hero - check
Ancient Evil - check
Antagonistic forces allying together to fight the bigger threat - check

The general issue is one that a lot of games fall victim to. That is a lack of boldness, consequence and permanences. Quite often in game franchises they are unwilling in their storytelling to commit to events that have significant changes on the story. You often see some kind of reset which allows them to continue the sequel without dramatic changes to the story. Or that there is never a finished trilogy. Something is always left open at the end so that they can keep using that character if they decide to make another game in the franchise. (eg Halo 3, MGS4, Dead Space 3 )

My issue with HotS is that they should have never returned Kerrigan to the Queen of Blades. I feel that they copped out of the bold move they made at the end of WoL by making her human again, permanently killing off the character of the Queen of Blades. That would have been quite a significant change to the story of starcraft. In the end the whole point of the expansion was to give the Queen of Blades a human mind so that she is now 'good'.

I expect LofV to about uniting the Protoss with the Zerg and Terran to fight the ancient evil. HotS has already set up the Zerg and the Terrans to be on the same side to fight the ancient evil.
 
D

DouglasteR

Member
Actually, its more to :

- Boring Blizzard Story - Check
- Master cliché - Check
- I always knew this and will only buy it when it´s 10$ - Check
 
C

Crimsonlink

Member
J2d said:
I was about to say that its a useless piece of shit since every game I decide to use it I run into spores and turrets, like the reveal ability though.
Click to expand...

Not until you proxy Stargate a Terran and they only have Rax with no Ebay at the 5 min mark. Zerg is lucky with not having to build a Evo chamber for Spores anymore. Terrans should be the same since WM shuts down Mutas anyways.

I mean the Oracle does 15 DPS + 10 vs light which is 25 vs SCV/Ling/Zealot/Marine/ a whole bunch of others. If your Oracle has at least 30 energy they are sure to get at least 2 kills if not 3 because the cool down is only .86 secs and the energy drain is 2 per sec after initial 25 starting energy.

They 2 shot any worker and 3 shot marine. They also have the same HP as a Stalker with more HP but less Shields and its an air unit. Turrets does about 28 DPS. Takes 5-6 shots to kill one. You can come in and kill a bunch of workers and take maybe 20 damage max if there is no unit and only 1 turret considering how fast they are, WM is the best counter to them right now from my experience. Need to leave about 3 to cover the entire line though.

Good news is that they can't attack air, would make Pheonixs useless and kill any sort of Muta play so Vikings is best bet to take them down. Oracle also good unit with Sentry, god FF, Guardian Shield and Zealot with Charge. Stuff of nightmares, add storm and you might as well GG.

In other words, I'm really struggling vs Oracle based builds which more Toss are spamming as I run into them and I hope it gets nerfed before MLG.
 
A

AdventureRacing

Member
Crimsonlink said:
In other words, I'm really struggling vs Oracle based builds which more Toss are spamming as I run into them and I hope it gets nerfed before MLG.
Click to expand...

Terrans are doing pretty damn good against protoss overall from what i've seen so i'm not sure this is going to happen.

The proxy stargate stuff does seem strong but i think they should give it time before doing anything rash. I daresay that voidrays and medivac boost need to be looked at first.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Crimsonlink said:
Yeah its hard to go 1rax FE now with the chance of Oracles at 5 minutes. If I see 2 full mining gas for Toss with no extra gates plus missing pylon then I cancel my CC and just make 2 rax and make an Ebay.

Pulsar beam needs to take more energy or deal less damage.

Protoss has become kinda gimmickly lately with early DT rush, 4 gate, 3 Gate + VR, cannon rushing or even a Mothership blink all in which was nerfed but still so irritating.

Good thing is that I'm not at a higher league and its easy to deal with the noobs but the ones that know what they are doing, its harder to deal with.

In fact I wouldn't be surprised if the new metagame was to scan at the 4-6 min mark if you can't scout the Toss's base.
Click to expand...

Could Toss EVER do a FE against Terran in WoL? Wall made it hard to scout so an early Robo was always necessary. Banshee openings needed them too. Plus Mauraders were scary enough that 1 base rax pushes were deadly unless you were also on 1 base and went for colliosi.
 
E

EscapingJail

Member
Wanna see a 22 minute PvP where the last battle looks like this?

1Jkqmvz.jpg
Click to expand...

Sure ya do! lol
http://drop.sc/310213

Fun note this is my 2nd PvP of all time in hots. Out of 20 games.
 
A

AdventureRacing

Member
ZealousD said:
Could Toss EVER do a FE against Terran in WoL? Wall made it hard to scout so an early Robo was always necessary. Banshee openings needed them too. Plus Mauraders were scary enough that 1 base rax pushes were deadly unless you were also on 1 base and went for colliosi.
Click to expand...

FE expands against terrans in WOL were pretty much standard. You rarely if ever saw players staying on one base and getting a robo. Also if you were facing a banshee opening or something like a 1/1/1 a FE expand was almost necessary.

If you opened with a robo and the terran just expanded you would end up quite a way behind unless you were able to damage.
 
E

EscapingJail

Member
ZealousD said:
Could Toss EVER do a FE against Terran in WoL? Wall made it hard to scout so an early Robo was always necessary. Banshee openings needed them too. Plus Mauraders were scary enough that 1 base rax pushes were deadly unless you were also on 1 base and went for colliosi.
Click to expand...

I used to do it and it was in the Korean metagame for a week. But yeah it sucks on a ton of maps. If it helps I beat select with it, so with that I can say it was a "real build". But its not possible anymore with the new reaper.

EDIT: sorry I thought you were talking about FFE. Not FE haha.

But yeah there are tons of FE PvT standard builds.
 
A

AdventureRacing

Member
EscapingJail said:
I used to do it and it was in the Korean metagame for a week. But yeah it sucks on a ton of maps. If it helps I beat select with it, so with that I can say it was a "real build". But its not possible anymore with the new reaper.

EDIT: sorry I thought you were talking about FFE. Not FE haha.

But yeah there are tons of FE PvT standard builds.
Click to expand...

If only cannon expands still worked in PvT, that shit was lots of fun ;;.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
AdventureRacing said:
FE expands against terrans in WOL were pretty much standard. You rarely if ever saw players staying on one base and getting a robo. Also if you were facing a banshee opening or something like a 1/1/1 a FE expand was almost necessary.

If you opened with a robo and the terran just expanded you would end up quite a way behind unless you were able to damage.
Click to expand...

I just remember 1 base collosi being the thing you almost HAD to do in PvT. Maybe that was the very early metagame and things evolved after I stopped playing.
 
J

J2d

Member
profit said:
Well thats most likely because so many Toss are going for it, that other players are just defending against it preemptively. This will most likely change in a couple of weeks.
It could also be that you just get scouted everytime.
Have you tried proxy stargate?
Click to expand...
I only play 4v4, I can never be certain about what my team is gonna do(even when things have been agreed upon!) so I'm hesitant to proxy anything. But yea I guess you are right about many toss using it for the moment.
I haven't gone DT's at all since it feels more fun to use oracles, at least the idea of it.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Are there any links that discuss standard openings for HotS? Liquidpedia still seems WoL focused.
 
M

Mononoke

Banned
Never beat Star Craft 2. Sounds like blasphemy, but I only played 75% of the game, but then got distracted with work. After moving, I lost my disc.

Really tempted to just buy this and jump back in. Or should I just go back and re-play SC 2? Does it even matter? (Story wise).
 
S

smr00

Banned
ZealousD said:
Are there any links that discuss standard openings for HotS? Liquidpedia still seems WoL focused.
Click to expand...
This would be awesome.

I have just been trying things like 1gate reaper harass into fast expand/tech (against toss) or 1gate reaper into hellion/hellbat/widow harass on zerg while pumping out mad rax. my win/lose ratio doing that is about 2-1 which isn't terrible considering i am not the best and i am in lower league play.

My problem is that once it starts to get mid-late game i have no clue what to do. If my harass into all in doesn't work im always fudged.

Catatonic said:
Never beat Star Craft 2. Sounds like blasphemy, but I only played 75% of the game, but then got distracted with work. After moving, I lost my disc.

Really tempted to just buy this and jump back in. Or should I just go back and re-play SC 2? Does it even matter? (Story wise).
Click to expand...
Honestly it really doesn't matter. I mean if you don't want to re-play just read the wiki or youtube all the cinematics mashed up into a mini-movie and watch it, it's what i did before i played HOTS because i played WOL the day it came out and didn't touch SP since so i forgot everything.
 
V

Visualante2

Member
Logged in, my friends list is gone because apparently I don't have a real ID or a battletag. Can't add people from my Steam friends list because it's so convoluted (two forms for adding friends from 3 systems?). Suspect it may be region related.

Can't find the options to enable Facebook connect to get my old friends list back. Not that I care that much because most of them just play Dota 2 now anyway... still pretty shit "social" system they've cooked up. Never had any issues with it in WoL. Generally bad first impression to make when coming back from a hiatus.
 
E

EscapingJail

Member
Visualante2 said:
Logged in, my friends list is gone because apparently I don't have a real ID or a battletag. Can't add people from my Steam friends list because it's so convoluted (two forms for adding friends from 3 systems?). Suspect it may be server related.

Can't find the options to enable Facebook connect to get my old friends list back. Not that I care that much because most of them just play Dota 2 now anyway... still pretty shit "social" system they've cooked up. Never had any issues with it in WoL.
Click to expand...

They removed facebook connect.
 
F

f0rk

Member
Catatonic said:
Never beat Star Craft 2. Sounds like blasphemy, but I only played 75% of the game, but then got distracted with work. After moving, I lost my disc.

Really tempted to just buy this and jump back in. Or should I just go back and re-play SC 2? Does it even matter? (Story wise).
Click to expand...
I would go through sc2 again as the gameplay is pretty much the same
 
M

mr. puppy

Banned
you know, it occurred to me the other day why sc2 is losing popularity as an e-sport, and why HOTS didn't get as big of a reception as I thought it would. I think this is a mix of two things:

1) The main competition is MOBAs. The big difference is that MOBAs get large content updates every 3/4 months with new items, heroes, skins, etc. Starcraft 2 has been playable for almost 3 years, and it wasn't until this week that we got new content added to the game. I'm not sure how Blizzard can rectify this, since its not easy to add this to an RTS. Maybe adding something to single player would help. It mostly likely the complete train wreck of a custom map support system that they set up, which was what kept Warcraft 3 going for so long.

2) The most popular professional players are the same bitter, lazy and overrated people we've had since day 1. Its the same its always been in sc2: Koreans winning, aside from a couple tourney wins from Stephano, Thorzain, etc. Otherwise, we still have the same guys that just bitch about the game all day long, and their attitudes really don't translate well to sustaining a market.
In team games (fps,mobas) you have constantly changing rosters, and you frequently land on strong team lineups who can beat the top players (Na'vi in Dota, etc.). In SC2, we end up with MLG circuits (or especially the most recent team liquid invitationals) with players nobody has heard of and don't particular care about b/c of the language barrier.

Its a large problem with the RTS design it seems like, I wonder if Blizzard could make it work better if they force you to play BALLS through the sc2 client or something.

Anyway, these are random ideas that just popped into my head, nothing really concrete.
 
M

mr. puppy

Banned
EscapingJail said:
Hots came out two days ago. What?
Click to expand...

starcraft 2's viewing numbers having been dropping steadily. HOTS peaked it back up, but by using pro-stream numbers as a sort of rudimentary popularity rating system, the numbers returned to roughly where they were a year ago and not necessarily at their peak.

Also holy shit if a good Terran doesn't start streaming soon (no, Demuslim is not a good Terran) I'm going to go fucking nuts. Give me Polt or Thorzain ffs.
 
R

Ravager61

Member
Sorry if this has been answered but I am a complete Starcraft newbie and I want to try to learn "competitive" SC2. I never got into SC2 originally because I was heavy into fighting games at the time but I'm ready for something new. I assume with HOTS coming out, now is as good a time as any to try and learn.

What are the best guides out there to learn the basics? Again, I am very new. My RTS experience is almost entirely limited to single player campaigns.
 
J

jschreier

Member
Ravager61 said:
Sorry if this has been answered but I am a complete Starcraft newbie but I want to try to learn "competitive" SC2. I never got into SC2 originally because I was heavy into fighting games at the time but I'm ready for something new. I assume with HOTS coming out, now is as good a time as any to try and learn.

What are the best guides out there to learn the basics? Again, I am very new. My RTS experience is almost entirely limited to single player campaigns.
Click to expand...

Watch Day9! http://day9.tv/

His videos will teach you more about competitive SC2 than any guide could.
 
J

J2d

Member
mr. puppy said:
1) The main competition is MOBAs. The big difference is that MOBAs get large content updates every 3/4 months with new items, heroes, skins, etc. Starcraft 2 has been playable for almost 3 years, and it wasn't until this week that we got new content added to the game. I'm not sure how Blizzard can rectify this, since its not easy to add this to an RTS. Maybe adding something to single player would help. It mostly likely the complete train wreck of a custom map support system that they set up, which was what kept Warcraft 3 going for so long.
Click to expand...
Well the team matches support is horrible, it was pretty much the same maps forever, some of them were horrible. I hope they put some effort in this time. And while I agree that skins are probably not viable I would love a protoss steam punk one.
 
E

EscapingJail

Member
Ravager61 said:
Sorry if this has been answered but I am a complete Starcraft newbie and I want to try to learn "competitive" SC2. I never got into SC2 originally because I was heavy into fighting games at the time but I'm ready for something new. I assume with HOTS coming out, now is as good a time as any to try and learn.

What are the best guides out there to learn the basics? Again, I am very new. My RTS experience is almost entirely limited to single player campaigns.
Click to expand...

Holy shit you sound exactly like me at the beginning of WoL. Like word for word that is something I would write lol.

Feel free to send me a PM if you want some personal coaching.
 
D

Draft

Member
I think the biggest difference is that all the major MOBAs are free to play. Is there a Nielsen for streaming e-sports? If there were I'd bet it would report that all those people watching MOBA are 13-25 year old males. Broke ass, no job having, doing school or nothing at all males, playing a game that doesn't cost a thing on a computer someone else bought them.

Free is a poweful thing. It lost much of it's meaning for me many years and many paychecks ago, but I can still recall a time when there wasn't a bill in the ATM small enough to do a withdrawl, and how tough it can be to scrape together the $40-$60 it costs to get a game.
 
S

ShaneB

Member
Ravager61 said:
I tried to watch some of his newbie videos just now but they seem to require more knowledge than I have. Any specific recommendations?

Again, total newb here so match analysis isn't very helpful at this point.
Click to expand...

The 'Game Guide' section on the main website is a good starting point :)

edit: EscapingJail I think I need to bug you more in game :p I think I'll get in contact over the weekend.
 
J

jschreier

Member
Ravager61 said:
I tried to watch some of his newbie videos just now but they seem to require more knowledge than I have. Any specific recommendations?

Again, total newb here so match analysis isn't very helpful at this point.
Click to expand...

Well, play the tutorials/campaigns so you get the hang of the basic mechanics and learn all of the multi-player units. Experiment with all three races. Remember some basic rules: make harvesters constantly; spend all of your minerals as quickly as possible; use hotkeys to make it easier to switch back and forth between armies and bases.

The best way to learn is really to just keep playing over and over again.
 
L

LTWheels

Member
When I finished the campaign I was lvl69 with Kerrigan. I went back and replayed the mission using the Master Archive to complete the missed bonus objective to get to level 70.

Level 70 achievement and picture wont unlock. Achievements are unlocking though, so achievements aren't down.

Don't tell me I'm going to have to start the campaign from scratch...
 
F

f0rk

Member
Ravager61 said:
I tried to watch some of his newbie videos just now but they seem to require more knowledge than I have. Any specific recommendations?

Again, total newb here so match analysis isn't very helpful at this point.
Click to expand...
There is stuff Blizzard have put in game that should get you to the point where you can understand Day9 videos
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
The spoiler thread should be called "like riding a bike" while this one should revert to its original title.
 
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