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//: StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm |OT| Like Riding a Bike

W

Wunder

Member
Had a pretty bad ladder day yesterday, but played a couple of TvPs with a friend last night and got in a couple games today and managed to get Rank 1/2 of my division. Maybe I can push for Masters in the next week, but I may be getting ahead of myself. I've always been the guy stuck in Diamond, only when I stopped playing WoL and just logged on to do placements did I eventually get dropped down to Plat, but before when I was playing I was always around mid-high diamond, so I'm pretty happy I can see some concrete improvement.
 
F

fanboi

Banned
Corran Horn said:
Finally promoted back to my normal Diamond rank. 14-4 atm.
nadadance2.gif




Maybe ill actually try for masters one day lol
Click to expand...

nerd
 
fatty

fatty

Member
Yay!

ob06OTb.jpg


I thought that I had made it to diamond once on WOL but looking back it was just top Plat.

Thanks FilterSC!
 
N

Novid

Banned
sixghost said:
It's still hard to look back at savior's career without thinking about what he did. I literally couldn't believe it when he was implicated in the gambling scandal.
Click to expand...

he also kinda ruined SC's chances of becoming sort of "adopted" Korean thing per-se. Government went after it, changed its rating from T to M and well...
 
A

AppleSmack

Banned
Etnos said:
Hey! I would love to have some feedback

I won this game, I think I did kinda OK.. but Im sure there is lots to improve and a plenty of noobness in it.

replay can be downloaded from dropbox:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/54496425/ZvT Etnos replay - Whirlwind LE.SC2Replay
Click to expand...

I am not a zerg player (currently Terran), but I did play Zerg in Wings of Liberty. I am also plat so you can be justified taking my advice with a grain of salt but here are the things I noticed:

1) Your opening is very poorly refined. You supply blocked yourself at 18 and was kind of late putting drones into gas. You were horribly late in grabbing speed (you had over 400 gas when you finally began it), especially since you intended to be aggressive with those zerglings.

2) You should not be blindly aggressive as zerg. At the very least you should have scouted his base to see where he is and what he was doing and taken map control by grabbing watch towers and having a ling sit outside his ramp to see when he moves out.

3) You had absolutely no idea what he was doing and if you had scouted and noticed he was chilling on 2 bases you should have gotten further ahead economically by grabbing a 3rd base instead of attempting an attack that simply would not work. That ling attack actually put you behind IMO. Those lings could have been so many drones. However, with proper scouting I can see those lings being justified considering he was one basing for so long. However, you clearly didnt know that since you intended to be aggressive with them instead of defensive.

4) I notice that most zerg players feel safe in getting their 3rd by 6 mins in the game. Obviously stuff like that varies depending on what you scout, but generally if the Terran did a fast expand (I know he didnt) he is unlikely to do much outside of a few drops before the 10 minute mark. This case you were perhaps justified in not grabbing that 3rd until you verified the Terran built his expansion, but after that you definately should have. You should only start massing units to prepare for an incoming push after your 3rd base builds as Zerg if the terran grabs an expansion.

5) You did a nice job getting a decently timed hive tech, but where are your upgrades? You are floating so many minerals and gas and researching no ugprades. By the time you were building that hive you really needed a macro hatch and a 4th base.

6) Once again, you NEED a ling at his ramp to see when his army moves out. You had no idea that he left his base until his army was barreling down your natural and you had no time to mass units.

After you held off his attack though, the game was basically over and you won. Try to focus on your creep spread and map awareness and also your macro. You are floating way too many minerals even though you are not maxed out. Mass hatcheries if you have to, just make sure your money is always under 1k if you are not maxed (ideally, even lower).
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
holy tits, I'm finally back

Time to get back to the action
 
F

Felix Lighter

Member
Just finished replaying Wings of Liberty Campaign on hard. I probably should have played it on hard to begin with but, near launch, it was the first RTS of that type I played since I played Brood War. Definitely a big fan of WoL's missions.

Brutal is probably beyond me, still.

Now I'm ready to play the HotS campaign.
 
fatty

fatty

Member
AppleSmack said:
You a boss now. Big congrats!
Click to expand...

My wife says she's no longer embarrassed to be with me in public now, haha. Not proud mind you, just not embarrassed. Maybe with master...

Etnos said:
Hey! I would love to have some feedback

I won this game, I think I did kinda OK.. but Im sure there is lots to improve and a plenty of noobness in it.

replay can be downloaded from dropbox:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/54496425/ZvT Etnos replay - Whirlwind LE.SC2Replay
Click to expand...


Hey Etnos! Had a chance to look at your replay, here are some comments:

0:55 You're at 8/10 food with 195 minerals and three larvae just sitting there, you gotta put those to work bud. Early game for any race it is CRITICAL that you are popping out workers as soon as you are able. Drone until 9/10 and make that overload as soon as you get 100 minerals. I can't stress this enough, make sure you are making workers as soon as possible.

3:54 One thing to work on is to tighten up that build. What this means is that you want to concentrate on making units and buildings at certain timings and hit certain benchmarks. You were supply blocked at both 10/10 and 18/18, not only does this hurt production but it stops new larvae from being made which means less workers at the beginning.

4:30 Don't forget to transfer drones to your secondary. Just grab a few from your main and have them mine from the second base as soon as it finishes. On this match your natural expansion finishes at 4:30 but you don't have any drones mining from it until 5:18. Most of the time, unless there is some cheese, you have that first 6 minutes to really focus on droning up, so keep at it and drone like a madman. You had a little over 30 drones at 8 minutes, you really want to aim for more than 50. How do you do that? Check out the link to FilterSC's guide that I posted below.

I'm going to copy what I wrote earlier in this thread because I think it applies here. The most important thing that I think you can work on is your macro and also knowing what your opponent is doing. The guide by FilterSC will help you far more than focusing on different aspects of your replay at this point.

Posted from earlier:

I would strongly recommend you check out this guide over at teamliquid.net:

Bronze to Masters Guide (by filtersc)

He has developed an excellent guide that will help you be a better player, basically by improving your macro (ability to manage your economy and army) by giving you benchmarks according to your skill level. He breaks down the game and tells you key areas to focus on. After you are able to achieve those targets, he slowly adds additional ones so you can add to your skill set.

I can't recommend this enough. You will improve. You might not be able to deal with the early all-ins, cheeses, and a real early pressure but that will come in time. And he also has replay packs at each level (bronze, silver, gold, etc.) so you can also see how he dealt with certain situations.

Each of the sections of the guide is broken into a certain youtube video, after you have mastered the benchmarks in that video, you move to the next one. Don't move too early, really know that you are hitting those benchmarks consistently. For reference, here are the first three episodes (along with applicable benchmarks) for the Terran and Zerg:

Bronze To Masters Episode 1 - The Basics

Quick Reference Benchmarks
50 Scvs @ 10:00
3:45 Natural Started

Bronze To Masters Episode 2 - Bronze League Demonstration

Bronze To Masters Episode 3 - Building Groups

Quick Reference Benchmarks:
50 Scv's @ 10 minutes
3:45 Natural Started
6:50 Factory Started - Take Third Gas
7:55 Starport Started - Reactor Started on Fact (or techlab for tanks/naked starport vacs)
10 Minute Push Out With 100 Food of Units
Click to expand...

Bronze to Masters Zerg Episode 1 - Perfecting the Basics

Quick Reference Benchmarks
35 Drones (Including ones in production) @6 minutes
55 Drones (Including ones in production) @8 minutes
10 Combined Queen Energy @10 minutes (After next injects for each queen)

Non Essential Stuff (Don't benchmark this stuff yet, but it will help you execute properly)
14 Pool
15 Hatch
1 Pair of Lings
Quad gas @ 6minutes
Roach Warren @ 7minutes (Or before to block hellions)
Double Evo @ 7minutes (Or before to block hellions)

Bronze to Masters Zerg Episode 2

Quick Reference Benchmarks
35 Drones (Including ones in production) @6 minutes
55 Drones (Including ones in production) @8 minutes
10 Combined Queen Energy @10 minutes (After next injects for each queen)

Non Essential Stuff (Don't benchmark this stuff yet, but it will help you execute properly)
14 Pool
15 Hatch
1 Pair of Lings
Quad gas @ 6minutes
Roach Warren @ 7minutes (Or before to block hellions)
Double Evo @ 7minutes (Or before to block hellions)

Bronze to Masters Zerg Episode 3

Quick Reference Benchmarks
35 Drones (Including ones in production) @6 minutes
60 Drones (Including ones in production) @8 minutes
10 Combined Queen Energy @10 minutes (After next injects for each queen)
4 Queens @ 6:30
Lair Started, 2 Evo, Roach Warren Starting @ 7:00
150 Food, +1 +1, Roach Speed @ 11:00
Click to expand...

Start off just practicing against a very easy computer opponent. Make sure you have a notebook to document your progress when you review the replay to check your benchmarks. When you are consistently hitting every benchmark, jump online to test your skills against human opponents.

You will lose some matches to early pressure and cheese. Don't sweat it. After you've learned basic mechanics, dealing with these other situations will come. If you are still debating a race and do get frustrated with early pressure, I would choose Terran or Protoss over Zerg when using the guide because the concepts will translate over the easiest. That being said, I am Zerg and love this guide, it will just be a bit harder to deal with the earlier pressure because of the timing that you crank out roaches.

Keep in mind, I'm no SC expert but I love the game and I know how much this guide has helped me. I'm getting back into playing 1v1 again and I need to get back to where I was in the guide (which I believe is episode 4 or 5). Just for reference I am currently a high plat/low diamond level player but where I am in the guide in regards to benchmarks I have to check.

If you have any questions, don't hesistate to post in this thread as there are some great people who will help you out. Have a problem in a match and you don't know what you did wrong, send me a replay and I will take a look.

Don't be intimidated playing 1v1, I was at first and you get used to it very quickly. Just get out there and have fun. GG. ( ._ .)
Click to expand...

Also, are you using hotkeys? Make sure you do, it will be awkward at first but you will get used to it eventually. What about assiging your main structures to hotkeys? At the very minimum I would group all of your hatcheries on one hotkey and have your queens on another. It is going to vary for different people, so use what is most natural for you. What I like to do is have all my hatches on 3 and my main queen on 4, natural queen on 5 and queen at my third on 6. But again, find something that works for you and stick with it.

Strongly recommend you check out these two guides:

Daily #252 - Secrets of Hotkeys, APM and Mouse Movement

Daily #257 - Refining Mechanics

Applesmack also touched on this but make sure you have a set of lings outside his base to see when he moves out. If he kills the zergling make sure you replace it with another one maybe moved out a bit more. I think at a minimum you need to see when his army moves out and when your Lair is finished have your overseer scout his base to see his tech.

If you want to know what to look more with regards to scouting, I've posted some of my previous replays and how I responded to early pressure below. If you're interested you can take a look but more importantly look at the guides above and focus on those first. You really want to nail those basics. If you have any questions ask away!

From earlier:

Ketch said:
I'm gonna focus on incorporating actual scouting into my game so, newbie question: When do you send your scouting drone? Like specifically, is it at a certain supply? or time?
Click to expand...

I see that you are also following FilterSC's build (as am I) so I will offer a little advice on what I'm doing. I used to always scout with the first drone made after my 9-Overlord but don't anymore and just focus on my macro early game. I still scout, just not with drones.

So for ZvZ:

I send my very first Overlord toward their natural expansion. My second Overlord (which is normally sent to my natural to scout canons or bunkers from Protoss or Terran) is instead sent a little outside my natural expansion along the opponent’s path to my base. The first Overlord will help spot zerglings coming your way if your opponent does a very early aggression and the second will help spot and also detect if he starts making banelings outside your natural.

I used to send my first Overlord directly in their base if positioning was close enough but I would then miss the zerglings coming my way if he decided to do a 6-10 pool so I've seen that this way helps me more. If no early aggression is coming my way as soon as my pool is finished I pop out 2 zerglings to scout and see what he is doing.

The ZvZ match-up I think is the trickiest because with the FilterSC build the 15-hatch can make it tough to hold off from very early aggression. But with experience it gets a little easier to know what to look for and how to react. Also having a spine early at each base (I believe part of the build) helps out quite a bit. Below are some of my replays with different early aggression situations and what I was looking for:

10 pool all in with drones:
http://drop.sc/313793

Best case scenario on scouting is if their base is situated where your first Overlord can follow the path AND still get into their base but in this case I would have missed the zerglings if I did a straight shot over. As soon as my overload caught the zerglings coming I used my larvae to make zerglings and popped down a spine. Kept my hatch going at my natural in case he attacked that first to buy me more time and then I would cancel at the last minute. But he didn't attack it and I was able to use it as well.

6 pool
http://drop.sc/313800

My overlord was able to catch the zerglings coming even though he tried to stay away from the overlord's vision. As soon as my pool hatched I threw down 2 spines because it seemed like quite a few zerglings. I was hoping he would stop at my natural to give me more time but he was smart to go after my main. I canceled the natural to give me more economy to hold them off. After this initial stop I didn't handle it the best but I was able to still get the job done.

Early zerg baneling pressure into mutas
http://drop.sc/313802

My zerglings at 4:30 saw that baneling nest so I had to deviate from the build and defend my choke and throw down a roach den early. During his attack I botched it a bit because I wanted to focus on the banelings and have two queens block my ramp to protect my main. Was able to get all of the banelings except one and I should have just let my drones mine because one baneling won't kill them.

As soon as the lair is done I always scout again as soon as possible. I think this is critical. The first scout gets you ready for early pressure but the overseer will spot what path they are going with their build. Because of this, even though my build was off, I was able to see that he had mutas and I dropped a hydralisk den asap.

Early zergling/baneling pressure large choke
http://drop.sc/311810

Even though I try to stick to the Bronze to Masters' build, I had to modify this a bit as well. With the large opening to my natural I knew it would be hard to hold off a lot of zerglings. But I saw he threw down his natural before me so I thought I was OK...

At the 5 minute mark I only see 4 zerglings and figure they were just scouts, but at 5:30 I see him bringing more so I plop down some more spines and my roach warren and gas. I didn't see banelings but I assumed they were coming so I placed my evo chambers to help wall off my natural. Sure enough, banelings came in as well as zerglings but since I had 4 queens at this point I was able to block the choke of my main (which I meant to do on the previous example) and prevent the banelings from coming in and eventually the roaches finally hatched to secure victory. If he attacked earlier though, it would have been a lot harder to hold off.

Early roach push
http://drop.sc/313762

In this case when I get my zerglings there at 5:50 I see a roach den so I'm assuming one base roach so I pop down a couple of more spines and situate my evo chambers to help hold off the initial attack while sticking to the build as much as possible.

For Terran and Protoss:

I send my first Overlord to the choke of the natural to scout for an early expand. If I don't see anything against Terran I then move just outside their natural to avoid getting sniped by a marine, for Protoss you have a little more time to peek in before his cyber core and stalker are done. Again, for both races I make a pair of lings with my first egg after pool is finished to get more info. Remember, timing is critical so make sure you’re hitting those benchmarks from Filter’s guide. If you see double gateway or barracks there's a good chance he's sending early pressure so throw down a couple of spines at your natural and keep those same lings just outside their choke to see when they leave. I like to keep one at the choke and the other at the tower close to the opponent. If things look good (no rush by the opponent), I will make another pair of lings, one for the other tower and one for their third.

For all races:

Make sure you have your Overloads placed around the map at strategic spots (along the path for Zerg as mentioned above) and to watch for drops (esp. against Terran). As soon as that Lair is finished I make an Overseer to scout again before pushing out with the roaches. Don’t forget to hit ‘C’ to drop another spy before scouting with the Overseer. The info gathered at this spot will help determine if you keep cranking roaches or if you go tech and expand.

Hopefully this helps. I've been working on FilterSC's build but trying to figure out how to scout and focus on early economy without having to send a drone. Feel free to post replays on games you have questions on.


Ketch said:
Edit: the problem I have with scouting is that I feel like can never take my eyes off my base or my macro will slip. So I send scouts blindly to there death and then maybe I can see the shadow of an expansion on the minimap afterwards if I'm lucky. I need to practice macroing while watching my scout/army.
Click to expand...

I hear you, that is why I use the overloads now instead of worrying about my drone. Just gotta keep checking that minimap. Very, very important. I think almost all of my early reactions to cheese posted above were just by checking the minimap.
Click to expand...
 
F

Felix Lighter

Member
I'm definitely a screen scroller. Ugh. I'm so used to it and I know it's completely inefficient. I always forget to click the minimap, or even look at the damn thing. Fundamentally, I'm a mess.

Thanks for the video's, fatty.
 
J

JLeack

Banned
Felix Lighter said:
I'm definitely a screen scroller. Ugh. I'm so used to it and I know it's completely inefficient. I always forget to click the minimap, or even look at the damn thing. Fundamentally, I'm a mess.

Thanks for the video's, fatty.
Click to expand...

You aren't alone. I'm exteremely competitive so after every game I'm really hard on myself. I know what I did wrong but I'm super slow once in a game.
 
C

Crimsonlink

Member
StayDead said:
More importantly, why can medivacs heal stuff on the ground when they're in the sky by using some green alien beam stuff. :p
Click to expand...

Trust me, its way better than having the ranged Medics from single player in MP. Like Bio would not die to Colossus/Templar bad honestly.

Only thing missing would be drops.
 
S

StayDead

Member
Rank 2 in my diamond division and had some crazy long games today. People can't seem to stand mech, nobody ever ggs T_T

I just got a vbg just then even though I won :p
 
A

AppleSmack

Banned
StayDead said:
Rank 2 in my diamond division and had some crazy long games today. People can't seem to stand mech, nobody ever ggs T_T

I just got a vbg just then even though I won :p
Click to expand...

Storms are starting to disgust me. I think I might transition to mech against protoss. It feels winning against late game HT protoss is impossible with bio.
 
S

StayDead

Member
AppleSmack said:
Storms are starting to disgust me. I think I might transition to mech against protoss. It feels winning against late game HT protoss is impossible with bio.
Click to expand...

If I were you I wouldn't transition to mech if you think it's going to be any easier. Until you've played it a hell of a lot mech is pretty much you make one mistake and you die. It's a lot better in HoTS but you really need to understand it to win with it.

I've personally found on most maps like Planet S a 2-2 timing when you get maxed is pretty sick with tank/hellbat, but it's really hard to use. If you want I can maybe show you some replays sometime ^^
 
A

AppleSmack

Banned
StayDead said:
If I were you I wouldn't transition to mech if you think it's going to be any easier. Until you've played it a hell of a lot mech is pretty much you make one mistake and you die. It's a lot better in HoTS but you really need to understand it to win with it.

I've personally found on most maps like Planet S a 2-2 timing when you get maxed is pretty sick with tank/hellbat, but it's really hard to use. If you want I can maybe show you some replays sometime ^^
Click to expand...

It can't be harder than trying to beat HT protoss with bio. Ill appreciate it if you posted some replays :p There is a guide on TL I may look at as well.
 
C

Corran Horn

May the Schwartz be with you
https://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/9369230/

2ASX0QZ9S73V1364574146385.jpg


We're pleased to invite you to take part in the festivities with a brand-new Feat of Strength achievement, as well as three portrait rewards which feature the original Terran, Protoss, and Zerg StarCraft box art.



We feel these portraits pay homage to StarCraft’s remarkable history, and are a great way for everyone to take part in the 15-Year Anniversary. However, those of you who seek to unlock these unique rewards will need to first face a perilous field operation:
O0KAD20N7EBG1364582113743.jpg


Mission Objective:

Play one game of StarCraft II in any online mode before 11:59 p.m. PDT on April 17. (1 Remaining)
Beginning March 31, play one Arcade, Custom, Ranked, Training, Unranked, or Versus A.I. game to earn the StarCraft 15-Year Anniversary Feat of Strength achievement. As soon as you've received the achievement, all three portraits will be permanently unlocked in your StarCraft II character profile.
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Awesome :D
 
A

AppleSmack

Banned
StayDead said:
You going to be around any time in the next 4 hours in game? I can show you in game, it'll be easier and you can ask me anything you want to know :p
Click to expand...

I'm not guaranteed to switch yet just considering it. I'll tell you tomorrow if you are free wether I'd like to learn mech from you. Thanks alot though.
 
K

Ketch

Member
Oh man, that was a great post Fatty, should be in the OP.

I want to play but I've been super busy the last two days, and school starts up again on Monday (exam on Tuesday) so I need to study. I've gotten in a couple A.I matches, and it's really cool to see how much I've improved since I started. I've been kind of moving away from FilterSC's build and more into the stephano style of faster expanding earlier roach/ling map control, but that's just against the A.I.... Need to nail it down before I go back to the ladder.

Play one game of StarCraft II in any online mode before 11:59 p.m. PDT on April 17. (1 Remaining)
Click to expand...
I don't understand what this means? 1 remaining? I've played a bunch online already so I already win.
 
W

Woorloog

Banned
Corran Horn said:
Mission Objective:

Play one game of StarCraft II in any online mode before 11:59 p.m. PDT on April 17. (1 Remaining)
Beginning March 31, play one Arcade, Custom, Ranked, Training, Unranked, or Versus A.I. game to earn the StarCraft 15-Year Anniversary Feat of Strength achievement. As soon as you've received the achievement, all three portraits will be permanently unlocked in your StarCraft II character profile.
Click to expand...

HotS only or WoL as well?
 
W

Woorloog

Banned
Corran Horn said:
Just says SC2, they both use same client so I imagine it works for WoL too.
Click to expand...

I hope so... Would like to get the portraits but i won't be getting HotS anytime soon, can't afford any non-essential stuff like games at the moment.

Eh, are zerg still fucking boring in MP? You know, having to spawn extra larvae every 40 seconds? Also boring units...
Not that it would matter on my skill level, whether i do that or not...
Just wondering what my race is. I like Protoss macro mechanics but i dislike their lack of cool units (gimme back my Reaver), Terrans are not my thing and Zerg are cool but didn't feel so good when i last played (i don't remember when that was).
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
t is op as fuck
 
M

mackaveli

Member
What are the most common build orders for

PvP
PvT
PvZ?

Just got HOTS and have no idea what build orders I should be doing.

Started in bronze as I lost all 5 placement matches on purpose so I can practice the units.

Should be in diamond but want to start slow since I don't know how to deal with the new units on T&Z.
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Awww fuck... T_T

I4LfxvI.png
 
E

EscapingJail

Member
DAT SPRING BREAK TIMING

Gonna stream some 1v1 ladder in like an hour for an hour.

EDIT: OK I TAKE BACK WHAT I SAID, I'M FUCKIN SLEEPY AS FUCK.

tomorrow tho
 
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