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//: StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm |OT| Like Riding a Bike

S

StayDead

Member
celestial body said:
Apparently a dedicated anti air unit doesn't counter void ray, sorry whiny scrub zerg checkin in here
Click to expand...

It's called a hydralisk! :D Corrupters are already good against every other air unit in the game, they have to be weak to something :/


Got up to 4/7 now after my 0/5 losing streak earliar. Feel a lot happier but damn it can get annoying. I even said to myself before I played I knew it was possible for me to lose quite a lot in a row as the system tries to get me back down closer to 50%, but the stuff I was losing too was infuriating as It was so stupid :p

Also to chime in on the League discussion, as EscapingJail said in a game of Starcraft (unless you're team gaming) you only have your own skill to rely on and yes it takes patience to learn what the fuck you're doing, but when you eventually get the hang of something you feel like a king, a complete and utter king. League however everyone blames each other and the characters are so easy to pick up and master that it really doesn't lead to entertaining games unless you're playing with 4 friends who know teamwork exists.

The thing with League and DOTA clones in general is that the skill ceiling doesn't come from how good a player is, since the game is easy to play. It comes from the ability to co-ordinate. One of the EG guys even said it in an interview. The skill in League and Dota clones is in the communication, not the actual game.
 
C

Chris R

Member
Is my only counter to a massive protoss air deathball my own air deathball? Because yea, my upgraded blink stalkers did nothing :|
 
F

Felix Lighter

Member
I decided to just keep hitting the play button but on unranked. It went pretty bad but I definitely learned some things. Some bad habits are hard to break. I went 2 - 6. I did manage to win one where I felt like I made some good decisions along with some bad and didn't panic when things went wrong.
 
S

StayDead

Member
rhfb said:
Is my only counter to a massive protoss air deathball my own air deathball? Because yea, my upgraded blink stalkers did nothing :|
Click to expand...

From what I've seen of streams, Archon and storm together do really well against voidrays/anything air since nothing gets bonus damage against the archons and everything else stacks up.
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
StayDead said:
Corrupters are already good against every other air unit in the game, they have to be weak to something :/
Click to expand...

I don't know about that. Phoenix have a max range of 7 and their speed is 4.25. Corruptors have a max range of 6 and a speed of 2.95. As a result, Phoenix can kite Corruptors efficiently and thus the Corruptors aren't very effective. Corruptors melt to Void Rays. Heck, they're also pretty bad versus Carriers when they have air support to back them up.

I guess they're pretty good against the Terran air units.
 
C

Chris R

Member
StayDead said:
From what I've seen of streams, Archon and storm together do really well against voidrays/anything air since nothing gets bonus damage against the archons and everything else stacks up.
Click to expand...

I'll have to try that next time. There was just no way I was going to be able to catch up to his air army when I first encountered it in time, didn't think of adding archons and storm into my mix. Just kinda was like oh shit and added more stalkers :(
 
K

Ketch

Member
StayDead said:
Also to chime in on the League discussion, as EscapingJail said in a game of Starcraft (unless you're team gaming) you only have your own skill to rely on and yes it takes patience to learn what the fuck you're doing, but when you eventually get the hang of something you feel like a king, a complete and utter king. League however everyone blames each other and the characters are so easy to pick up and master that it really doesn't lead to entertaining games unless you're playing with 4 friends who know teamwork exists.

The thing with League and DOTA clones in general is that the skill ceiling doesn't come from how good a player is, since the game is easy to play. It comes from the ability to co-ordinate. One of the EG guys even said it in an interview. The skill in League and Dota clones is in the communication, not the actual game.
Click to expand...

I played a lot of league, and a little bit of DOTA, and I agree... to an extent. Teamwork/communication is definitely a huge part of it, but so is understanding and exploiting the metagame (which is where I think the large skill ceiling comes from). I don't mean like "the standard metagame says" I mean like knowing, understanding, and exploiting the things like gold/xp advantage, map control, player positioning and those higher level concepts... knowing what you have and what you should risk at any given time to create and exploit the snowball effect that those games are known for. The biggest problem I had with both League and DOTA was the people who play them, the community made me not want to play anymore, which saddens me.

I like star craft just as much, but it's a lot harder to get the feeling of small victories, and there's no one else to blame when you loose which makes loosing feel so much worse. The community is like the exact opposite of LoL and DOTA, where good manners are the norm and bad manners are really frowned upon.
 
M

mbmonk

Member
JLeack said:
I thought I wanted to be good at this game but I give up. Honestly, this game just makes me upset. There's no reason to play a game if it isn't fun.

Whenever I play League of Legends I have a blast. It is challenging but I can relax while playing. StarCraft II is like going into brain surgery without anesthesia.

I can see why SCII is struggling to be a popular game. If it weren't for the super hardcore players who somehow actually enjoy it—or do they?—then it'd be in shambles.

#OVERIT
Click to expand...

1) I think he needs to find a modern version of the SC1 BGH map ( infinite gas and minerals in your starting base ) and just play unranked team games on it. You can just relax and have a great time. Get a Mothership with 15 carriers and laugh.

2) Also come by GAF night if your schedule permits. We played some arcade games that were a blast. GAF night isn't all high pressure 1v1 games.

3) If you want to improve you might look into getting a coach of some sort. Either paid or free. That might help you improve faster and see those smaller improvements in your game that will keep you excited to play.

Regardless best of luck.

EDIT: Found a remake of BGH, maps seems to be called "Thee Big Game Hunters" :p
 
A

AppleSmack

Banned
JLeack said:
I thought I wanted to be good at this game but I give up. Honestly, this game just makes me upset. There's no reason to play a game if it isn't fun.

Whenever I play League of Legends I have a blast. It is challenging but I can relax while playing. StarCraft II is like going into brain surgery without anesthesia.

I can see why SCII is struggling to be a popular game. If it weren't for the super hardcore players who somehow actually enjoy it—or do they?—then it'd be in shambles.

#OVERIT
Click to expand...

I think its a phase everyone goes through. You just have to learn to accept the fact that you will lose. You will lose a lot. The system is designed to give you a 50% win rate. Thus, just don't worry about it and ladder. One thing that really helps is not focusing on winning, but focusing on improving. Let say you are zerg and this match you simply want to get your injects down. Who cares about winning? Even if you lost, but your injects are great, then count it as a win and move on. You will progress much farther in this game that way and soon you will get over your fear of losing and being miserable when you do.

Don't give up :p

Oh btw, there are many maps out there that still let you play starcraft but do it in fun ways. Try the micro/macro maps or the instant build + infinity resources maps. They are awesome.
 
M

mbmonk

Member
AppleSmack said:
I think its a phase everyone goes through. You just have to learn to accept the fact that you will lose. You will lose a lot. The system is designed to give you a 50% win rate. Thus, just don't worry about it and ladder. One thing that really helps is not focusing on winning, but focusing on improving. Let say you are zerg and this match you simply want to get your injects down. Who cares about winning? Even if you lost, but your injects are great, then count it as a win and move on. You will progress much farther in this game that way and soon you will get over your fear of losing and being miserable when you do.

Don't give up :p
Click to expand...

Great point. I hit that phase just last week. I lost about five ladder games in a row. I was thinking about dropping SC2, but I decided I was going to push through and keep at it. This week, I am loving the game again. :)
 
F

Felix Lighter

Member
EscapingJail said:
In this game you don't have a team to rely on. If you fail it's only your fault and nobody elses.

Most people who realize that can't handle it. So don't worry you aren't alone there.

The greatest thing about Starcraft is that the skill ceiling is much much higher than almost any other competitive game played today. That's what makes it fun to watch/play.

You can't just go in and have an epic hour long game without learning all the little things that go in between. Those immaculate marine splits, the crazy cheese holds, the imba timing attacks all from hours and hours and hours of practice and dedication.

I guess I went on a little rant there but the point I'm trying to make here is Starcraft puts hair on your chest. if solid snake played a game it would be fuckin Starcraft.

edit: I might be a little drunk right now so please excuse me.
Click to expand...

Whether or not I ever get any good at the game and whether or not I stick with playing multiplayer, I will always appreciate the game for the reasons you mentioned. I've played enough to have a sense of how crazy difficult it must be to play StarCraft 2 at a very high level. That is why I love the game despite the fact that I struggle so much while I actually play. It's the only game that I will sit and watch someone else play for hours completely enthralled by the skill the pros demonstrate.
 
S

sixghost

Member
Felix Lighter said:
6 pooled. Ha! I'm done. Quit the second I saw the lings pass the watch tower.
Click to expand...

If it's something you're coming up against pretty often, you just need to watch a game where it gets held effectively, and keep practicing until you can do it. It's those kinds of extremely early-game cheese that requires you to stay calm and know exactly what to do. I used to lose to bunker rushes all the time in BW and one day I just sat down, wrote down exactly what I need to do to stop it, and practiced it maybe 10 times in a row.
 
F

Felix Lighter

Member
sixghost said:
If it's something you're coming up against pretty often, you just need to watch a game where it gets held effectively, and keep practicing until you can do it. It's those kinds of extremely early-game cheese that requires you to stay calm and know exactly what to do. I used to lose to bunker rushes all the time in BW and one day I just sat down, wrote down exactly what I need to do to stop it, and practiced it maybe 10 times in a row.
Click to expand...

No doubt. Practice is what I need. I'm not paying my dues. In that particular case, I saw the Lings run by my scouting SCV and when I went back to my base to finish my wall off, I noticed my barracks was building a square off. I'm sure it was still a very winnable situation for someone who knew what they were doing but I just quit, like a punk.
 
S

sixghost

Member
Felix Lighter said:
No doubt. Practice is what I need. I'm not paying my dues. In that particular case, I saw the Lings run by my scouting SCV and when I went back to my base to finish my wall off, I noticed my barracks was building a square off. I'm sure it was still a very winnable situation for someone who knew what they were doing but I just quit, like a punk.
Click to expand...

That's nothing to get frustrated about. Just make sure you learn the lesson and try not to make the same mistake next time.
 
F

f0rk

Member
Felix Lighter said:
No doubt. Practice is what I need. I'm not paying my dues. In that particular case, I saw the Lings run by my scouting SCV and when I went back to my base to finish my wall off, I noticed my barracks was building a square off. I'm sure it was still a very winnable situation for someone who knew what they were doing but I just quit, like a punk.
Click to expand...

Do you want to play some games tomorrow? I guess morning for you
 
F

Felix Lighter

Member
f0rk said:
Do you want to play some games tomorrow? I guess morning for you
Click to expand...

Possibly, tomorrow I have a family thing to go to noonish but I may be able to squeeze some games in in the morning. What time? I'm definitely up for playing gaffers for practice and learning.
 
J

JLeack

Banned
mbmonk said:
1) I think he needs to find a modern version of the SC1 BGH map ( infinite gas and minerals in your starting base ) and just play unranked team games on it. You can just relax and have a great time. Get a Mothership with 15 carriers and laugh.

2) Also come by GAF night if your schedule permits. We played some arcade games that were a blast. GAF night isn't all high pressure 1v1 games.

3) If you want to improve you might look into getting a coach of some sort. Either paid or free. That might help you improve faster and see those smaller improvements in your game that will keep you excited to play.

Regardless best of luck.

EDIT: Found a remake of BGH, maps seems to be called "Thee Big Game Hunters" :p
Click to expand...

For the record, I gave the game a good score in my review (which is on Metacritic). I acknowledge that it's a good RTS, but maybe not for me. I wish I could have gotten some tutoring, or found it in me to get better. I was so compelled to finally get good at an RTS, but after losing three games in a row to people who are obviously horrible (what does that say about me?) I just can't stomach it anymore. I feel heartbroken.
 
S

StayDead

Member
Felix Lighter said:
No doubt. Practice is what I need. I'm not paying my dues. In that particular case, I saw the Lings run by my scouting SCV and when I went back to my base to finish my wall off, I noticed my barracks was building a square off. I'm sure it was still a very winnable situation for someone who knew what they were doing but I just quit, like a punk.
Click to expand...

You think that's annoying? Try being 6 pooled when you're 14CC'ing. You manage to get your wall building, but it's kinda like a toss wall, you just hope to god they don't kill your building rax before it finishes. :p
 
M

mbmonk

Member
JLeack said:
For the record, I gave the game a good score in my review (which is on Metacritic). I acknowledge that it's a good RTS, but maybe not for me. I wish I could have gotten some tutoring, or found it in me to get better. I was so compelled to finally get good at an RTS, but after losing three games in a row to people who are obviously horrible (what does that say about me?) I just can't stomach it anymore. I feel heartbroken.
Click to expand...

I know the feeling. I lost 5 games in a row and I am in Bronze league... there is not a lower league for me to drop to :).

If the game just isn't for you, I understand. I wouldn't push you to play a game you don't enjoy. I will just say this in closing on the issue.

There is a "Free Coaching Thread" on Team Liquid. Also I am terrible, and if you would like to play just add me as a friend ( I sent you a PM a while back ) and we can play just a relaxed fun game between gaffers. :)

Take care :p
 
K

Ketch

Member
mbmonk said:
Great point. I hit that phase just last week. I lost about five ladder games in a row. I was thinking about dropping SC2, but I decided I was going to push through and keep at it. This week, I am loving the game again. :)
Click to expand...

I'm in that phase right now, compounded by the fact that I need to get ready for class on Monday and study. Total bummer. =(
 
J

JLeack

Banned
mbmonk said:
I know the feeling. I lost 5 games in a row and I am in Bronze league... there is not a lower league for me to drop to :).

If the game just isn't for you, I understand. I wouldn't push you to play a game you don't enjoy. I will just say this in closing on the issue.

There is a "Free Coaching Thread" on Team Liquid. Also I am terrible, and if you would like to play just add me as a friend ( I sent you a PM a while back ) and we can play just a relaxed fun game between gaffers. :)

Take care :p
Click to expand...

I posted on the coaching thread and got nothing.
 
M

mbmonk

Member
EscapingJail said:
Ive been offering free coaching since day 1 of this thread and only had 1 gaffer take me up so far.
Click to expand...

Let me get #3 on that list :p

I am playing Protoss currently. I am doing the old 3 Gate Sentry Expand vs Zerg ( WoL strat ). It's the only build I currently know. I am going to add a PvP build next. I seem to play more Protoss in Bronze than Terran :).

If you can't add me to the list Escape don't worry. I have plenty to work on.. I am Bronze Baller :p. I am using TLs CecilSunkure's "How to Improve At Starcraft 2 1v1 Efficiently" as a guide to improvement. It's a great document. Besides at Bronze league I just need to learn to build workers consistently and spend my money. :p
 
E

EscapingJail

Member
mbmonk said:
Let me get #3 on that list :p

I am playing Protoss currently. I am doing the old 3 Gate Sentry Expand vs Zerg ( WoL strat ). It's the only build I currently know. I am going to add a PvP build next. I seem to play more Protoss in Bronze than Terran :).

If you can't add me to the list Escape don't worry. I have plenty to work on.. I am Bronze Baller :p. I am using TLs CecilSunkure's "How to Improve At Starcraft 2 1v1 Efficiently" as a guide to improvement. It's a great document. Besides at Bronze league I just need to learn to build workers consistently and spend my money. :p
Click to expand...

same thing add me to skype
 
C

Chris R

Member
Well I guess I'm not even good enough for Silver. Bronze here I come (unless losing again and again but not doing terrible is enough to stay in Silver :( )
 
S

Sibylus

Banned
Ecto311 said:
You have to be the bottom 8% to be in bronze right now.
Click to expand...
And oh how glorious down here it is. Spend a tedious amount of time building a glorious Battlecruiser fleet, mourn as nearly all of them are snatched into a giant Muta fuckball of death within seconds by Vipers. Agony.
 
S

SamuraiX-

Member
Bo said:
And oh how glorious down here it is. Spend a tedious amount of time building a glorious Battlecruiser fleet, mourn as nearly all of them are snatched into a giant Muta fuckball of death within seconds by Vipers. Agony.
Click to expand...

LOL

Imaging this in my head makes it that much more amazing.
 
S

Sibylus

Banned
I now know what it is to lose a sand castle to the tide.

"Okay, we're gonna inch forward carefully here and maybe try and bait them"
"Oh god what's happening where are my battlecruisers going"
"OH JESUS FUCK VIPERS REVERSE REVERSE NOOOOOOOO"
 
K

Ketch

Member
rhfb said:
(unless losing again and again but not doing terrible is enough to stay in Silver :( )
Click to expand...

It works for me!

But you guys are motivating me to embrace my beatdowns once again.

Repeat after me: it's okay to loose, it's okay to loose, it's ok to loose.

It's the only way to get better.
 
C

Chris R

Member
Ecto311 said:
You have to be the bottom 8% to be in bronze right now.
Click to expand...

I'm going to be close before too long if I keep losing. I just need to study up on how to make better decisions, because that is what is costing me. If I just played smarter I'd be cruising through silver and maybe even gold, because I usually win when my opponent makes worse decisions than I do :p

edit: losing can be good when it teaches me something, but when I keep making the same dumb decision again and again it sucks :(
 
S

ShaneB

Member
I think just sticking to 'vs ai' matches will keep me sane with this game. I'll never be any good to keep up vs other players, nor do I have the commitment to keep getting better, so just playin the ai keeps things calm and definitely a much more enjoyable experience for me.
 
K

Ketch

Member
Finally got another ladder match in, and I actually won to make it even better. I feel really good about this game, it went smooth while I was playing, and I had like really good scouting.. for me anyways. During the match I felt like I knew what he was doing, and then watching the replay I was totally right, and I don't even think it was coincidental.

It was against a gold randomer who ended up terran. I saw no scouts from him at all, and his base just looked weird (like empty), so I was fearing an all in. So I built a spore crawler tried to position an overlord and spreaded the creep out to the edge of main. I parked a zergling at his natural and then one just outside the his choke.

When I saw he still hadn't taken his natural when I was getting ready to take my third I decided to build a bunch of zerglings to deny his expansion. I was thinking I'm gonna force him to go all in air, and I'll be ready with queens and hydras. But when I went in to deny his expansion, I just happened to roll right into his main and kill all of his workers! It just felt like freakin perfect. And you gotta love that baneling sploosh.

http://drop.sc/316203

After rewatching the replay a couple times here's what I thought: I was really happy with my scouting, and my ling/baneling control to trap all of his workers against the wall. My macro is abysmal when I'm trying to scout at the same time, gyser with no workers, queens not injecting... ugh. Oh, and I built a useless evo chamber because I thought you needed an evo to make spore crawlers. At the end of the match though the game said I beat all of my averages on that first stat screen, so that was really great too.
 
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