Roaches tank a lot of damage and can heal whilst burrowed, Hydralisks are glass cannons that ideally sit behind the Roaches.
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//: StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm |OT| Like Riding a Bike
- Thread starter Corran Horn
- Start date
They're cheaper in minerals and gas, they don't require a lair, they build faster and have almost twice as much hp. They heal fast while burrowed and can move while burrowed if upgraded.
Hydras do a lot more damage, have longer range, and can attack air.
Check out Liquipedia for those kinds of questions.
Roaches less expensive than Hydralisks. Roaches are armored units (bad versus immortals), Hydras are light units (bad versus banelingsn Hellbats). Roaches faster off creep without upgrade. Hydras can attack air, Roaches can't. Roaches have more HP than Hydras...
And Roaches come out quicker and cost a lot less gas.
I fucking hate ZvZ, I beat off his first attack but then stupidly think it's OK to drone up my 3rd and he won't attack me again. Was ahead in upgrades but didn't get all my mutas in the muta vs muta fight.
Might just learn to 6 pool every ZvZ instead
Actually looking at the after game graphs he just played tighter so whatever
I fucking hate ZvZ, I beat off his first attack but then stupidly think it's OK to drone up my 3rd and he won't attack me again. Was ahead in upgrades but didn't get all my mutas in the muta vs muta fight.
Might just learn to 6 pool every ZvZ instead
Actually looking at the after game graphs he just played tighter so whatever
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
Finally did my 1vs1 placement matches for HotS, and just as always I placed in my good ole Bronze league. No real surprise there, lol. Only won one of my placements, against a bronze Protoss who tried to cannon rush me. I'm actually proud that I pulled this one out, although from watching the replay I still made mistakes and should have won even more decisively:
http://drop.sc/316369/d
Here are my four losses during placements:
http://drop.sc/316366/d (Protoss zealot push just messed me up enough to give him the egde)
http://drop.sc/316367/d (the other Zerg went Muta/Zergling and pretty much dominated me)
http://drop.sc/316368/d (I base trade with the Terran and my lack of AA allow his army to win in the end, my roaches couldn't take down his flying CC)
http://drop.sc/316369/d (I made a bad push and lost my entire army to the Terran, then he rolled me)
I just suck, lol. If anyone wants to watch any of these and give me pointers feel free, criticize away. I need to work on everything pretty much if I ever want to get out of Bronze...
http://drop.sc/316369/d
Here are my four losses during placements:
http://drop.sc/316366/d (Protoss zealot push just messed me up enough to give him the egde)
http://drop.sc/316367/d (the other Zerg went Muta/Zergling and pretty much dominated me)
http://drop.sc/316368/d (I base trade with the Terran and my lack of AA allow his army to win in the end, my roaches couldn't take down his flying CC)
http://drop.sc/316369/d (I made a bad push and lost my entire army to the Terran, then he rolled me)
I just suck, lol. If anyone wants to watch any of these and give me pointers feel free, criticize away. I need to work on everything pretty much if I ever want to get out of Bronze...
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Ok, thanks guys.
I hate current ZvZ, ling/bane/muta every game. How do you break out of this? Early roach all in? One base roach -> lair -> hydra before expanding? I don't think you'd have enough gas.
Spend your money yo, if you are going to go gasless for so long you definitely should take a fast 3rd. You were doing well building drones (too many almost) but you didn't have the infrastructure to spend what you were mining. Roaches don't get anything from +1 melee ;p. You engaged at a really bad angle and more than half your stuff wasn't attacking, you should have ran away. Use overlords to scout and put them around the map where it might send his dropships, and to know when he takes his third.
Again, spend your money. In ZvP (and ZvT a lot of the time) you should get another pair of Queens as soon as the first 2 are done to start creep spread, this would have helped a lot against the Mothership Core. Your problem with the Zealots was getting supply blocked at 28 you probably would have been ahead if that didn't happen, although I think you still had unspent larva while sitting on 500+ minerals after you built 4 overlords. Remember 4szzzzzzzzzz when fighting. First 100 gas goes on Zergling Speed. You overdroned on 2 bases again lol, normally it's the other way round in bronze, you should have 16 on minerals at each base to have it saturated. This is particularly dangerous when you don't know what your opponent is doing so spread the overlords out more again and run in with a couple of lings every now and then. You were researching +1 melee when you had loads of Roaches again lol
Alright the late gases will not work in ZvZ. You need Speed and Baneling Nest right away. Get gas a drone or 2 after your pool. Remember to transfer drones, at one point you had 24 on your main and none on your natural which is a loss of income for you. This was pretty much a build order loss, although you did a fair bit with the Roaches you had a big bank again (this is bad) and you can't transition to Mutalisks after him effectively because he will win every fight as his Muta count will be higher. He did the standard ZvZ build but didn't attack early with lings, if he did he probably would have done a lot of damage then.
Also you got the melee upgrade again when you had Roaches and Hydras
Will watch some more.
I recommend reading this for build orders
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402758
celestial body
Member
There's a 10 pool into expand build which some masters players used to beat my sorry arse into the ground whilst doing my placements. Seems strong, actually will try to find the build order for myself.
Though i love zvz for some reason.
Someone go find Holden. He would prolly know.
I lost a TvP yesterday on Day Break where the Toss had a proxy base right away. By the time I saw it I thought he was on 4 base. Pretty annoying because I was gearing up for a one base attack early on. I should have won anyway but I handled a major battle poorly and ate some storms. Guy sucked. He had 9k minerals banked at the end of the match.
AppleSmack
Banned
Is it just me or do I play so much faster with little sound when I can hear myself clicking my mouse and hitting the keyboard keys.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
ouch,
btw what's everyones win rates if they dont mind sharing:
tvp: 45%
tvt: 54%
tvz: 61%
(win rates are under ladder -> statistics)
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
Teaching people how to harass in PvZ boooooo
EscapingJail
Member
here are mine
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
what terran build do you hate the most?
EscapingJail
Member
Most of my Terran losses are from before I learned the MC build. After I learned it I've won my last 3 ladder PvT.
So I wouldn't say I have a problem with the MU anymore.
But I guess if I had to say proxy factory would be annoying.
AppleSmack
Banned
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Thanks for all the advice. I've been trying it out and still lost my last 3 but it's a work in progress I guess. My strength has always been scouting and reacting but against zerg its a lot harder. It's probably time I really focused on how to correctly scout a zerg to know when to out macro/defend and when punish, which will take some time.
And for some reason everytime I watch one of those "here's how you make it into diamond league" videos I go on large losing streaks on all my matchups. It always makes me undervalue scouting, positionings, stratagy, harass, ext. as I overfocus on doing macro.
MegaKungFuRadio
Member
I played a map for the first time in two years today to get the 15th anniversary stuff. When did they start handing out APM like candy? I was at like 50 APM two years ago (not even during that strange era of effective APM screwing with everyone's perception of the whole APM concept) and it told me I was at 150 APM today. Or is Zerg (what I decided I was ready to start messing around with today) just three times more demanding than Protoss?
EscapingJail
Member
You automatically get a higher apm with zerg than the other two races due to the select all larva mechanic affecting apm.
Also blizzard messed with the apm two or so patches ago affecting the numbers for everyone.
Felix Lighter
Member
Grubby was fooling around playing Zerg and his APM was like 150 higher. He said Zerg APM is a little weird right now. Something about holding down the z key to create zerglings.
EscapingJail
Member
Pick an 8 player map. and hit add ai 7 times.
BOO, so angry. Played as Protoss against a zag player. Made lots of zealots and made a proxy stargate. Made 3 oracles and attacked his base. He scouted me once in the first 7 minutes. he was mostly in his base making units spine crawlers and structures but he made 4 spore crawlers just about 7-8 seconds before I attacked his base and killed all of my zealots with a few roaches and zerglings. His spore crawlers made short work of my oracles
Finally beat a protoss on the ladder.
My win/loss ratio was
ZvZ -> 33%
ZvT-> 50%
ZvP-> 33%
But that's not counting the last win against protoss.
I've come to realize that the reason some of my games feel "smoother" then others is just because I'm not getting supply blocked as much I used to be. Makes a big difference.
I know it's a rather boring match, but can someone look at this and be super critical of my macro please? http://drop.sc/316448
Things that I noticed: Good map vision, it would have been nice to get one more over lord on that south east corner, but I had the normal avenue of approach covered. Excellent timing for the attack, I had my roaches pre positioned by like 10:30 and was attacking his base right at 11 minutes. Missed injects, or slow injects... I was trying to do it based on the number of available larvae, but I still miss them whenever I'm watching my scout or army. I had some SICK micro, like outnumber his stalkers 3:1, surrounded him, got all up in his face, and then attacked the destructible plate and they got away =(. But on the plus side, I was only supply blocked for a total of 33 seconds that whole match, and I even suicided an overlord to scout his base.
My win/loss ratio was
ZvZ -> 33%
ZvT-> 50%
ZvP-> 33%
But that's not counting the last win against protoss.
I've come to realize that the reason some of my games feel "smoother" then others is just because I'm not getting supply blocked as much I used to be. Makes a big difference.
I know it's a rather boring match, but can someone look at this and be super critical of my macro please? http://drop.sc/316448
Things that I noticed: Good map vision, it would have been nice to get one more over lord on that south east corner, but I had the normal avenue of approach covered. Excellent timing for the attack, I had my roaches pre positioned by like 10:30 and was attacking his base right at 11 minutes. Missed injects, or slow injects... I was trying to do it based on the number of available larvae, but I still miss them whenever I'm watching my scout or army. I had some SICK micro, like outnumber his stalkers 3:1, surrounded him, got all up in his face, and then attacked the destructible plate and they got away =(. But on the plus side, I was only supply blocked for a total of 33 seconds that whole match, and I even suicided an overlord to scout his base.
it's the same with me when i offrace as terran or zerg. i'm pretty sure it's to do with drag boxing and counting each selected unit or something, so protoss's fat low numbers of units results in much lower APM than pushing zerglings or MMM balls around.
was it ever clarified why it was changed so that zerg are the only race to have no tech requirement for static air defense? feels like bad design to me.
You built a drone at 17 which slowed your first Queen by quite a bit.
You never actually scouted him, you didn't know if he had gone Stargate or if/when he expanded. I think some Oracles would have done quite a bit of damage, or if he was going to try and 4 gate you or whatever aggressive Protoss do atm.
Build a Queen at your natural Hatch as soon as it's done.
Build another Queen out of both Hatcheries as soon as the first ones are done, you were floating a lot of minerals at that time. Use them to creep spread more.
I guess it doesn't matter for your build but I would always get Ling speed.
Didn't matter but when you attacked you should have pulled just out of range of the cannons straight away.
I'm not sure what your opponent was doing he never got warpgate lol
Because of "early" widow mines (doesn't make sense tbh)
I don't think it really matters as if they haven't started upgrades by the time they want to build spore crawlers they are probably bad anyway. Although I don't know how fast you can rush a window mine into a mineral line.
celestial body
Member
Dreamhack is looking pretty good next month: Stephano, MC, Grubby, Hero, Jaedong, Gumiho, Ret, Leenock amongst those confirmed so far.
Ah, that fixes everything. Thanks.
Thanks fork! I added some comments, what do you think?
We should play again fork, I need to learn how to ZvZ.
I normally overlord on 16, spend my next two larvae on 1 drone and 1 set of lings, and then as soon as my overlord pops I have enough for the queen and I don't leave any larvae idling (not sure if I pulled it off correctly this game, I'll have to check again) I could just wait for the pool, and get the queen right away, but then I have two larvae just sitting... what do you think?
I know I've asked this before, but I just can't seem to figure it out. When is a good time to scout? I eventually suicided my overlord and saw the twilight council so I figured he was going ground. I feel like when I go earlier I don't get any information of value (2 gateways and a cybernetics core!). I like to park one of the lings on his natural so I know when that happens, but this game I had them at the watch towers and it felt good.
Yea, I'm supposed to have four queens total, but I screwed that up... by the time I realized it, I already had roaches available so I just built those. I know I should use queens for defense, but I am horrible with them. Lack of queens probably contributed to NOT getting supply blocked as well, so maybe I don't feel so good about how that went now... kind of misleading myself.
Like go for it early? or just pick it up when I can? I didn't get any hydra upgrades either, was just spamming units at that point. I've tried builds with earlier gas and it just screws me up... unless you know a good one you want to share...
I a-moved, tried to macro, and then came back to them.. it didn't go bad, but it could have been a lot worse.
Yea, he kind of just rolled over for me, which was nice. But it kept me in the top 25 of my division.
We should play again fork, I need to learn how to ZvZ.
celestial body
Member
ketch, you didn't know if he had gone nexus first or ffe or 4 gate or anything really, your first overlord can go to his natural to check, he won't have a stalker out at that time. You can then send your second overlord round for the base scout once you've made sure there's no cannon rush or proxy 2 gate. For instance if you had seen nexus first then you can consider going 3 hatch if you feel comfortable doing so. You know he won't attack in the near future. If you see no expansion quite a while into the opening then you know that either a. your opponent is bad or b. there's some attack coming soon. Send a ling in to see army comp perhaps. As zerg you really need to know what opponent is doing. the lings at the watchtowers were good.
Let's say (hypothetically, of course) that I want to get this game. Is there any reason I shouldn't just get the digital bundle online? Are you able to re-download it on a different computer? Is there a limit? I've never really... done this before so I don't know how this works.
You can download it as much as you want it's like buying from Steam
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
Thanks for all the advice forks. I know I have a problem with accumulating minerals, I always seem to be gas blocked so much more and I can't produce enough zerglings to use all the mins up. I probably need to throw down more hatcheries to be honest, more available larvae sure wouldn't hurt. And yeah I think I need to get at least one gas early on at least for the zergling speed, and maybe OL speed too.
I'm practicing build orders against the AI alot lately, the 1vsAI ranked matches have me up to the "harder" AI now, so I've certainly improved from where I was in WoL, which is good.
I don't know why but I actually rather enjoy studying my loser replays to see where I could have changed the tides of war. In almost all of my matches I lost windows of opportunity due to me being too passive or just not scouting enough. I find hindsight interesting...
You can download it on as much computers as you want. But when you play you have to be connected to Battle.net with one account at a time.
EscapingJail
Member
It's login based akin to World of Warcraft. You can login anywhere the client is installed and have an internet connection. There is no limit to the amount of PC's. But you can only be logged in one place at a time.
I think saving for the Queen is best, I think I've seen pros do that but I'm not sure if there's a reason. It's pretty small tbh.
I send one of the 2 drones that are built together after the 1st OL pops to scout and check for weird stuff. I don't really know the gas timings of other races so I can't really use it as well as I should but whatever. Then I run a ling at them a bit later. There should be 1 Overlord in the space close to his natural (above it on that map) that can easily check the mineral line. I normally send my first one there.
I agree with celestial that the biggest thing in that game was you didn't know what build he was on. I think most Protoss go Forge and expand, in which case you are safe for a bit but in not seeing that you should be ready for aggression.
About the Ling speed I don't really know what is right as I never build Roaches so just ignore me there.
The Teachinator
Banned
Hi. I'm pretty awful but I still find the game fun to play. Are there any good videos that explain what each protoss unit does and how to utilize them in a match?
I really like Apollo's tutorials but he hasn't got to HotS ones yet. EscapingJail or someone might be able to comment on how relevant these are in the new meta
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
I am, and it slaughters everything until they go skytoss
