Support NeoGAF

[Fess]

Yikes… it feels painful… I cannot believe the writer of that scenario had that in mind, so it looks like a “need to get it done, no time in sending this to even an outside studio to finish the assets and textures needed”. This feels like a game with a very long pre-production, a messy production phase with some issues, and then somebody was put in charge to drive it out to completion.

Yeah that particular quest was definitely rushed. And it was one of my favorites, on paper. The setup is brilliant, so much confusion and so bizarre and yet perfectly logical, don’t want to spoil it. But the execution was terrible. Fell flat on it’s face. Should’ve been a faction quest or expansion quest and given 100 more people to work on it.

 

[Roufianos]

Where have you seen praise and hype about the main story??

In the OT everybody has mostly been talking about side quests and factions and building ships and bases.

Only thing I’ve seen hyped up regarding doing the main quest was reaching NG+, was said to be something special that hadn’t been done before. Then there was talk about making sure to rush through the main quest because then the game truly starts or something like that, which must’ve been some weird troll because it’s quite possibly the worst advice I’ve ever seen given for any game.

A couple of Xbox podcasts I listen to were full of praise for the main story when the review embargo went up. Basically saying the first few hours are super slow but then it really goes places. I didn't see that at all, it mainly felt like fetch quests.

Cheers though, I'll check out the factions.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

Sounds like I'd rather reinstall New Vegas and mod it up.

I saw your comment Omega and it hit me. That's one of the games I've currently got installed on all my systems and always have had, the same with Max Payne, Painkiller and all three Stalkers

It's just a god given right at this point. New system? First games installed.

 

[Dorohedoro]

That was fire, should be included on the metascore. But I gotta admit... a galaxy run by space Karens sounds intriguing. Just not buy a whole-ass console for it intriguing.

I’d go as far to say there’s almost no sexuality present in the game whatsoever. As rare as it is I did manage to find some in Neon, inside the Astral Lounge, but it wasn’t what I expected. When I arrived, all I could see were some dildo looking guys in women’s clothes dancing on an elevated platform. I simply turned around and left.

Honestly, what is the deal? Murder is fine, theft is fine, fraud is fine, selling drugs is fine… all these things are totally ok but when it comes to female sexuality… that’s where the line is drawn?

I mean… wtf is this supposed to be?

Probably gonna have to wait for GTA VI if you want some decent sexual content in your game, unless Rockstar bends over to the "dOn'T sEcKsUaLiZe dA wOmAnZ" crowd and it feels like that could go either way at this point.

 

[Harlock]

Select first option to answer every question and everyone just like everything.

 

[Hudo]

 

[GHG]

Fret not, the team that brought you Saints Row 2022 will be joining XGS soon.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

You mean 7. Not to mention there's sexual energy everywhere, from billboards, jokes, porn, etc.

Unless you wanted the option to fuck every single npc?

I remember a rather disturbing side quest about some guy making snuff movies.

You won't get things like that in safe, corporate Bethesda.

 

[Pakoe]

Played that shit for 12 hours because I read that it "gets better".
No. No, it doesn't. Shits boring as fuck and really disappointing.

 

[hyperbertha]

Except Morrowind showed they can write great stories. But as mentioned their current lead writer is an idiot.

Morrowind's story was nothing to write home about. Just served as an excuse to play the game.

 

[ultrazilla]

Where have you seen praise and hype about the main story??

In the OT everybody has mostly been talking about side quests and factions and building ships and bases.

Only thing I’ve seen hyped up regarding doing the main quest was reaching NG+, was said to be something special that hadn’t been done before. Then there was talk about making sure to rush through the main quest because then the game truly starts or something like that, which must’ve been some weird troll because it’s quite possibly the worst advice I’ve ever seen given for any game.

Yeah, I wasn't quite sure if I should make "that decision" to keep "moving forward"(if you know, you know). There was a ton of side quests I still had wanted to do but figured things would continue but slightly differently.
Boy, was I wrong. Que end credits. Screwed my main play through.

 

[The Cockatrice]

I think Starfield isnt a very bad game, I am enjoying its gameplay loop and I enjoyed the vanguard quest line but its boring and the loadings ruin it so much that I am prolly gonna give it a thumbs down on steam once Im done.

 

[Drew1440]

The writing can't be that bad, Like Mass Effect Andromeda levels of bad?

 

[Fess]

Yeah, I wasn't quite sure if I should make "that decision" to keep "moving forward"(if you know, you know). There was a ton of side quests I still had wanted to do but figured things would continue but slightly differently.
Boy, was I wrong. Que end credits. Screwed my main play through.

Yeah I fully understand
Fortunately I didn’t like some consequences from some of my choices so I instantly started over with a new character and new plan. Taking it verrry slooowly this time.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I've got no high hopes about GTA. The way people get triggered for nothing nowadays killed satire. It's all about one extreme or the other, nothing in between. I miss the 90s.

I'm really hoping, with all the money they are the one studio that can think fuck it and push it more than anyone.
Would love to see some satire on current events.

 

[Drizzlehell]

If its stupid and it works, it aint stupid. You could technically do this in many games. I dont think you're going to get annoyed by skipping a poorly designed stealth mission like this in a 100 hour game. Just move on, and play the other million quests in the game. Theres a ton of issues the game has, but this aint it chief.

I'm just gonna post this here since the other thread got locked - I only got annoyed because I lost a few hours of progress, which isn't that big of a deal anyway.

The problem is that this is not just a fluke. There are plenty of instances where the game just refuses to be flexible in any way an it leads to pretty stupid situations that shouldn't even be a thing in a next-gen RPG like this.

For instance, not long after I posted my thread last night, I came back to the Crimson Fleet's station, and right out of the gate I was greeted by an NPC who's only purpose was to tell me that I need to go speak to the captain. Considering that this was my second pass through this section of the game, I just ignored that conversation and headed straight to where the captain was supposed to be but imagine my surprise when he wasn't there, and the scene that was supposed to be playing out didn't trigger. So I HAD to go back and talk to that annoying bitch at the entrance, otherwise the scripted story trigger wouldn't happen, even though her dialogue contributed absolutely fuck-all to the overall plot.

It's a very small example but it illustrates perfectly what is wrong with quests in this game. Why are we still doing this? The Witcher 3 - a game that came out 8 years ago - had quests during which random characters were able to establish causality and you could get around certain scripted events if you already knew what to do. But in Bethesda's world in 2023, you still won't get that kind of luxury because quest designers are lazy and therefore, you have to follow their script to the letter.

 

[Neff]

I don't run with companions except for the quest-mandatory ones, so I haven't seen too much bullshit from them, although it doesn't surprise me that it's there. I think the biggest problem is that in Starfield's universe everyone is either a trader, a courier, a pirate, a peacekeeper, an engineer, or some sort of official/VIP/political figure. You pretty much know who you're going to run into based on your surroundings and the dialogue usually reflects that. There's not much room for unique characters with any kind of off-beat flavour like you'd see in Fallout or Skyrim. I wouldn't dismiss the writing entirely though, I've played through a few quests which I felt were well-written and made me want to see what happened next.

It was marketed as a Han Solo simulator

Yeah that wasn't a good idea. As soon as we got a sniff of the 'NASApunk' aesthetic and the Jerry Goldsmith-esque score I knew we were in for an experience which was going to eschew any sense of irreverence or pulp space opera escapism we might be wanting and instead opt for something a little more spiritual and relatable. And I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. 'Skyrim in space' though is a fair (if broad) summary. I wanted and expected a version of Elite/Frontier where I can actually get out of my spaceship and go on adventures, and that's basically what I got.

It’s a galaxy ruled by Karens.

I feel like 99.9% of female characters by Western developers for the last few years were put through a rigorous Karen course and passed with flying colours.

 

[The Cockatrice]

I'm just gonna post this here since the other thread got locked - I only got annoyed because I lost a few hours of progress, which isn't that big of a deal anyway.

The problem is that this is not just a fluke. There are plenty of instances where the game just refuses to be flexible in any way an it leads to pretty stupid situations that shouldn't even be a thing in a next-gen RPG like this.

For instance, not long after I posted my thread last night, I came back to the Crimson Fleet's station, and right out of the gate I was greeted by an NPC who's only purpose was to tell me that I need to go speak to the captain. Considering that this was my second pass through this section of the game, I just ignored that conversation and headed straight to where the captain was supposed to be but imagine my surprise when he wasn't there, and the scene that was supposed to be playing out didn't trigger. So I HAD to go back and talk to that annoying bitch at the entrance, otherwise the scripted story trigger wouldn't happen, even though her dialogue contributed absolutely fuck-all to the overall plot.

It's a very small example but it illustrates perfectly what is wrong with quests in this game. Why are we still doing this? The Witcher 3 - a game that came out 8 years ago - had quests during which random characters were able to establish causality and you could get around certain scripted events if you already knew what to do. But in Bethesda's world in 2023, you still won't get that kind of luxury because quest designers are lazy and therefore, you have to follow their script to the letter.

Its a Bethesda game. I know, i know...its 2023 and blablabla, but if you've played their previous games you should've expected this. I certainly did after the first few hours in the game. Once I knew I was playing Fallout 4 in space with a million loading screens I dropped all expectations and managed to still play it despite all its issues. Let me just spare you the trouble, nothing in the game, in its 1000 planets will ever surprise or shock you(except the vanguard quest line which had a nice...lets say twist) and maybe the main quest. It wont get better, and nothing you'll ever do will feel fulfilling. Its a game you level up, maybe build your ship and just do the main faction quests and delete. Skyrim was the same, besides the main quest and the faction quests everything else was boring af. At least Fallout 3 and 4 had a sense of mystery throughout the entire exploration, you never knew what to expect but Starfield, has none of that, there is NOTHING fucked up, funny, super unique on any of the planets. Just rush the factions/main quests and move on to other games. Maybe come back in 3-4 years when modders may have significantly changed the game.

 

[Topher]

Lots of reviewers like matty plays

Did he talk about the full story beginning to end though? I never saw a final review, only an impressions video, but I don't recall him talking about the main story overall.

 

[ANDS]

Thank you for ignoring most of my post, focusing exclusively on five words I used as one of two examples of the storytelling I'm tired of, and then pretending I claimed it was "inescapable in gaming". I really appreciate it.

I didn't ignore your post. Everything I said applies to the entirety of it; I specifically quoted the "political" bit because it was the most eye-rolling.

Breaking news: online commenter discovers subjective options. More at eleven.

Nothing in my post was about the QUALITY of the writing, which is absolutely subjective. It was about the EXPERTISE in the writing, narrative construction and other facets of storytelling that you can level objective criticism at. It isn't a matter of "opinion" that the factions in STARFIELD have less depth and variance than those in BG3. That says NOTHING about whether someone will like one over the other (if someone straight up doesn't like medieval fantasy, why would I expect them to prefer the storytelling in BG3 over SF).

Look, I hate to break to a lot of you, but this kind of puritanism didn't suddenly burst forth the second a load of danger haired idiots got hired by Disney.

American popular culture has been replete with puritanism around sex and sexuality for decades. It's just that the lefties have now joined the righties in a horseshoe-meets-in-the-middle morass of puritanical nonsense that's made the problem a lot worse.

. . .yup. These are words.

 

[Paasei]

It’s just a typical Bethesda game. Nothing more and nothing less. The setting doesn’t change that. It’s hilarious(ly bad) at times and that is weirdly also it’s charm. These games are destined to be modded to shit.

Trough all the flaws it has, I somehow still have a great time with it. So yes, a typical Bethesda game in my eyes.

 

[Phase]

Morrowind's story was nothing to write home about. Just served as an excuse to play the game.

This is an absolutely braindead take. If we're comparing Starfield and Morrowind they're not even of the same world. Morrowind's story does way more to create a compelling world and characters by far.

 

[Phase]

It’s just a typical Bethesda game. Nothing more and nothing less.

Wrong. This is their worst product in almost every respect. It's not even at par with their previous releases. It's way "less."

 

[Drizzlehell]

Its a Bethesda game. I know, i know...its 2023 and blablabla, but if you've played their previous games you should've expected this. I certainly did after the first few hours in the game. Once I knew I was playing Fallout 4 in space with a million loading screens I dropped all expectations and managed to still play it despite all its issues. Let me just spare you the trouble, nothing in the game, in its 1000 planets will ever surprise or shock you(except the vanguard quest line which had a nice...lets say twist) and maybe the main quest. It wont get better, and nothing you'll ever do will feel fulfilling. Its a game you level up, maybe build your ship and just do the main faction quests and delete. Skyrim was the same, besides the main quest and the faction quests everything else was boring af. At least Fallout 3 and 4 had a sense of mystery throughout the entire exploration, you never knew what to expect but Starfield, has none of that, there is NOTHING fucked up, funny, super unique on any of the planets. Just rush the factions/main quests and move on to other games. Maybe come back in 3-4 years when modders may have significantly changed the game.

The "what did you expect, it's a Bethesda game" is just an excuse. Their games aren't evolving in a way that they should be and if Elder Scrolls is gonna carry over the same antiquated game design and the same stupid problems, then I'm not gonna be buying it, that's for sure.

 

[FunkMiller]

Totally inaccurate.

The chick behind the bar is way too attractive.

 

[Fess]

Totally inaccurate.

The chick behind the bar is way too attractive.

Heh true there is nobody like Claire in the whole Starfield Universe. The game has historically boring character design. It’s quite amazing tbh.

 

[Kurotri]

I think this gets at the main issue I have with it. It tries to be everything and in comparison to other games that try to be everything, it is one of the best. However, all games that try to be everything end up being mediocre at everything so there aren't actually that many that have tried because most devs are smarter than that. I prefer picking one or two things to be good at.

If I want a space shooter, Everspace 2 is right there.
If I want a systems and crafting simulator, there are like a hundred better.
If I want a good shooter, there are also a hundred that do it better and actually let me fight more than 10 guys per encounter.
If I want an RPG there are many with far better character development, implementation of customization, and writing/relationships.
If I want a character action game there are dozens with far more compelling characters and emotions.
If I want an exploration game, which is the best thing that this game does, I can still find ones that are smoother and more immersive without being distracted by all these other mediocre aspects and amazingly shitty inventory system and completely broken environmental hazard system.

This is a real icarus project from a dev team far too small in its scope of specializations to even be dreaming it. It is even mediocre at being a good Bethesda-style game, which is currently being better done by Zenimax with ESO. Honestly, if they can't meaningfully take the L from Fallout 76 and this and truly learn from it and either up their game (this will take money and a lot of hiring) or work within their actual means (like, say, Double Fine does) then they are not headed down a good path. ES6 absolutely cannot repeat these same mistakes yet again. That would be the final seal of irrelevance.

Imo we have already reached that point, as Fallout 4 wasn't received that well either. Nothing came close to Skyrim's reception and impact, and with F4, F76 and Starfield, I think it's difficult to expect ES6 to be great. Slowly but surely BGS have reached mediocrity and are outdone by everyone else.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Its a Bethesda game. I know, i know...its 2023 and blablabla, but if you've played their previous games you should've expected this. I certainly did after the first few hours in the game. Once I knew I was playing Fallout 4 in space with a million loading screens I dropped all expectations and managed to still play it despite all its issues. Let me just spare you the trouble, nothing in the game, in its 1000 planets will ever surprise or shock you(except the vanguard quest line which had a nice...lets say twist) and maybe the main quest. It wont get better, and nothing you'll ever do will feel fulfilling. Its a game you level up, maybe build your ship and just do the main faction quests and delete. Skyrim was the same, besides the main quest and the faction quests everything else was boring af. At least Fallout 3 and 4 had a sense of mystery throughout the entire exploration, you never knew what to expect but Starfield, has none of that, there is NOTHING fucked up, funny, super unique on any of the planets. Just rush the factions/main quests and move on to other games. Maybe come back in 3-4 years when modders may have significantly changed the game.

Kinda how I felt as well. I did the Vanguard faction quests early on and they were pretty great. If the rest of the quests hit that hard then this game would’ve been something amazing. Sadly Vanguard is the exception and the rest of the game is more typical Bethesda. Not terrible but there’s nothing that can really surprise or delight you and no choices that make an impact on the game world.


Also if we’re talking about bad writing, why the heck is so much of the story revealed through freaking audio logs and emails? And they’re obviously written in such a way that the player is the intended audience and it would sound ridiculous in context. Hardly unique to this game but it’s so lazy and game-y.

I found one piece of evidence during the Crimson Fleet quests that was this incriminating recording of 3 people very explicitly discussing their crime using their real names like “Don’t worry Gabriel Vera, you will get your share of that 500,000 credits we STOLE FROM GALBANK LAST WEEK just like we agreed to back when the 3 of us COMMITTED THIS CRIME TOGETHER!!”

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

Good guy Bethesda made other aspects of the game so bad that I couldn’t really pay attention to the bad writing.

 

[AV]

Amen. It's an intensely okay game. Blisteringly alright. Alarmingly fine.

 

[West Texas CEO]

Do studios still treat the guy as "persona non grata" because of the false accusations from that chick? Or have people finally come to their senses and started to give the guy work again?

I thought the allegations were either retracted or settled, but yeah, it looks like he's still been blacklisted by the industry.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Did he talk about the full story beginning to end though? I never saw a final review, only an impressions video, but I don't recall him talking about the main story overall.

He said the story gets really interesting halfway through and it’s best to play the main campaign unlike previous Bethesda games

I find it hard to imagine most of the side stuff being demonstrably better

 

[Topher]

He said the story gets really interesting halfway through abs it’s best to play the main campaign unlike previous Bethesda games

I find it hard to imagine most of the side stuff being demonstrably better

He's right. It does get interesting halfway through. For me, it went downhill from there though. The UC and Crimson Fleet faction quests were definitely better. Ryujin, perhaps, for those who were going stealth from the beginning. I wasn't so it was just a chore. Rangers was ok, not great. Better than the second half of the main story though. But then there is a ton of other stand alone missions such as the time the UC and the Rangers have to team up agains Spacers. That was great. So yeah, I'd say there is plenty that is demonstrably better than the main quest, imo.

 

[ANDS]

I found one piece of evidence during the Crimson Fleet quests that was this incriminating recording of 3 people very explicitly discussing their crime using their real names like “Don’t worry Gabriel Vera, you will get your share of that 500,000 credits we STOLE FROM GALBANK LAST WEEK just like we agreed to back when the 3 of us COMMITTED THIS CRIME TOGETHER!!”

My favorite was the logs for The Pilgrim all being numbered (from one to five or so, and literally titled "Pilgrim's Log X") because of course we're all morons and can't parse ourselves the chronological development of this critical characters views on "life" and "humanity."

I thought the allegations were either retracted or settled, but yeah, it looks like he's still been blacklisted by the industry.

Sadly, even if he made a return, he's already been labeled by the industry and no one is going to deal with that headache. After SF, Bethesda needs a refresh or at a minimum to take the reigns away from Emil and whatever core group he is working with. Look at that core that did FONV and see who among them you can bring back into the fold. I'd kill for anything in SF (or even FO4, which I find to be more engaging than SF despite it definitely having the Bethesda stagnation on it) that comes close to Vault 11 or "Return to Sender."

 

[Topher]

I thought the allegations were either retracted or settled, but yeah, it looks like he's still been blacklisted by the industry.

They retracted and had to pay him a "seven figure" amount of money. The industry won't ever acknowledge it as it goes against the "believe women" mantra that was chanted endlessly during the me too movement. Because if they acknowledge one or two women could possibly make false accusations then how many others who have been championed are also lying? This is not a question these people will ever ask.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

My favorite was the logs for The Pilgrim all being numbered (from one to five or so, and literally titled "Pilgrim's Log X") because of course we're all morons and can't parse ourselves the chronological development of this critical characters views on "life" and "humanity."

LOL not to mention the fact that he recorded each message on a different….whatever the hell those things are (digital voice recorder with 60 seconds capacity?) and left them all strewn about his hideout.

 

[Von Hugh]

The amount of hate this game is getting is just astounding.

 

[P:axMagellanic]

I don't believe for a second this was a 6 - 5 or even 3 year development. This was something rushed out in a year and a half of panic like Anthem was.

There's a mod that lets you fly around a solar system btw, the engine is fine - this is odd design choices that they couldn't make work somehow.

 

[West Texas CEO]

They retracted and had to pay him a "seven figure" amount of money. The industry won't ever acknowledge it as it goes agains the "believe women" mantra that was chanted endlessly during the me too movement. Because if they acknowledge one or two women could possible make false accusations then how many others who have been championed are also lying? This is not a question these people will ever ask.

Man, that's sad as fuck. At least he got some money, but still...

 

[hyperbertha]

This is an absolutely braindead take. If we're comparing Starfield and Morrowind they're not even of the same world. Morrowind's story does way more to create a compelling world and characters by far.

There is a range. Starfield - trash morrowind - mediocre. True that they are not in the same league. But I wouldn't be putting morrowind in the top 25 videogame story list.

 

[Buggy Loop]

I don't believe for a second this was a 6 - 5 or even 3 year development. This was something rushed out in a year and a half of panic like Anthem was.

"work" at home

 

[Fahdis]

Lol, EviLore wait till you play Woke Scrolls 6 in a few years. Wonder how the romancing options will be in that .

 

[SRTtoZ]

I’d go as far to say there’s almost no sexuality present in the game whatsoever. As rare as it is I did manage to find some in Neon, inside the Astral Lounge, but it wasn’t what I expected. When I arrived, all I could see were some dildo looking guys in women’s clothes dancing on an elevated platform. I simply turned around and left.

Honestly, what is the deal? Murder is fine, theft is fine, fraud is fine, selling drugs is fine… all these things are totally ok but when it comes to female sexuality… that’s where the line is drawn?

I mean… wtf is this supposed to be?

Jesus lol.

 

[StereoVsn]

I don't believe for a second this was a 6 - 5 or even 3 year development. This was something rushed out in a year and a half of panic like Anthem was.

There's a mod that lets you fly around a solar system btw, the engine is fine - this is odd design choices that they couldn't make work somehow.

Didn’t Todd say full on development only started in 2020. Throw in Covid on top of that and you get whatever state Starfield released in.

That said, even if it was in dev for 3 more years it would not help shit writing and quest setup and that terrible characterization.

 

[manlisten]

Enjoying the game but yeah, I have to agree with most of this. It's like you're traveling across the universe with the no-fun police as companions. The gameplay and random events are super fun but the story beats start to feel like a drag due to your companions and their moral compass.

 

[Last Hearth]

Hey, you weren’t kidding when you said every faction has a woman as leader. Just encountered the the outlaw “Shaw Gang”, and guess what, their leader is a woman.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I mean… wtf is this supposed to be?

Children story time?

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Children story time?

I guess at least they can’t have drag shows because there is no such thing as women’s clothing or women’s fashion.

 

[Sleepwalker]

I don't believe for a second this was a 6 - 5 or even 3 year development. This was something rushed out in a year and a half of panic like Anthem was.

There's a mod that lets you fly around a solar system btw, the engine is fine - this is odd design choices that they couldn't make work somehow.

The real reason you can't fly to planets is not because it was an engine or technological problem (it never was) it's because they couldn't be arsed to actually model the planets so they didn't want people flying into JPEGs.

Man, that's sad as fuck. At least he got some money, but still...

Wanna make it sadder? Those assholes who ruined his career most likely don't have the money to pay him anyway.

 

[killatopak]

I don't believe for a second this was a 6 - 5 or even 3 year development. This was something rushed out in a year and a half of panic like Anthem was.

There's a mod that lets you fly around a solar system btw, the engine is fine - this is odd design choices that they couldn't make work somehow.

That’s just factually wrong. The game was set to release last year with actual gameplay trailer. You’ll tell me that was made up in half a year? Including the engine update?