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Starfield is one of the worst written RPGs of all time

Braag

Member
Their games have always had fairly simple and run of the mill type stories. As an example, the world and lore of The Elder Scrolls is great but the stories Bethesda tell in that world is same old "prophecy of chosen one vanquishing the great evil".
It's almost as if they are afraid of more complex stories and morally ambiguous characters.
 
Noticed this already from the demo.

When I finished the demo I was like ”aight yeah so this is gonna be all about the combat and fishing”
? There was a demo?
Never mind. Seen u already replied to this question and idk how to remove this
 
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Gp1

Member
I'm 30 or so hours in and more and more i'm convinced that this game is nothing more than a glorified techdemo of the new engine for the next Fallout/TES.

A game about space and planetary exploration that tries to hinder you from explore on every possible opportunity.
The space exploration is basically non existent as there is no difference between using the so called Starmap and choosing your destination from list of planet/locations, the ship gameplay is just a series of small events as you never navigate with the ship per se, the writing is exactly as Evilore said (plain is the right word), the shooting mechanics are serviceable at best, the skill tree is dull and obnoxious, the UI is one of the worst ones that i can remember in a triple A game, the already famous "Bethesda Cinematography Filter" is back. And the list goes on and on...

Cyberpunk 2077 1.0 swallows this game in every single aspect. Trying to enjoy this script after playing Baldur's Gate 3 is a hard task.

The only thing that i really enjoyed was that at least the main characters are well modelled (finally) and the Ship Builder, which is a copy of games like Ultimate Dreadnoughts. Yes Bethesda, we know...
But hey! You can construct a ship just to see it on the take off/landing cutscenes or on some random uninteresting encounter.

And don't you dare to marry Sarah. Every single one of her dialogues will become one of the cringiest romance interactions that i ever saw in a game. Even worse than when she was just an insecure Navy's over achiever star captain.

Right now i'm basically rushing through the main story because i saw that maybe, just maybe, the "new game" has some interest twist not seen in other games of this type. And probably by that time that i get there, i may see some interesting mods being developed.
 
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Agreed. Not only is it badly written, it’s just badly designed and shows that Bethesda haven’t grown as a creative outlet in over 10 years. I massively preferred everything before it.

Exploration is painfully dull (fast travel here, there and everywhere), gunplay is marred by bullet sponge enemies (otherwise it’s not bad), quests are mostly fetching things and the story is shit.
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
I completely agree tbh. Like you have said the game can be fun and engaging and I am completely in that camp, I have and am enjoying my time with it massively but I have had to accept this sterile universe of characters.

There is no edge to any of these characters, there's no real feeling of real human interaction and that is a big flaw. Its a very fun game for me but misses on the points you have mentioned which is huge for a game that os supposed to deliver this stuff.

I have fully romance Sarah and I mentioned in another thread. The flirt options now that I am ready to marry her are vomit inducing. 🤢its not real and need to be completely re written.
 
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Bo_Hazem

Banned
Bou4Aty.png

Bias at its finest.
Oh No What GIF by Identity
 

Hudo

Member
i'm convinced that this game is nothing more than a glorified techdemo of the new engine for the next Fallout/TES.
I fucking hope not because the tech behind this game is what actively holds it back. There's not seamless transition from space to anywhere on a planet. There's no seamlessness on a planet, there's no seamlessness whatsoever. Space travel doesn't exist outside of a map screen, AI still can't navigate somewhat complex environments and still can't deal with verticality. Companion reactions and AI is something you can decipher within an hour of playtime; there's nothing reactive there. For a game that wants to simulate systemic worlds, the reactivity and player-feedback is shallow like a puddle.

And how fucking disingenuous was Todd's bullshit he said in his directs, he kept going on and on about how one of the core pillars of the game was supposed to be "exploration". Hell, the main organization you join up in that game is about explorers. And you can't explore jack shit in the game. Not with all these limitations.

If this is the technical base for TES6, they should just quit making games, sorry. And I have been a "Creation Engine" apologizer for the longest time. But Starfield clearly showed that Bethesda either can't update their tech stack or they don't want to.
 
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Bo_Hazem

Banned
Good writing in an RPG means different things to different people. You might appreciate meaningful choices. You might appreciate deep conversations with realistic characters. You might appreciate an epic adventure full of memorable twists and turns. You might appreciate years spent on developing the worldbuilding for an interesting universe full of diverse characters, races, species, backgrounds, and ideas.

Well, Starfield fails at RPG writing on every level. This doesn’t mean it’s a worthless failure of a game overall. The core mechanics of exploring, shooting, and looting can hold your attention, just as they may have in Bethesda’s previous open world RPGs. But at every turn the writing slaps you in the face.

Let’s start with the companions. Dear god. All of them are Lawful Good wet blankets who criticize you every roughly 15 seconds. Inventory over the minuscule weight limit? “Have you considered NOT picking up everything you can find?” every time you pick up an item. Stealing something, including from villains? “Wow, I didn’t realize I was hanging out with a CRIMINAL” every time you pick up an item. Get into a fight that you could have conceivably avoided via dialogue options? They will sometimes leave your party and brand you irredeemable, even if the only way to avoid the enemies attacking you was through a persuasion check that you failed, leaving you with no choice but to defend yourself. You’ll still be met with the companion leaving your party and refusing to talk to you. Unless every step you take is within their exacting moral expectations you will be reprimanded or dumped.

There are also story beats with bizarre turns. During one of the main faction quests, you are given one of your few pseudo-consequential player choices. Basically, you can choose a risky scientific option that unleashes genetically engineered microbes onto humanity to solve the problem, or a less risky naturalistic option where you breed an animal that will take care of the problem. If you choose the sensible naturalistic option with what is essentially a guaranteed good outcome based on the evidence presented to you, your companions will condemn you as a mouth-breathing moron. If you choose the risky scientific option that explicitly has a chance of wiping out humanity by mutating in unknown ways, your companions will laud you for “Trusting the Science" (actual quote), in what is a bizarre, warped take on recent events political messaging, considering how risky the in-game choice is.

Not only that, but if you have a companion in your party, good luck picking any of the rare Han Solo style dialogue options. In a mission where Andreja is your forced companion, you dock with a ship with the intention of stealing an item from the owner. This a morally gray mission where you’re expected to con the owner, burglarize him, or kill him in order to retrieve the item. When you enter the ship, you’re met with one of the owner’s employees, and he asks you why you’re there. You only have two dialogue options: one, be an imbecile and tell him exactly why you’re there, or two, you can reply facetiously that you heard there was a big party on the ship and you’re here to party. If you say the latter, Andreja, who is literally there to help you steal the item by any means necessary, will respond by Disliking your comment and interjecting flatly that she “has no interest in partying.”

It's a problem endemic to all the characters in Starfield. It was marketed as a Han Solo simulator, but you are constantly badgered and browbeaten by catty, humorless women for anything you do. I won’t dwell too much on the ideological choices made to satisfy the current year climate but suffice to say that roughly 90% of the leaders in Starfield are women. And they are one-dimensional, deeply unlikeable charisma black holes who will talk to you with utter contempt most of the time. Of the remaining 10%, most of the men are presented as incompetent or evil. It’s a galaxy ruled by Karens. And the Karens are also your party members and love interests. I have never experienced a more unlikeable cast of characters in an RPG.

Let’s also consider the dreaded romance options. The first romanceable companion you encounter is Sarah. Sarah is a middle-aged ex-military leader who runs the organization you join. She’s quick to criticize you and expects you to do the conventional and lawful thing at all times. If you romance her, by choosing options like Trusting the Science and by praising her awkwardly at every opportunity in a way that would be creepy and weird to any actual human being, she will eventually begin to trust you and open up. Now, by opening up I mean she will reveal herself to be a giant ball of insecure, wallowing baggage that you are expected to comfort with dialogue options that reduce her to the emotional maturity of a small child. “Wow, you’re so strong, Sarah! Good job staving off that nervous breakdown over nothing, Sarah!” Then, inexplicably, you will end these conversations about her baggage with a “Flirt” option if you want to pursue her romantically. She will rebuff your advances awkwardly and end the conversation every time. Do this on around a dozen separate occasions, with no actual romance or flirtation between you two, only rejections at the end of your impromptu therapy sessions, and she will trust you enough to take you on her loyalty mission, which is literally to confront her emotional baggage. Complete that and she will decide that she can get involved with you romantically. Without any intimate moments, explicitly or implicitly, she will then decide that she has fallen in love with you and want to get married. Handle her baggage for her --> let’s get married. That’s how it works for humans, right? Right?

I’m genuinely horrified by the writing in this game, and I pity the people who conjured up these character interactions. They must live some of the dullest and most dysfunctional lives imaginable.

Starfield displays time and time again, without fail, that it fundamentally lacks understanding of the human condition. You land on worlds with the premise of a dystopian cyberpunk society where hard drugs are legal and everything is available for a price. When you arrive, though, all you’ll find is some tepid fully clothed dancing at a bland nightclub and a few people talking about how cu-raaazy everything is. It’s a game unwilling to explore humanity’s faults and genuine human drama on any level. At the futuristic fashionista clothing stores your only options are literally unisex tarps. Everyone is of varied ethnicity but there is no ethnic culture whatsoever. Women are purely masculine, leaving no one left to be feminine. This is not a demand for T&A by any means. In the real world, men and women don’t wear tarps and talk in monotone at a safe distance, defined purely by their profession. Life is messy and dramatic, desires and egos clash, stars rise and fall, people love and lust and hate and trust and betray. But not in Starfield, a corporate-sanitized ideological bog too afraid to include one iota of humanity in its storytelling.

RPGs are doing so much more elsewhere, from Baldur's Gate 3 to Cyberpunk 2077, but even looking back at Bethesda's own games, this one is a step backwards. The Elder Scrolls games incorporate different ethnic backgrounds and intense religious beliefs, ugly racial prejudice and morally gray deities. Starfield reeks of design by committee resulting in a product too afraid to take any storytelling risks. Nothing can ever be well-written when it is this extraordinarily conformist and risk-averse, particularly when the expectations for political correctness are so narrow in 2023.

You can do better.

This is such a fine article with challenging vocabulary to me. I've talked before about why NeoGAF doesn't have review front for games on Meta/Open-critic? Newly-established sites have their say already.

This will help the site even more.
 
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Banjo64

cumsessed
Poor dialogue kills any subsequent play throughs of TES V for me. I still consider the game to be one of the crowning achievements in gaming for its time, but by 2023 standards it’s really bad.

Each time I reach Balgruuf in Whiterun it hits me like a brick wall, and I uninstall.

The game is saved by its high fantasy setting, however that’s not enough.
 

HL3.exe

Banned
Completely agree, finished all the faction quests but I actually started to skip dialogue. The writing and characterisations are so boring and unimaginative.

If you can still follow the the setups and payoff's while skipping most of the dialogue, you know the writing is pretty uninspired.
 
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IDKFA

I am Become Bilbo Baggins
Agreed.

There are lots of things I like about Starfield. I love the combat, ship building and ship combat. Everything else is meh.

When I first played it I thought it was amazing, but the writing and lack of freedom spoiled the experience very quickly. I'm not even sure I'll finish it and glad it came with my Gamepass sub.
 

Fess

Member
I don't think you'd get banned, dude!
lol okay then

First. There is literally no way what so ever to create or meet a woman in this game with bigger bust than like C cups without it being a fat person. The body morph sliders are completely broken. Hour glass figure don’t exist in this world. Go for a thin waist and the ass gets flatter than on some marathon runner. Literally the biologically preferred body type with wide hips don’t exist. Only if it’s a fat person. No pear shapes. No wide hips and thin waist. Can’t even have a round bigger butt or thicker thighs, and this is in a game made in 2023 when everybody including their grandmas are working out doing a million squats per day specifically to build that type of body. Don’t know if it’s some western politically correct sexualization or objectification protest or whatever it is but it’s quite possibly the most boring character design tool ever and since they use the same tool for all characters it means the whole universe is boring. Can’t believe nobody on the team of 500 or whatever devs hasn’t noticed it.

Secondly. There is no clothes anywhere in this game that in any way trigger anyone to be turned on. Not even in the night club. It’s like some office space unisex casual friday every day in the whole universe at the same time. They even messed up Andreja’s fairly nice black default clothes where you can get hints of some nice legs hiding underneath and placed some wrinkle on the skirt thing on the front so it looks like she’s sporting a hard-on if you look at her from the side. 🤦‍♂️

There is more but I need breakfast
 
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FunkMiller

Member
It’s a narrative written by people who are terrified to write a narrative.

It’s a story designed to offend no one. Therefore it’s a story that excites no one.

It’s a child’s vision of what an interstellar human civilisation would be like.

It’s story telling at the point of lowest common denominator, because they don’t want people on Twitter being nasty about it.

It’s a nice, safe, easy to digest McDonalds hamburger.

It’s corporate America’s version of what a story should be.

It’s ChatGPT’s idea of what a story should be.

It’s a game I dropped after 20 hours for the much better Lies Of P.
 
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T4keD0wN

Member
There are also story beats with bizarre turns. During one of the main faction quests, you are given one of your few pseudo-consequential player choices. Basically, you can choose a risky scientific option that unleashes genetically engineered microbes onto humanity to solve the problem, or a less risky naturalistic option where you breed an animal that will take care of the problem. If you choose the sensible naturalistic option with what is essentially a guaranteed good outcome based on the evidence presented to you, your companions will condemn you as a mouth-breathing moron. If you choose the risky scientific option that explicitly has a chance of wiping out humanity by mutating in unknown ways, your companions will laud you for “Trusting the Science" (actual quote), in what is a bizarre, warped take on recent events political messaging, considering how risky the in-game choice is.
This has angered me the most about the game so far. In addition to that, those enemies are fun to fight. Why would I pick the option that is seemingly supposed to remove them from the game pretty much instantly? This quest line was great, but the ending and the comments have just completely ruined it for me , my only concern with those animals was that they will turn on you and be an even bigger threat, which was soon addressed and said to not happen.
Let’s also consider the dreaded romance options. The first romanceable companion you encounter is Sarah.
I liked Sarah's missions and backstory a lot, but those romance options were absolutely cursed. This has to be the first game I've encountered that is improved by playing the lone wolf road. They also just can't shut up and constantly talk over other NPCs and when you grav jump. I am getting a "shut up" mod once it exists.
And how fucking disingenuous was Todd's bullshit he said in his directs, he kept going on and on about how one of the core pillars of the game was supposed to be "exploration". Hell, the main organization you join up in that game is about explorers. And you can't explore jack shit in the game. Not with all these limitations.
There is a mission board in the lodge dedicated to exploration missions, but the exploration itself is barebones as hell, the enviromental hazards system is so unfinished it might as well not exist, there is no refueling, no reason to build outposts to gather minerals because they are so easy and cheap to get in the generic stores. At least there are some good bones for the modders to heavily expand and improve on i guess.
 

Sybrix

Gold Member
The thing with Bethesda RPGs is the stories have never been that good, i played Skyrim for 300+ hours but i never completed the main quest line.

Bethesda RPGs are about world exploring, Starfield is a great game but there are a lot of issues that to me make Skyrim still their best game.
 

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Celebrate In Love GIF by Max


Agree 100% I have never seen worse. The only thing I have to add is how chaotic they are in their frame of mind. They will jump topics, emotions, and dispositions instantaneously, coming off completely like the lifeless procedural automatons that they are. Its value is as an exploration shooter, although the latter is rather limtied as it seems you only ever fight 10 guys at a time.
 
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Ceadeus

Member
That was a solid read. I like Evilore writting and humor and wish there was more on Neogaf!

With that said, I felt like I was being forced to have one dimension behavior in order to please my companion. Which felt unnatural and unsatisfying.

I'll need to play more but for now I don't think I'll be role playing to much Starfield lol.
 
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Mozzarella

Member
I was going to play Starfield at day 1 but then i broke my arm at release day and i didnt play it, still cant.
I was very hyped for it, maybe it turning out underwhelming compared to its hype was good in my case? lol.
Anyway im writing this with one hand and i've become lazy for lengthy posts, but Emil has always been a mediocre writer, so i guess its not a surprise, worst written i doubt that but i can totally see it being poorly written.
I will wait for a complete edition to buy, by that time there will be more mods :goog_horns:
 
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GymWolf

Member
lol okay then


Secondly. There is no clothes anywhere in this game that in any way trigger anyone to be turned on. Not even in the night club. It’s like some office space unisex casual friday every day in the whole universe at the same time. They even messed up Andreja’s fairly nice black default clothes where you can get hints of some nice legs hiding underneath and placed some wrinkle on the skirt thing on the front so it looks like she’s sporting a hard-on if you look at her from the side. 🤦‍♂️

There is more but I need breakfast
Yep, i was more aroused the last time i visited an enclosed convent, some of those barely visible ankles were pretty hot, not gonna lie.
 

KungFucius

King Snowflake
Both choices for the Terramorphs are risky and ethically questionable. The beast way unleashes an apex predator that can kill and eat the things that are destroying civilizations. But they are edible so I guess you are just unleashing a source of steak that could eat people when the terramorphs are all dead. I chose that and was annoyed by the reactions too because both choices are risky and fucked up. I would guess that the biological approach is less risky because in 300 years or so they are likely able to quickly develop something that will kill it. The structure of DNA not known while some people today were alive. And the real risk that a biological agent jumps species and becomes a threat is probably less than the risk that a giant predator turns to humans when its food source is depleted. They should have had a nanobot solution or something like that rather than 2 poorly analyzed options. They also gave no numbers to guide the user. What is the time and risk level? They expect you to understand how the game will react when risk is given as more risky vs less risky and time is given as shorter vs longer. FFS it is supposed to be a decision that impacts dozens of planets and presumably many billions of people. This is overly simplified bullshit that makes no fucking sense. FFS Bethesda is part of a big company, go consult with the business part of the company that does risk analysis to frame the issue in a way that makes sense to people with brains.
 

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Don’t know if it’s some western politically correct sexualization or objectification protest or whatever
You can rest 100% assured that this is the case. It is completely intentional. They are so afraid of something that might sexually intimidate or shame a woman in her body image or lead a man to view a woman sexually (because that might maybe become problematic somehow) that they have become more sex-negative than victorian puitans. They are literally denying their humanity for their politics. It is ludicrous, shameful, and sad.
 
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anthraticus

Banned
So, basically good RPG’s now have to come from outside the US cuz it’s just lost at this point. Sad.
AAA is fucking terrible now and the anglosphere is leading the charge. The good games almost always come from Eastern Europe now with some Japanese stuff sprinkled around. Everything that requires more than 10-15 developers and a large publisher is fucking derivative trash and often filled with decisions made by people who have zero respect towards the legacy of the format and probably haven't even played that many games to begin with. The market feels more polarized than ever.
 
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