Support NeoGAF

[MoonsaultSlayer]

Yeah, I never want to say anyone is doing it wrong, but you're doing it wrong. There were no vehicles? Build your own, you always have enough rift when you spawn.

So that's the rule of the game? Spawn and acquire a vehicle to make collecting rift energy easier? No creative freedom to play how I want despite the wide openness of the game's design? No one else sees a fault here?

No one has provided a valid reason for why my idea wouldn't work. Tell me why someone would build a fortress at the outskirts of the map, out of the way, when the enemy can bypass you and create there own base inside of your home base? What makes anything outside of home base and the direct line to the flag vital to the mission? Nothing.

THAT is why there needs to be spawn/base grids. Because now your fighting for land and strategic battle positions.

That'd be the perfect implementation of BnB. You're still building your own bases within larger spawn zones but now the area you defend/overtake MEANS something. Do you fortify the center? Do you defend at the border of an adjacent zone where your enemies are hunkered down?

Besides stubbornness, how does this not play to game's strong points and address the weak points? To work it into the game's lore, each of these zones are rich rift energy sources making it vital to takeover as it provides added resources for your team.

I'm laughing at how perfect this is and you guys don't see it. Grrrr.

 

[Dibbz]

I dont like the idea of pre determined spawn outposts because every game would turn into, which side can capture them the quickest. the way it is now you have to have enough rift to build defenses and a spawn to stand a chance at keeping it.

BTW if you build a spawn and it gets destroyed quick find a better place to put it. Also another tip is to build some defenses before you get a spawn in there rather than the other way round.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

I dont like the idea of pre determined spawn outposts because every game would turn into, which side can capture them the quickest. the way it is now you have to have enough rift to build defenses and a spawn to stand a chance at keeping it.

BTW if you build a spawn and it gets destroyed quick find a better place to put it. Also another tip is to build some defenses before you get a spawn in there rather than the other way round.

That's awesome on paper and in theory but it doesn't and won't work in practice with the general public.

What reason is there to waste resources on a base in the middle of nowhere other than having a forward base? Why is it needed if I can just drop a vehicle at the press of a button anywhere?

It won't always be about the quickest. Some players may opt for a central base and fortify it with everything they can. Some may travel to the closest base to the enemy's and build there. Any of those scenarios beats what happens in the current form.

Most importantly, it makes sense and adds all the gamey stuff needed to be fun. Get a base, gain access to rift energy. Need rift energy? Attack and take over a base.

How is enticing players to leave and take over bases a bad idea?

 

[Seventy_X_Seven]

So that's the rule of the game? Spawn and acquire a vehicle to make collecting rift energy easier? No creative freedom to play how I want despite the wide openness of the game's design? No one else sees a fault here?

I'm not saying there's some "rule" of the game. All I'm saying is if you're going to complain about huffing and puffing around on foot searching for barrels, which you were, you should probably acquire yourself a vehicle. I'm not saying anything else about your idea.

That's awesome on paper and in theory but it doesn't and won't work in practice with the general public.

Huh, it's been working really well for me. Don't be too quick to make assumptions. And what the guy suggested about building up a ton of defenses and then dropping the spawn beacon is a really good tactic, since the enemy usually never notices anything you do until the beacon is set.

I'm all for enticing the players to leave the spawn zone, but having predetermined bases is not the way to do it, IMO. The problem isn't a lack of incentives to push forward, it's an overdose of incentives to stay back. Why do auto turrets cost only 2 rift? With the crazy fast right gathering inside the home base you'll easily be dropping them frequently. In fact, at such a rate that you'll get several "Builder" badges at the end giving you even more experience and likely a free kill whenever someone tries to grab a flag. Yes there should be some more incentives to move forward, but one step at a time. Let's first address why players insist on staying in the home base in the first place.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

7X7 is right.

LBI completely. Yoko'd the dynamic of Rift Gathering and leaving the base with StarWelfare.

There would have been no Old West gold rush if you could find gold everywhere.

rift collection for doing NOTHING in the home base needs to be nerfed. It just encourages camping.

If you want to gather rift faster you need to:

- go shoot rift barrels.
- go shoot people.
- go shoot enemy fortifications.

I'm sick of the StarWelfare teams camping all day because now rift gathers stupid easy at home base.

Fix this shit LBI!

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

7X7 is right.

LBI completely. Yoko'd the dynamic of Rift Gathering and leaving the base with StarWelfare.

There would have been no Old West gold rush if you could find gold everywhere.

rift collection for doing NOTHING in the home base needs to be nerfed. It just encourages camping.

If you want to gather rift faster you need to:

- go capture a zone.
- go shoot rift barrels.
- go shoot people.
- go shoot enemy fortifications and take over their zones.

I'm sick of the StarWelfare teams camping all day because now rift gathers stupid easy at home base.

Fix this shit LBI!

Fixed =P.

Let me ask you guys this: If it did get changed to my idea, would that ruin the game for you? Why?

 

[weekend_warrior]

Fixed =P.

Let me ask you guys this: If it did get changed to my idea, would that ruin the game for you? Why?

I just don't see how having predetermined base locations with only specific vehicles available in each location makes any sense. The current system is terrible, I agree, on the large map it's near impossible to get viable outposts up with enough structures that someone might want to spawn there. But it should be improved while staying within the "build anything, anywhere" mantra.

> Lower rift gathering at home base

> Rift/resource rich areas around the map (ie areas with barrels and weapons that encourage outpost building but don't require it.)

> Improved base building- like combo beacon/weapon depot/automated sentry, larger spawn area from beacon, stronger structures, etc.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

I just don't see how having predetermined base locations with only specific vehicles available in each location makes any sense. The current system is terrible, I agree, on the large map it's near impossible to get viable outposts up with enough structures that someone might want to spawn there. But it should be improved while staying within the "build anything, anywhere" mantra.

> Lower rift gathering at home base

> Rift/resource rich areas around the map (ie areas with barrels and weapons that encourage outpost building but don't require it.)

> Improved base building- like combo beacon/weapon depot/automated sentry, larger spawn area from beacon, stronger structures, etc.

My specific vehicle idea is no longer part of my equation. Just the zones part.

But I like the idea of the rich rift energy pockets scattered. What if they had more of those mining devices seen at home base spread throughout the map and people can choose to build a base around it as you said? Perhaps they need to be activated and can potentially win dry to prevent camping? Just ideas.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

Ok so how do we matter of factly get these things to LBI's attention? I checked out the official forums and laughed at the over abundance of stuff that people want.

I'm willing to compromise my idea to actually have worthy resources and weapons placed all around the map that makes smart players want to occupy and defend.

I still feel spawning in big zones is the better concept and forces creative play and strategic planning. *grumble grumble*

 

[weekend_warrior]

My specific vehicle idea is no longer part of my equation. Just the zones part.

But I like the idea of the rich rift energy pockets scattered. What if they had more of those mining devices seen at home base spread throughout the map and people can choose to build a base around it as you said? Perhaps they need to be activated and can potentially win dry to prevent camping? Just ideas.

Yeah, something like that. Areas like in StarCraft that are clearly designed to be base expansions, where it only takes 1 or 2 people to build a legitimate functioning outpost. You'll get punished for turtling because the other team will be generating significantly more rift.

Ok so how do we matter of factly get these things to LBI's attention? I checked out the official forums and laughed at the over abundance of stuff that people want.

I'm willing to compromise my idea to actually have worthy resources and weapons placed all around the map that makes smart players want to occupy and defend.

I still feel spawning in big zones is the better concept and forces creative play and strategic planning. *grumble grumble*

Post in the officially forums and pray the devs realize what needs to be fixed. We can't break into Dylan Jobe's house and go "LOOK AT THESE IDEAS, THESE ARE GREAT IDEAS!!" The devs either get it or they don't, and if they don't that's a shame, because there's a great to be had here, if they can get the balance right.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

I really want to enjoy the shit out of this game, and that potential is there, but without incentives to do anything other than "you can" hurts it for me.

I guess I don't need Dylan Jobe's address anymore... I kid I kid.

 

[The Lamp]

There needs to be something that encourages people to build outside the base....and I think there needs to be an easy way to see where nearby hawk pads/jetpack spawns/etc. are so that people don't accidentally build too many of them too nearby (maybe even say "No! You can't build that here because there's already one closeby!)

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

There needs to be something that encourages people to build outside the base....and I think there needs to be an easy way to see where nearby hawk pads/jetpack spawns/etc. are so that people don't accidentally build too many of them too nearby (maybe even say "No! You can't build that here because there's already one closeby!)

Nice. Or maybe a floating icon at the edge of the map indicating the direction of the nearest launch pads/garages/etc. This would prompt the player to hit select to expand the map and see just how close it is.

 

[TrAcEr_x90]

Are they gonna include a mode without the base building thing?

 

[Liamario]

Just played some of it there. Haven't played it in a while. They've improved the framerate and the game looks great as a result.
The servers were unfortunately quite barren, which doesn't bode well for the game's success.

I was playing CTF, but I didn't find any of the new vehicles. What am I doing wrong?

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

I just realized there's going to be a zones mode. The answer to my woes? Hopefully it works fairly close to my idea.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

Just played some of it there. Haven't played it in a while. They've improved the framerate and the game looks great as a result.
The servers were unfortunately quite barren, which doesn't bode well for the game's success.

I was playing CTF, but I didn't find any of the new vehicles. What am I doing wrong?

I answered someone else's same question back a page. There are different vehicle loadouts to look out for when creating or searching for a match. You'll notice such descriptions as "strategic triad", "blitz classic", "bruiser triad" or varying combinations of those and more descriptors which somehow tell you what kinds of vehicles and pre-made structures will be available in that match.

 

[2real4tv]

I am hating the fact that you can't hover, any chances they are bring that back?

 

[Loudninja]

I am hating the fact that you can't hover, any chances they are bring that back?

Nope it was a very cheap tactic in Warhawk.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

There needs to be something that encourages people to build outside the base....

Nerf the rift gathering from camping in the spawn.

SIMPLE.

It gathers too fast in 1.3 and you spawn with three rift already.

The incentive to leave the base previously was to gather rift, but morons cried about it and moron development team listened. >:|

I am hating the fact that you can't hover, any chances they are bring that back?

Nope.

It broke Warhawk and I don't think Lightbox wants another broke ass game with one vehicle dominating all day for free.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

A combination of weekend_warrior's and my idea would add incentive to leave. Make automatic rift collecting slower, but it speeds up the more resource pools you defend and spawn near.

Played warhawk last night and the second match was just overwhelming with hawks hovering around. Played starhawk after and had some fun even if I did wish for some changes.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

I want to point out a positive of Starhawk. Last night, while flying across Dust, I saw two tanks (my team) parked ahead of me to the right in the middle of the desert firing off into the distance to my left. I swooped left to see at what and noticed all the action.

What made it great was it felt like a scripted event.

 

[GodofWine]

It broke Warhawk and I don't think Lightbox wants another broke ass game with one vehicle dominating all day for free.

Agreed completely, hovering gave bad pilots (me) the ability to wreck shit...until a good pilot came along and killed the bad one (me).

Hovering let good pilots dominate.

I just realized there's going to be a zones mode. The answer to my woes? Hopefully it works fairly close to my idea.

Zones is probably going to be THE mode to play...shame it wasn't in the beta.

Are they gonna include a mode without the base building thing?

There will be "blitz" mode, where there are pre made home bases, basically encouraging people to go forth...and actually do stuff related to winning.


Despite what flaws it has as a game...Im totally enjoying the hell out of it...for the life of me I cannot figure out why I'd play COD over this...the scale, the free will to do stuff, the chaos and laughs...this game will sell fine I think.

My irl friends are sold (so long as the party system works, we feel burnt by BF3's debacle)

 

[Dibbz]

I just don't get some of you guys, CTF is always about defending your base and stealing the enemies flag. I'd rather have my team defend than go out and look for kills and not defend.

 

[weekend_warrior]

Me and The Take Out Bandit went a combined 60-5 in a devastating base rape on Dust. I think he was in a hawk and I was in a tank. Poor team.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

Me and The Take Out Bandit went a combined 60-5 in a devastating base rape on Dust. I think he was in a hawk and I was in a tank. Poor team.

I'd almost feel bad for them. . .

Normally it's me on the other team. D:

 

[tch]

So that's the rule of the game? Spawn and acquire a vehicle to make collecting rift energy easier? No creative freedom to play how I want despite the wide openness of the game's design? No one else sees a fault here?

No one has provided a valid reason for why my idea wouldn't work. Tell me why someone would build a fortress at the outskirts of the map, out of the way, when the enemy can bypass you and create there own base inside of your home base? What makes anything outside of home base and the direct line to the flag vital to the mission? Nothing.

THAT is why there needs to be spawn/base grids. Because now your fighting for land and strategic battle positions.

That'd be the perfect implementation of BnB. You're still building your own bases within larger spawn zones but now the area you defend/overtake MEANS something. Do you fortify the center? Do you defend at the border of an adjacent zone where your enemies are hunkered down?

Besides stubbornness, how does this not play to game's strong points and address the weak points? To work it into the game's lore, each of these zones are rich rift energy sources making it vital to takeover as it provides added resources for your team.

I'm laughing at how perfect this is and you guys don't see it. Grrrr.

Hey man, I love this idea. It would perfectly solve the issues of expansion and territory.

The capture points could be like the flag posts in warhawk except be smaller rift mines

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

I'd almost feel bad for them. . .

Normally it's me on the other team. D:

I like how you say that (about my name) after I've changed my tune a bit.

Your post almost like just because you're good at it means it's good. Ha, what a joke.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

Hey man, I love this idea. It would perfectly solve the issues of expansion and territory.

The capture points could be like the flag posts in warhawk except be smaller rift mines

But didn't you know? This game wouldn't be the same if you were forced to play with some minor limitations that promote strategy and team planning. If you can't drop a convenient vehicle anywhere you want whenever, then this game will be no different than anything else out there.

But then we can brag about how awesome we do against noobs in a flawed beta and act like it was all skill and not people getting used to the game or its issues.

 

[Shiloa]

When you say grids, do you mean like Z?

 

[TheSeks]

I like how you say that (about my name) after I've changed my tune a bit.

Your post almost like just because you're good at it means it's good. Ha, what a joke.

Except TTOB complains about Warhawks and shit like that in the game. He complained ENDLESSLY about the melee in the closed beta.

Your idea isn't bad, but it breaks what makes Starhawk different. And that's why it's a bad idea for this game.

 

[AgentOtaku]

There will be "blitz" mode, where there are pre made home bases, basically encouraging people to go forth...and actually do stuff related to winning.


Despite what flaws it has as a game...Im totally enjoying the hell out of it...for the life of me I cannot figure out why I'd play COD over this...the scale, the free will to do stuff, the chaos and laughs...this game will sell fine I think.

My irl friends are sold (so long as the party system works, we feel burnt by BF3's debacle)

VERY glad to hear. I played the beta when it was PS+ months back and couldn't get into it AT ALL

Just this big wave of "What's the point?" washing over me everytime I booted it up =/

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

Except TTOB complains about Warhawks and shit like that in the game. He complained ENDLESSLY about the melee in the closed beta.

Your idea isn't bad, but it breaks what makes Starhawk different. And that's why it's a bad idea for this game.

But you still BnB just like now, but in limited zones to prevent convenient/wasteful building. It makes sense and entices people to leave the base to take over more zones to be able to build and fortify. It'll still be a very different game from anything else on the market.

The game is all about acquiring rift energy. So it fits to have to secure resources in order to ensure your team's success. So whether it's my zone idea or W_W's scattered resource pockets to optionally defend, the game would benefit from sticking to a key component of its lore. The openness and randomness gives tons of freedom that some of you will miss, but it reeks of bad map/battle design.

 

[Jme]

Am I the only one that feels this would benefit having at least some sort of optional tutorial thing? It just throws you in there with nothing, and having never played Warhawk I pretty much have no idea what I'm doing and I die before I get a chance to figure anything out. I played like 5 matches and got 1 kill I think. :/

 

[AgentOtaku]

Am I the only one that feels this would benefit having at least some sort of optional tutorial thing? It just throws you in there with nothing, and having never played Warhawk I pretty much have no idea what I'm doing and I die before I get a chance to figure anything out. I played like 5 matches and got 1 kill I think. :/

Hopefully the final retail does (assuming Single-player guides you) cause yeah, it's like they didn't learn anything between Warhawk and now

 

[TheSeks]

Am I the only one that feels this would benefit having at least some sort of optional tutorial thing? It just throws you in there with nothing, and having never played Warhawk I pretty much have no idea what I'm doing and I die before I get a chance to figure anything out. I played like 5 matches and got 1 kill I think. :/

It's a beta. It won't have a tutorial.

 

[weekend_warrior]

Am I the only one that feels this would benefit having at least some sort of optional tutorial thing? It just throws you in there with nothing, and having never played Warhawk I pretty much have no idea what I'm doing and I die before I get a chance to figure anything out. I played like 5 matches and got 1 kill I think. :/

The final game will have SP that will probably have some tutorial missions. If you're getting your ass kicked a lot then create your own room and play by yourself to get a hang of the controls, then join a low player count game (2-3 players) until you get the hang of things.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

It's a shame the fake beta model has conditioned the gaming public into unfairly judging real beta product. :|

This game will have a full single player mode which ought to teach players something about how to play the game when the time comes to go online. Something Warhawk didn't have.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

It's a shame the fake beta model has conditioned the gaming public into unfairly judging real beta product. :|

This game will have a full single player mode which ought to teach players something about how to play the game when the time comes to go online. Something Warhawk didn't have.

I'm really looking forward to the SP. At first I was a bit underwhelmed by the idea of it being merely a practice mode for the MP. But in a way, it'll be a less random and BSful MP-like mode to satiate my MPish gameplay needs.

I mean that about all MP games, not just Starhawk. I've always just wanted unscripted, action packed gameplay in Warhawk without relying on servers and other players as a break from MP.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

I'm really looking forward to the SP. At first I was a bit underwhelmed by the idea of it being merely a practice mode for the MP. But in a way, it'll be a less random and BSful MP-like mode to satiate my MPish gameplay needs.

I mean that about all MP games, not just Starhawk. I've always just wanted unscripted, action packed gameplay in Warhawk without relying on servers and other players as a break from MP.

I just hope the single player doesn't have Zero Gravity hawk missions. I don't want discrepancies between single player and multi player game modes. Mainly I'll feel gypped if I get zero G in single player, but have gravity shenanigans in space for multiplayer dogfights. >:|

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

Well that's for balance issues haha. Imagine switching to mech mode and you just start twirling and floating off in space lmao.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

Well that's for balance issues haha. Imagine switching to mech mode and you just start twirling and floating off in space lmao.

I FLY UPSIDE DOWN ANYHOW!

Zero Gravity would be AMAZING!

 

[params7]

How much longer will the beta be up for?

Also LBI is deadset on not bringing back manual, non-canned dodging system right? Must really suck for you pro flighters. I'm glad normal flight is back, but hate the auto rolling as well. Just can't figure out why they are okay with dumbing down flight but advancing the ground game with no-auto aim, RTS elements etc.

 

[Loudninja]

How much longer will the beta be up for?

Also LBI is deadset on not bringing back manual, non-canned dodging system right? Must really suck for you pro flighters. I'm glad normal flight is back, but hate the auto rolling as well. Just can't figure out why they are okay with dumbing down flight but advancing the ground game with no-auto aim, RTS elements etc.

The 27th I think.

 

[weekend_warrior]

How much longer will the beta be up for?

Also LBI is deadset on not bringing back manual, non-canned dodging system right? Must really suck for you pro flighters. I'm glad normal flight is back, but hate the auto rolling as well. Just can't figure out why they are okay with dumbing down flight but advancing the ground game with no-auto aim, RTS elements etc.

There's still advanced flight with manual scrubbing, that's what I use. Flying still isn't as smooth or tight as Warhawk though, it's like night and day when you switch between the two.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

How much longer will the beta be up for?

Also LBI is deadset on not bringing back manual, non-canned dodging system right? Must really suck for you pro flighters. I'm glad normal flight is back, but hate the auto rolling as well. Just can't figure out why they are okay with dumbing down flight but advancing the ground game with no-auto aim, RTS elements etc.

The PSN scrolling ticker says the beta ends March 27th.

So that's why I can't shake missiles? I have to use the X + analog stick canned shit? Booooo.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

There's still advanced flight with manual scrubbing, that's what I use. Flying still isn't as smooth or tight as Warhawk though, it's like night and day when you switch between the two.

So how do you manually scrub missiles? Nothing seems to work.

 

[weekend_warrior]

So how do you manually scrub missiles? Nothing seems to work.

I have it set to the advanced flight mode or whatever it's called and all I have to do flick the right stick around to barrel roll and loop.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

I have it set to the advanced flight mode or whatever it's called and all I have to do flick the right stick around to barrel roll and loop.

Is advanced this game's pro flight? Because that's what I use. And when you say flick the stick around to loop, you don't mean the pre-canned stuff, right?

I've been trying to do similar tactics as Warhawk but no dice.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

Also LBI is deadset on not bringing back manual, non-canned dodging system right? Must really suck for you pro flighters. I'm glad normal flight is back, but hate the auto rolling as well. Just can't figure out why they are okay with dumbing down flight but advancing the ground game with no-auto aim, RTS elements etc.

SERIOUSLY!

Yes I get it Lightbox, you want to appeal to the f*cktard Dudebro market who likes to aim with a gamepad.

However you're ruining the game for people who enjoyed dogfighting in Warhawk by dumbing down Starhawk flight for the f*cktard Dudebro market who can't figure out how to not invert their plane or can't keep their Jaeger-bombs down because the horizon line keeps moving. >:|

Manual missile scrubbing is not as functional as it was in Warhawk. I believe we're screwed because LBI wants to keep some level of parity in all three flight modes, which is just plain crap. If the baby-game poo-poo flight modes are there as training wheels, then they need to deal with being at a disadvantage until they learn to use big-boy flight.

Dogfighting flight feels much better than when the beta started, but weapons are still crap. Missiles are largely useless due to ease of scrubbing, and in 1.3 it's just boost to Flak cannon. Boost toward foe. Fire off two, three rounds. Win. Repeat.