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[indigo-cyclops]

The thing is, Valve has won the right for me to trust them with my money on "cloud" copies from their service. They proved themselves wether its by providing great customer support, delivering to users exactly what they want, making free DLC for their games, giving away copies of their own games in special occasions, not condeming gifting games over different regions, etc.

EA has done the exact opposite.




He said nothing wrong, he said that if EA screws with something he paid money for, he is going to download it from a torrents site instead of buying a copy again.

Can you blame him?

I can't blame him, but I don't know how mod would take that?

I apologize for being blunt, just be aware of what is being said.

 

[Zimbardo]

might want to edit

what the hell is with these juniors lately. no idea of the rules.

i'm just saying that for the games that i already own.

if i paid for a game and EA or any other publisher locks me out of it, you're darn right i'd use a crack to play it.

 

[Snuggles]

Steam is a store, why would you pull product from a store because you're starting your own?

I don't understand? Retailers pull far more of their profits then Steam, does that mean EA isn't going to distribute through Best Buy and Gamestop anymore?

Who knows whats really gonna happen, I think we're a bit paranoid (rightfully so), but if they were to do that I'd imagine it's just a short sighted attempt at cutting Steam out of the equation and raking in maximum profits by making their digital titles exclusive to Origins.

 

[scorpscarx]

yeah, that sucks.

i backup the titles i buy tho, and keep a record of my cdkeys, so that situation wouldn't matter as much in my situation.

I backup all of my purchases now of course, on a backup hdd.

For dd to be successful though, people need accounts and 'entitlements' that do not expire, Valve knows this well.

 

[indigo-cyclops]

i'm just saying that for the games that i already own.

if i paid for a game and EA or any other publisher locks me out of it, you're darn right i'd use a crack to play it.

I see what you mean, sometimes things can get confused. Didn't mean to be an ass about it as well. So I apologize to you. Moving on.

As long as Steam and gaming is relevant, I'll have access to them I feel. That's comforting and is one of the reasons I trust Steam so much. This EA thing is really shitty.

I've also got a backup of all my downloads from sites like GOG, Gamersgate etc...Their software side is far less "trustworthy" IMO.

 

[LocoMrPollock]

I can't blame him, but I don't know how mod would take that?

I apologize for being blunt, just be aware of what is being said.

People say the same thing about their Steam games.

 

[coopolon]

I can't blame him, but I don't know how mod would take that?

I apologize for being blunt, just be aware of what is being said.

I don't think it's a problem. We frequently counter the crazies (I use the term fondly, I used to be one) who refuse to buy on Steam concerns that if Steam falls down tomorrow we'll all lose access to our games with the counter argument that if such a thing happened, cracks are pretty readily available to circumvent Steam.

I've always gotten the impression that the policy here is if you've bought the game, you're entitled to play it, even if it means undegoing some shady ways to make sure it works. an interesting counterpoint is by torrenting, you're also helping people who didn't buy the game get the game, which is not very good. In reality your contribution is probably negligible though.

For dd to be successful though, people need accounts and 'entitlements' that do not expire, Valve knows this well.

I agree, and I think EA does too as evidenced by the fact that they've never expired people's downloads in the 5-6 years they've been doing digital downloads (to my knowledge, if this is incorrect please correct me.) That's what my earlier point was meant to get across, you can't use TOS to predict how a company will actually act. If you did, you wouldn't trust anyone.

 

[indigo-cyclops]

I don't think it's a problem. We frequently counter the crazies (I use the term fondly, I used to be one) who refuse to buy on Steam concerns that if Steam falls down tomorrow we'll all lose access to our games with the counter argument that if such a thing happened, cracks are pretty readily available to circumvent Steam.

I've always gotten the impression that the policy here is if you've bought the game, you're entitled to play it, even if it means undegoing some shady ways to make sure it works. an interesting counterpoint is by torrenting, you're also helping people who didn't buy the game get the game, which is not very good. In reality your contribution is probably negligible though.

People say the same thing about their Steam games.

Yea, I totally agree, I just read his argument wrong and that was my fault. For example I bought Precursors on Gamersgate and some measures needed to be taken to get some bug fixes and some other things. The torrenting thing is a good point, considering how the system works.

Regarding the expiration thing, how long has it been since Mass Effect? I bought the PC version first through EA and don't think I've ever installed it. I ended up playing it on 360 then buying it cheap on Steam. I added a few more games to my account more recently, but I was able to gain access to my account still after a few years of inactivity.

 

[Salsa]

Just gonna say this out of the blue: but i hardly see Steam as a fad, like some journalism sites or other devs sometimes refer to.

I really think Valve and Steam are here to stay, and that even with a change on how things work, ill still be able to play the Steam games i own now in 20-30 years.

On my flying car with a super computer with retina-display, while wearing a top hat for good measure.

 

[coopolon]

Yea, I totally agree, I just read his argument wrong and that was my fault. For example I bought Precursors on Gamersgate and some measures needed to be taken to get some bug fixes and some other things. The torrenting thing is a good point, considering how the system works.

Regarding the expiration thing, how long has it been since Mass Effect? I bought the PC version first through EA and don't think I've ever installed it. I ended up playing it on 360 then buying it cheap on Steam. I added a few more games to my account more recently, but I was able to gain access to my account still after a few years of inactivity.

Mass Effect released on PC in 2008. EA had been doing DD for awhile before that though, I got Sims from them in late 2005 I think. And then I didn't touch it again until I got the Pinnacle Station DLC for Mass Effect 3 years later. Sims was still there.

Edit: Oops, I lied. I bought my first EA DD game in 2006, a Sims expansion, and didn't really use it again until 2009 with Mass Effect DLC.

 

[nexen]

I don't think it's a problem. We frequently counter the crazies (I use the term fondly, I used to be one) who refuse to buy on Steam concerns that if Steam falls down tomorrow we'll all lose access to our games with the counter argument that if such a thing happened, cracks are pretty readily available to circumvent Steam.

This isn't a crazy viewpoint. At all. The steam licensing is just that - licensing. You do not own these games, you did not pay to own them. You paid to license the use of the software, nothing more. If you read the steam eula they are very careful with their wording to that point. Steam is able to revoke your license for any reason at any time.
You digitially agree to and sign this agreement with every purchase you make.
From that point of view you are clearly in the legal wrong to be cracking the games to continue playing them if steam falls over and dies without releasing them for free (and they absolutely will not be able to do so)
We're in the dawn of a new distribution era here and just blindly trusting companies to do the right thing is going to lead to large amounts of heartache later. These companies will do whatever is in their best interest, especially when the survivability of the company is at stake, regardless of how much you like them and think they've treated you swell in the past.
I'm personally drinking the koolaid because I like the taste so much and because I believe it is going to be the only drink in town anyways but I'm fully aware that there is poison in it.

 

[Zimbardo]

do you guys know if there's an easy/good way to backup your EA games on Origin?

i really just started using Origin last week and never really looked into that aspect of things yet.

i'll have to do some googling on it.

 

[coopolon]

This isn't a crazy viewpoint. At all. The steam licensing is just that - licensing. You do not own these games, you did not pay to own them. You paid to license the use of the software, nothing more. If you read the steam eula they are very careful with their wording to that point. Steam is able to revoke your license for any reason at any time.
You digitially agree to and sign this agreement with every purchase you make.
From that point of view you are clearly in the legal wrong to be cracking the games to continue playing them if steam falls over and dies without releasing them for free (and they absolutely will not be able to do so)
We're in the dawn of a new distribution era here and just blindly trusting companies to do the right thing is going to lead to large amounts of heartache later. These companies will do whatever is in their best interest, especially when the survivability of the company is at stake, regardless of how much you like them and think they've treated you swell in the past.
I'm personally drinking the koolaid because I like the taste so much and because I believe it is going to be the only drink in town anyways but I'm fully aware that there is poison in it.

I'm sorry, I meant to come across as kindly kidding and I failed at that. Everything you've said above is correct, even the legality of cracking. And I certainly did not mean to stir up this argument again.

do you guys know if there's an easy/good way to backup your EA games on Origin?

i really just started using Origin last week and never really looked into that aspect of things yet.

i'll have to do some googling on it.

When it downloads, it downloads an installer to a folder you can specify in the settings. Just backup that installer and you've backed up the game.

Edit: I'm downloading a game now just to be sure since it's been awhile since I've backed any up and I'm not sure if they changed anything in Origin.

 

[nexen]

I'm sorry, I meant to come across as kindly kidding and I failed at that. Everything you've said above is correct, even the legality of cracking. And I certainly did not mean to stir up this argument again.

Not your fault at all. I walk around with a giant red button on me that says "PRESS THIS TO HEAR A RANT ABOUT DRM DESTROYING OUR CHILDREN"

Don't even breathe near it. It is on a hair trigger.

 

[Palette Swap]

I don't think it's a problem. We frequently counter the crazies (I use the term fondly, I used to be one) who refuse to buy on Steam concerns that if Steam falls down tomorrow we'll all lose access to our games with the counter argument that if such a thing happened, cracks are pretty readily available to circumvent Steam.

The underlying point is that Valve has the sense to know souring that relationship with their customers will mostly lead to more piracy, a beast Steam has been taming one user at a time through the years.
In the long run, DD (as opposed to just grabbing what is freely available) can only work thanks to good will on both sides. Most "progressive" devs/pubs get that.

I honestly don't trust EA to be so sensible and not fuck up at some point down the road with some short sighted decision (to cut on server costs or something).

 

[Zimbardo]

When it downloads, it downloads an installer to a folder you can specify in the settings. Just backup that installer and you've backed up the game.

cool. thanks. i'll have to give it a try later. sounds easy enough, tho.


just another thing with EA games on Steam ...that new Alice game isn't available on there yet either.

found that kinda interesting.

maybe EA really are starting to roll up their sleeves here and preparing to fight the giant that is Steam.

 

[1-D_FTW]

And this is why I'll buy all the remaining EA games I'm interested in if they're priced aggressively during the summer sale. I have zero faith these games are going to be available for the holiday sale.

 

[Salsa]

just another thing with EA games on Steam ...that new Alice game isn't available on there yet either.

found that kinda interesting.

maybe EA really are starting to roll up their sleeves here and preparing to fight the giant that is Steam.

NFS Hot Pursuit took like a month (might be exagerating, someone correct me) after release to be available on Steam.

It'll come.

The real question is what's gonna happen with BF3, wich has a much bigger following. If the steam pre-order doesnt show up in the next couple of months there will be blood.

 

[coopolon]

While EA's no angel and they've certainly messed up on plenty of things, they have a almost 6 year solid track record in providing digital downloads. I can understand why people don't trust them because of other decisions they've made in their publishing business, but I think it's unfair to characterize this most recent digital distribution push on their part as a passing fancy they're going to get tired of in a few months.

 

[DJ_Lae]

Downloaded Spiral Knights (Champions is still downloading) - holy hell the lag is bad. I guess it makes sense, their servers are probably overloaded, but it's basically unplayable.

 

[Zimbardo]

NFS Hot Pursuit took like a month (might be exagerating, someone correct me) after release to be available on Steam.

It'll come.

ah yes, thanks for pointing that out. i remember that delay now.


i just checked Direct2Drive for Alice and its available on there. guess EA really doesn't like Steam all that much. more like a love/hate relationship i guess.

 

[nexen]

The underlying point is that Valve has the sense to know souring that relationship with their customers will mostly lead to more piracy, a beast Steam has been taming one user at a time through the years.
In the long run, DD (as opposed to just grabbing what is freely available) can only work thanks to good will on both sides. Most "progressive" devs/pubs get that.

I honestly don't trust EA to be so sensible and not fuck up at some point down the road with some short sighted decision (to cut on server costs or something).

Even if Valve is the bestest company on Earth with love and hugs for every gamer - what happens when Valve is eventually sold to or undergoes drastic leadership changes? You are still bound by the EULAs which say Valve owes you nothing and can take everything away from you for no reason and if you find some way to circumvent this then you are breaking the (US) law. We should all at least recognize this, even if we accept it.

i just checked Direct2Drive for Alice and its available on there. guess EA really doesn't like Steam all that much. more like a love/hate relationship i guess.

I think EA would like to do nothing more than replace Steam whole-hog. These little delays and screw ups all seem to point to it, imho.

 

[scorpscarx]

I honestly don't trust EA to be so sensible and not fuck up at some point down the road with some short sighted decision (to cut on server costs or something).

This.
Trust. is. key.

EA: Sorry guys games from 2005 and earlier are now unavailable because we don't want to buy another TB hd to store the games, which are copied from a single copy everytime a user download's it anyway.

 

[kurtrussell]

I was a founder member for Champions Online, so basically I have full gold status for free forever. Haven't really ever played it for more than a month, but I may get back into it now that it's on steam - is there a GAF Champions Online OT for teaming and stuff?

 

[Snuggles]

I'll forgive EA for all their transgressions if they just release SimAnt and SimTower on GoG.

Is it really so much to ask? ;_;

 

[Zimbardo]

I'll forgive EA for all their transgressions if they just release SimAnt and SimTower on GoG.

Is it really so much to ask? ;_;

Simant was awesome. loved that game.

 

[confused]

Even if Valve is the bestest company on Earth with love and hugs for every gamer - what happens when Valve is eventually sold to or undergoes drastic leadership changes? You are still bound by the EULAs which say Valve owes you nothing and can take everything away from you for no reason and if you find some way to circumvent this then you are breaking the (US) law. We should all at least recognize this, even if we accept it.

I think EA would like to do nothing more than replace Steam whole-hog. These little delays and screw ups all seem to point to it, imho.

All EULA's will eventually lead to this :

 

[nexen]

Im going to forgive EA because they make Dead Space so damned good and I really need to play BF3.

All EULA's will eventually lead to this :
<pic>

Pretty much. I'm hoping that some day we get a consumer revolution that burns this stupid EULA-away-your-soul trend that took hold sometime in the last 20 years. It is pissing me off to no end.

Also, all EA games are gone from Steam except Dark Spore, not just Crysis 2

It begins. edit: maybe not

 

[balladofwindfishes]

ahahaha OH MY GOD

Origins accounts expire

jesus christ

How...

what?
Why would they do something like that, it's ridiculous.

Also, all EA games are gone from Steam except Dark Spore, not just Crysis 2

 

[Oreoleo]

How...

what?
Why would they do something like that, it's ridiculous.

Also, all EA games are gone from Steam except Dark Spore, not just Crysis 2

Except they're not. Remove the "TM" and you'll see they're all still there.

 

[coopolon]

How...

what?
Why would they do something like that, it's ridiculous.

Also, all EA games are gone from Steam except Dark Spore, not just Crysis 2

I can still buy Dead Space, Mass Effect, Crysis, etc. on my Steam client. revised search.

 

[Salsa]

How...

what?
Why would they do something like that, it's ridiculous.

Also, all EA games are gone from Steam except Dark Spore, not just Crysis 2

as stated before, they are all there if you look for the developer instead of the publisher.

Try searching for DICE

 

[LocoMrPollock]

How...

what?
Why would they do something like that, it's ridiculous.

Also, all EA games are gone from Steam except Dark Spore, not just Crysis 2

Still 42 showing up for me. Could swear it was 50 a little while ago, though.

Anyway, can't really blame them for not wanting to give 30% off the top for nothing really. But yeah, I don't think it's gonna go over very well considering that Steam users are more indoctrinated than the most successful cults ever could dream of.

 

[Blizzard]

Pretty much. I'm hoping that some day we get a consumer revolution that burns this stupid EULA-away-your-soul trend that took hold sometime in the last 20 years. It is pissing me off to no end.

This, software patents, and the DMCA are my personal pet peeves, I suppose. The DMCA is awesome in that with Super Smash Brothers Brawl, I think it would have literally been illegal for a U.S. person to get the key needed to COPY JPEG SCREENSHOTS from the game, so you could advertise Nintendo's own game for them by showing your friends your cool shots. I can't remember if they used AES or RSA, but it was something crazy along those lines. Thankfully some kind person (non-U.S.?) made the keys available so we could decode the screenshots and post them on the interwebs. Crazy.


Also, hahaha at the other EA games going away now. I think I literally gifted 5-7 Steam copies of Mirror's Edge. I even bought the (non-compatible) DLC from EA's own store.

*edit* I'm dumb. I just checked again, and I had to click BETWEEN the game title and the game logo picture to actually bring up the store page. Mirror's Edge is still up on the store.

 

[scorpscarx]

Still 42 showing up for me. Could swear it was 50 a little while ago, though.

Anyway, can't really blame them for not wanting to give 30% off the top for nothing really. But yeah, I don't think it's gonna go over very well considering that Steam users are more indoctrinated than the most successful cults ever could dream of.

Give me just released DRM free games with no download limits for every single new game and I'd happily jump ship, O wait that doesn't exist, there's some extremely logical reasons for LovingSteam

 

[Sir Garbageman]

So those free to play games... What's worth the download? I heard good things about Champions so I'll try that at least.

I tried Champions when it went F2P and I didn't like it too much. To be fair though I'm not a big MMO guy.

 

[Salsa]

The least they could do by taking a step back with support of their games on Steam and put emphasis in their own store is at least reduce the price by 20 percent or something, considering they dont have to give nothing to Valve anymore.

Take a game that is available for 60 bucks on Steam and make it a 45 bucks purchase on Origin.

The whole 60 dollar bullshit started with all the taxes and shit publishers had to pay at retail.

EA eliminates the middle man but keeps the same cost, hoping to get even more money, without providing a good discount to give people a reason to migrate.

EA being EA, i dont give two shits, etc.

 

[coopolon]

Give me just released DRM free games with no download limits for every single new game and I'd happily jump ship, O wait that doesn't exist, there's some extremely logical reasons for LovingSteam

Whose selling DRM free games with no download limits besides CDP Red? I guess you have only enjoyed witcher 2 recently.

The least they could do by taking a step back with support of their games on Steam and put emphasis in their own store is at least reduce the price by 20 percent or something, considering they dont have to give nothing to Valve anymore.

Take a game that is available for 60 bucks on Steam and make it a 45 bucks purchase on Origin.

The whole 60 dollar bullshit started with all the taxes and shit publishers had to pay at retail.

EA eliminates the middle man but keeps the same cost, hoping to get even more money, without providing a good discount to give people a reason to migrate.

EA being EA, i dont give two shits, etc.

Do you mind the fact that Valve sells their games for the same price as retail, even though on Steam they don't have to share any money with EA (distributor) or the retailer?

 

[scorpscarx]

Whose selling DRM free games with no download limits besides CDP Red? I guess you have only enjoyed witcher 2 recently.

Yeah I was only explaining what It would take to make me stop using Steam for something else.

Ironically your correct, I have only been enjoying that recently.

 

[LocoMrPollock]

The least they could do by taking a step back with support of their games on Steam and put emphasis in their own store is at least reduce the price by 20 percent or something, considering they dont have to give nothing to Valve anymore.

Take a game that is available for 60 bucks on Steam and make it a 45 bucks purchase on Origin.

The whole 60 dollar bullshit started with all the taxes and shit publishers had to pay at retail.

EA eliminates the middle man but keeps the same cost, hoping to get even more money, without providing a good discount to give people a reason to migrate.

EA being EA, i dont give two shits, etc.

Or Valve could renegotiate their take for bigger games. EA isn't the only greedy company around.

 

[Salsa]

Or Valve could renegotiate their take for bigger games. EA isn't the only greedy company around.

Valve's take is more than fair considering the service they provide to the devs and publishers.

PC retail was DEAD to publishers, Steam basically saved the PC market for the suits, and they dont even need to spend extra in providing that much retail support and marketing anymore where many people are fine with a DD only version of the game. It's just a win situation for them. EA just wants to take the same cut from PC versions of their games than they do from console versions, and that's just not gonna happen. A 60 dollar PC game is something people frown upon, and for good reason.

Even Activision, known as greedy evil-doers realized that making the COD games as steamworks was their best option in the PC market.

 

[1-D_FTW]

Still 42 showing up for me. Could swear it was 50 a little while ago, though.

Anyway, can't really blame them for not wanting to give 30% off the top for nothing really. But yeah, I don't think it's gonna go over very well considering that Steam users are more indoctrinated than the most successful cults ever could dream of.

70 percent of something is bigger than 0 percent of nothing. Not everyone is going to take a hardline approach, but I know I will. Game's gonna have to be really special for me to buy an EA game, and then I'm going to go B&M to spite them. Think Steam gives you a shitty cut, EA? How you like these apples? *whips up double barreled finger*

Spoiler

And then I'll put on my boots, smash the disc into pieces, and promptly tie the serial number to Origins and download from their system to cost them a couple more pennies in bandwidth costs

 

[Gvaz]

EA pulled a shitty sequel off steam? Don't care. Might force users to use origin? Mild annoyance.

Zimbardo and others you might want to read the Origin TOS, good stuff in there good stuff.
Among much much more:

" If you have not used your Entitlements or Account for twenty four (24) months or more and your Account has associated Entitlements, your Entitlements will expire and your Account may be cancelled for non-use"

These people just don't get it, if this happens and there's no more EA on steam, EA is completely dead to me, I'd also hope other people will not buy EA stuff as well.

This however, Fuck you EA. Not buying anything on Origin till this is fixed.

 

[jaundicejuice]

If I buy an EA game, I'm never buying it digitally from EA, all that TOS agreement ensures is that I'll occasionally be buying physical media from a brick n' mortar.

 

[Salsa]

Do you mind the fact that Valve sells their games for the same price as retail, even though on Steam they don't have to share any money with EA (distributor) or the retailer?

Not when its not 60 dollars. And not when they get constantly discounted on Steam.

 

[Gvaz]

Even if Valve is the bestest company on Earth with love and hugs for every gamer - what happens when Valve is eventually sold to or undergoes drastic leadership changes? You are still bound by the EULAs which say Valve owes you nothing and can take everything away from you for no reason and if you find some way to circumvent this then you are breaking the (US) law. We should all at least recognize this, even if we accept it.

I think EA would like to do nothing more than replace Steam whole-hog. These little delays and screw ups all seem to point to it, imho.

EULAs don't mean shit bro, and they sure as hell don't hold up in court.

 

[Diablohead]

I really like spiral knights and still have like 2600 unspent energy, so downloading that for steam instead of always visiting the website, not played it for a bit.

 

[nexen]

EULAs don't mean shit bro, and they sure as hell don't hold up in court.

o rly?

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...or-ruling-upholds-tough-software-licenses.ars

 

[coopolon]

Not when its not 60 dollars. And not when they get constantly discounted on Steam.

EA games get constantly discounted on Origin too. In fact, they get discounted earlier, faster, and more significantly than Valve games on Steam (based on Portal 2, I can't really remember how quickly L4D2 went on sale.)

If I buy an EA game, I'm never buying it digitally from EA, all that TOS agreement ensures is that I'll occasionally be buying physical media from a brick n' mortar.

I don't think buying physical copies is really any better. You can back up your downloads off of Origin, burn it to a disc, and you've backed it up just as well as a physical copy. Of course if you like the 2 page manual or box or something that's different. In terms of non-Steam EA games, I just buy wherever's cheaper whether it is Impulse, D2D, retail, or Origin.

 

[Gvaz]

o rly?

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...or-ruling-upholds-tough-software-licenses.ars

I guess I'm wrong, but I'd never agree to that ruling. If I went to jail for it, so be it. But I'm not abiding by that ruling ever.