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STEAM | January 2015 - Steam GOTY results: Delayed

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ExoSoul

Banned
I pretty much think (after todays discussion), that LLTQ is very much player skill game: skill to recognize the great game and play long enough to see that nothing is random and everything makes sense. Counter that! (><)

That's not skill, that's knowledge and understanding (the word understandable doesn't bear the same weight as in my mother tongue)
Consider yourself countered ;)
 

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
LOL @ calling out LLTQ for being trial and error and not DS. Sorry but 90% of the difficulty in DS is ignorance. Once you know what's up, everything is super easy. Yeah, you can handle stuff decently well before you know, but that's all a matter of battling/balancing your own incredible boredom with scouting things safely. I really don't see how developed combat skill is a thing in DS.
 

Arthea

Member
I know the game is not "random" (otherwise such perfect guides you find on Steam couldn't exist at all), but it seems so the first time you play it. Then you realize that same events occur always and always, so is all scripted. But I don't like the fact I don't own full control on the game, and in order to beat it I need to learn what skills I need to raise and when, by having a specific numbers of points on a skill before triggering an event in order to pass it.
Also regarding Dark Souls, you can beat the game on level 1. So the game is based on player's skill, not the number you put on your character while levelling him up (even because enemies level with you).
LLTQ is a trial and error game.

how is it trial and error? if every time you play you learn more and advance more, to the point that you can extrapolate what you need and build your character certain way and get certain ending, what I have done.
Let's stop beating around the bush, maybe it's too much effort required for some people, but that's not game's fault.

also LLTQ is no different that any other VN, until you haven't seen all endings, you haven't beat the game. If you've seen one or two, you barely started. And until you beat the game, you can't know for sure that it is trial and error, let alone playing one route with a guide. Isn't that so?

That's not skill, that's knowledge and understanding (the word understandable doesn't bear the same weight as in my mother tongue)
Consider yourself countered ;)

that's skill: skill of ability to understand and comprehend, also persevere, so 3 skills! ;)
 

ExoSoul

Banned
I really don't see how developed combat skill is a thing in DS.
Knowing when to roll and when to use your i-frames, knowing the strenghts and weaknesses of various move sets.
Make no mistake, it's very easy to man motte Dark Souls, excelling at combat on the other hand requires time and patience.
Same as with Vanquish, they give you the tools but it's up to you to find the depth.
 

Jawmuncher

Member
Knowing when to roll and when to use your i-frames, knowing the strenghts and weaknesses of various move sets.
Make no mistake, it's very easy to man motte Dark Souls, excelling at combat on the other hand requires time and patience.
Same as with Vanquish, they give you the tools but it's up to you to find the depth.

I want to include Resident Evil 6 in this for the same reasons.
 

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Knowing when to roll and when to use your i-frames, knowing the strenghts and weaknesses of various move sets.
I don't see how you are disagreeing with me. Knowledge won't save you in DMC, Bayonetta, or God Hand, where you need real execution ability. Sure, compared to other RPGs DS is a step up, but it is doing jack shit on the skill-based action front. It remains very firmly in the RPG camp where knowledge is the difficulty and knowledge is your win. Since that is the case, and knowledge comes by testing and experience, it is much like LLTQ.

Lol, really?
EVERY game is easy when you know what you'll face in a moment. Every.
Okay, so why don't you go read up on MvsC3 and beat Justin Wong.

Have you seen some youtube videos about level 1 plays? Well, that is skill. Naked and simple.
Okay so when you intentionally reject a massive portion of the game in order to completely transform the gameplay dynamics after becoming comprehensively familiar with the game so the element of knowledge is obsolete, then it is focused on skill? You aren't doing much to prove what it's design is, only what it can be made into. Don't know why you would scrap around to make it more interesting like that when other games are far more compelling for that type of gameplay anyway.
 

Arthea

Member
oh wait, now I get it! It's all about it being a VN, now I demand that people admit that VN can require skill? It's the end of the world, no less (><)
OK, I'm done with this talk.
Long Live the Queen!
 

Knurek

Member
LOL @ calling out LLTQ for being trial and error and not DS. Sorry but 90% of the difficulty in DS is ignorance. Once you know what's up, everything is super easy. Yeah, you can handle stuff decently well before you know, but that's all a matter of battling/balancing your own incredible boredom with scouting things safely. I really don't see how developed combat skill is a thing in DS.

We must've played different games.
Dark Souls is never super easy

I was joking... It's more complex than any VN that I know of. If you know more complex, gimme them! names I mean and where all choices matter.

Once again, King of Dragon Pass
 

ExoSoul

Banned
I don't see how you are disagreeing with me. Knowledge won't save you in DMC, Bayonetta, or God Hand, where you need real execution ability.
Really? Knowledge doesn't mean you'll execute it flawlessly, c'mon you're better than that...
In case it's needed: I'm implying Dark Souls also relies on the player's ability to perform.

Edit: I also like how you completely ignored everything else I said in that post.
 

Arthea

Member
?
Why are you thinking this? No one here said nothing about this involving its VN nature. Otherwise I compared it to Eryi's Action.

That's actually an insult, that's like saying that DMC is like pacman or even better like GoW.
but I really have to get back to work, because I had so much fun with this discussion, I haven't done much today (><)


I need to finish that too, but it's not like LLTQ, actually, not taking anything from that game, it's good.
 
D

Deleted member 125677

Unconfirmed Member
just installed my new AOC 144hz g-sync monitor. Should I set screen refresh rate in Display settings to 144hz or does it not matter?

Played a bit of Wolfenstein to test g-sync. My 770 feels GODLIKE now.
 

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
I stand by my figure of its challenge being 90% knowledge, but DS is almost a religion around here so I don't see a reason to continue arguing about it.
 

ExoSoul

Banned
that's skill: skill of ability to understand and comprehend, also persevere, so 3 skills! ;)
I think you mix skills with traits, would you call empathy a skill?


I stand by my figure of its challenge being 90% knowledge, but DS is almost a religion around here so I don't see a reason to continue arguing about it.
That or you won't acknowledge what others are telling you, wich makes for a poor discussion, it could be another game (as I previously said: Vanquish) and I'd still defend it the same.
Reading and understanding are different things, you clearly won't put your personal feelings for the game aside.
 

strafer

member
So I got Dead Space for free on Origin from that on the house deal, and today I got idea to add the game on Steam since they have there also, I look up the product code on my origin profile and put in on Steam, didnt work.

Is this intended? :D
 

Arthea

Member
I think you mix skills with traits, would you call empathy a skill?

skill is the ability to do something well, so yeah, basically everything you can learn to do and later learn to do even better is a skill. Trait is characteristic, it's not measurable, well, not entirely, but that's how language works, nothing is 100% defined.
 

yuraya

Member
The rescue 10 Damsel achievement in spelunky is such a pain in the ass. I'm always getting to like 7 or 8 before something crazy happens and I die. Ughh fucking Spelunky! Game is such a rage simulator.

So I got Dead Space for free on Origin from that on the house deal, and today I got idea to add the game on Steam since they have there also, I look up the product code on my origin profile and put in on Steam, didnt work.

Is this intended? :D

Never tried it that way but I believe it works the other way around. If you have it on steam you can copy the product key and activate it on Origin.
 

ExoSoul

Banned
It is when you use sorceries. New Game+ has been a complete joke with Intelligence at 50 and Logan's Catalyst.
There's a reason why magic is shunt by the Soul's community, everyone knows it.
As I previously said: it's very easy to man motte it, harder to excel in combat.


skill is the ability to do something well, so yeah, basically everything you can learn to do and later learn to do even better is a skill. Trait is characteristic, it's not measurable, well, not entirely, but that's how language works, nothing is 100% defined.

Skill is something that can be had in variable degrees, a trait is something that one either has or he doesn't.
You either understand something or you don't, there's no middle ground.
And before you say "You can understand it a bit/in different degrees": there's a reason for the word "misunderstood", if you misunderstand something then you don't understand it.
 
Dark Souls is so good it hurts me physically... or maybe it hurts that I played over eight hours in one sitting yesterday till 7:30am :O

Cleared out the Depths & Blighttown together with Capra Demon & Gaping Dragon. GP took me three tries but once I got him, my hands were literally shaking lol.

Blighttown was to my surprise much easier than expected.
Those freaking frogs in the Depths though... cursed me two times and I lost 14k souls for good. The biggest amount ever.
 

fantomena

Member
Caved in and ordered Life is Strange for 11.85$ on GMG. Mostly because I loved Heavy Rain and the game looks Heavy Rain-ish.

Now only RE: Remake, Grim Fandango and M&M 3 HD left.
 

Miguel81

Member
It is when you use sorceries. New Game+ has been a complete joke with Intelligence at 50 and Logan's Catalyst.

I'll be trying a sorcerer build in my next playthrough, just for the hell of it. First co-op(I was conjured) experience near Gwyn was with a sorcerer that decimated the guy before I even entered the gate.
 

Arthea

Member
Skill is something that can be had in variable degrees, a trait is something that one either has or he doesn't.
You either understand something or you don't, there's no middle ground.
And before you say "You can understand it a bit/in different degrees": there's a reason for the word "misunderstood", if you misunderstand something then you don't understand it.

That's not true, understanding has degrees, even literature uses it, as in deep understanding or fleeting understanding or barely understanding and there is no more pure language than literary. Misunderstood means to understand in a wrong way, usually contrary, that has nothing to do with levels of understanding.
 

Sch1sm

Member
Dark Souls is so good it hurts me physically... or maybe it hurts that I played over eight hours in one sitting yesterday till 7:30am :O

Cleared out the Depths & Blighttown together with Capra Demon & Gaping Dragon. GP took me three tries but once I got him, my hands were literally shaking lol.

Blighttown was to my surprise much easier than expected.
Those freaking frogs in the Depths though... cursed me two times and I lost 14k souls for good. The biggest amount ever.

Only gets worse, man.
Lost 39k once. x.x
 

Deques

Member
Buying games with free money seems kinda good

DyH5trR.png
 

Stallion Free

Cock Encumbered
There's a reason why magic is shunt by the Soul's community, everyone knows it.
As I previously said: it's very easy to man motte it, harder to excel in combat.
I guess they should just shun everything then because sword and shield is easy too if you pick a decent sword and build stats around it and understand the concept of stability with shields.
 

ExoSoul

Banned
That's not true, understanding has degrees, even literature uses it, as in deep understanding or fleeting understanding or barely understanding and there is no more pure language than literary. Misunderstood means to understand in a wrong way, usually contrary, that has nothing to do with levels of understanding.
Misunderstood means "to not understand the true meaning" and there are no levels of understanding, you either do or don't.
Everything else are deturpations the word and its meaning has suffered over the years, and we know authors like to pervert words in theirs works, do it enough and it'll be a common thing.
Edit: I find it amusing how this turned out to be the debate of the eyes x)


I guess they should just shun everything then because sword and shield is easy too if you pick a decent sword and build stats around it and understand the concept of stability with shields.
Do you deal 600 damage with swords with no draw back? You'll also eventually lose all your stamina and become staggered suffering critical damage, does the same happen with a caster who's not dumb enough to be in melee range?
Don't be quick to post.
 

Tizoc

Member
Man it just occurred to me:
Onimusha has characters whose name share some of those in Sengoku Basara.

That can be confusing a bit lol.
 

Arthea

Member
Misunderstood means "to not understand the true meaning" and there are no levels of understanding, you either do or don't.
Everything else are deturpations the word and its meaning has suffered over the years.

And you somehow are an expert in language and meaning of words? You created it?
Gosh I hate language arguments, they make everybody look so entitled and clueless (><)
We'll agree to disagree? Deal?
 

Chariot

Member
Man it just occurred to me:
Onimusha has characters whose name share some of those in Sengoku Basara.

That can be confusing a bit lol.
That's because those are people that actually existed. Both games are set more or less in a fanstsy version of the Sengoku era in Japan.
 

Stallion Free

Cock Encumbered
Do you deal 600 damage with swords with no draw back? You'll also eventually lose all your stamina and become staggered suffering critical damage, does the same happen with a caster who's not dumb enough to be in melee range?
Don't be quick to post.
Cast times aren't that fast and many bosses can either hit you with attacks in lock-on range or close the gap almost immediately. Also you have a limited number of casts of each spell and no way to refill them mid-boss. Woah, sorcery has some potential downsides too.
 

_hekk05

Banned
The rescue 10 Damsel achievement in spelunky is such a pain in the ass. I'm always getting to like 7 or 8 before something crazy happens and I die. Ughh fucking Spelunky! Game is such a rage simulator.

When I got that achievement I went through the tower and the mothership to get those 2 damsels.

Don't go through the worm, you skip 1 possible level of damsel.

Also don't try for hell. Save up that ankh for a death so you can get the cheevo more easily.
 
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