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STEAM | January 2016 - Out of cash, out of cache

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Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
I'm glad I got RotR on XBO. Who knows how long it'll take to optimize properly on PC. I mean on the one hand it's the most beautiful game I've ever seen, but on the other hand they were also always so good at making PC games that run brilliantly so I don't get what's up with this. Maybe the XBO development involved too many specialized tricks and translating it to PC was tricky?
 

Dsyndrome

Member
It's not Tomb Raider, but hopefully it'll get you pumped for next month. Has everything new-XCOM related, hate that there's no picture... hopefully somewhat fixed.
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Tomb Raider is so pretty, great textures everywhere

Hopefully I didn't make a mistake by choosing Survivor difficulty.

You and me both, don't know why I've suddenly started going for Hard in the last two years.
 

Turfster

Member
I'm glad I got RotR on XBO. Who knows how long it'll take to optimize properly on PC. I mean on the one hand it's the most beautiful game I've ever seen, but on the other hand they were also always so good at making PC games that run brilliantly so I don't get what's up with this. Maybe the XBO development involved too many specialized tricks and translating it to PC was tricky?

More pretty means bigger means more memory, basically.
 
Married GAF: don't make the same mistake I just did. Don't tell your wife "Rise of the Tomb Raider is one of the best looking games I've ever played..."

If you need me, I'll be on the couch tonight.
Not really though.
Has your wife ever seen you play Resident Evil Revelations?

Goddamn, Jill.
 

Rhaknar

The Steam equivalent of the drunk friend who keeps offering to pay your tab all night.
Darkest Dungeon is amazing from the little I played. This "buying games when you want to play them insteda of waiting for a sale and then maybe you dont want them by then" thing is working out.

Time to name all those characters as steamgaf people so I can fulfil my dream of killing you all.

Nah im just joking.
Or am I?

Edit: and I can do it again next week with xcom 2, good times ahead for steamgaf members virtual maiming
 
1kIYIKg.png

MSPainting with confidence.

I was afraid
hoping
this would happen.

Your confidence is assured.
Darkest Dungeon is amazing from the little I played. This "buying games when you want to play them insteda of waiting for a sale and then maybe you dont want them by then" thing is working out.

Time to name all those characters as steamgaf people so I can fulfil my dream of killing you all.

Nah im just joking.
Or am I?

Edit: and I can do it again next week with xcom 2, good times ahead for steamgaf members virtual maiming

I cracked and preordered XCOM 2... so I'll bring you in there.

You will die good and early, I reckon.
 

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
More pretty means bigger means more memory, basically.
I wouldn't underestimate optimization, though. There are quite a lot of diminishing return issues when it comes to PC games. Like do I really need to trade in 10fps for 8k shadows? Nope. Then you have things like when people modded distance meshes to be like 20x more efficient for the same visual effect in Skyrim to massively boost performance and make it more consistent. When moving to PC that kind of thing can be an unforeseen consequence of increasing LoD range from the console version. Tomb Raider Legend and Underworld were great and ran great for their time on PC so I don't think this is just pushing the boundaries so much it's beyond all but the very top hardware.
 

jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
Rise of the Tomb Raider GTX 970 vs R9 390/1080p60 PC Performance

Both cards about the same. Neither manages 1080/60 maxed out. At a bit lowered settings all is fine though.
I should start playing TR13 soon.

I'm happy to report I've been getting pretty consistent 60fps at 1080p with my R9 390X / 5 year old CPU / 32GB of RAM. It will occasionally drop down into the low 50s but overall I'm pretty impressed with the performance.

I haven't gotten brave enough to crank it up to 1440p after looking at a lot of the benchmarks earlier today, but I might be able to maintain 30 at that res if I'm lucky.
 
I imagine Lashman beat me on this, but Arcen Games is not doing well and will be imminently laying off almost all their staff. This follows the release of Starward Rogue, which looks like Rebel Galaxy and is then suddenly not.

The gist of it is that the Steam store changes dramatically shifted their revenue month-to-month, improving sales day-to-day but worsening them overall due to worse sale event earnings. Coupled with Starward Rogues' development taking longer than anticipated and failing in the marketplace, this lead to a revenue shortfall and Arcen Games' current woes.

If anyone can't remember who Arcen Games are, they're the ones that made AI War: Fleet Command.
 

Backlogger

Member
Game of Thrones is a Humble Gift link

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Lomax

Member
I imagine Lashman beat me on this, but Arcen Games is not doing well and will be imminently laying off almost all their staff. This follows the release of Starward Rogue, which looks like Rebel Galaxy and is then suddenly not.

The gist of it is that the Steam store changes dramatically shifted their revenue month-to-month, improving sales day-to-day but worsening them overall due to worse sale event earnings. Coupled with Starward Rogues' development taking longer than anticipated and failing in the marketplace, this lead to a revenue shortfall and Arcen Games' current woes.

If anyone can't remember who Arcen Games are, they're the ones that made AI War: Fleet Command.

Honestly I think they were propped up for a while with bundle revenues, as it seemed like their games were heavily bundled for a while. Unfortunately, I think this also meant that people realized their newer stuff would be bundled rapidly, and it has been. That probably impacted the sales of their most recent game. All that said, they had a bit of a reputation for making creative, weird, but not *quite* great games that were compelling for a while but ultimately flawed.

Edit: reading the article, they state their back catalog sales have dried up, which would certainly be indicative of the impact of the heavy bundling. I own almost their entire back catalog without really trying, and have seen it in countless other bundles. At a certain point I can't imagine they have that much audience left, especially one that will pay a higher price on Steam knowing bundles are almost certainly coming.
 

Teggy

Member

So it should be said I bought The Witness for $40 on release day.

Next, you seemed to have taken a severe reaction to something I didn't even say. I have not declared the game doa, I simply said if the game underperforms (which it may not) it would be sad if poor pricing was the reason (since I think it is a game worth playing).

Finally, marketing is not a simple math problem. Just because a person says they would pay $20 today for a particular game today does not mean they will pay $20 for that game when the summer sale rolls around. At that time other games will have been discounted and might attract more attention. Then this person decides that they'll wait for $5. You just lost $15 from that person because you priced the game too high at release. Marketing has to consider the full life cycle of the release, including how much publicity and excitement the game will be able to capture on release, what kind of substitutes will exist, perception of value, etc.

The fact that people complained right off the bat that the game was too pricy was an indication of poor marketing. The perception in the minds of the consumers was this was a story-light puzzle game made by a small team spearheaded by the guy whose only other game was a fairly short 2d puzzle game. There also was not a ton of PR for this game. I have no real knowledge of what was done from a market research perspective, of course, but from the outside looking in it seems to me a price of $20 would have better suited the game if more effort was not going to be made to explain why the game was worth $40.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
So it should be said I bought The Witness for $40 on release day.

Next, you seemed to have taken a severe reaction to something I didn't even say. I have not declared the game doa, I simply said if the game underperforms (which it may not) it would be sad if poor pricing was the reason (since I think it is a game worth playing).

Finally, marketing is not a simple math problem. Just because a person says they would pay $20 today for a particular game today does not mean they will pay $20 for that game when the summer sale rolls around. At that time other games will have been discounted and might attract more attention. Then this person decides that they'll wait for $5. You just lost $15 from that person because you priced the game too high at release. Marketing has to consider the full life cycle of the release, including how much publicity and excitement the game will be able to capture on release, what kind of substitutes will exist, perception of value, etc.

Yes I included that in my post.

The fact that people complained right off the bat that the game was too pricy was an indication of poor marketing.

I actually don't think that many people complaining about the price were going to buy it at launch to begin with--they're just people reacting on the internet to news they read, the same way I think Battlefront looked like a pile of shit but there was no way I would have bought it to begin with because I don't own a platform to play it on.

I also don't think people who would be buying it if it was cheaper complaining it's too pricy for them right now is an indication of poor marketing.
 
So it should be said I bought The Witness for $40 on release day.

Next, you seemed to have taken a severe reaction to something I didn't even say. I have not declared the game doa, I simply said if the game underperforms (which it may not) it would be sad if poor pricing was the reason (since I think it is a game worth playing).

Finally, marketing is not a simple math problem. Just because a person says they would pay $20 today for a particular game today does not mean they will pay $20 for that game when the summer sale rolls around. At that time other games will have been discounted and might attract more attention. Then this person decides that they'll wait for $5. You just lost $15 from that person because you priced the game too high at release. Marketing has to consider the full life cycle of the release, including how much publicity and excitement the game will be able to capture on release, what kind of substitutes will exist, perception of value, etc.

The fact that people complained right off the bat that the game was too pricy was an indication of poor marketing. The perception in the minds of the consumers was this was a story-light puzzle game made by a small team spearheaded by the guy whose only other game was a fairly short 2d puzzle game. There also was not a ton of PR for this game. I have no real knowledge of what was done from a market research perspective, of course, but from the outside looking in it seems to me a price of $20 would have better suited the game if more effort was not going to be made to explain why the game was worth $40.

Even if you split the difference and went for $30... sure, you lose out on $10 per copy sold now, but the additional volume of people who may buy it because all their friends are playing and talking about it because it's only $30 (and not $40) may have made up for it.

Without being clairvoyant or operating in a vacuum, however, I fear we will never know the difference between what was right and wrong for The Witness in terms of pricing.
 

Knurek

Member
IDK, SUNLESS SEA doesn't look that fun to me, it doesn't look anything to me, and I don't have time for no fun nothings.
Or am I missing something?

It's the game with the best writing on Steam, I thought that would interest you?
Yes, even better than a certain duology of fishing games
 

Teggy

Member
I also don't think people who would be buying it if it was cheaper complaining it's too pricy for them right now is an indication of poor marketing.

I honestly do - it's like the number one thing you hear about this game. A quality, well reviewed game and people are complaining about the price.
 

Lomax

Member
Honestly, games with strong buzz, good reviews, and good word-of-mouth should price their game as high as they think they can get away with. Personally, the game was barely on my radar, but now with all the talk I'm much more interested. I'd never buy at $40, but mentally I'll set some price point and eventually when it gets there, I'll buy. The legs on PC are infinite, it's not like console where all the sales are in the first two months. If people like it and continue to talk about it, when it goes on sale for $20 that buzz will be there and all the people who would have bought at that price will jump in. Likewise at $10 and so forth. It's not like we'll be seeing The Witness 2 next year around this same time. Hopefully the developers have the sense to look at the long term prospects of the game and to appreciate those possibilities.

Unfortunately, with all the bluster he's been making about pirated games, I'm concerned he may come out in a month or two and say "sales were disappointing because too many people pirated" at which point he will have poisoned that well severely and will probably push a lot more people into the "bundle or never" category.

I honestly do - it's like the number one thing you hear about this game. A quality, well reviewed game and people are complaining about the price.

It's the internet. If the most serious thing people are complaining about is the price, they've done a pretty good job. It's sat near the top of the sales lists for a couple days now and the peak players is around 5k. Those people certainly aren't spending their time posting on forums about the price.

And lets face it, anyone complaining about the price is just hoping they would get a better deal and wanted to feel like the game is a bargain. Tangibly the price is irrelevant, eventually the price will change. All anyone paying more now is doing is getting the opportunity to have the experience sooner. If price is a major concern to people, then those people don't mind waiting. Personally that's why I like having my large library, I see this game and think "wow, I should really play Talos Principle. And Antichamber. And Portal 2." All of which I already own, paid $5 or less for, and haven't played yet.
 

Ventara

Member
Oh, I just realized Sunless Sea is free-to-play for the weekend. No wonder you guys are talking about it. Gonna give it a go and see how it is.

Edit: Why does the game keep saying "zee" instead of sea. Just seems stupid. Edit 2: Oh, wait, probably because the sea is called the Unterzee. Still stupid, though.
 

Teggy

Member
Unfortunately, with all the bluster he's been making about pirated games, I'm concerned he may come out in a month or two and say "sales were disappointing because too many people pirated" at which point he will have poisoned that well severely and will probably push a lot more people into the "bundle or never" category.
.

Agreed. And while he probably thought his price complaint forum was clever it just serves to highlight the issue in people's minds.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
I honestly do - it's like the number one thing you hear about this game. A quality, well reviewed game and people are complaining about the price.

The number one thing I hear about the game is that it's good. A minority of the negative user reviews on Steam are about the price, and outside those who have bought it, mostly I hear confusion about the mechanics more than anything about the price. But again even if people were complaining about the price, that wouldn't mean the price was set incorrectly for a number of reasons.
 

Dsyndrome

Member
Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen has >200K owners at $30 in two weeks; best we can gather Steam-wise with inaccurate numbers is 25k for the Witness at $40. Do we think it's going to be anywhere near 200k for the Witness two weeks from this Tuesday? I doubt it. Hopefully it sells 150k to break the spread roughly.

Don't want to be the peon that crunches the probabilities for that shit, since that's boring and I hate that I'm taking this class again in grad school.
 
Darkest Dungeon is amazing from the little I played. This "buying games when you want to play them insteda of waiting for a sale and then maybe you dont want them by then" thing is working out.

Time to name all those characters as steamgaf people so I can fulfil my dream of killing you all.

Nah im just joking.
Or am I?

Edit: and I can do it again next week with xcom 2, good times ahead for steamgaf members virtual maiming
I remember your recent post when you were undecided to get Darkest Dungeon since Xcom2 was so soon and you'd be surely lost for a while there. I see you are of a weak mind! Cracked without any outside pressure. How will you ever fare once monsters face you deep down? Better take me on your adventure! ;)
 

neonglow

Member
I ended up buying the Humble Bundle so now I have an extra key to give away.

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t1454047509z1.png
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen has >200K owners at $30 in two weeks; best we can gather Steam-wise with inaccurate numbers is 25k for the Witness at $40. Do we think it's going to be anywhere near 200k for the Witness two weeks from this Tuesday? I doubt it. Hopefully it sells 150k to break the spread roughly.

It's not clear why we'd be comparing DD:DA to the Witness. DD:DA had a higher budget than the Witness, DD:DA Steam version probably had a lower budget than the Witness. DD:DA Steam edition is a late release on PC, Witness is simultaneous on PS4 and PC and later coming to mobile; and it's not clear we'd expect Steam to have the higher sales in light of the fact that the game actually received more promotion through PSN than Steam and in light of the fact that simultaneous releases often do better on console (at least at first, before the long tail legs kick in), and it's also not clear that since the genres are not even remotely the same we'd even expect comparable sales--AAA character action games on Steam outsell adventure and/or puzzle games in general.

I would expect the Witness wants to break even over the next year or so. I'm guessing that happens somewhere around 300k-400k full price copies (high millions budget). I expect that they'd want to do somewhere around 100k-150k across both platforms in the first few weeks to be on track for that if word of mouth kicks in and they keep some momentum going. All just napkin math on my part, but 3-4x multiples from launch sales to lifetime sales is generally quite achieveable and The Witness was 5-8 people for 5-8 years at Northern California salaries/benefits so I would say over 5 million and under 10 million is a pretty reasonable guess. So really the big question mark is the ratio of PS4 sales to Steam sales, and without that I don't think we can say much about what the Steam sales mean for the game.
 

Teggy

Member
The number one thing I hear about the game is that it's good. A minority of the negative user reviews on Steam are about the price, and outside those who have bought it, mostly I hear confusion about the mechanics more than anything about the price. But again even if people were complaining about the price, that wouldn't mean the price was set incorrectly for a number of reasons.

Enough people complaining about the price that a forum was set up for them and high amounts of pirating could certainly be indicators that the price was set too high. I'm not sure why you are so reluctant to accept the possibility.

Anyway, speaking of said game, I got my third laser on tonight and it was definitely a mental workout. This was the
flooded control room area
 

tmarg

Member
Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen has >200K owners at $30 in two weeks; best we can gather Steam-wise with inaccurate numbers is 25k for the Witness at $40. Do we think it's going to be anywhere near 200k for the Witness two weeks from this Tuesday? I doubt it. Hopefully it sells 150k to break the spread roughly.

Don't want to be the peon that crunches the probabilities for that shit, since that's boring and I hate that I'm taking this class again in grad school.

DD is an open world action RPG, the most popular genre in gaming at present. The Witness is a puzzle adventure game thing. It was probably never going to sell as many copies, no matter how good it is, or where it is priced.
 
I complained about XCOM 2 being $80 so I paid $95 for the deluxe edition instead.

Hah, I showed them!
Oh, I just realized Sunless Sea is free-to-play for the weekend. No wonder you guys are talking about it. Gonna give it a go and see how it is.

Edit: Why does the game keep saying "zee" instead of sea. Just seems stupid. Edit 2: Oh, wait, probably because the sea is called the Unterzee. Still stupid, though.

You will zee soon enough.
 

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t1454050928z1.png
 
tried out that blade and soul mmo, its alright. got to lvl6 before i shut it off, I'll play some more of it tmrw. Went with the assassin class obviously, love me some mobility in my characters.
 

Ventara

Member
Initial impressions of Sunless Sea are so-so so far. It looks great, and the sound does a great job at creating the atmosphere. You can also see that there a great deal of depth to the game with all the options and whatnot. What I DON'T like is the writing. Example: "The Unexpurgated Gazette, the Magazine Formerly Known as the London Magazine, the Spiteful Trumpeter. News." Like, what was that? I didn't even know unexpurgated was a word, let alone what it means, and why is the first letter of magazine, formerly and known capitalized? It's not a name. The writing in this game seems to be filled with things like this (and that's all I've been doing this past 30 minutes). It just does not read well and makes it harder to get into the game for me.

You will zee soon enough.

Seems like there may be more going on here. Will definitely be finishing a playthrough or two.
 

Lain

Member
I just hope Blow won't put The Witness into a bundle 3 months down the road (yeah it's a 40$ game, but you never know).
He did better than most indies by not doing a 1:1 price conversion (this already makes me want to just go and grab the game), so I hope he won't stumble on the next step.

Indie developers kinda do devalue their games at an alarmingly fast rate and as much as I love getting lots of games for cheap, I do feel they need to take a step back and stop the mad rush to the bottom a lot of them engage in.
 

Dsyndrome

Member
I guess my point in comparison between the two is probably anecdotal at best; of my friends, 20 have the Witness, 60 have DDDA.

DDDA is a way late port VC-style (by style I mean way late port, not genre) that garnered a large ownership base in two weeks, don't think it's just to do with open world; The Witness on Steam doesn't seem to be reaching that level IMO, whether it's due to marketing, price, Sony-hate, what-have you. My thought is that if it launched at $30 like DDDA, the end profit up front would be the same as the $40 with less of the negative stigma, despite that DDDA is a >3 year port.

Wish I had initial number for Talos Principle to compare, didn't see many options on Steamspy for mobile.
 

tuxfool

Banned
What I DON'T like is the writing. Example: "The Unexpurgated Gazette, the Magazine Formerly Known as the London Magazine, the Spiteful Trumpeter. News." Like, what was that? I didn't even know unexpurgated was a word, let alone what it means, and why is the first letter of magazine, formerly and known capitalized? It's not a name. The writing in this game seems to be filled with things like this (and that's all I've been doing this past 30 minutes). It just does not read well and makes it harder to get into the game for me.

From what I read, the writing in this game has generally been critically acclaimed.
 

Ventara

Member
From what I read, the writing in this game has generally been critically acclaimed.

Maybe it's just that I'm tired, but this writing is making everything harder to register. Probably gets better as you get used to it, maybe.

Edit: And I just dies. Came across some sort of fish and I chose to fight when I probably should have run. I literally just left port, too, lol.
 
I have no idea what The Witness is until just recently, weeks before release. RPG being a more popular genre than puzzle games helps as well, I think. Dragon's Dogma is just more popular, and RPG fans have been waiting for years.

Edit:
Is uplay's "preload" like Steam? In the sense that it requires twice the amount of hard drive space then what it tells you?

So instead of needing 28gb it will actually require 56gb to unpack the preload, etc?

Does anyone here have any experience with uPlay preload?
 
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