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STEAM | July 2014-2 In his house at R'lyeh, dead Cthulhu waits dreaming

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Beelzebubs

Member
No, you aren't. You don't get a return on investment, you don't get shares or any kind of ownership or rights related to the product that is being kickstarted, and you don't get to see any of the money they make. Basically, you are assuming the risk of an investor without any of the potential benefits. Or, to say it in a more friendly way, you are paying for the promise of getting a product.

You're investing in an idea. Without those initial "investments" the idea would not happen. If the idea comes to fruition then you recoup your investment with a copy of whatever you've backed. Yes you're not a true investor but you're just arguing semantics.
 

Anustart

Member
So...I'm pretty much the baddest mofo in Skyrim, nay, all of Tamriel.

C16D1F602B982964616F70ACA56A43CE665FC86B
 

aku:jiki

Member
BO2 is a really good game. I don't know how populated the DLC maps are, but you can disable them via Steam if they cause any matchmaking issues.
BO2 really is surprisingly fun. I was a big fan of CoD4, but have been disappointed in every game since except for BO2.

Playing Ghosts, I could feel my soul leaving my body.
 

lashman

Steam-GAF's Official Ambassador to Gaming-GAF

Nabs

Member
BO2 really is surprisingly fun. I was a big fan of CoD4, but have been disappointed in every game since except for BO2.

Playing Ghosts, I could feel my soul leaving my body.

There are actually people out there who defend that game. Shit spawns and all.
 

derExperte

Member
Looks like an indie promotion is the weekend madness. Or something else.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/227580/

10000000 kaufen

Indie Piñata Discount for owners of the following games:
MouseCraft
The Bridge
Monaco
Flockers
Dungeon Hearts
10,000.000
Triple Town
Super Splatters
Contraption Maker
Jack Lumber

All those are reduced.

Chill bro.

He really should have. Don't post dumb things in politics threads.
 

Nabs

Member
Looks like an indie promotion is the weekend madness. Or something else.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/227580/



All those are reduced.

Here's the trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41rlaIwZwBQ

Discounts: http://indiepinata.com/

The Bridge - 60%
TripleTown - 66%
Dungeon Hearts - 50%
Monaco - 60%
Flockers - 33%
Contraption Maker - 50%
MouseCraft - 33%
Super Splatters - 50%
Jack Lumber - 50%

I'm not 100% sure, but the 20% MouseCraft coupon doesn't seem to have any restrictions. This could be a nice little deal if you skipped the PWYW pre-release promotion.
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
Will there be quakecon sales on steam today ?

I'd presume so. Here's what can only be some sort of super Bethesda bundle. I'm not sure if Wolf14 is supposed to be included as while it's not in that sub it is in the RU one (Russia has its own Dishonored app/DLC).
 

derExperte

Member
I'm going to guess yes, since I want Wolfenstein and in the last couple days I blew all the M&M money I had left in my Steam wallet. My suffering will be everyone else's gain.

If Wolf gets a higher discount than during summer sale I might scream a bit. Though if the Dishonored DLC is -75% all's good.
 

morningbus

Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
Could? No, this has to be arranged.

If you manage to reach $750, make it Borderlands too.

I'll say it now:

If we pass $492 (6 months of credit), I will livestream Serious Sam 1 to 3 (specific versions to be determined).

Borderlands 1 or 2 would have to be an event where we raise money for an actual charity.
 

Dr Dogg

Member
If Wolf gets a higher discount than during summer sale I might scream a bit. Though if the Dishonored DLC is -75% all's good.

I couldn't wait and snagged Brigmore Witches and The Knife of Dunwall at 50% off as I thought that's the cheapest they're ever going to be. And then the GOTY pack showed up :(

Could? No, this has to be arranged.

If you manage to reach $750, make it Borderlands too.

Hahaha I thought you meant Borderlands 2 then. Will tolerate shitty games for cable credit!

dat fish AI, though!!!! :p

Well their response was worth hearing at least. "What the fish AI thing? Nah that was a joke, you internet guys spotted that one didn't you, bravo!" Sure it was.
 

Coreda

Member
Does Amazon have its own season of sales during the year? As the Steam threads mostly cover Steam sales I'm wondering if there have been some decent deals I've missed.
 

Turfster

Member
Does Amazon have its own season of sales during the year? As the Steam threads mostly cover Steam sales I'm wondering if there have been some decent deals I've missed.
If they're Steam keys, they get listed here too.
The deals haven't been very good in the last... year(?) or so, tho.
 

wilflare

Member
I was playing BF4 when my friend told me about the news of that Malaysian Airline jet getting shot down.

I have stopped playing.. this is just crazy
 

Mokoi

Banned
I grabbed Wolfenstein, gonna return my sealed PS4 copy now. Now to download 44 gigs. :p

Uhh downloading that was a pain, but worth it since the game is quite fun.

Happy birthday to me, early shift, hope I get back early for somr GAF Csgo

Happy birthday!

Another part of the problem is that Kickstarter treats $1k novelty projects the same as $1 million dollar corporate sponsorships. If your Kickstarter goes (or even tries for) a larger amount (say $100k or more), it should require financial details. Where the money is going and why. Actual expense reports and transparency both before and during the project. If three months in backers see that 90% of the money is gone, they might catch on a bit. This Yogscast kickstarter was two years ago, and by all accounts has been mostly dead for at least a year. This shouldn't be news now, it should have been news 18 months ago when it became obvious it was going to fail.

Yeah I agree that financial statements should be a given with the big projects. From the few Kickstarters I've actually looked at. Most just give a small rundown/piechart on what the money is going to, but actually seeing the cash flow would be great.
 

_hekk05

Banned
I was playing BF4 when my friend told me about the news of that Malaysian Airline jet getting shot down.

I have stopped playing.. this is just crazy

Why the hell are you even playing BF4?

That said, I'm probably never gonna fly malaysian airlines again. Just too unlucky touch wood. And I'll be flying aug 12 too (to US)
 

wilflare

Member
Why the hell are you even playing BF4?

That said, I'm probably never gonna fly malaysian airlines again. Just too unlucky touch wood. And I'll be flying aug 12 too (to US)

wanted to see if there's problems with my GPU (artefacts popping up etc)
but I thought I'll just finish the campaign

when I first heard the news,
I just met the Russians in-game.
 

RionaaM

Unconfirmed Member
That's not quite true, though. KS backers are entitled either their reward or a refund, just like anyone else in any other case. That's true in both the KS terms of service and as a matter of contract law. The problem is that the only time you don't get your reward is if the company has used up all the money and gone bankrupt, in which case how do you get your refund? Well, you can sue them and you'd win, but how do you enforce judgment? You can't enforce a small claims judgment against a bankrupt company. And is it a judicious use of your time? No, not really, especially not for $10.

This is true with conventional advance purchases as well. If you go to a print shop and say "I want you to print me <xyz>" and give them a downpayment, and you go back when the job is supposed to be done and they've gone bankrupt, what do you do to get your downpayment back? If you book a venue for an event next year and the venue shuts down before the event rolls around, how do you get your deposit back? In all cases, the answer is that if a hostile actor is not cooperating with you, you sue them to get legal remedy, and you shoulder the burden of enforcing judgment against them, and if they well and truly have no money with which to refund you, chances are you're not ever going to get a refund. A bird in hand is worth two in the bush (wow, the double entendre there is brutal, I've never noticed that before) is a lesson worth repeating here. It's still a purchase, you're still owed it, but if they don't fulfill, you're probably up shit creek without a paddle.

Or imagine some other kind of fraud. Imagine you have internet service through Comcast, and they just randomly decide to overcharge you $15 this month. So you call them, and they say "Oh yeah, you got overcharged. We'll refund you." and then they don't. So you call again, and they say "No, we issued the refund, tough shit." What are your options at this point? Well, you can do a credit card chargeback. That will get you your money but presumably you will never be able to get service from Comcast again. The same is true here--nothing prevents you from doing a chargeback and facing the consequences from Amazon, which handles the payments for KS. You could go to the media and try to kick up a stink. You can do that here, as well--but the people responsible for taking your money aren't hiding or burying the fact that things didn't work out, they simply can't refund you because they don't have the money to. Or you could sue Comcast. You'd win, of course. But the odds of it being worth your time are pretty near none. You can do that here. So again, the entire basis of our market system is trust, and the entire thing that supports that trust is reputation and the legal system.

Or imagine something as simple as being at a fast food place, ordering food, paying, and never getting your food and the store won't give you a refund. If they keep being obstinate, you eventually need to sue them. It's not worth your time, but you will have to do that if they resist.

KS isn't just a donation to a cash pile. It is a purchase. You are entitled to something for your money, or you are entitled to a refund. Just like any other purchase. But like any other purchase, you are basically doing it on the basis of trust and confidence, and if those fail, only the legal system protects you, and it doesn't protect you very well, and it's not worth it for the smallest stuff.



In terms of consumer protection, the most obvious way KS could protect you would be to offer optional purchase insurance that insures a refund of the project. They could pretty easily do an actuarial table. The question is who would buy it. So I donate $25 to a project. KS gives me a pop-up saying "For only $10, we can insure your $25 purchase against the project not being fulfilled." If I thought the chance of failure was high enough to merit the insurance, why would I pledge? So, decline the insurance. Anyone who'd be willing to buy the insurance shouldn't be pledging at all, which just gets us back to square one, right?

Alternatively, KS could offer a type of project funding where instead of taking 5% or whatever they take, they take 25% as a hedge against project failure. There's two possibilities for how project creators could react to this. One is that instead of asking for $100k, they'd ask for $120k+ to cover the fee. In which case, fewer projects would be funded (there's no reason to believe that the security of insurance would make people pledge more because there's no reason to believe people are pledging less today as a result of risk, as these projects show) to begin with. Alternatively, the project creator asks for the same amount of money, but has even less to spend on the project. This makes narrowly-funded projects even more likely to fail once funded, albeit reducing the risks if they do fail once funded. This is similar to the approach a lot of places use to pay for your expenses if you're in a car accident with a driver that has no car insurance; a liability pool. But remember that the impact of this is that people who do pay for insurance pay more, so while it solves one problem, it creates another.

So I mean thinking about consumer protection, there are options, but none of the options magically fix the problems that lead to projects failing to begin with. Ultimately it's still going to come back to a judgment call on the part of the funder. Anyone who spent 10 seconds of rational thought on Yogsventures would have found the project lacking.

- Why am I funding this? Because of the Yogscast name. Who is working on it? A bunch of people who are not Yogscast.
- What pedigree does this team have? None, admittedly they have never made a game. Some of them have maybe worked on previous games, but we don't know who or which or who is on project management.
- How much are they asking for and is it likely to fund the project to completion? Let's do a Fermi estimation. $250k (so probably than $200k after physical rewards, KS, taxes, Amazon, etc). $200k gets you about 20 person-months of employment in the US (I'm going for $75k a person year and then thinking licensing, administrative costs, rent, equipment, etc. I'm in the ballpark). We know this was a professional team taking professional salaries, nothing about the project purported that this was a garage operation or someone taking enough money to pay for ramen and peanut butter and a dial-up connection while slavign away. For a team of 5-6, that's about 4 months. For a team of one person, that's about two years. Can you make a 3d open-world adventure game in 4 months with a team of 5 people? No. Can one person make this in two years? Maybe? Maybe not? Is there any evidence of external funding to plug funding gaps? No.
- Is this an interesting looking game? The answer is honestly no, but I guess different strokes for different folks. But still, I mean, it probably wouldn't hurt to check whether or not they seem to have a really good core idea for a game with proof of concept stuff in their pitch. These guys didn't. It looks like they had an extremely basic 3d engine (Unity?) prototype with a few models. I don't see any evidence that they had much of a game design at the time they pitched it.

It took me maybe 60 seconds to type that and well under 10 seconds to think it. I have to assume that the people who backed it either spent less than 10 seconds considering the risks, in which case, like, honestly? I spent more than that when I'm standing in front of a vending machine considering buying a bag of chips. Or they did consider the risks, but they lacked the capacity to do the above analysis, in which case I feel bad.

To those people, I say: for 10% of your Kickstarter pledge to any Kickstarter project, I will produce a one page briefing telling you my assessment of whether the project is likely, plausible, implausible, or impossible including hard-hitting analysis like the above. Paypal only, no refunds. Let me know. I'm sure now that I've offered this wonderful service, no one will ever again be burned by a KS.
This is a great and insightful post, and I want to thank you for writing it. And yes, the best thing to do would be making sure potential backers are fully aware of where their money is going to. Ignorance does not excuse malice or scams, but it sure can help prevent it.

Happy birthday to me, early shift, hope I get back early for somr GAF Csgo
Happy birthday! Have a great day!
 

lashman

Steam-GAF's Official Ambassador to Gaming-GAF
Well their response was worth hearing at least. "What the fish AI thing? Nah that was a joke, you internet guys spotted that one didn't you, bravo!" Sure it was.

joke, right :p it sure as hell didn't sound like a joke to me in that "trailer" :p lol
 

Dusk Golem

A 21st Century Rockefeller

Here was my Steam review on it:

Murdered: Soul Suspect is detective-ghost story told through the interactive-medium of gaming. Murdered is kind of like a combination between a TellTale game, LA Noire, and Alan Wake... But honestly the game is more often than not more like an interactive movie, and I think it's with these expectations that you best experience Murdered.

Murdered: Soul Suspect tells the tale of a man named Ronan, who at the game's start experiences his own death. He is pushed out of the window by a notorious murderer, who is known as the Bell Killer, who then commences to shoot him seven times in the chest. Ronan grew-up as a criminal in Salem, but changed his ways late in life to become a detective, partially for the woman he loved, Julia. However, he was torn apart a few months earlier, when Julia's life was taken at the hands of a street mugger. At death's door, Ronan discovers he is a spirit to this world, trapped here until he can move on from something that's keeping him bounded here. He finds out that he can be with Julia again in the world beyond our own if he can resolve whatever is keeping him here, so he goes out to try and solve the case of his own murder.

Gameplay is rather simplistic in Murdered. You will spend most of your time exploring around, using your ghost powers, and looking for items and clues in the environment. As a ghost, you can freely pass through human-world objects, which essentially makes clipping a gameplay mechanic, but you might be surprised how natural it ends up feeling and due to some good visual cues and sounds it ends up not looking or feeling weird, and makes sense with everything else built up with the game. The only objects you can't pass through are ghost-world objects (relics from the past which are present in the ghost world, and tell-able they're ghost world as they glow with a blue aura), and into or out of buildings freely (ghosts can only enter or exit buildings through open doors or windows). Other powers at your disposal include the ability to possess people, to either read their minds or influence their thoughts, to poltergeist and make objects (mostly machinery) act up, to teleport around by choice, and a few other underutilized but still interesting powers.

The game splits-up between 'stages' (bigger interior areas usually), and a Salem hub-world. The stages I thought generally got better as the game went on, and Salem was a joy to explore... At first. The problem is that not much really happens in Salem, it stays the same mostly for the whole game so you can literally almost do everything in it the first time you enter the hub-area (with only a few things you can only do once you gain the teleportation power).

As you explore, there's a variety of content to immerse yourself in the world. There's a lot of side areas and areas off the beaten path. You can approach living people to listen in to conversations they're having with each other, made more amusing you can then possess them and see what they're REALLY thinking. You can approach ghosts, and either talk to them briefly, question them about something they're up too, and very occasionally help them via a side-quest to move onto from this world to the next. However, there are literally only about 3-4 side-quest in the game, and there is obvious content and characters that were left around for more side-quests, but were left-out as cut content. Things like items you can observe for no real reason, characters it looks like you would be able to help but then they cut you short from actually helping them.

And then there's the collectibles. This game kind of goes overboard with it's collectibles, but they're pretty enjoyable and expand a lot on the plot, the lore, Salem's history, character background's, additional cinematics, and my personal favorite, ghost stories. Extended from this, the investigation scenes usually have you looking for and going about collecting clues, and then putting together the clues that matter to a particular solution or outcome. These typically were rather simple, and sometimes felt more like sort of mindless collecting to get to the point. However, other times they actually felt kind of rewarding. None were really 'puzzles' I would say, but were a mixed bag.

The only other real gameplay mechanic is demons, which are rather underutilized. I didn't find them offensive, and I'll admit there was a few times when their screeches or them detecting me legitimately startled and scared me. However, there's only one type of demon in the game, you only face a few of them in the game, and their encounters are often brief and they're easy enough to deal with (you sneak up behind them to execute them, otherwise they spot you and chase you down, where you hide in things until they lose interest).

But then this is a game I'd argue isn't really about winning or losing, it's an interactive film essentially, and on that account it pulls some things off really well.

Firstly, the audio design is fantastic in this game. The voice acting for the main characters are all well-done and performed, and even most minor characters are rather well-voiced (though you'll find a few reoccurring VAs). The ghost stories you can get via collectibles deserve particular praise, as the acting done here really adds a lot to the story, and honestly are really well-done.

But it's not just the voice acting. The music is very good too, with some good creepy vibes, emotional melodies, and songs to go well to the mystery. The ambiance of sounds in the environment also add a lot, with a lot of attention to detail to help bring the locations alive. And even the game sounds, for solving cases, getting clues, etc., are all satisfying and fitting.

The story is quite good, especially if you like detective-ghost stories, ala' The Frighteners, Sixth Sense, or the like. While the writing can be a bit hammy at times, they do have some believable dialogue between characters, the story has interesting developments as it goes on, and there are some rather well-done plot twists throughout.

CIneamtics deserve special mention. The cinematography is really well-done, with fantastic angles, focus, artistic direction, and were a joy to watch.

And the characters are well-realized, trope-ish, but manage to be developed and become more than their tropes and have rather realistic relationships with each other. They have fights and don't agree, but come together (sometimes reluctantly), and there are a few heart-warming moments and real development with each other as it goes on.

Graphically it looks good for the sort of niche budget title it is. Some nice attention to detail in environments, some good art direction, and some of the models are rather well poly'd. There's some visual quality dips in certain areas, textures... But not a bad looking game at all.

Generally, I would label this as a game for gamers who like story, exploring, and world-building above all else. Gameplay really takes a step-down to the game's other elements, and it will definitely strike with its niche. But its lack of action, focus on making what is usually the 'extra' parts of games the main part, and just the general styling and minimal gameplay make it lack that mainstream appeal. I'd also say it isn't worth its $50 pricetag, but felt it was worth it for the $15-25 range.

I'd say if the game interests you, it is worth experiencing... Just maybe not at full price. It is different than your typical budgeted game in this day and age, and is sure to find a cult audience. In some aspects, it's a bit disappointing or under-cooked, but as a whole, this may be one of the best realized classic-styled ghost stories to appear in the gaming medium for years. Like the Fedora or not, Ronan is the perfect tour guide into a very different look at ghosts, Salem, and games with a budget.
 
If they're Steam keys, they get listed here too.
The deals haven't been very good in the last... year(?) or so, tho.
I find navigating GMG site very clunky and it's more difficult to than it should be to find pubs/franchise deals. That said, there are only three games in the quakecon sale? And brink is at 15€. Wth, that's not a good deal at all. Their banner has rage on it but no deal for that on the page. I don't like GMG's site.
On Amazon sale. Care to link? Why aren't Amazon's steam game deals available outside of us though? All the other big sellers allow it. German Amazon's steam offerings pale in comparison.
 
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