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Stellaris |OT| Imperium Universalis

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Martin Anward @Martin_Anward
Added an option to set AI aggressiveness in @StellarisGame for Clarke patch.
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Gotchaye said:
I declare war on a neighbor and destroy their fleet, so they surrender and become my vassal. This doesn't seem to do much for me. They don't seem to pay me tribute. I guess they're supposed to send their own ships to help me in future wars but this is not an enormous benefit because I already have infinite minerals and better ships. If I wait 10 years I then get the incredible opportunity to wait 20 years while losing 3 influence per month in order to incorporate them.
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Vassalization seems only worth it if you're interested in territory more than acquisition of planets through war and, also, it's a way to quickly neutralize a large empire, since 60 warscore is trivial.

In truth, war rewards are very anemic right now and I think the Asimov patch in June will fix more than a few of these concerns. You will be able to make a tributary through war, for example, and other various demands like open borders.

If instead I try to liberate planets, my understanding is that they lose the planets which pop up as independent empires with my ethics. Can I easily vassalize these empires without blowing up all their stuff? But then I still have to wait 10 years plus to incorporate them.
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Usually, yes. Overwhelming strength combined with some diplo bonuses makes it easy to diplo-vassalize (as opposed to enforced vassalization) smaller states. Integration time scales linearly with the number of planets involved. You can integrate that 3 planet empire much faster than a 20 empire one. That is, once you make it past the 10 year threshold. In their other games, one common strategy is to chain vassalizations so every integrated vassal is followed by the integration of another one. You're spending a lot of influence, true, but you're going to spend it anyway because a lot of the other methods of suppressing revolts and whatnot also consume influence. Influence is just a very important resource, having an unupgradeable cap and low rate of growth.

How does Cede Planet work? Do I just own the planet outright with their pops still on it? I guess this seems like the way to go to actually add research and industrial output to my empire? How soon can I go to war again in order to get more planets?
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You get the planet outright and this usually puts you over your cap so I tend to quickly throw them into a sector. Truces last 10 years. You can ware against the same empire every 10 years. Also, when you take planets like this the POPs tend to get upset and will try to rebel and won't be productive for a few years until they lose their resentment mallus. I'm not sure how long this lasts. You can fight them directly by stationing defense armies, or indirectly through purges/ressettlements/edicts/faction decisions.

Same question about technological enlightenment. Uplifting seems to make sense, but TE just creates a vassal state that doesn't do anything for me for 10 years plus and which sometimes doesn't even like me very much. Is there a better way to do this? At least the incorporation period isn't decades.
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It gives you some extra troops, and access to a new race once you integrate them.

You will have to accept that with the Stellaris model, it takes a long, long time to see returns from war outside of immediate territory expansion (which also includes stations, potentially colonizable planets, etc).
 
SourBear said:
That is the wrong way to go with the AI in my opinion. That needs to be a per-AI setting, not a global one.
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The tooltip makes it seem like empire attributes like Ethos will be accounted for. I'd expect a Fanatic Militarist to be kicking down doors constantly, but suspect Pacifists, even with high aggression, will not be that relatively war hungry.

The setting might as well be a slider from "Best of times" to "Worst of times". Even a pacifist might lash out if tensions are high and desperation is setting in.
 
SourBear said:
That is the wrong way to go with the AI in my opinion. That needs to be a per-AI setting, not a global one.
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It may be (hopefully is) a modifier. So we could still have AI's that are more warlike than others, this just adds to that.

Hopefully.
 
is there some bug in the trading? sometimes when you want something from someone, like a research agreement, you get -1000 and it won't change no matter what you offer. it obviously means they are not interested. but if you leave the demand and close the trade window and then come back, the demand is sometimes still there at 0, and then you can add your own offer, like your own research agreement, and suddenly you're 10 or more in the green. you can effectively make the ai give you something they didn't want to give and they will even pay for the privilege.

i'm guessing that the ai doesn't realise the old demand is still up there, and is calculating the deal without it. gamey as fuck but gots to have me minerals.

does not work with fallen empires, though. you can still get the 0 to appear, but nothing you offer will get it to +1.
 
John Dunbar said:
is there some bug in the trading? sometimes when you want something from someone, like a research agreement, you get -1000 and it won't change no matter what you offer. it obviously means they are not interested. but if you leave the demand and close the trade window and then come back, the demand is sometimes still there at 0, and then you can add your own offer, like your own research agreement, and suddenly you're 10 or more in the green. you can effectively make the ai give you something they didn't want to give and they will even pay for the privilege.

i'm guessing that the ai doesn't realise the old demand is still up there, and is calculating the deal without it. gamey as fuck but gots to have me minerals.
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You don't actually get the old demand. It's just a graphical issue.
 
Addendum to the above so it doesn't get lost in the wall-o'-text.

The 'Recently Conquered' mallus (-25% to happiness) lasts 10 years from the time of end of the war.

So, regardless of what you choose to do, you're looking at 10 years before seeing direct economic returns from war.
 
by the way, is it normal that my chancellor is over 140 years old and has been re-elected without my interference for at least 50 years, perhaps longer? neither the leader nor my species have any longevity traits, and all my other leaders typically die in their late 80s or so. is there some rule that when there are elections instead of heirs, the leader does not die in office?
 
I mean, it does sort of make sense in a realistic regard. The problem is when you're hemmed in by a lot of other empires it makes expanding extremely difficult. Meanwhile other empires that aren't close to other empires can expand with impunity.
 
Haly said:
Addendum to the above so it doesn't get lost in the wall-o'-text.

The 'Recently Conquered' mallus (-25% to happiness) lasts 10 years from the time of end of the war.

So, regardless of what you choose to do, you're looking at 10 years before seeing direct economic returns from war.
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I went to war with a Fallen Empire and they offered me all of their star systems. Even with the penalty, my production nearly doubled as soon as the war ended.
 
AbortedWalrusFetus said:
I mean, it does sort of make sense in a realistic regard. The problem is when you're hemmed in by a lot of other empires it makes expanding extremely difficult. Meanwhile other empires that aren't close to other empires can expand with impunity.
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I don't know.

In some senses you can expand too quickly. Once you start hitting 200 minerals per month, you can just spam colony ships to gobble up planets, and then extend it even further with frontier posts, all while throwing them into sectors so they manage themselves and cost you no maintenance.

On the other hand, expanding through war is a very grueling process and you're constantly managing your conquests.

All this says to me that they don't want warfare to be the kind of blitzkrieg hyperexpansion it can be in CK2 and EU4, although the requirements for vassalage are a bit too low.

I do agree however, that it can be very annoying to get hemmed in early. I'm hoping the border improvements in the Clarke patch will alleviate this somewhat.
zer0blivion said:
I went to war with a Fallen Empire and they offered me all of their star systems. Even with the penalty, my production nearly doubled as soon as the war ended.
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I've never made it that far so that's good to know. But it is kind of late. You're going to be going up against a lot of empires before you're at the Fallen Empire level. My friend burned out on Stellaris because war was just too much drudgery for his tastes. He's a CK2/Civ5 player whereas I'm a primarily EU4 player so I'm attributing the difference in our tolerance levels to that.
 
Haly said:
Addendum to the above so it doesn't get lost in the wall-o'-text.

The 'Recently Conquered' mallus (-25% to happiness) lasts 10 years from the time of end of the war.

So, regardless of what you choose to do, you're looking at 10 years before seeing direct economic returns from war.
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Thanks for the long post. Ceding is letting me expand much faster in a new game. I actually have yet to see a faction crop up in any game, maybe because I tend to keep happiness pretty high (and until now haven't done much conquering). The guys I just conquered are sitting at 66% even with the -25% penalty from being conquered and another -5% for not being allowed to be leaders, and as far as I can tell I'm immediately getting 100% productivity from them.
 
War expansion should be grueling and difficult, but at the moment, there's really not much to DO between expansion phases. Factions are overly passive and easily managed, rebels are weak as hell, and unlike the earlier colonial expansion phases there's not any scripted content to run through either.
 
My conquered guys tend to have a lot more malluses like migration or slavery or purging and whatnot, so my experience with Cede Planets has been harsher.

Probably because I keep experimenting with collectivists.
 
One war finished and another has begun, specifically with me this time and just as I was about to enter an alliance lol.

They have a stronger fleet, but inferior tech and capacity than me. But I only had a 1k fleet on standby and they came and destroyed it and then bombarding London, my capital, with a 4k fleet.

Managed to crank out another fleet which also met it's demise. Then another that I sent to one of their systems and sure enough that distracted the enemy. I went to escape only to get caught and killed. So another fleet made and sent to one of their outposts to destroy it, then onto another system.

They only seem to have the 1 fleet but it's stronger, so I'm trying to attack with this one now just over 2k and build up smaller units to join when safe.

I shall not be defeated.
I shall probably be defeated
 
Haly said:
I've never made it that far so that's good to know. But it is kind of late. You're going to be going up against a lot of empires before you're at the Fallen Empire level. My friend burned out on Stellaris because war was just too much drudgery for his tastes. He's a CK2/Civ5 player whereas I'm a primarily EU4 player so I'm attributing the difference in our tolerance levels to that.
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I was lucky enough to get into an alliance early on and then form a federation and we're unstoppable. The military isolationist FE was right next to me, preventing me from expanding, so when it was my turn to be Federation leader, I declared war on them. It was over really quickly.
 
This game is so much fun- it's sucking up all my GAF time. At some point I'm going to have to get all my thoughts together, but for now I think people are right that the game lacks depth in the mid game (scripted events series are a paradox game staple- I was shocked that outside of anomalies and late game crises there simply were none) BUT the game is still just too fundamentally fun for me to care that much. Plus watching space battles probably won't ever get old. First play through is nearing its end - just beat a fallen empire for the first time after they pearl harbored me, but the Unbidden just showed up so time to rebuild and reload. Also robots are awesome - I'm hoping giving them full citizenship and leadership staves off revolt.

Has anyone gotten the event that changes your primary species?
 
Haly said:
Addendum to the above so it doesn't get lost in the wall-o'-text.

The 'Recently Conquered' mallus (-25% to happiness) lasts 10 years from the time of end of the war.

So, regardless of what you choose to do, you're looking at 10 years before seeing direct economic returns from war.
Click to expand...

Eh, the -25% isn't a big deal if you just spend some influence on propaganda broadcasts/make a xeno zoo/make one of the other empire-wide happiness buildings.
 
Haly said:
Addendum to the above so it doesn't get lost in the wall-o'-text.

The 'Recently Conquered' mallus (-25% to happiness) lasts 10 years from the time of end of the war.

So, regardless of what you choose to do, you're looking at 10 years before seeing direct economic returns from war.
Click to expand...

Is there a way to avoid the -25% malus when integrating a vassal?
 
Kabouter said:
Is there a way to avoid the -25% malus when integrating a vassal?
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Not that I know of, and I don't even know why it exists.

The whole point of integration is that you peacefully absorb another society into yourself. Why are they getting upset for being 'conquered' if they were never upset as vassals?
 
Ugh, this ethics divergence bug is killing me. Just a few years and half the pops in my colonies have no ethics at all. It's killing my interest in playing until they fix it.
 
spiritfox said:
Ugh, this ethics divergence bug is killing me. Just a few years and half the pops in my colonies have no ethics at all. It's killing my interest in playing until they fix it.
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I'm feeling the same, but more about border access politics.
Gimme Clarke already!
 
Really wish the first contact period wasn't so short. It could be so much more interesting if it took longer to decipher the other civ's language.

Saganator said:
All 3 of my games so far I start right beside a Fallen Empire =/
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I haven't even met a Fallen Empire in all 3 of my games.
 
I went to manage factions on one of the fallen empire worlds and accidentally granted independence and they are a fanatic purifier. I'm going to have to wait until I'm federation leader and release them from vassalhood then declare war immediately.

There really should be a confirmation for granting independence.
 
zer0blivion said:
I went to manage factions on one of the fallen empire worlds and accidentally granted independence and they are a fanatic purifier. I'm going to have to wait until I'm federation leader and release them from vassalhood then declare war immediately.

There really should be a confirmation for granting independence.
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Reload the autosave.
 
spiritfox said:
Ugh, this ethics divergence bug is killing me. Just a few years and half the pops in my colonies have no ethics at all. It's killing my interest in playing until they fix it.
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Same here, I was hoping for it to be more polished than this really. Considering the time you can put into a campaign before it inevitably goes all whoopsie-daisy-have-to-start-again!
 
I wish there were more way to gain influence. I've found that I like playing in medium-large galaxies with fewer AI, because it makes running into another race a rare occurrence which is exciting. However, since Rivalry is a main way to gain influence, it makes it difficult to play this way. Unless I'm totally missing something, which is completely possible.
 
piratepwnsninja said:
I wish there were more way to gain influence. I've found that I like playing in medium-large galaxies with fewer AI, because it makes running into another race a rare occurrence which is exciting. However, since Rivalry is a main way to gain influence, it makes it difficult to play this way. Unless I'm totally missing something, which is completely possible.
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There are I believe 3 techs that each give a flat +1 influence per month.
 
piratepwnsninja said:
I wish there were more way to gain influence. I've found that I like playing in medium-large galaxies with fewer AI, because it makes running into another race a rare occurrence which is exciting. However, since Rivalry is a main way to gain influence, it makes it difficult to play this way. Unless I'm totally missing something, which is completely possible.
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There's a bunch of society techs that will give you increased influence.

One of the mid-late-game planetary capital upgrades also gives you +1 influence (empire unique).

I usually find myself with +6-8 influence by mid-game. You're not meant to have much more than that I think.
 
piratepwnsninja said:
I wish there were more way to gain influence. I've found that I like playing in medium-large galaxies with fewer AI, because it makes running into another race a rare occurrence which is exciting. However, since Rivalry is a main way to gain influence, it makes it difficult to play this way. Unless I'm totally missing something, which is completely possible.
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I have 1000 influence + 15 and nothing to spend it on besides edicts

there needs to be more use for it in mid-late game IMO
 
spiritfox said:
Ugh, this ethics divergence bug is killing me. Just a few years and half the pops in my colonies have no ethics at all. It's killing my interest in playing until they fix it.
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I personally got one of the bugged endgame situations. Really killed my desire to play the game after dumping so many hours in. It sounds like it will be a lot more playable and balanced after the end of June patch.

Pacifism seems OP as well. If you play a dick government, everyone will be out to get you. With pacifists, people don't try to kill you as often. The bonuses also seem more worth it. I tried a slavery fueled build and it didn't seem very competitive relative to the others that give flat bonuses. The tech slowdown as you get bigger also really discourages early expansion which is absolutely key, so I hope they balance that a bit more.
 
Decided to avoid the trap of the Gaia World. I checked out the Fallen Empire's info and sure enough it's sole purpose is to protect sacred systems.

There are several Gaia worlds around this Fallen Empire...I think it might be beneficial for me to actually leave them and hope other empires take the bait.
 
Wyndstryker said:
Decided to avoid the trap of the Gaia World. I checked out the Fallen Empire's info and sure enough it's sole purpose is to protect sacred systems.

There are several Gaia worlds around this Fallen Empire...I think it might be beneficial for me to actually leave them and hope other empires take the bait.
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The ones they are looking to protect say holy world in the description, so they aren't necessarily tied to that empire.
 
I'm about 20 hours into this game and still haven't got a clue of what I'm doing, but each time I pick it up I don't want to stop playing. Uploaded my steam controller config which is based on a couple of different existing community configs - no idea how well it holds up for advanced players, but I'm enjoying the game well enough with it.
 
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