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[Aureon]

Clarke's update:

Any sufficiently detailed sector control system is indistinguishable from micro hell.



There is a real problem in map terms caused by the lack of 'oceans' in addition to the difficulty gaining access through other countries. In EU4 there is this whole other part of the map that is controlled separately from the large land masses. In Stellaris, as in other 4x space games, space is a series of islands and you have big areas of influence between them.

Fallen Empires should be 'oceans' in more cases, imho.
Militant Isolationists - Unpassable
Keepers of Knowledge - Civilian access
Enigmatic Observers - Military access, can't battle without drawing FE aggro
Holy Guardians - Military access

We're gonna need more of them at that point, though.

That, or turn all blackholes in wormholes for everyone with a mid-game tech.

Imagine if there was a spiral galaxy setup, but there was an "inner ring" that you could access but not colonize or build inside of. You "hop on" then "hop off" at various places along the configuration. Good luck justifying that in the lore, but map wise it would allow for a similar sort of concept, where you could in principle be "land locked" but there were also star systems that had access to this interiour hyperlane network.

Stellaris offering 3 kinds of FTL is an interesting idea, but I would contend probably to its detriment. Not only in the sense that it's challenging to balance well, but also in that kind of throws out a lot of tactical or strategic considerations if you can't be sure of what your enemies are going to have access to. Warp drive is extremely boring, while Wormhole and Hyperdrive both have very interesting properties that impact strategic thinking - you have to defend wormhole stations, and you have chokepoints that you can defend with hyperlanes. I think hyperdrive is probably the best/most interesting from a game design perspective.

A lot of the crappy nature of fighting once you actually get to the gravity well would be fixed if there was a predictable way to tell where people would show up when they dropped out of FTL. You'd need an overhaul for that probably, limiting the number of places FTL travelers could appear to a few per system, perhaps even with fixed exit points when coming from certain directions.

Military stations force FTL exits in their range, though. There's a battleship upgrade that does the same too, i think.

Have you tried your swarm missiles against corvettes which have point defense?

Not throughly.
AI doesn't war metagame, it seems.

 

[Poodlestrike]

It's utterly mindboggling they didn't ship the game with stacking penalties, lol. I mean I guess having micro-swarms isn't much more interesting. But at least that might incentivize having more than one fleet.

Yeah, but like you said, that just results in you splitting your fleets up but moving them together. There needs to be a balance whereby it's better to have many fleets than one, because you need to be doing many things at once. Defending, attacking, all at the same time. As it is, you only really *need* one fleet; imposing stacking penalties just results in you having 1 fleet that you have to move around as if it were 3 fleets, or whatever.

is there a mass relay equivalent in the tech tree I haven't uncovered yet?

You mean a station that throws you a longass distance? Not really.

 

[spiritfox]

A 10 tile Holy World? Not even worth it.

 

[Jintor]

You mean a station that throws you a longass distance? Not really.

I think some kind of 4x in that vein would be interesting. pre-built mass relays, sublight speed craft to discover them, maybe factions with that unique tech or something... some kind of way to lend more geography to galaxies...

 

[Poodlestrike]

I think some kind of 4x in that vein would be interesting. pre-built mass relays, sublight speed craft to discover them, maybe factions with that unique tech or something... some kind of way to lend more geography to galaxies...

Ahhh, yeah. Not at launch. Almost certainly going to be a mod at some point.

 

[spiritfox]

I think some kind of 4x in that vein would be interesting. pre-built mass relays, sublight speed craft to discover them, maybe factions with that unique tech or something... some kind of way to lend more geography to galaxies...

So sorta a mix between wormholes and hyperlanes?

 

[GrandHarrier]

It's utterly mindboggling they didn't ship the game with stacking penalties, lol. I mean I guess having micro-swarms isn't much more interesting. But at least that might incentivize having more than one fleet.

Have a Macross Cannon style attack and you'll want to spread out more to avoid a death beam destroying a chunk of your fleet.

 

[Anno]

Those changes all sound very promising. Wider access to space is sorely needed, and I'm glad they're paying attention to some of the visual nuances I think the game needs with civilians ships bustling about doing something or another. I actually hope that's the focus of an entire expansion at some point. I want my home gravity well just bustling with small ships flying about, bring back minerals from the mining stations, observing planets that had research etc. Just little ones smaller even than corvettes that make it seem like more of a living area and conversely make far off space feel much more isolating and lonely.

 

[Ucchedavāda]

OK, I think the AI rebellion event might be a bit bugged:

Also, it turns out that when you beat the living daylights out of a Fallen Empire, then suddenly the rest of the galaxy gets a rather scared of you.

something like Civ V Gods and King's spread of religion is what I'm envisioning...

I have to confess that I've never gotten around to play that, but I'd just like something that adds life and character to the universe, without nessesarily being something that the player has direct control over.

 

[Jintor]

So sorta a mix between wormholes and hyperlanes?

As I recall Mass relays commonly needed a station at both ends to be viable... Though you could just activate one and fling yourself into the void uncertain if you could get back.

 

[Sinatar]

OK, I think the AI rebellion event might be a bit bugged:
.

Yea the big end game event on my current game is an AI rebellion. Happened in another empire and they lost like 3 star systems to the AI and that was it. They are a complete non entity.

 

[ZZMitch]

Imagine if there was a spiral galaxy setup, but there was an "inner ring" that you could access but not colonize or build inside of. You "hop on" then "hop off" at various places along the configuration. Good luck justifying that in the lore, but map wise it would allow for a similar sort of concept, where you could in principle be "land locked" but there were also star systems that had access to this interiour hyperlane network.

Stellaris offering 3 kinds of FTL is an interesting idea, but I would contend probably to its detriment. Not only in the sense that it's challenging to balance well, but also in that kind of throws out a lot of tactical or strategic considerations if you can't be sure of what your enemies are going to have access to. Warp drive is extremely boring, while Wormhole and Hyperdrive both have very interesting properties that impact strategic thinking - you have to defend wormhole stations, and you have chokepoints that you can defend with hyperlanes. I think hyperdrive is probably the best/most interesting from a game design perspective.

A lot of the crappy nature of fighting once you actually get to the gravity well would be fixed if there was a predictable way to tell where people would show up when they dropped out of FTL. You'd need an overhaul for that probably, limiting the number of places FTL travelers could appear to a few per system, perhaps even with fixed exit points when coming from certain directions.

Yeah, I am thinking about going Hyperlane FTL only for my future games. I like how it adds some "geography" to the galaxy and is more interesting in terms of choke-points and things like that.

 

[Haly]

I';m trying out wormhole tech in a game and it's very interesting the ramifications the wormhole stations have. In an MP game, though, I would probably push for single FTL type. Warp is just too weak.

Sometimes I do split up my fleets when I'm expecting war on two fronts, for example, if I'm fighting an alliance of 2-3 empires. Usually they don't doomstack and I felt obligated to keep some of my fleet on reserve as it were, but I agree it just doesn't happen nearly organically enough.

Maybe a penalty for travel time?

 

[DBT85]

A 10 tile Holy World? Not even worth it.

If its going to get you some good resources from expanding your space, of course it is.

 

[pigeon]

I think some kind of 4x in that vein would be interesting. pre-built mass relays, sublight speed craft to discover them, maybe factions with that unique tech or something... some kind of way to lend more geography to galaxies...

When I made the Mass Effect races I just made them all have hyperdrive. Hyperdrive is basically mass relays in that they're instantaneous and have a long distance but you can't actually build more of them -- you're dependent on the existing ones made by precursor civilizations.

Sure, you can't destroy hyperdrive lanes, but that's because it would pretty much break the game.

 

[pigeon]

Tentatively happy with the patch plans. The ethics divergence bug really is a huge, gamebreaking issue and I'm glad it's first on their list, since it is apparently supposed to be a big part of gameplay.

UI stuff is a good priority, I agree that combat results are kind of a joke and the add to sector UI must be the least successful UI Paradox has ever done. Glad they're working on sector AI and fixing late game crises, as well as taking a pass on corvettes.

If they want all four ship classes to be meaningful at endgame they really need to sketch out their intentions clearly. They seem to have gone kind of Eve-style (Scandinavian cross-pollination) in which case they could do something like:

* Corvettes -- kill unscreened large ships that can't carry small weapons
* Destroyers -- screen for larger ships, kill corvettes en masse with lots of small weapons (probably need lategame tech that somehow improves this so that destroyers don't completely trash corvette fleets in the early game)
* Cruisers -- ships of the line, best DPS, low access to small weapons
* Battleships -- command ships, high powered auras, big weapons, no access to smalls and not much medium

This still means that corvettes are mostly irrelevant if you're building your fleets properly though.

I really like the border access change -- I actually thought it was WAI and stupid that you pretty much couldn't finish any quests without going to war or forming alliances with alien races, I'm glad they're fixing that. I also like temporary alliances and diplomatic incidents.

Long-term, internal politics, federation politics, midgame events, and strategic resource power boosts sound like the right direction. Right now a lot of these systems just don't really work -- sectors are clearly dumb if you can shove everything into one sector, strategic resources aren't really worth the mindshare of thinking about them, etc. I'd also really like the ability to trade for strategic resources other people don't know they have, although not sure how best to make that work diplomatically.

Unfortunately I'm now getting that feeling that I'd rather wait for the first patch before playing more Stellaris....

 

[spiritfox]

If its going to get you some good resources from expanding your space, of course it is.

Not when the Fallen Empire is just north of it.

 

[megalowho]

i need to play a hyperlane empire to see what that's all about but I think strategically speaking that's the most interesting.

I really enjoyed the territorial strategy of hyperlanes and a 4 arm spiral galaxy in my first game. Lanes that jump from one arm to the next end up being desirable choke points, and having set paths around the stars provides a sense of direction during exploration and plotting expansion priorities.

 

[John Dunbar]

this game really needs to have quests/event chains to happen in mid and late game. they add some nice flavour, but there is really nothing like that once the mid game grind begins. the only event chain in the situation log is the precursor thing, but i don't think i have found any of the artifacts after the first few years.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

this game really needs to have quests/event chains to happen in mid and late game. they add some nice flavour, but there is really nothing like that once the mid game grind begins. the only event chain in the situation log is the precursor thing, but i don't think i have found any of the artifacts after the first few years.

In the latest dev diary, they said they basically ran out of time to make midgame events.

 

[bobeth]

Take a look at Quills videos to get you started.

Really you want to get your science ship to survey your immediate system and any nearby for credits, minerals. Anomalies and special projects will pop up. Anomalies have a fail risk so decide as you like. You need minerals to build EVERYTHING so getting your mineral production up first means you can then build everything else like research station and mining stations on energy credits.

Conflict will usually be fairly minimal for a while so you shouldn't need to worry about your fleet too much.

If you only have a small amount of minerals, don;t build a mining station on a planet that will only give you +1 minerals if you have another with +4 sitting around waiting.

Doing special projects will give you a lot of science points which will help your research and open up some little quest stuff.

Influence is going to cause you pain, so enter into alliances only if needed (they cost influence) and don't build too many Outposts. You need influence to get new leaders, science officers, admirals, to build outposts and then to maintain them etc. Early game it can be quite regular to have under 100 influence most of the time.

Enjoy!

Thank you very much, off I go then!

 

[AbortedWalrusFetus]

Man, I really feel like I blew it with early decisions in my first game. I played maybe 6-10 hours total and I am thinking about starting over. For example, when I got the quest to build a frontier outpost I just used it on a system right next to my home system, then another one slightly further away from that. All within the natural growth area of my home system anyway. I also didn't continuously recruit leaders and had a mass die off and basically can't replace them.

 

[SocksAndShoes]

Man, I really feel like I blew it with early decisions in my first game. I played maybe 6-10 hours total and I am thinking about starting over. For example, when I got the quest to build a frontier outpost I just used it on a system right next to my home system, then another one slightly further away from that. All within the natural growth area of my home system anyway. I also didn't continuously recruit leaders and had a mass die off and basically can't replace them.

This happened to me during my first game. I had to start over about 5 hours in because the lack of influence killed my progress.

 

[pigeon]

Man, I really feel like I blew it with early decisions in my first game. I played maybe 6-10 hours total and I am thinking about starting over. For example, when I got the quest to build a frontier outpost I just used it on a system right next to my home system, then another one slightly further away from that. All within the natural growth area of my home system anyway. I also didn't continuously recruit leaders and had a mass die off and basically can't replace them.

It's way too easy to fuck yourself with frontier outposts. They're extremely expensive in every way that matters and the ongoing maintenance screws you in a very quiet way.

My best suggestion for a fix would be giving you a bunch of influence back when you dismantle a frontier outpost.

edit: Actually, my actual best suggestion is to jack up influence income a lot and make leaders actually have an influence upkeep.

 

[AbortedWalrusFetus]

This happened to me during my first game. I had to start over about 5 hours in because the lack of influence killed my progress.

Yeah I was just recklessly using influence as I got it, lots of unnecessary frontier outposts and the like, and the mineral increasing policy. I want to start over now that I sort of know what's going on because it was a pretty big mistake. I actually weathered the worst of my leader die off, but in general it feels like I'm in poor shape.

One question I have is, can you colonize planets not inside your empire's borders?

 

[pigeon]

Yeah I was just recklessly using influence as I got it, lots of unnecessary frontier outposts and the like, and the mineral increasing policy. I want to start over now that I sort of know what's going on because it was a pretty big mistake. I actually weathered the worst of my leader die off, but in general it feels like I'm in poor shape.

One question I have is, can you colonize planets not inside your empire's borders?

Yeah. Actually my first colony ship generally goes to the best planet that's nearby but not in my borders. You can always come back for the planets you already own.

 

[Wyndstryker]

One question I have is, can you colonize planets not inside your empire's borders?

Yup. Colony ships is one of the best ways to expand your borders.

 

[Quixzlizx]

Yeah I was just recklessly using influence as I got it, lots of unnecessary frontier outposts and the like, and the mineral increasing policy. I want to start over now that I sort of know what's going on because it was a pretty big mistake. I actually weathered the worst of my leader die off, but in general it feels like I'm in poor shape.

One question I have is, can you colonize planets not inside your empire's borders?

Yes.

 

[Tacitus_]

Yeah I was just recklessly using influence as I got it, lots of unnecessary frontier outposts and the like, and the mineral increasing policy. I want to start over now that I sort of know what's going on because it was a pretty big mistake. I actually weathered the worst of my leader die off, but in general it feels like I'm in poor shape.

One question I have is, can you colonize planets not inside your empire's borders?

Yeah. Better to expand that way so you don't need to build Outposts.

 

[SmiteOfHand]

Man, I really feel like I blew it with early decisions in my first game. I played maybe 6-10 hours total and I am thinking about starting over. For example, when I got the quest to build a frontier outpost I just used it on a system right next to my home system, then another one slightly further away from that. All within the natural growth area of my home system anyway. I also didn't continuously recruit leaders and had a mass die off and basically can't replace them.

FWIW if I know I am going to reset I try and use it as an opportunity to try stuff that is way out there. Because generally mid to late game you will be naturally less risky in a normal game unless you save scum like crazy.

Just get weird, you're gonna wipe it anyway. And on rare occasion you figure out something crazy and turn it around and it feels awesome.

 

[AbortedWalrusFetus]

Man, I definitely feel like I goofed with the outposts now. Definitely going to have to restart. I don't know why I never tried colonizing stuff before it was in my territory.

 

[pigeon]

Man, I definitely feel like I goofed with the outposts now. Definitely going to have to restart. I don't know why I never tried colonizing stuff before it was in my territory.

Don't forget that you can also blow up frontier outposts after you've built them and at least get the income back.

 

[AbortedWalrusFetus]

Don't forget that you can also blow up frontier outposts after you've built them and at least get the income back.

Yeah, I blew up two of them, but I think I built 4 in total. It was basically using them to expand rather than colonies at all, cause I didn't know you could build colonies outside your territory.

It doesn't feel like a waste for me cause I learned most of the mechanics, but now I just know I can do so much better so I want to start over. I would probably be fine continuing to play this game, but it would just bug me knowing I made blatant mistakes.

 

[John Dunbar]

so is it a bug or what that frontier outposts don't cost maintenance when inside sectors? since sectors don't have to pay influence for capital buildings, maybe it is intentional that frontier posts don't cost either.

but sectors are such a mess i'll take anything i can get from them. feels gamey as fuck though, but it's not like you can spam them with the 200 upfront cost.

 

[SocksAndShoes]

Yeah, I blew up two of them, but I think I built 4 in total. It was basically using them to expand rather than colonies at all, cause I didn't know you could build colonies outside your territory.

Wait....WHAT!?

I had no idea you could do this. Son of a...

 

[John Dunbar]

Wait....WHAT!?

I had no idea you could do this. Son of a...

your giant neighbours didn't make you suspect something was up?

 

[SmiteOfHand]

your giant neighbours didn't make you suspect something was up?

They are expanding at ludicrous speed! How do I research plaid?

It is always the little discoveries that feel like the biggest, isn't it. Glad you know now!

▽ it happens to everyone, don't sweat it. I went the longest time before realizing there are different hull loadouts if you start a new ship design. I was always just editing.

 

[SocksAndShoes]

your giant neighbours didn't make you suspect something was up?

I quit my first game due to my aforementioned influence mismanagement, and just recently started my 2nd game so I haven't really made it out of the early game I guess.

This is my first 4X game in a long, long time so I fully expect to make a lot of mistakes.

 

[Wyndstryker]

Interesting...I threw a frontier outpost in a vassal empire and suddenly a few of the systems went unsurveyed

Time to do this everywhere with vassals.

 

[theRizzle]

This is my first Paradox game (beyond dipping my toes into CK2 for about an hour before fleeing in terror), is there anything I should really know that will be difficult to figure out for myself? I have played a ton of 4x so I know how the genre works, I'm looking more about specifics to this title.

I've watched my little brother play a ton of CK2 and EU4 so I have an idea of how this style works.

 

[bonesmccoy]

I got caught in a weird 'bug' in my 1st game:

I had a celestial alliance with Space Birds. Space Birds decide to call a war against their rival, Space Bugs. Somehow between me accepting the war and taking the 1st system, the Space Bugs become a vassal of another empire. Once our fleets arrive at the Space Bugs homeworld, we can't do anything, because it's all now under control of that other empire, whom were technically not at war with. My guess is that there's a timing loophole when certain rules are being applied to vassalization and declarations of war.

My 2nd game is going much better. I ended up in the top left corner of the regular galaxy. After expanding to the available area, I found a HUGE untapped region behind the 4 other empires I was abutting. The problem was that of those 4 empires, the only ones I could beat were the White Space Birds, the 1st xenos I'd met, and whom had been my closest friends to that point. They surrendered after I defeated their measly fleet, and now the 'United Earth Empire' (UN build with some small changes) is expanding rapidly.

so is it a bug or what that frontier outposts don't cost maintenance when inside sectors? since sectors don't have to pay influence for capital buildings, maybe it is intentional that frontier posts don't cost either.

but sectors are such a mess i'll take anything i can get from them. feels gamey as fuck though, but it's not like you can spam them with the 200 upfront cost.

I hope this stays around for a while. I've been blobbing like a fiend because of it.

 

[Ucchedavāda]

so is it a bug or what that frontier outposts don't cost maintenance when inside sectors? since sectors don't have to pay influence for capital buildings, maybe it is intentional that frontier posts don't cost either.

I was thinking this as well, but there does seem to be some upkeep, as I managed to get back a couple of influence per month by dismantling several outposts, though the total upkeep was less than the number of outposts at that point. Perhaps the upkeep is significantly reduced, but not zero, if the outpost is within your borders.

 

[Ozium]

in a federation and mid to late game have literally nothing to do but fast forward through research until it's my time to be president and then I declare war on someone.. the diplomacy sucks, like why can't I persuade people to leave their alliances or cause an insurrection in an empire I want to fight so that they are splitting resources?

I have max energy credits and a steady positive flow, I have more minerals than I can use and I have max influence and nothing to really use that on either...

pls fix

 

[KiraFA37]

I really hope they put some fix in for trade in the first patch. Sometimes it just like the request doesn't get sent. Oh you wanna trade 352 credits do ya? Can't do that mate thats to big an order try doing it in 3 seperate deals and even then it doesn't get sent...

 

[DBT85]

The Galactic British Empire is doing well with another colony, now 7 under my direct control. And soon I should be able to get 9. With a new outpost going up as well a bunch on new systems are coming into my empire.

Just need about 75 influence to change my govt type to get the +4 planets.

I told an empire I'd guarantee their freedom. Not realising that when some dork starts a war with them it drags me in. Fortunately the enemy is on the other side of the empire I'm protecting and there are about 6 of us. Might send some ships in just to get some salvage as it's a fairly sizable empire.

10% borders will also be done soon which will be really useful to join up my spread out planets and secure more space.

Also using the mods that make the research window taller and the ship designer menu much better.

 

[Grief.exe]

What's the new meta for fleets?

like why can't I persuade people to leave their alliances or cause an insurrection in an empire I want to fight so that they are splitting resources?

You essentially have to get involved with your alliances early on or the good races will team up with other races in their proximity and nothing can be done.

Federations seem like a trap.

 

[Ozium]

What's the new meta for fleets?



You essentially have to get involved with your alliances early on or the good races will team up with other races in their proximity and nothing can be done.

Federations seem like a trap.

I formed an alliance and then a federation early on, my empire is like a long strip and all the people below me on the map are in my federation, but all the people above us have formed alliances and I would like them to leave theirs and join me to fight their neighbors, but you can't really do anything like that..

the federation isn't really a trap, there are some drawbacks like you can't declare war unless you are the leading empire (it rotates every 5 years) but when you do you get the military support of all federated empires and their vassals.. last time I was leader I declared war on this huge empire west of us with the end result being that I vassalized them.. the other members were on board right away because they don't like that empire's attitude.. and it was basically 4 empires + our vassals vs 1 and we crushed them and I have a new vassal. soon I will integrate them into my empire and add like 20 star systems to it

I just wish there was more to do w/ diplomacy or exploration in the mid-late game, as it is now I just build up my fleet and research tech while waiting for my turn to declare war on someone... unless someone else in the federation declares a war, which then I'll fight...

 

[Lister]

I formed an alliance and then a federation early on, my empire is like a long strip and all the people below me on the map are in my federation, but all the people above us have formed alliances and I would like them to leave theirs and join me to fight their neighbors, but you can't really do anything like that..

the federation isn't really a trap, there are some drawbacks like you can't declare war unless you are the leading empire (it rotates every 5 years) but when you do you get the military support of all federated empires and their vassals.. last time I was leader I declared war on this huge empire west of us with the end result being that I vassalized them.. the other members were on board right away because they don't like that empire's attitude.. and it was basically 4 empires + our vassals vs 1 and we crushed them and I have a new vassal. soon I will integrate them into my empire and add like 20 star systems to it

I just wish there was more to do w/ diplomacy or exploration in the mid-late game, as it is now I just build up my fleet and research tech while waiting for my turn to declare war on someone... unless someone else in the federation declares a war, which then I'll fight...

That last dev diary implies that we won't be seeing some of that mid-late game beefing up until Late June.

 

[Leezard]

One of my vassal states is completely carrying my military.

I have around 8k in military strength, but this vassal state that only has one or two planets somehow has around 30k military strength and follows me wherever my main army goes.¨

edit: wait, are blue ships general vassal state ships? I thought they were from my blue vassal state.

 

[CloudWolf]

Why the hell did Paradox program the AI allies to always follow the player armies? It's annoying as shit.