Agreed.
The guy planted on a wet spot created two seconds before he stepped on it. Shit happens.
Steph Curry Supernova
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The guy planted on a wet spot created two seconds before he stepped on it. Shit happens.
It was unnecessary for LeBron to play tonight (even if they lost...so?). Would you have the same argument then? What about for Duncan, Parker, Ginobli, Aldridge, Leonard today? Are we really going to call out every team in every situation a player gets injured when it isn't game 7 of some series?
If true, that is dumb and unrealistic and I could go back through every injury ever and say it wasn't necessary. If false, why single out the Warriors/Curry?
Players play if healthy and well-rested. There really isn't an argument against that.
purvispisgah
Member
Was Curry healthy?
Yes? The injury had nothing to do with his ankles. Starting to feel like I'm just being trolled at this point as there is no logical, intelligent argument to be made for him not to be playing.
Elfforkusu
Member
Not to play devil's advocate too much here, since I do think it was a freak accident. But:
If all those things are true (the second one I'm assuming -- I don't know one way or another), then the previous injury did have an effect. That is, rather than him injuring his ankle and his knee, his ankle was immobile and he injured his knee worse than he would've under normal circumstances.
This is not really an argument to hold him out (I would go with: wear and tear, don't push a nagging injury and risk re-injuring it), it's a hindsight one. But there it is.
It was Curry's right ankle, correct? And it was taped up pretty good? And he hurt his right knee?
If all those things are true (the second one I'm assuming -- I don't know one way or another), then the previous injury did have an effect. That is, rather than him injuring his ankle and his knee, his ankle was immobile and he injured his knee worse than he would've under normal circumstances.
This is not really an argument to hold him out (I would go with: wear and tear, don't push a nagging injury and risk re-injuring it), it's a hindsight one. But there it is.
Most NBA players tape their ankles. It was a freak accident that could have happened to any player in the league. In fact, Curry weighs maybe 185lbs...can you imagine the damage that same fall does to LeBron or other heavy player? Maybe the Cavs should hold LeBron out game 1 of next series since it isn't crucial and there is a chance something bad could happen that we can 20/20 hindsight second guess. It is just ridiculous (not you...just the general narrative).
crazy monkey
Banned
i will be sad to see him go for rest of the season. SA are too good and probably will take the cup if not GS cavs will go to final i think.
I don't know why you have to be so patronizing in your answer. The fact is that a lot of people criticized the Warrior's path to the title last season citing exactly what I stated. You are free to argue that playing the Cavaliers at full strength and playing the Spurs wouldn't have made a difference, but that still doesn't change public perception.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Being healthy enough to play doesn't necessarily mean he was completely healthy and recovered. He could've been 70% good for all we know, and we may never truly know until after the postseason is over with and people are more likely to not be as tight-lipped about things.
Some may argue a 70% Curry is low enough of a risk, but (for one more game at least) being conservative and taking the long view of wanting to be sure he's fine for the rest of the playoffs wouldn't be that bad of an idea either.
And many of us saying he shouldn't have played isn't because we think it contributed to his knee injury, just that his playing at all possibly less than 100% just further exposes him to general injury. And his poor performance may not be completely due to rust if he was less than 100%, you can't rule it out completely just because he's healthy enough to play.
Just the perception of the ill-informed, un-observant and biased (and, yes, people pissed that LeBron has been eclipsed). I don't mean to patronize but I have limited patience with poor arguments.
So, how did that game go in Cleveland this year with the Cavs at full strength? All the doubters can look there for starters.
LyleLanley
Banned
Are people seriously arguing that he shouldn't have played? The guy was healthy until he slipped on a pool of sweat, it was a freak accident.
elrechazado
Banned
Lebron is so universally criticized it's not even funny. Steph is on a nonstop love train. In what universe that you live is the opposite happening? Talk about poor arguments...
Oh, we're talking about this year now? I could have sworn we were discussing the 2014-2015 season, not the 2015-2016. My bad.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
He wasn't playing well either. Whether that was because of rust or him not being 100%, who knows. Yes, the knee injury has nothing to do with the ankle. I just think that if your team is good enough to win without him, why bother playing him and risk either aggravating the injury or just general injury exposure? If the series ends up tied 2-2, then you're likely playing him regardless. If they were up 3-0, he probably doesn't play at all even if he was healthy enough to play. Would people have the same perspective if GS was up 3-0 and Curry ended up playing and getting hurt the same way?
Expect to see even more of this sort of discussion to come up if the Clippers end up bouncing GS in the next round.
From what NBA players will tell you, almost nobody is 100% at this point in the season. Everyone if fighting various pain, strains, sprains and swelling to differing extents - there is a reason massive ice baths are a common thing.
I have a sneaking suspicion that many of these people (not necessarily you) would be all over the Warriors if this was tied 2-2 and Curry hadn't played when the he, the team and the doctors had all given the green light. He was healthy enough and rested...he should play by any standard we can imagine.
There are also people saying "this was a cold year in my home town...global warming is BS!". Bad narratives are bad narratives.
Monochromaticx
Member
it sounds like there are too many games in the season and not enough break time before the playoffs.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
And on the flip side, if they were up 3-0 and he played and ended up getting hurt in a freak manner like this past game you'd be seeing nearly everyone asking why they even bothered to have his play, even if he was healthy enough and rested.
It is well known that sports teams often don't tell the complete truth when it comes to injury reports. Taking what coaches and players say at face value on whether someone is healthy enough to play or not is naive - players often get into games where they probably should have sit for that extra game. Hell, we've seen it with Curry in past playoff years where he tweaks something, is good enough to play, but isn't nearly as effective. Now, he couldn't afford to sit those particular games given the circumstances. I'm just saying in this particular series, he could've sat for this one. They easily won without any real contribution from him this game, barely missed out on winning the previous time, and also won handily earlier in the regular season against Houston without him..
Did you miss the post where I talked about how he wasn't 100% healthy?
Because he wasn't, by his own admission Friday to the local reporter who then wrote and tweeted the conversation where he said he still lacked change of direction and explosion but was going to make his case to the staff to play.
Had this been 3-0 tonight I almost guarantee Curry is given another couple days to finish healing up more completely.
LyleLanley
Banned
If he's healthy enough to play he should play whether the series is 2-1, 2-2, 3-0 or whatever. The whole team is better off when their best player is out there making the series shorter.
Healthy enough to play is why for instance my Pelicans ended up historically injured.
Jrue was just healthy enough to play last season and had a set back when he shouldn't of came back. Evans was healthy enough this season and ended up re-damaging his knee. Qpon was just healthy enough to talk his ways past doctors and ended up missing the entire season chasing a meaningless race for the 8 seed.
Healthy enough is really not how teams operate anymore and for good reason. Based on the interview I read Friday, the Warriors frankly shocked me by playing him tonight.
Did you miss my post where NBA players almost all say nobody is 100%.
Should LeBron have sat today? Aldridge? Duncan? Yes or no? They were all taking a chance being out there right? Second guessing and perfect hindsight are a couple of my pet peeves (sorry).
Yes players are sore or have some minor nagging injuries.
Lack of explosion and inability to effectively change direction on an ankle that just got injured is a little more then just some muscle soreness or fatigue. Especielly for a frigging PG. Let's not conflate fairly different risk levels here to make a false equivalency.
And it's not hindsight guessing. I straight up said in multiple places that the Warriors were silly to panic and start Curry when he is clearly still not game day ready. The rockets are not a real threat, rest him up as best as can and get him ready for worse case scenario game 5 and best case scenario next series.
And you are basing all that on an interview given on Friday? Please. Maybe Curry wasn't even being truthful (I would have been sandbagging for sure)? Maybe the doctors and trainers and Curry know more than we do? We should assume the worst because...reasons...?
I'm not offering false equivalencies but just saying that nobody is 100%. Are you the expert who draws the line? Duncan was taking a risk today (he has had a lot of nagging injuries). Should he have played?
And we are back to ignoring the fact that the injury wasn't even related to his ankle but a more nebulous "he shouldn't have been out there!". This is a ridiculous level of second guessing.
We are all speculating here about pre-game health, let's keep that in mind.
And again, quit conflating obviously different risk factors. If Duncan was still having problems from a recent ankle injury you sit him and Pop would of. Same goes for Aldridge. 3-0 in a series against a middling playoff team and they wouldn't risk it tonight.
Had this been a 3-0 series I doubt you see Curry. Like 99% sure, do you?? The risk isn't worth it.
The ankle likely wasn't a contributing factor to the knee injury but his presence was. Should he have played given the reports from Friday? To me no. The Warriors saw the risk/reward differently and made the call to let him play.
For reference the reporter is their local sideline reporter who watched the entire practice and spoke to Curry after. Curry has no reason to lie about the severity of his issues to her. At least not in that direction.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
You can't have it both ways - they say he was healthy enough to play in the game so we should believe them, but we shouldn't believe what they said last Friday because it was gamesmanship? But the opposite scenario with Friday being closer to the truth and today being not completely truthful where Curry may have been borderline to play isn't a valid possibility?
Wait, is this serious? You legitimately believe LeBron has been eclipsed as the best player? I respect your opinion and all, but Curry isn't even better than Durant.
elrechazado
Banned
Huh? Two time in a row mvp and won the title last year. Set wins record greatest of all time regular season. By almost any metric having an all time great season individually.
Curry is way ahead of LeBron and Durant.
I mean I do to. Hes aided by a perfect supporting cast and the perfect system to maximize him but it doesn't diminish his achievements.
Curry has had a historically great offensive year leading his team to an all time great record and he has really picked it up defensively since Kerr and Adams have worked together and motivated him to commit to it.
He's the best in the game right now imo.
The two MVPs do have a ton of merit to them but that award is usually handed to the best player on the best team. I don't know anyone that would argue against Golden State being the best team in the last two seasons.
My point deals with recency bias in sports. Curry had a hell of a season, but is this it? Is this as good as he will ever be? Or can he keep the streak alive for a few more seasons? If he can, I'd definitely crown him as the best player.
If we're talking strictly about longevity and achievements, LeBron and Durant to an extent are better than him in my book.
Best player right now isn't a career achievement though.
It's an evaluation of a period of time, typically like a season. He may never again do what he did this year but it wouldn't make me stop thinking he was the best player this particular season.
Fans and their obsession with longevity and legacy is so, so weird to me. Curry is the best player in the NBA. Live in the moment breh. He just had one of the greatest individual seasons of all time.
I mean Kobe has 5 titles and numerous great seasons. Was he still a better player than Curry this year? Tim Duncan is maybe the greatest power forward in NBA history. Is he better than Curry?
Lebron is a top 5 player ever in my mind, but right now, in 2016, Curry is better.
Like others have said, the blame that should be placed on the Warriors is in not having the killer instinct to win Game 3. Curry would easily be sitting Game 4 if it was 3-0.
Houston is a team with no heart (other than Beverly) that already showed in Games 1 and 2 that they were willing to roll over and die against a Curry-less Warriors. The stinker of a Game 3 played by the Warriors really is inexcusable.
Houston is a team with no heart (other than Beverly) that already showed in Games 1 and 2 that they were willing to roll over and die against a Curry-less Warriors. The stinker of a Game 3 played by the Warriors really is inexcusable.
Well there's no arguing that Curry was the best player this season. Seems odd to say that Curry 'eclipsed' Lebron though in that context, else you're implying that Lebron was 'eclipsed' every season he didn't win MVP. Great players have great individual seasons sometimes.
See that's the thing with all the Current Best Player arguments, they all devolve into semantics arguments with ever-changing criteria that participants can never truly agree on, so the discussions ultimately lead nowhere.
Incidentally, I certainly have no doubt Curry has the ability to repeat at least a reasonable facsimile of this season more than a few times going forward, but I don't trust his health in the slightest. Even discounting this freak knee injury he's a ticking time bomb. Health is a skill after all.
ss_lemonade
Member
Was that Donatas' sweat Curry stepped on, causing him to slip?
I'm confused who or what you are arguing.
Mine was pretty simple. The current best player to me personally is Curry. I typically look at the current season to judge that. Next season it may be someone else.
Not sure where all this semantics stuff and 'eclipsed' thing is stemming from?
Shouldn't be any argument about the current best player tbh. Shocking to me that people still haven't absorbed what Curry did this year. Like it's not even close. And this is a year after he won the MVP and averaged 28, 6 and 5 in the postseason en route to a title.
Yes. Harden tripped him on accident, D-Mo slid across the floor, and then Curry planted where D-Mo has just been, causing his left foot and leg to slip.
Sorry I thought you and offtopic were the same person for some reason.
I definitely think there is still some trouble with some fans accepting that the often smallest guy on the basketball court is the best player and a jump shooter at that.
Two notions old timers have ingrained as never being ideal.
Yeah, that's usually what the MVP award is for. Like I said earlier, I wouldn't disagree that he's been the best player individually the last two seasons.
Fans care about longevity and legacy because injuries can happen anytime. Look at Derrick Rose. Youngest MVP in history and his career has been plagued by injuries since 2012. Yet, he's been an All-Star the same amount of times as Curry.
Look, all I'm saying is that Curry hasn't been as good as LeBron or Durant for an extended period of time. These last two seasons have been really good in a vacuum but if his season ends tomorrow, it might be one of the biggest what-ifs of all time.
I really hope that his injury isn't serious so he can hopefully be back this postseason because let's be honest, the playoffs wouldn't be fun without him.
Sure, but none of that is related to the fact that he's the best player in the NBA. Like clearly the best.
Right now? For sure. No question. The reason I started this conversation is that I disagree with the notion that Curry has eclipsed LeBron all time, which was the assumption of my original post.
Oh, well in that case I agree.
elrechazado
Banned
Well sure...that really feels like a straw man though. Body of work post-career is a different question.
Again, that's just how I took it. If we're talking about best player in a season, LeBron hasn't been that since 2013. If we're talking about losing in the finals, his record is 2-4. I'm pretty sure we're accustomed to him losing in the finals by now.
Maybe this is a whole big misunderstanding and I apologize if it is, but that's just what I inferred from the original context.
Frozenprince
Banned
Steph Curry hit 400 3 point shots while shooting a ridiculous percentage and averaging 30.0PPG
Yes he's eclipsed Bron and Durant, he did that ages ago.
Yes he's eclipsed Bron and Durant, he did that ages ago.
Not everything needs blame - some things just suck.
There's no principle that says when you lose a game one of your players gets wiped out.
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