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[A Link to the Past]

yeah that's nice - but not at all the argument i n this thread

mental illness semantics aside, you have people who are acting. clearly. if you want to go on about the people who are actually seeking help and running into a brick wall in a different thread then by all means go and do that my tone and that of others will be dramatically different. but don't go on trying to talk about those who need help can't get it in the thread about people actively looking for kids to molest.

just sayin it might help

The criticism is actively related to the view that videos like these are harmful to those trying to seek help, which is why it is being discussed here.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Also no matter how society changes out paedophiles will always be ostracized for one simple reason. People don't want them near their kids. It's kinda shitty, but it's just a fact of life. Help can be made available but it will always be done anonymously.

You seriously cannot blame people for not wanting pedophiles near their kids though.

 

[Izuna]

yeah that's nice - but not at all the argument i n this thread

mental illness semantics aside, you have people who are acting. clearly. if you want to go on about the people who are actually seeking help and running into a brick wall in a different thread then by all means go and do that my tone and that of others will be dramatically different. but don't go on trying to talk about those who need help can't get it in the thread about people actively looking for kids to molest.

just sayin it might help

Have you watched the show btw?

Because this guy is doing it just to shame them and inform the police. I don't believe many of them will get arrested or such. He wants them to be publicly shamed, not helped. Of course it is sick, but like the guy who committed suicide, it can be tragic. I imagine there are people who will end up on this show who otherwise wouldn't have posed a danger to any other child who wasn't honeypotting, as wanting to cooperate in the act. He's replying to them in some way that made them feel safe to commit the crime. He could be simply linking them to a hotline to seek help instead as soon as they message.

I doubt he knows much about what causes paedophilia, if it's hard to live with or not. No one here really does.

You seriously cannot blame people for not wanting pedophiles near their kids though.

Of course. I personally get enraged when I walk through Akihabara, Tokyo. But the only scientific example that has been posted here so far is one that showed that a brain tumour causes the affliction.

I don't know why lolicon and paedophilia is somehow separated on the internet but in the UK it isn't, and I agree with that. But even so there is a reason why the Police doesn't do this sort of thing...

 

[DY_nasty]

The criticism is actively related to the view that videos like these are harmful to those trying to seek help, which is why it is being discussed here.

should be even more simple

act on those urges and get publicly humiliated, hit with a jail sentence, have your life ruined, etc (in case nothing else proves to be a significant deterrent)

should get help

imo

Have you watched the show btw?

Because this guy is doing it just to shame them and inform the police. I don't believe many of them will get arrested or such. He wants them to be publicly shamed, not helped. Of course it is sick, but like the guy who committed suicide, it can be tragic. I imagine there are people who will end up on this show who otherwise wouldn't have posed a danger to any other child who wasn't honeypotting, as wanting to cooperate in the act. He's replying to them in some way that made them feel safe to commit the crime. He could be simply linking them to a hotline to seek help instead as soon as they message.

I doubt he knows much about what causes paedophilia, if it's hard to live with or not. No one here really does.

you gotta spin better than that

also - a hotline isn't taking a threat off the street. which is what these people are since they're actually out there looking.

 

[A Link to the Past]

should be even more simple

act on those urges and get publicly humiliated, hit with a jail sentence, have your life ruined, etc (in case nothing else proves to be a significant deterrent)

should get help

imo


you gotta spin better than that

I'm only talking about those who are resisting those urges. If we did more research, if we reached out more to help people with these urges, we would have fewer molestations.

EDIT: I don't know why you keep suggesting that pedophiles actively want to molest children, or are pursuing them. Like the This American Life shows, most pedophiles are not actively pursuing children.

 

[DrFurbs]

DrFubbs suggested that pedophilia is a sexual preference

Another user who I won't specify because they apologized for it, suggested that treatment was a waste of money

Furbs brah, DrFurbs.

 

[DY_nasty]

I'm only talking about those who are resisting those urges. If we did more research, if we reached out more to help people with these urges, we would have fewer molestations.

and if this thread were about those people, then the tone would be very different

its not though. so lumping the ones actively looking for crimes to commit with the people who are working to deal with those issues does what?

 

[Silphonica]

In the UK there a plethora of ways to gain help for a variety of conditions whether it be inappropriate feelings, joblessness or homelessness.

This line of reasoning doesn't apply here, some of those things have nothing to do with pedophilia, plus it doesn't address the fact that it has nothing to do with what the guy is saying about making people feel less able to seek help not if there is help available.

You are right about one thing though, that reasoning is not backed up by much research, thats the problem about all of this though, there is no research to support any side of the arguments claims.

Either side are throwing rocks that in reality, they have no idea what the fuck they are talking about.

 

[A Link to the Past]

and if this thread were about those people, then the tone would be very different

its not though. so lumping the ones actively looking for crimes to commit with the people who are working to deal with those issues does what?

I've explained it to you - I am addressing the harm the video does, not the people in it.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

I'm only talking about those who are resisting those urges. If we did more research, if we reached out more to help people with these urges, we would have fewer molestations.

EDIT: I don't know why you keep suggesting that pedophiles actively want to molest children, or are pursuing them. Like the This American Life shows, most pedophiles are not actively pursuing children.

Because this thread, and the show that the thread is about is about the pedophiles that actively want to pursue and molest children.

 

[DY_nasty]

I'm only talking about those who are resisting those urges. If we did more research, if we reached out more to help people with these urges, we would have fewer molestations.

EDIT: I don't know why you keep suggesting that pedophiles actively want to molest children, or are pursuing them. Like the This American Life shows, most pedophiles are not actively pursuing children.

didn't read OP or just don't care?

I've explained it to you - I am addressing the harm the video does, not the people in it.

when you want to talk about the people in it, let someone know

 

[Izuna]

I'm only talking about those who are resisting those urges. If we did more research, if we reached out more to help people with these urges, we would have fewer molestations.

EDIT: I don't know why you keep suggesting that pedophiles actively want to molest children, or are pursuing them. Like the This American Life shows, most pedophiles are not actively pursuing children.

Isn't that the definition of paedophilia though?

How else can they be paedophiles unless they want to shag kids?

The more I think about this the less I am able to convince myself to care. There's just something wrong with Stinson's program but I can't exactly figure out what.

But to reply... The reason why we can easily feel ashamed and disgusted is because we expect their POV is like ours just that they are making choices we wouldn't.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Because this thread, and the show that the thread is about is about the pedophiles that actively want to pursue and molest children.

Yet this is a discussion of pedophiles as a whole. We are discussing it because we are discussing the potential harm the publication this video may cause to those who aren't trolling for children.

Isn't that the definition of paedophilia though?

How else can they be paedophiles unless they want to shag kids?

The more I think about this the less I am able to convince myself to care. There's just something wrong with Stinson's program but I can't exactly figure out what.

There's a big distinction that needs to be made between wanting to do something and "needing" to do something. Saying that they "want" to do something is potentially harmful language for those who struggle with their urges. If you are compelled to do something, it's not really a want - a want can really only be something that you choose to desire, whereas a compulsion is something that you experience, no matter if you actually desire what your mind is communicating to you.

 

[DrFurbs]

It's not the pedophiles fault, it's all them damn sexy kids!

Right?

I'm at a loss with this topic I've literally seen it all now.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

and if this thread were about those people, then the tone would be very different

its not though. so lumping the ones actively looking for crimes to commit with the people who are working to deal with those issues does what?

Wouldn't it be everyone's best interest to try and help even those who actively seek to commit the crime by making sure we're able to have a rational debate about paedophilia and have a strong support network in place to ensure they don't act on any urges?

In some respects, a support system would resemble that which we currently have for recovering drug and alcohol addicts.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Yet this is a discussion of pedophiles as a whole. We are discussing it because we are discussing the potential harm the publication this video may cause to those who aren't trolling for children.

No, you are. The rest of us are talking about how people that actively try and do illegal things deserve to be shamed and put in jail and how you don't know the difference between how society views black people and how society views pedophiles.

 

[flyinpiranha]

I ran into this Medium.com article about a month ago - wasn't sure whether to new-thread it but it seems appropriate for this thread. I'm going to give it a NSFW MASSIVE CAUTION WARNING as it contains a really scary/troubling description of child porn that you both probably do not want to read at work and/or if you might have a strong reaction. It's about the difficulties of finding assistance for this issue for people who both are attracted to underage kids and realize they need to not act on these impulses. You’re 16. You’re a Pedophile. You Don’t Want to Hurt Anyone. What Do You Do Now?

I have nothing but sympathy for those who actively deal with their impulses and choose to seek help maintaining distance. I have absolutely none for those that don't and end up hurting kids. One of the scariest things is that one of the profiled individuals' personalities just reeks of the self-justification that's later going to lead to abuse, and that there doesn't seem to be a good way for anyone to get in front of him before it's too late.

Man, what a sad article. I think that type of person actively seeking help and the people who show up at the door are completely different though. I am all for public shaming of the people that were just about to try and do something terrible. But the kid in that article is a completely different type.

But holy shit at this part:

"He explained that he maintains a clear distinction between those he feels sexually attracted to and those with whom he feels a close paternal bond. He told me he only feels an erotic pull to girls aged seven to 12, and that for two-to-six-year-olds it’s more of a protective, almost brotherly instinct. He said this is what makes him such a good preschool teacher."

I mean, seek help, but don't surround yourself by the very debilitation you are seeking help for. Even alcoholics avoid bars (bad analogy as one is a disease, the other we just don't know enough about).

That article though, I couldn't even imagine what the kid, or the parent would be going through ... it's crazy, my stepson is nine and I couldn't even comprehend what our reaction would be to something like this. I would definitely seek help but it changes the way your view them, the way you think about them, everything ... fuck, that's just crazy shit right there.

 

[baterism]

Pedophile is horrible as it can break the children and their future. No sympathize at all to the pedophiles. But, I'm not really sure about vigilantism. I rather the cops doing their job instead of broadcasting the pedophiles online.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

yeah that's nice - but not at all the argument i n this thread

mental illness semantics aside, you have people who are acting. clearly. if you want to go on about the people who are actually seeking help and running into a brick wall in a different thread then by all means go and do that my tone and that of others will be dramatically different. but don't go on trying to talk about those who need help can't get it in the thread about people actively looking for kids to molest.

just sayin it might help

You mean in this thread about "the paedophile hunter" who revels in making examples of paedophiles, rather than doing someone marginally more productive, being met with praise and more calls for all paedos to be strung up? People won't bother making a distinction between those who've actually gone through with hurting children and those who haven't, but are sexually attracted to them.

And you think mentioning that this makes people afraid of getting help is off-topic. You think people can rally for "paedophile hunting" without discouraging all of them from getting help. Okay.

The hate and vitriol and lack of empathy is unproductive. If you think you have to explain why people are angry, then you're actively trying to miss and/or ignore the point. But again, I completely understand what it's like to want to lust over revenge and wallow in hate even when I know it's pointless and harmful. I'll just let you continue to scratch that itch since I've totally been there

 

[FreeMufasa]

Why do you keep bringing this up a link to the snatch?

It's the #notallcops defence. Does that have a name?

 

[Omegasquash]

I completely agree with this. And unfortunately, as far as I know, the only treatment involves loads of therapy and chemical castration in hopes of killing the sex drive. It's not that effective. I think that's really another reason a lot of pedophiles don't come forward. Why risk getting dragged out into the street and set fire to when there's not even much that can really be done to "cure" you.

I don't believe that being dragged into the streets is the necessary outcome...as I understand it the medical community would be very capable of respecting the privacy of a patient.

That said, I recognize how unfortunate it would be to submit oneself to something like chemical castration, but if given the choice of chemically castrating someone or letting one more child be the victim of molestation and abuse, I'm going to voice my vote to the former. I feel terrible for those people that have these urges, and understand that they can't change the wiring in their brain, but by caving and harming another person, they make themselves criminals of a very, very low order. My sympathy ends with someone making a choice to give in.

 

[Izuna]

I guess I just don't see the purpose of public shaming. After some thought, my understanding of paedophilia is moot as to why I dislike this program.

There is a case to be made that we don't know how to solve or help or whatever, but regardless the people in this program falling for it are disgusting.

My issue with the program is that the only thing there is to gain by watching it is simply public shaming without any additional education on the topic. I think I understand what A Link To The Snitch is trying to say...

Providing this show is as popular as my Facebook is making it out to be, it attracts paedophiles who wouldn't go to the door simply because it's a topic about them. All this program does is let them know they Channel 4 has no interest in providing help, if such thing does exist.

There's a big distinction that needs to be made between wanting to do something and "needing" to do something. Saying that they "want" to do something is potentially harmful language for those who struggle with their urges. If you are compelled to do something, it's not really a want - a want can really only be something that you choose to desire, whereas a compulsion is something that you experience, no matter if you actually desire what your mind is communicating to you.

Breh please, if they need to shag kids, then they should be taking in from a honeypot rather than after a tragic fact.

 

[DY_nasty]

Wouldn't it be everyone's best interest to try and help even those who actively seek to commit the crime by making sure we're able to have a rational debate about paedophilia and have a strong support network in place to ensure they don't act on any urges?

In some respects, a support system would resemble that which we currently have for recovering drug and alcohol addicts.

that's nice. and if that were a genuine interest, then i'm sure there'd be genuine support

meanwhile, there's a theme of making a beeline away from the blatantly obvious actions that DO happen on this forum by - no, not making the self-help and donations for pedophiles community thread or whatever - its by immediately throwing smoke over what is actually happening or has happened. that's why people say shit like 'pedophile defense force otw' so often. so if you actually want to ride with that banner, then wait a week and start posting cases of pedophiles who haven't committed crimes getting stonewalled while trying to reach support

but that never happens here. it never happens. its always rationalism, victimization, etc like what we have in this thread.

half-ass apology for going meta but it is what it is

 

[A Link to the Past]

Why do you keep bringing this up a link to the snatch?

It's the #notallcops defence. Does that have a name?

#notallcops is a defense that exists to downplay the actions of bad cops in question. In this situation, I am not downplaying the actions of the specific pedophiles who acted on their urges, nor am I downplaying other such pedophiles who act on their actions. They did wrong, and they should be in prison. The reason I am bringing up the persecution of people based solely on an urge beyond their control or desires is because instead of waving pitchforks around, we should try and research why pedophiles have the urges that they do, and try to find ways that will lead pedophiles to get help rather than be recluses. These kinds of shame videos discourage people from getting help, because it never emphasizes the importance for pedophiles to use that alternative, and the only dialogue is about how sick and twisted pedophiles are. In the end, support for people struggling with this sickness will do a lot more to protect potential child sexual assault victims than shaming will.

 

[……forgetit]

You seriously cannot blame people for not wanting pedophiles near their kids though.

Oh I agree 100% this was mainly meet to be a reply to people saying that we need to de-stigmatise pedophilia, which will never happen.

 

[Silphonica]

Oh I agree 100% this was mainly meet to be a reply to people saying that we need to de-stigmatise pedophilia, which will never happen.

In today's society, no, but as we learn more about what causes people to be sexually attracted to certain people or things, that will change as it will create more viable options to help people born the way they are.

Edit: If they seek help to change what they were naturally attracted to, i mean.

 

[DY_nasty]

You mean in this thread about "the paedophile hunter" who revels in making examples of paedophiles, rather than doing someone marginally more productive, being met with praise and more calls for all paedos to be strung up? People won't bother making a distinction between those who've actually gone through with hurting children and those who haven't, but are sexually attracted to them.

And you think mentioning that this makes people afraid of getting help is off-topic. You think people can rally for "paedophile hunting" without discouraging all of them from getting help. Okay.

The hate and vitriol and lack of empathy is unproductive. If you think you have to explain why people are angry, then you're actively trying to miss and/or ignore the point. But again, I completely understand what it's like to want to lust over revenge and wallow in hate even when I know it's pointless and harmful. I'll just let you continue to scratch that itch since I've totally been there

breh

the only reason this thread is even as big as it is is because link to a stitch felt the need to compare those prejudiced, unfairly treated caught-in-the-act pedophiles to black people and i went out of my way to bring it up again and again

again, you want to make a thread about people trying to get help NOT receiving it, then you'll see a very different tone. meanwhile, in one where there are actual predators, you want to bring that up. be reality. no one is ever going to be comfortable with even the idea of someone sexually assaulting a child. that's going to be a monumental hurdle until humanity is dead. you're not going to will that away with words of all fucking things. in the meantime, you want to focus on help - do it in a thread that isn't centered around guys caught acting on urges

 

[A Link to the Past]

breh

the only reason this thread is even as big as it is is because link to a stitch felt the need to compare those prejudiced, unfairly treated caught-in-the-act pedophiles to black people and i went out of my way to bring it up again and again

again, you want to make a thread about people trying to get help NOT receiving it, then you'll see a very different tone. meanwhile, in one where there are actual predators, you want to bring that up. be reality. no one is ever going to be comfortable with even the idea of someone sexually assaulting a child. that's going to be a monumental hurdle until humanity is dead. you're not going to will that away with words of all fucking things. in the meantime, you want to focus on help - do it in a thread that isn't centered around guys caught acting on urges

Please find a quote wherein I say that black people are the same as people who have committed child sexual assault.

I'll wait here patiently while you find all of nothing that supports that, and probably will continue to lie in order to have an argument.

thx

 

[Izuna]

Please find a quote wherein I say that black people are the same as people who have committed child sexual assault.

I'll wait here patiently while you find all of nothing that supports that, and probably will continue to lie in order to have an argument.

thx

You already apologised, just don't carry on the discussion any further.

 

[besada]

The fact that people aren't choosing to do this. Do you think so many people would be struggling so fucking hard to resist these urges if it was just something they would "choose" to do? Why would someone who was molested grow up and say "I want to put a child through my trauma" as a "for fun" thing? There is no disputing that pedophilia is almost universally the product of trauma.

Okay, this is just wrong. Only a third of pedophiles report being sexually assaulted as children. Virtually no one believes that all or even most pedophiles were molested as children. Further, the idea that being molested as a child turns you into a pedophile has been widely debunked, which is good, because it added extra stigma to people who'd already been terribly abused.

So please, quit spreading misinformation at the very least.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Okay, this is just wrong. Only a third of pedophiles report being sexually assaulted as children. Virtually no one believes that all or even most pedophiles were molested as children. Further, the idea that being molested as a child turns you into a pedophile has been widely debunked, which is good, because it added extra stigma to people who'd already been terribly abused.

So please, quit spreading misinformation at the very least.

Fair enough.

 

[DY_nasty]

Please find a quote wherein I say that black people are the same as people who have committed child sexual assault.

I'll wait here patiently while you find all of nothing that supports that, and probably will continue to lie in order to have an argument.

thx

lol should i link the posts where you apologized too?