Team Andromeda
Member
Ignore Youtube and most so the ones with hundreds of 'games' in the background
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
64gigabyteram
Reverse groomer.
This guy has a just cause and those games are legit. He runs a review series of random games. Not sure where your hatred is from
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Team Andromeda
Member
He's the typical You Tube thumbnail grandstanding shill
Guilty_AI
Member
Guy has been around since mid 2000s youtube, made the Freeman's mind series and now does reviews of obscure old games, usually abandonwares. He's anything but the "typical youtuber".
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Team Andromeda
Member
So has MJR
Thick Thighs Save Lives
NeoGAF's Physical Games Advocate Extraordinaire
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Its impossible to get people to understand that all they ever own are keys, and the digital "locks" into which they fit can be unilaterally removed by the supplier because there's no law that says they need to maintain them in perpetuity!
What's more its completely unenforceable because who'd pick up the slack were the supplier go out of business or noone remained able to maintain said digital locks?
What's more its completely unenforceable because who'd pick up the slack were the supplier go out of business or noone remained able to maintain said digital locks?
Thick Thighs Save Lives
NeoGAF's Physical Games Advocate Extraordinaire
I know it doesn't mean much, but if you're from the UK please consider signing the 'The Stop Killing Games' petition.
petition.parliament.uk
Archived Petition: Require videogame publishers to keep games they have sold in a working state
Require publishers to leave videogames (and related game assets / features) they have sold to customers in a reasonably working state when support ends, so that no further intervention whatsoever is necessary for the game to function, as a statutory consumer right.
petition.parliament.uk
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WitchHunter
Banned
They could release a vm image with binaries and let anyone pull up servers...
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
They could, but why would anyone choose to place their work in the public domain decades before their copyright expires?
Red Crayon Aristocrat
Member
I totally get why this upsets people, but at the end of the day, money has to be spent to keep servers online, if the money isn't there, who's going to pay to keep a game online just because? These ain't fucking charities.
Guilty_AI
Member
Don't force the game to check with servers then? Let players make their own servers? There were various cases of fans being able to run private servers from games that supposedly needed company servers.
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rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
They could patch local saves and local server creation (P2P) like games like Quake did in 1996.
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Red Crayon Aristocrat
Member
Sure, those are actual solutions, what I'm saying is it's weird people expect companies to just throw money just cuz (tbf, they do that a lot these days anyway)
Game devs could also move away from this stuff back to single player focused.
Guilty_AI
Member
Even more reason to make a law on it. They weren't forced to give refunds for digital purchases 15 years ago either, nor would some since they'd only have to lose.
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rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
They can do both, like they did since, again, Quake 1 in 1996.
digital_ghost
I am a closet furry. Don't you judge me.
# game lives matter
#stop destroying our games
physical game destruction should be illegal.
Publishers:
#stop destroying our games
physical game destruction should be illegal.
Publishers:
WitchHunter
Banned
I mean if they have zero plans to continue the franchise... then why let it rot?
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Uh yes. There are quite a few games that are not available physically.
Very true, but at the same time media preservation is important. It's always been a thing. Games are a major new media and this capability is being compromised. The companies themselves shouldn't be responsible for maintaining it, as you're right, it costs, and companies go out of business. It needs to be funded and performed by either publicly funded, or charity based archival libraries. But companies should be made to ALLOW that to happen. Currently most don't. They just turn them off and they vanish into history.
Bojji
Member
You can also buy movies on physical media and watch them until you die.
RoboFu
One of the green rats
Really ? That vhs collection doing well for you now?
Bojji
Member
Really ? That vhs collection doing well for you now?
Technology advanced since VHS and we have DVD, BD and UHD BD formats - modern players can play them all (including consoles).
You buy them once and own them for the rest of your life, same is true for majority of games through history. You also have ability to sell or trade/borrow them.
You probably don't care about things like that but many people do, letting corporations do whatever they want will be bad for everyone in the end (including you).
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coolmast3r
Member
I don't see how anyone wouldn't want to support this initiative. Unless you are a corporate shill that cares more about short term $$$ vs preserving games as a form of art.
IbizaPocholo
NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
Copyright for a videogame is 50 years I think?
But the vast majority of games don't make any money after a decade.
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Link to support the inititative: https://citizens-initiative.europa.eu/initiatives/details/2024/000007_en#
Doens't take more than a minute.
Doens't take more than a minute.
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stickkidsam
Member
Stop Killing Games is in a tough spot at the moment, but it's not over. There's still a month to reach the 1 million signatures necessary for the initiative to succeed in being put into the lawmaking process in the EU. This video is an update on the current problems the initiative is facing. Ross also clarifies misunderstandings that were popularized by Pirate Software. Luckily this seems to have sparked discussion on SKG again.
SKG could have a major positive ripple effect on games made in the future. With some luck and a little help, it can happen.
If you like what Ross is trying to do and live in the EU, get your signature in there! If ya know people who live there that value preserving games, share it with them! Let's help stop games being sent to purgatory
SomeNorseGuy
Gold Member
One of the extremely few occasions I'm sad we're not a part of the EU, I'd love to sign this.
Felessan
Member
It might (and I think should) work for offline games but it for sure will not for online-only.
Who will pay servers costs, they are not free. Expecting company to maintain them forever at their own expense is naive. Going offline is a part of any online game lifecycle, any player involved should know and be prepared to it.
Guilty_AI
Member
Many older online games are still operational, developers don't have to run the servers themselves.
Besides, one of the points brought up is that if it's a case where the game absolutely needs the developer support and cannot operate without it under any circumstance, what should be done is estabilish clear service terms, which in this case would be to tell buyers for how long the "service" will remain for the fee you paid.
Games like WoW and FF14 for example are very clear on that. You pay the dev X money and you'll get to use the "service" for Y amount of time, until when the game either shuts down or you pay again for more time. If the game were to shut down before that time is up, you get a refund.
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asdasdasdbb
Member
I don't know when BC 2 shut down, but SteamDB says the release date was 15 years ago.
grvg
Member
No part of this says that the devs need to keep running the servers themselves. There are plenty of alternatives, and those alternatives were actually the way online games used to run back in the day.
Felessan
Member
Online games and live service games are different
Preserving live service games require compromising server code that is much bigger part of the game that of online game and might involve intellectual property of the company
Bojji
Member
Game has perfectly functional SP campaign. Now piracy is the only way to play this game (outside of used copies on X360 and PS3).
DryvBy
Member
What's bad is they're sometimes still sold in physical form when there's no way to play them. Some games don't get pulled from store shelves.
grvg
Member
And this would require corporations to prepare for that when they plan game servers in the future.
Yes, it would be very inconvenient for massive corporations.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
There is a custom server mod for PC, but it is pretty quiet sadly.
ToadMan
Member
I can't think of a single example of the situation in the OP happening with any publisher of note. Perhaps it's an indie thing or I just missed it because the game was inconsequential?
Can anyone provide one or is this more a future concern problem?
While I wait, I will add one thing, there is no product anywhere in any industry that guarantees eternal support and / or availability (well outside religion but the customer support there is glacial and the product is bug ridden), so the initial demand is a non starter - the software equivalent of a pinky promise.
But, if you're happy for the price of games to go even higher because they have to pay for support for eternity, be my guest. No one works for free, even in an AI future, power and support has to be paid for to keep the thing running.
Can anyone provide one or is this more a future concern problem?
While I wait, I will add one thing, there is no product anywhere in any industry that guarantees eternal support and / or availability (well outside religion but the customer support there is glacial and the product is bug ridden), so the initial demand is a non starter - the software equivalent of a pinky promise.
But, if you're happy for the price of games to go even higher because they have to pay for support for eternity, be my guest. No one works for free, even in an AI future, power and support has to be paid for to keep the thing running.
Felessan
Member
It will not work.
Even if petition get through it would be hard to pass legislation. IP is protected by law and you can't force companies to share it just because you want to continue play. And there will be numerous ways to circumvent law even if it's passed in hard scenario (one can create SPV company, transfer operational rights to it and than close it, shutting down game in process - and legally you have no one to complain to as operational company no longer exists).
At most I would expect that closure process would be standardized - i.e. minimum grace period of 6 month before shutdown when announcement is made and sales are stopped.
asdasdasdbb
Member
That part true? I see people on SteamDB.
You probably just can't buy the game. Kind of lazy to discontinue selling the game if it does have a functional single player.
Bojji
Member
You can play the game if you have it your library already, yeah. But you can't obtain it "new" in any official way.
So far they are not removing games from libraries (at least on steam).