bitbydeath
Member
It made 0 sense for the military to let them live, El could have even helped fight them if she wanted.
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Stranger Things S5 trailer leak
- Thread starter M.W.
- Start date
Toons
Member
Dustin specifically went to the lab with the others because he hypothesized that it could contain something crucial to defeating vecna. He was wrong about what exactly it was, but it was not random. He went into a lab... and found lab notes, and cross referenced it with what he already knew. Thats pretty straightforward. I mean its not like someone was going to hand him that information, but he found it because he was looking in the right places.
Steves plan was just a way for then to get high into the air. It was messy, but it was the best they could do given the lack of time.
No, will knew he was gay since 2 seasons ago, as did we all, and he started using his powers before he even came out to anyone. His powers are a side effect of him being linked to the same source if power vecna uses, and the link Vecna placed into him all those years ago.
It wasn't just about his sexuality it was about him not hiding and suppressing his nature and how the events Hes lived through have affected him, which is why Mike had to make him realize he wasn't just a hapless victim but head weapnized what Vecna had out him through against him on numerous occasions. This is an age old storytelling trope in coming of age narratives, where someone realizes "who they are" within themselves before reaching their true potential.Its especially prevalent in 80s movies that this series is derived from. Is it hokey? Heck yeah it is, but like I said that's the vibe this show has always run on when it comes to the powers.
This is the exact same thing that happened to Jane, who gained her true power from her regaining memories of her past and finding community and belonging in the world back in season 2 after she met Kali the first time. Hers, Kalis, Henry's AND Wills pKalispell,are all mental based, and so their mental strength and state of mind are directly tied to how powerful they can become with it.
The military only cared about Jane, and she was in the lab and she and hopper defeated the soldiers there(the soldiers who, in fact were weren't authorized to engage but their leader acted on his own). Its reasonable enough to me for them to think they would've had some time because of this but Dr. K deduced their base of operations and found their plans, and Jane wasn't even supposed to be there with the others. She was supposed to kill vecna from inside the tank. But I mean, it's a looser story element i guess. It doesn't ruin the epsiode.
The government didn't want their actions seeking to recreate Brenners program getting out to the wider public we know that from how they tried to cover up Barbs death, nd they they were operating on black sites in S4. Dr. K didn't give a rats ass about the kids, she wanted Jane so she could make suepr soldiers.
Theres nothing she could've pinned on Nancy and Hop that wouldn't expose everything theyve been doing? The upside down was completely destroyed, vecna killed the majority of her forces in his massacre, so there's no concrete evidence of anything they did specifically. With eleven seemingly also Thanos dusted, K just wiped her hands of the whole operation, the only alternative would be to kill literally everyone who went through that portal including the 11 year olds.
I can cop to it being a loose resolution but again not enough to break the show for me. K was in a catch 22. Thrres also the possible case that those guys saved the entire planet, and possibly got pardoned for that with a typical "just don't tell the presa anything" asterisk. K was a mean SOB but she wasn't stupid and it was clear when the sky started falling that what they prevented was pretty bad.
Will fights Vecna before the meeting with the others. And the self-realisation montage that allows him to fight back is that he doesn't need to be afraid of who he is. It's not about being gay or not being gay. It's about not cutting off or hiding from a central part of himself and allowing that part to become integrated, so that his energy can be directed outwards towards what he wants to achieve, rather than inwards to "fight" the part of himself he can't accept.
As Toons points out, this is the same process that El goes through because part of her associates her powers with losing control and with the terrible massacre committed in the research facility. She is afraid that the side of herself that expresses her powers is a "monster", so she cannot fully engage with it until she is able to reconcile what happened. Even then, she needs some external impetus to truly tap into her power, as we see at the end of season 4. She needs validation from others because for almost her entire life she has been treated as a weapon rather than a human being. Equally, while Will's self-acceptance allows him to start using his powers to fight Vecna, there is still some part of him that is afraid he is not deserving of love. That's where the meeting comes in, which serves a similar purpose to the talk Mike gives El in the tub scene at the end of Season 4.
The message of Stranger Things is about strength through others, and through community. That's why it ends with the D&D scene. Dustin is invited to a party by a girl he likes but sticks with his friends to play D&D because that's where he feels he belongs, even if the activity is demonised by wider society. In the end the core theme of the show is acceptance, which makes the reaction to Will's coming out scene doubly ironic.
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kunonabi
Member
The writing this season is so far removed from the first 4 seasons that I have to imagine there was meddling or the Duffers had just already checked out for some reason. Season 4 wasn't perfect but it was a definitely a bit of a return to form after season 3 and was clearing setting up for something that Season 5 just had no interest in paying off.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
I hadn't seen S1 of ST since it came out ten years ago. This weekend the wife and I sat down to eat and turned the TV on and we went back and watched the first ep of ST but ended up watching the first three eps instead. We were honestly shocked at how different in writing and tone S1 and S5 are, like back to back the differences are dramatic. It feels like an entirely different production and writing team did both seasons, we'd forgotten just how good S1 was.
Also really amazing how young the main cast was back then, I mean damn!
ResilientBanana
Member
Will only being able to defeat Vecna by declaring that he's gay was not on my bingo card. Even my wife, who's more on the woke side was like, what the fuck was that?
Paasei
Member
Thought the season wasn't very good. Started off so great and ends with.... This. My thoughts with spoilers.
- Army just vanished after El presumably died. That ending "forcing" speculation on how it ends.
- What's the deal with the Hive Mind in the last season? If everything is connected like it was in earlier seasons, where the fuck were all the demogorgons during the last fight? Or how they now just keep walking and standing on all the vines, suddenly you can just do that without consequence?
- Out of nowhere some young adult/maybe even teen, just starts shooting and killing US soldiers, lol
- World is about to end but we have all the time in the world to assure Will it's okay to be gay. There are more urgent matters. If they wanted to do this so badly, they should've done it when it was over.
- 008 behind to door, quick shot where her little gang was killed off in less than 5sec just to get that loose end out of the way. Then dies and is suddenly (according to Mikes theory) able to hold the facade during a massive explosion.
- Wormhole, really?
Overall writing was just not good, either. Dusting and Steve were the only interesting bits making this somewhat worthwhile.
- What's the deal with the Hive Mind in the last season? If everything is connected like it was in earlier seasons, where the fuck were all the demogorgons during the last fight? Or how they now just keep walking and standing on all the vines, suddenly you can just do that without consequence?
- Out of nowhere some young adult/maybe even teen, just starts shooting and killing US soldiers, lol
- World is about to end but we have all the time in the world to assure Will it's okay to be gay. There are more urgent matters. If they wanted to do this so badly, they should've done it when it was over.
- 008 behind to door, quick shot where her little gang was killed off in less than 5sec just to get that loose end out of the way. Then dies and is suddenly (according to Mikes theory) able to hold the facade during a massive explosion.
- Wormhole, really?
Overall writing was just not good, either. Dusting and Steve were the only interesting bits making this somewhat worthwhile.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
Yeah, during that scene my wife and I just sat in silence with our jaws agape, and when they all started hugging we just looked at each other and burst out laughing. It was just too ridiculous of a scene, it felt like it was written by children or something.
Ulysses 31
Member
Chuck Berry
Gold Member
MrAlwaysRight
Member
Get ready for tonight boys and girls
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
As a huge fan of the show, I highly doubt theyd do such a thing. The last ep was in cinemas as well, no way Netflix would waste money for not the real "ending".
waste money,.....they should have MADE money in the theatrical run. Those showings were all sold out around me.
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
Even more reason why theres no logical explanation finanacially speaking for another episode to exist. Cmon, it wasnt the best ending, sure, but some hardcore fans are just coping now.
Esquie
Neo Member
The finale was great. I could buy into this nonsense if it felt unsatisfying and left a lot of things open but it didn't. Despite the rest of season 5 being mediocre, they absolutely stuck the landing and pretty much tired everything up. The D&D game at the end there was a perfect way to put a bow on it.
Pagusas
Elden Member
Same, i LOVED the finale, it was the exact opposite of Game of Thrones, it made me want to watch the series all over again (where is GoT made me never want to watch the show again)
Revolutionary
Member
As I said last week, this is Mass Effect 3's Indoctrination Theory all over again - they fucked up the ending so badly that the fans are now convinced that there's a secret alternate ending.
Pagusas
Elden Member
They didn't fuck it up at all. There was ZERO chance all fan's would be happy, and the idiot loud minority is just being insanely stupid and trying to cope that they didn't get what they wanted.
They certainly left enough oddities in the finale to support the notion that it's all a Vecna mind trap and/or he did merge the worlds. To go back and refight it would be a damned masterstroke but if they leave it as is, it's an easy theory to support that somewhere along the way they all got nabbed and hooked to the vecna matrix.
MrAlwaysRight
Member
There is 100% another episode, the kidnapping of Mike Wheeler.
I knew this before all the conformitygate stuff started up.
I knew this before all the conformitygate stuff started up.
There doesn't even need to be another episode. From all the easter eggs that have been found in the finale you could argue that it had a secret ending built in. So you can either believe the happy ending or the deeper subversive ending that might be hidden there.
If the Duffer's wrote it that way then that's pretty genius.
If the Duffer's wrote it that way then that's pretty genius.
Lambogenie
Member
Where have all the theories for a secret episode come from?
mostly instagram clips for me.
It's stuff like how did Max graduate when she was in a coma for the past year?, why are the graduation gowns a color associated with vecna, there are other color changes in certain sets similar to what was shown with the merry go-round and Holly, why was everyone given such a happy ending, why does derrick keep complaining about a bad smell, to things like dates and fragments of names in certain scenes, or the S4 dnd game where rolling "11" didn't beat the vecna bad guy. Foreshadowing? Coincidence? clever writing or lazy?
bitbydeath
Member
There's a huge plot hole in Mike's story though, Kali was already long dead.
Smiggs
Gold Member
Didn't Mike explain that was just his theory, and he didn't know that's what actually happened?
bitbydeath
Member
The Duffers intended on it being ambiguous.
Maybe they forgot they killed her onscreen?
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The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
To be fair, season 4 was absolutely amazing and raised the bar so high it would've been almost impossible to surpass, which is why a lot of fans are still desperately clinging for hope. Some people have weird recency biases, instead of focusing on the fact that overall, the entire show delivered and surpassed expectations, despite the last half of s5 being somewhat weaker. The first half of s5 was amazing tho up until Will the sorcerer episode.
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yet_another_alt
Member
I just wanted closure for Owens...