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Street Fighter V |OTVI| The More I Know, The Worse I Play

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K

KidA Seven

Member
Bizazedo said:
Do we know for certain this is post patch SF V? I ask because sometimes a League or competitive body might use the prior version if they're near the end of their season.
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Not sure. Actually there was a Japanese article a few weeks ago about China being unable to download the latest update.


I haven't seen the invisible wall being used. Guess we'll be able to tell with that and the obvious v reversal change from Cammy.
 
O

Omnistalgic

Member
TheSpoiler said:
Let's be real, people. You guys aren't, for the most part, going to fight Lauras that are 9 steps ahead of you. In fact, you probably won't fight a Laura that's even 3 steps ahead. That doc is just to break down her options at maximum potential, which most people won't even get to. What you saw last night was a dude who was amazing at Laura, not a common Laura player.

Most are going to break down once you hit the v-reversal or jump out of their shit. The second you break their momentum, they will crumble. It's still honest because Laura not only has to do the work, but she still has to make the right reads. Her character is all about risk/reward.

It's no different than watching one of your matches after a loss and figuring out how that Akuma kept catching you with demon flips or whatever.
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that's true...but once you get up in ranks, the top players do a good job of emulating what the Pros put on display. The mika's in Super plat really were't that far off from what we've saw from Du, and I played Du a few times as well and thought I had him beat, his comebacks against me were really annoying getting in that blender lol. I just don't like the character archetype in general, although some of my most enjoyable matches come from Flux...

But yeah in general, Laura's aren't as skilled.
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
I saw NuckleDu mentioning on Twitter that he was still alright with Mika and that his S2 team would probably stay the same.

Still, we're talking about the best SFV player in the world, so if there's anyone who would make her work now...

TheSpoiler said:
Let's be real, people. You guys aren't, for the most part, going to fight Lauras that are 9 steps ahead of you. In fact, you probably won't fight a Laura that's even 3 steps ahead. That doc is just to break down her options at maximum potential, which most people won't even get to. What you saw last night was a dude who was amazing at Laura, not a common Laura player.

Most are going to break down once you hit the v-reversal or jump out of their shit. The second you break their momentum, they will crumble. It's still honest because Laura not only has to do the work, but she still has to make the right reads. Her character is all about risk/reward.

It's no different than watching one of your matches after a loss and figuring out how that Akuma kept catching you with demon flips or whatever.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, the Lauras I usually go against are those who operate on that kind of level, and it's a huge pain in the ass.
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
Bizazedo said:
Almost doesn't matter. 3-3 with nerfed Mika against Cammy. But no, everyone should bail on Mika, nerfs were too much.
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Unfortunately, not everyone can be NuckleDu. Like Ultra David kept saying in S1, it's a very specific, rare kind of player who could make her work at a high level. This steep wall has become even more significant in S2. Those who can make her work like the champion himself can obviously reap the benefits.
 
T

TheSpoiler

Member
Omnistalgic said:
that's true...but once you get up in ranks, the top players do a good job of emulating what the Pros put on display. The mika's in Super plat really were't that far off from what we've saw from Du, and I played Du a few times as well and thought I had him beat, his comebacks against me were really annoying getting in that blender lol. I just don't like the character archetype in general, although some of my most enjoyable matches come from Flux...

But yeah in general, Laura's aren't as skilled.
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FluxWaveZ said:
Unfortunately, the Lauras I usually go against are those who operate on that kind of level, and it's a huge pain in the ass.
Click to expand...


I think a bigger difference is that while they might use the same setups, they don't have the same skill in implementing it like top players do on a constant basis. However, both of you are good players, so if you wanna proceed, ya gotta learn.

Nothing wrong with not liking going against her. I fucking hate Gief playing Akuma, I think using Birdie against a good Sim is total bullshit, and anytime I fight a Urien or Rashid it's all fucking memes.
 
B

Bizazedo

Member
FluxWaveZ said:
Unfortunately, not everyone can be NuckleDu. Like Ultra David kept saying in S1, it's a very specific, rare kind of player who could make her work at a high level. This steep wall has become even more significant in S2. Those who can make her work like the champion himself can obviously reap the benefits.
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Flux, the top pros are not going to use trash characters for the kind of money that's being thrown around. I'm willing to say this isn't representative of what S2 will be since it's still so early so maybe that's why Mika still won (against super buffed Cammy btw)....

But so far, bailing on her is premature based on this.
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
Bizazedo said:
Flux, the top pros are not going to use trash characters for the kind of money that's being thrown around. I'm willing to say this isn't representative of what S2 will be since it's still so early so maybe that's why Mika still won (against super buffed Cammy btw)....

But so far, bailing on her is premature based on this.
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I don't think Mika is trash (it'd be too early to gauge that, anyways), but I'm saying that he's the best player in the world, and that his proficiency with Mika before has clearly passed over to her S2 form due to his playstyle. I've been watching some of his recent CFN replays to observe how he's been playing.

But it's not just about a good character or not; Mika has fundamentally changed. That's why some people like Luffy are so willing to drop her immediately. Even if she's good or not, it's not great if she doesn't gel with how you play anymore and you just can't adapt.
 
B

Bizazedo

Member
FluxWaveZ said:
I don't think Mika is trash (it'd be too early to gauge that, anyways), but I'm saying that he's the best player in the world, and that his proficiency with Mika before has clearly passed over to her S2 form due to his playstyle. I've been watching some of his recent CFN replays to observe how he's been playing.

But it's not just about a good character or not; Mika has fundamentally changed. That's why some people like Luffy are so willing to drop her immediately. Even if she's good or not, it's not great if she doesn't gel with how you play anymore and you just can't adapt.
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How has her playstyle changed?

Semi-smartass question, because I honestly don't know.
 
B

Bizazedo

Member
kirblar said:
She has to work much harder to get you into the corner. Brain dead raw claps aren't a thing anymore, nor is the brain dead invisible wall.
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I'd argue that's not a different playstyle, though, and he was saying it has and doesn't fit certain players anymore. That's why I want to know what, exactly, has changed.
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
Bizazedo said:
How has her playstyle changed?

Semi-smartass question, because I honestly don't know.
Click to expand...

More footsie based, less volatile/explosive based at neutral. Can't reactionary clap to punish anymore, or preemptively counter-poke with the clap. Has to rely more on the st.MP > EX Peach sequence. Needs to rely more on st.MK and cr.MK.

Bizazedo said:
I'd argue that's not a different playstyle, though, and he was saying it has and doesn't fit certain players anymore. That's why I want to know what, exactly, has changed.
Click to expand...

It is. My playstyle with Mika relied on being patient and mostly backing off from my opponent, until they got a little too eager and then I'd clap them, shifting the entire momentum of the match in my favor. I also relied a lot on using cr.LK as a measuring stick to do well spaced cr.HP. None of those are an option anymore, so now I need to act as a mobile wall while actually advancing. I need to play a patient offense at all times and I can't go for the patient defense anymore.

Concentrating on her mixups is pointless, because she's pretty much the same as before when she gets in. That's why everything that's different is based around her neutral.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Bizazedo said:
I'd argue that's not a different playstyle, though, and he was saying it has and doesn't fit certain players anymore. That's why I want to know what, exactly, has changed.
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She is very hard to play in neutral now. The easy part of her game (corner) didn't change.
 
M

Mr. X

Member
Bizazedo said:
I'd argue that's not a different playstyle, though, and he was saying it has and doesn't fit certain players anymore. That's why I want to know what, exactly, has changed.
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Normals got slower or more unsafe or worse hitboxes for most grapplers. Instead of relying on poking, safely spacing moves they seem to be more get and land command grabs.
 
C

CountBlack

Member
FluxWaveZ said:
More footsie based, less volatile/explosive based at neutral. Can't reactionary clap to punish anymore, or preemptively counter-poke with the clap. Has to rely more on the st.MP > EX Peach sequence. Needs to rely more on st.MK and cr.MK.



It is. My playstyle with Mika relied on being patient and mostly backing off from my opponent, until they got a little too eager and then I'd clap them, shifting the entire momentum of the match in my favor. I also relied a lot on using cr.LK as a measuring stick to do well spaced cr.HP. None of those are an option anymore, so now I need to act as a mobile wall while actually advancing. I need to play a patient offense at all times and I can't go for the patient defense anymore.

Concentrating on her mixups is pointless, because she's pretty much the same as before when she gets in. That's why everything that's different is based around her neutral.
Click to expand...

You do realize the clap was pretty dumb though right? Be honest, how many ranked matches have you won instantly off of one random clap in neutral? It has to be over over 1000 matches or at least rounds one off of a random clap lol
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
CountBlack said:
You do realize the clap was pretty dumb though right? Be honest, how many ranked matches have you won instantly off of one random clap in neutral? It has to be over over 1000 matches or at least rounds one off of a random clap lol
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Yeah, both the clap and the cr.HP were extremely powerful; it's why they got nerfed.
 
B

Bizazedo

Member
kirblar said:
She is very hard to play in neutral now. The easy part of her game (corner) didn't change.
Click to expand...

FluxWaveZ said:
More footsie based, less volatile/explosive based at neutral. Can't reactionary clap to punish anymore, or preemptively counter-poke with the clap. Has to rely more on the st.MP > EX Peach sequence. Needs to rely more on st.MK and cr.MK.



It is. My playstyle with Mika relied on being patient and mostly backing off from my opponent, until they got a little too eager and then I'd clap them, shifting the entire momentum of the match in my favor. I also relied a lot on using cr.LK as a measuring stick to do well spaced cr.HP. None of those are an option anymore, so now I need to act as a mobile wall while actually advancing. I need to play a patient offense at all times and I can't go for the patient defense anymore.

Concentrating on her mixups is pointless, because she's pretty much the same as before when she gets in. That's why everything that's different is based around her neutral.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, I cede the point then ;).

I have to be honest and say I have no sympathy for the nerf of the clap, to Count's point, but I'll say I can see how that would change her up enough to constitute a playstyle shift.
 
Z

Zombegoast

Member
Of course they made jump in worse except for this broken cross up.

giphy.gif


Also this guy a lag switcher, he tried to lag the game when he was close to dizzying me and that he didn't want a rematch. Casual is very serious.
 
E

Edzi

Member
FluxWaveZ said:
More footsie based, less volatile/explosive based at neutral. Can't reactionary clap to punish anymore, or preemptively counter-poke with the clap. Has to rely more on the st.MP > EX Peach sequence. Needs to rely more on st.MK and cr.MK.



It is. My playstyle with Mika relied on being patient and mostly backing off from my opponent, until they got a little too eager and then I'd clap them, shifting the entire momentum of the match in my favor. I also relied a lot on using cr.LK as a measuring stick to do well spaced cr.HP. None of those are an option anymore, so now I need to act as a mobile wall while actually advancing. I need to play a patient offense at all times and I can't go for the patient defense anymore.

Concentrating on her mixups is pointless, because she's pretty much the same as before when she gets in. That's why everything that's different is based around her neutral.
Click to expand...

So on one hand you claim to have only played Mika because you like the character and don't care about the play style, but on the other hand you're willing to drop her because she lost the derpiest parts of her play style? Lol, which is it?
 
L

lucebuce12

Member
Personally, I don't mind Chun-Li's v-skill leading to ambiguous crossups because I think that's a part of the character's toolset and she can't really abuse it so much. Chun's realistically only expect it to work as part of a setup after CC sweep.

Necalli's j.mk on the other hand....
 
V

vulva

Member
Zombegoast said:
Of course they made jump in worse except for this broken cross up.

giphy.gif


Also this guy a lag switcher, he tried to lag the game when he was close to dizzying me and that he didn't want a rematch. Casual is very serious.
Click to expand...
A poorly timed anti air doesn't mean the jump in is broken. They even nerfed her lower hitbox on jump mk so it's not quite as good.
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
Edzi said:
So on one hand you claim to have only played Mika because you like the character and don't care about the play style, but on the other hand you're willing to drop her because she lost the derpiest parts of her play style? Lol, which is it?
Click to expand...

How is this confusing? I pick up a character from the outset because of aesthetic reasons first and foremost. I then adopt their playstyle and try to make it my own, like anyone. But if that fundamentally changes due to patches later on and I have problems adapting to the new, meaning I have less fun playing the game, of course I'll have to change trajectory. It's one thing to start off with a character, it's another thing to readjust with them because of circumstances outside of your control.

And when did I say I was willing to drop her?
 
C

ColonialHawk

Member
Skilletor said:
For real. Do c.hp earlier.

Better yet, you had d/b charge, why you doing c.hp instead of flashkick?
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Probably going for the CC.

Edit: On the topic of Ibuki, her loss of moves is just a side effect of SFV's accessibility. Maybe Capcom thought that having too many specials moves would mess with how accessible a character could be (not too mention balancing them all with the V-system). I mean most characters have a max of like 4-5 special moves with Akuma I think having the most. But maybe with Akuma being so popular, it might show Capcom that people do want some more complexity.

Thats the only thing I can think of since it doesn't make sense story wise as to why she wouldn't have moves. I think changing her vskill to include one of these moves would be good for her cause no one sure as hell ain't using her vskill now.
 
H

hey_it's_that_dog

benevolent sexism
Zombegoast said:
Of course they made jump in worse except for this broken cross up.

giphy.gif


Also this guy a lag switcher, he tried to lag the game when he was close to dizzying me and that he didn't want a rematch. Casual is very serious.
Click to expand...
How many people would you estimate have lag switched against you since the game launched?
 
J

JayEH

Junior Member
This DP change for Boxer is killing me. I'm trash cancelling cr. HP into screw upper when I'm on the right side. It's exposing me, I don't like it. At least this is helping me with my execution for other characters.
 
Z

Zombegoast

Member
Ucchedavāda;227355902 said:
How do you know that they intentionally "tried to lag the game"?
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When I was about to get dizzy, when I'm in the corner, match being perfectly fine in the first round.

Skilletor said:
Everybody intentionally lags the game against him.
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thats how it is when finding bad players in platinum and beyond with WannaSeeMyKungFu RQ his way to 20k.
 
H

Hellshingu

Member
Skilletor said:
Nah, she's boring as fuck.
Click to expand...

QFT.

Out of all the returning SF3 characters I don't know why they screwed her up so bad. Alex and Urien are for the most part similar enough to their 3S counterparts that I don't mind what they are missing.

Probably explains why I like playing them the most out of the cast and will not touch ibuki.
 
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