• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Street Fighter V |OTVI| The More I Know, The Worse I Play

Status
Not open for further replies.

mnz

Unconfirmed Member
Oh and I really gotta thank the person showing me Karin's whiff buttons a few days ago. Has really helped me out in the neutral in general.

Negative edge in SFV is down right horrible for controllers, wish we could turn it off, for example i buffered Alex chop decided to cancel, I block corner back(crouch block) for a second, do Alex chop get power bomb lol..
Well, I use a DS4...
You really have to be extremely quick when hitting a button, but that's not easy after V-Trigger activation.
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
You've downplayed her quite a bit throughout the last year, that's all I meant. I think you want her to be more honest than she is, while her entire gameplan is dishonest by design. The fact that Mika players got so up in arms about the fact that she lost the clap, one of the most busted and braindead one hit = death moves in the game, was kind of telling imo.

Downplayed her how? You talk as though she didn't have any flaws; is your problem that I'm aware of them and that I've spoken of them in the past? I don't want her to be a more honest character than she is: her entire design is about being dishonest. That was the essence of the character back in S1. The issue is that, in S2, they tried to make her a more honest character, but only did so by trying to destroy her fundamental design, without actually revisiting it. It's obvious they don't know what to do with her, when they give her stuff like Shooting Star.

You cant say players dropping characters just based on character strength , Especially pros who are playing to win. A character can be mid tier or even mid high and a pro would drop that character to pick a high tier especially if its a character they like better.

Then what about the fact that she's also one of the least played characters online? Mika fit with certain people's playstyles. Not many, but there were some. And now those people are on the verge of dropping her. Not all pros play only the top tier characters, but that goes into another problem with S2, with some people saying that it's necessary to be competitive now.
 
Oh and I really gotta thank the person showing me Karin's whiff buttons a few days ago. Has really helped me out in the neutral in general.


Well, I use a DS4...

When i am in lazy comfy couch mode i use controller, when i am in serious mode i will use my stick, and I can say with my stick don't have issues with Negative Edge, just too much buffering by the system with a controller..
 

Shadoken

Member
Then what about the fact that she's also one of the least played characters online? Mika fit with certain people's playstyles. Not many, but there were some. And now those people are on the verge of dropping her. Not all pros play only the top tier characters, but that goes into another problem with S2, with some people saying that it's necessary to be competitive now.

Maybe its because she isnt all that popular? Many scrubs just picked her coz she could stomp online and now that they cant they just dropped her. Online popularity isnt a tier list. Shotos are always number 1.

A character like Zangief and Guile is higher than even Mika in S1 because they are popular characters.
A character like Nash who got hit super hard in S2 is still relatively high because he is a popular character.

Yes tiers do affect character usage online , but Character popularity plays a much bigger role. FANG could be High Tier in Season 3 doesnt mean he is going to move to top 10 just because of that.
Watch Balrog usage drop back to S1 levels if he gets nerfed.

S1 Character Usage November
16_dec2016charusagesfv03.jpg


S2 Character Usage December
16_dec2016charusagesfv01.jpg
 
I double tap these days, just happened natrually not long before Akuma release. Now it is a habbit with everyone I play.
I just can't get my mind around that. Two fingering one button just makes me mistime things that would have been easy for me otherwise. When I listen to Valle play I feel like I'm doing things downright wrong.
 
I believe we're still in the process of seeing major shifts in character usage. I expect Nash usage to drop just like Ryu and Chun usage did. It'll be interesting to watch the process.
 

mnz

Unconfirmed Member
This game is trolling me by now. Since that 10 ranked game wins challenge I dropped down to Ultra Gold and I've been at 7,400+ LP atleast 6 times since then, but at that point the game always gives me much better opponents.
Rant over.
 

Shadoken

Member
Anyway that wasnt meant to disagree with ur post about Mika , she does still seem like a flawed character.

All am saying is , Character strength is not the only thing that affects Character usage. There are many other factors.

a) Ease of Use
b) Character Strength
c) Character popularity
d) Play style
e) Can you Rofl stomp with this character online?

I believe we're still in the process of seeing major shifts in character usage. I expect Nash usage to drop just like Ryu and Chun usage did. It'll be interesting to watch the process.

Online usage wont change all that much. A majority of the players are in a level where tier lists are completely different.
People online in bronze are still going to fall for SFV Beta style Nash pressure with moonsault. And thats roughly 50% of the playerbase.
 

Shadoken

Member
The bottom five of those charts sure is consistent lol

Top 3 is going to remain consistent as well , now that Akuma has joined the holy Shoto trinity.

Edit : By the time we are in Season 4. Online usage list will be

Ryu
Akuma
Ken
Evil Ryu
Violent Ken
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
Maybe its because she isnt all that popular? Many scrubs just picked her coz she could stomp online and now that they cant they just dropped her. Online popularity isnt a tier list. Shotos are always number 1.

Sure, but then that goes back to her place in the competitive game. The goal should be for every character to be fun to play, and also tournament viable, right? I feel like Season 2 has at least not gone with the former for a lot of people, with people who played characters in S1 feeling like they're no longer fun to play as in S2. Mika falls under that umbrella, and I don't think that's a good thing.
 

Edzi

Member
Sure, but then that goes back to her place in the competitive game. The goal should be for every character to be fun to play, and also tournament viable, right? I feel like Season 2 has at least not gone with the former for a lot of people, with people who played characters in S1 feeling like they're no longer fun to play as in S2. Mika falls under that umbrella, and I don't think that's a good thing.

This I can agree with. Slowing down normals has made a lot of characters less fun to play overall, and it's becoming more apparent as time goes on.
 

Shadoken

Member
It is interesting to compare Character Usage with these Character popularity polls.

https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013...-fighter-favorite-characters-popularity-poll/

You have Charlie in the middle , yet hes top 3. And even with nerfs hes in top 10 char usage.
Then you have Balrog in the bottom yet hes pretty decent even without his Top tier S2 version.

Karin seems to be relatively consistent in her popularity and character usage. Ibuki is waaay lower , Urien is a looot higher.

Would be interesting if Capcom had this Data for SF4.

Sure, but then that goes back to her place in the competitive game. The goal should be for every character to be fun to play, and also tournament viable, right? I feel like Season 2 has at least not gone with the former for a lot of people, with people who played characters in S1 feeling like they're no longer fun to play as in S2. Mika falls under that umbrella, and I don't think that's a good thing.

I feel you man. Season 2 in general is not fun to play lmao. At first I thought its just me being salty my character got nerfed. But even players like ChrisG who plays top tier like Guile doesnt really like it.

Season 2 to me feels like it severely lacks proper direction.
 
I just can't get my mind around that. Two fingering one button just makes me mistime things that would have been easy for me otherwise. When I listen to Valle play I feel like I'm doing things downright wrong.

Just do what works, I know players like Chris G don't double tap at all. As someone who primarily played 3S, I was told "always double tap unless there is a reason not to" I basically double tap EVERYTHING.
 
I hope that one of the S2 characters clicks with me because to be quite honest I'm kinda getting bored of Urien already. Seeing the billion others running around online is only exacerbating the staleness too.

It makes me feel dirty to say that about my 3S main and the DLC character I was most excited about, but I guess that's what happens when your sub becomes top tier basically overnight.
 
I hope that one of the S2 characters clicks with me because to be quite honest I'm kinda getting bored of Urien already. Seeing the billion others running around online is only exacerbating the staleness too.

It makes me feel dirty to say that about my 3S main and the DLC character I was most excited about, but I guess that's what happens when your sub becomes top tier basically overnight.

I know it's only part of your issue, but if you like playing him, who cares where he's at on the tier list?
 
Yea I don't really agree with them not giving Mika anything worthwhile back after all the nerfs. While she did deserve those nerfs, she got nothing except for an air target combo lol.

Chun while getting bopped at least got some new tools and tricks for S2.
 
How do we know tournament viable yet, without big tournaments.

Lets get some majors done first.

And I think some of you guys worry to much about tier lists.
 
I know it's only part of your issue, but if you like playing him, who cares where he's at on the tier list?

I dunno, I guess I've just always had that hipster mindset of shying away from the more popular characters so I feel like it's my own skill and not the character that leads me to victory.

Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy playing Urien for the most part (as the 10000 videos on my Twitter can attest to) but something about the way his S2 iteration plays just isn't clicking with me as much.
 
Online usage wont change all that much. A majority of the players are in a level where tier lists are completely different.
People online in bronze are still going to fall for SFV Beta style Nash pressure with moonsault. And thats roughly 50% of the playerbase.
That is where the most significant changes occur in terms of character usage. Some pros switching just amounts to a few dozen people, but Chun usage tumbling means thousands are probably deciding to try something/someone new. If Nash really is at the bottom then it'll be interesting to see if his character usage holds like Alex's or stumbles.
This I can agree with. Slowing down normals has made a lot of characters less fun to play overall, and it's becoming more apparent as time goes on.
The slowing down of mediums is the second worst change behind the white life change. V-reversals nerf follow closely behind in my book.
It is interesting to compare Character Usage with these Character popularity polls.

https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013...-fighter-favorite-characters-popularity-poll/

You have Charlie in the middle , yet hes top 3. And even with nerfs hes in top 10 char usage.
Then you have Balrog in the bottom yet hes pretty decent even without his Top tier S2 version.

Karin seems to be relatively consistent in her popularity and character usage. Ibuki is waaay lower , Urien is a looot higher.

Would be interesting if Capcom had this Data for SF4.
Capcom hit it out of the park with Nash and Karin. They really made the transition very nicely and their popularity makes me hopeful for Karin's future appearances in another numbered Street Fighter title. Makes me sad that they fumbled so badly on Alex and Ibuki. They took the Nintendo approach and tried to fix what wasn't broken.
I feel you man. Season 2 in general is not fun to play lmao. At first I thought its just me being salty my character got nerfed. But even players like ChrisG who plays top tier like Guile doesnt really like it.

Season 2 to me feels like it severely lacks proper direction.
Season 2 would have made a bit more sense had it been released right after EVO instead of five months later.
Yea I don't really agree with them not giving Mika anything worthwhile back after all the nerfs. While she did deserve those nerfs, she got nothing except for an air target combo lol.

Chun while getting bopped at least got some new tools and tricks for S2.
Same for Necalli who at least got a new overhead (that'll probably be rarely used).
 
I dunno, I guess I've just always had that hipster mindset of shying away from the more popular characters so I feel like it's my own skill and not the character that leads me to victory.

Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy playing Urien for the most part (as the 10000 videos on my Twitter can attest to) but something about the way his S2 iteration plays just isn't clicking with me as much.

Well, it's not like a win button. Urien has weaknesses, and the tiers are fairly close compared to older less balanced games.

Basically you are still putting in that work.

But the Urien meme is getting old though. Kinda tired of seeing a bunch of combos that'll rarely happen in tournament play. Or maybe it's just too much Urien I dunno.
 
I disagree. I used Alex in SF3. I love how he plays and feels in 5 (balance and stomps not crossing up withstanding). I don't think they fumbled him (besides his shit alt costumes) at all.
 

mnz

Unconfirmed Member
The V-Reversal change is so weird. It's like they decided it should only be useful against 1 or 2 moves of every character. But...why.
 

Shadoken

Member
That is where the most significant changes occur in terms of character usage. Some pros switching just amounts to a few dozen people, but Chun usage tumbling means thousands are probably deciding to try something/someone new. If Nash really is at the bottom then it'll be interesting to see if his character usage holds like Alex's or stumbles.

But Chun is still relatively the same in usage she went from 3.6 to 2.8. What I meant was , if a character goes from Top 5 to bottom 5 in tier list. Their usage will still stay roughly the same tier , maybe 1-1.5% change up or down.

Dhalsim aint gonna become a top 5 most used character even if hes S tier and Ryu will not drop from Top 3 even if he is borderline unplayable.

Season 2 would have made a bit more sense had it been released right after EVO instead of five months later..

Yea am surprised they didnt think the Input lag reduction would make a change in tiers.
 
Well, it's not like a win button. Urien has weaknesses, and the tiers are fairly close compared to older less balanced games.

Basically you are still putting in that work.

But the Urien meme is getting old though. Kinda tired of seeing a bunch of combos that'll rarely happen in tournament play. Or maybe it's just too much Urien I dunno.

He's definitely not a win button, but the fact that I've already been accused twice at locals of picking up Urien just cuz he's strong in S2 (despite the fact that I've been playing him since he dropped) anecdotally shows that there is some stigma surrounding the character. I certainly can't have that; it clashes with my philosophy! :p

I'm not suuuuper good at Aegis setups either (mostly just stick with the tried-and-true target combo into sMP, sMP, sHP, crHP and then BnB while using the second mirror as a mixup tool after a knockdown) which I know severely limits my skill ceiling as Urien.
 
I disagree. I used Alex in SF3. I love how he plays and feels in 5 (balance and stomps not crossing up withstanding). I don't think they fumbled him (besides his shit alt costumes) at all.
The addition of so many new combos is welcome, stun gun as a special great, EX slash elbow armor is cool, f.HP got much better, he retained his parry which is awesome and sledgehammer is useful even if only as a combo extender. Unfortunately he still needs a lot of work and his costume situation is pretty dire. Above all I think all the work they put into animation was the standout improvement to me. Many of them were faithfully recreated and new ones (particularly his throw animations) are fantastic. Ibuki looks pretty barebones next to him. Fortunately for her she has got a strong costume game.
But Chun is still relatively the same in usage she went from 3.6 to 2.8. What I meant was , if a character goes from Top 5 to bottom 5 in tier list. Their usage will still stay roughly the same tier , maybe 1-1.5% change up or down.

Dhalsim aint gonna become a top 5 most used character even if hes S tier and Ryu will not drop from Top 3 even if he is borderline unplayable.
I said this almost word for word a week or two ago haha. Also, I think I see the difference between our thought processes here. I looked at the numbers, but also the number of characters moving up (or how many characters she fell below depending on how you look at it).
 
One thing that sucks is that Urien, Laura,Akuma and a handful of other characters are getting these fancy ass combo videos, so tech for people who use those characters is busted wide open. Meanwhile seeing anything else is so rare that you generally have to scour a top player's videos to see it, and that doesn't even give you a breakdown.

I'm sure that'll flip once the tournaments get underway and people start getting hype with other characters get time to shine.

He's definitely not a win button, but the fact that I've already been accused twice at locals of picking up Urien just cuz he's strong in S2 (despite the fact that I've been playing him since he dropped) anecdotally shows that there is some stigma surrounding the character. I certainly can't have that; it clashes with my philosophy! :p

I'm not suuuuper good at Aegis setups either (mostly just stick with the tried-and-true target combo into sMP, sMP, sHP, crHP and then BnB while using the second mirror as a mixup tool after a knockdown) which I know severely limits my skill ceiling as Urien.

I think a Urien that is a little less reliant on AR setups is a better Urien than one who puts his whole play style on one or two AR combos, because the former isn't going to be left behind when they fuck up a combo.

But nah, man, fuck'em. People will always bitch about a character being flavor of the month, whether or not you liked them before the jump. Shoutouts to Evil Ryu in SF4, Jacky in VF5, and Reborns in Gundam Full Boost.
 

jchung55

Member
Can a super/ultra bronze hoverer get some tips? I main Karin and I've been stuck in this rank loop since launch. I struggle alot when I get pressured constantly and don't know how to get out.

My CFN is jchung, any tips would be appreciated, thanks gaf
 
Can a super/ultra bronze hoverer get some tips? I main Karin and I've been stuck in this rank loop since launch. I struggle alot when I get pressured constantly and don't know how to get out.

My CFN is jchung, any tips would be appreciated, thanks gaf

When you start getting pressured try your best to keep composure and just block.

My biggest problem when starting out was trying to always press buttons when things got hairy. That gets you into more trouble than its worth.

Also use V. Reversals. When an opponent does a strong/slow move thats the best time to throw one out and give yourself some room.
 
Just do what works, I know players like Chris G don't double tap at all. As someone who primarily played 3S, I was told "always double tap unless there is a reason not to" I basically double tap EVERYTHING.
Double tapping is just an objectively better approach really, but yeah, it's not something for me heh. I'll make due.
 

Kashiwaba

Member
I just played the laggiest match ever since launch it was like watching DBZ!.


Edit: WTF! They matched me against the same guy again and this time when i won i got the rookie league error -_-.
 
Some thoughts from a newcomers first day:

Having a blast, been doing some character story mode and survival mode and gained about 200 000 FM first day. Starting to get a feeling of the game, although I mostly button smashing my way to victory. Been winning like 95% of the matches.

Ended the day by trying a VS cpu set to highest difficulty 8 and damn did I got my my ass handed really bad. I intend to play through Most of the single player content Before I purchase ps plus and go online. If I Will be able to beat highest cpu difficulty Most of the Times, what rank would that roughly correspond to online, silver-gold?

Today I Will be doing trials. Can someone please explain one thing. I tried trials yesterday with cammy and couldent figure out the last input for trial one. Think the move called spirial kick/dive and I was supposed to move the stick down and to right, not diagonal but rather like a quarter circle. Also the kick/punch sympol was White but all my symbols for light/medium/strong are coloured inputs. I have no idea what to actually press or how to move the stick. I have done the move outside of trials but by button smashing...

As far as chatacter goes, I find Cammy, Juri and Ken Most enjoyable.

I dont understand why they did not make survival mode more random, its exactly the same levels every time certianly gets more repetitive due to this. Still I find the mode fun but yeah lost on round 28-29 in normal mode..

The game looks and plays fantastic :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom