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Street Fighter V |OTVII| New Generation - Connection To Haters Was Lost

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L

LuciusAxelrod

Member
Finally crawled my way out of Gold Hell and I'm back to Platinum! I feel like I must have punished an average of three sweeps a match (and got hit by at least that many).
 
S

SolarPowered

Member
Edzi said:
I'm not a 3rd strike player, but from what I was hearing most people were pretty pleased with Alex's transition to V. The part we didn't like is that he wasn't that great to begin with compared to the other characters, and then in s2 he got nerfed pretty hard despite that.
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They solved his combo and close range issues from 3S, but they actively nerfed whatever improvements they'd made to his miscreen game in season 1 and he has gotten three new costumes, but none of them are his classic. Two steps forward and one step back with this character. I know people would be pissed if they were stuck with Akuma and Urien's new costumes (the former in particular is bad lol). You can tell they learned from season 1 not to release "normalized" characters with brand new looks and no classic alternative available in some shape or form day 1.
Moaradin said:
Alex is probably better in this game than he was in 3rd Strike relative to the rest of the cast.
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Maybe slightly

The difference honestly isn't as big as you'd think imo. His combo game improved a lot, but his midscreen game which had potential to be improved in season 2 got nerfed further. His specials are a mixed bag too.
Omnistalgic said:
why do you keep saying this. How is it by and large balanced when lower tiers like Alex and Fang got nerfed? It's like you guys won't be satisfied until 10 months of the game being out and a bunch of pros saying the same thing over and over again. I mean I got it, they are talented but I have a functional brain lol. I can't agree with you that 90% of the cast is balanced and fairly matched, to me that's what "by and large means"

Agree with you on the new character thing tho...I think every season should just have at least 1 vet or returning character. But it definitely does pave the way for new videos, learning, and overall newness when different gameplay styles shape up.

I think they could get away with changing up Sagat personally. He's no longer under Bison and all that jazz...
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Season 2 is more balanced, but they went about it in a stupid way with the white life and v-reversal nerfs. The game is even more geared towards RTSD gameplay despite Guile becoming an even stronger zoner. It get boring after a while since the midscreen and defensive game of S2 sucks compared to season 1. It straight up sucks if you were a Nash, Fang or Alex player in season 1, though.
 
C

cackhyena

Member
So I had hardly played the game since September until Akuma dropped. Been playing quite a bit more and mostly in lounges, but I find it crazy that out of all the players I've come across, not one has played Chun. I've played against every other character but it's like she doesn't exist anymore.

Season one was rotten with Chuns. Is she nerfed to oblivion or something?
 
M

Moaradin

Member
Chun is still most likely top tier. No idea why all the Chun players seemingly disappeared. Probably lying low to avoid Capcom's gaze :p
 
X

XenoRaven

Member
Moaradin said:
Chun is still most likely top tier. No idea why all the Chun players seemingly disappeared. Probably lying low to avoid Capcom's gaze :p
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She isn't top tier and they changed how she played and Chun players got annoyed that Capcom is making them relearn their character after a year's worth of work.
 
M

Moaradin

Member
XenoRaven said:
She isn't top tier and they changed how she played and Chun players got annoyed that Capcom is making them relearn their character after a year's worth of work.
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She's relatively unchanged and still has a 3 frame normal. I don't see how she could possibly drop that much with the changes she got.
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
XenoRaven said:
She isn't top tier and they changed how she played and Chun players got annoyed that Capcom is making them relearn their character after a year's worth of work.
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Chi-rithy has gone back to Chun-Li after an extended period with Cammy and he's been doing great with her. She still has all the tools to be a great character, why wouldn't she be strong anymore? And her playstyle hasn't seemingly changed that much unless you relied on air legs all the time. You're talking about her like she got changed dramatically like Nash or Mika.
 
R

Rickenslacker

Banned
I'm pretty happy with the general balance. You're always going to have low tiers and top tiers, but I find it strange how fatalistically the balance is viewed by some communities for SF5.
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
Rickenslacker said:
I'm pretty happy with the general balance. You're always going to have low tiers and top tiers, but I find it strange how fatalistically the balance is viewed by some communities for SF5.
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It's usually not from a macro view that people criticize it, but from a micro view. Certain decisions made from S1 to S2 that just confuse people. Why is Cammy's st.MP now +3 on block? Why is Laura's EX command grab projectile invincible? Why is Urien's cr.MK +2 on block? Stuff like that. Always improvements to be made in that area, which will make things from a macro view better.
 
T

The Mango Sentinel

Member
TheSpoiler said:
Honestly, all they need to do is buff the low tiers and leave the game as it is. If they wanna be extra, throw in more defensive options.

I really want BonChan to do well this season ;_;
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That's the thing though, they don't do that and it's really fucking weird. It's like they feel as if the HAVE to do something to each and every character and not just leave shit alone. It's been driving me insane for years.
 
K

Kashiwaba

Member
I like it when i lose to someone on ranking an he/she is nice enough to send a piece of advise or tip to help me after the game :p
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
Producer said:
GGs flux sorry for the short games i'm gonna eat dinner
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GGs, and that's cool, I would have only been able to play one more set anyways. I think I'm a bit tired; those times when I would sometimes dash right in front of you and then just do nothing for a second weren't intentional, heh.

Tried implementing more st.HK and st.MK/cr.MK as tools to approach now, which seems to be the way to do things. I still get a bit too antsy and then do a bunch of dumb drop kicks, but I'm scaling that back. Jumping too.

What are some mistakes you think I was making in our matches? There was one time where I did the mic when you had super + V-Trigger (I was aware of that too), and then you stopped time to kill me, bringing it to the final round. I kinda didn't care at the moment I was doing it, but then I remembered that I shouldn't just be throwing rounds away like that and there are ways to come back, especially when I had a good amount of health left.
 
S

SolarPowered

Member
kirblar said:
Chun needed to get nerfed. She got nerfed. We'll see how she pans out, they can always nudge her up.
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From what I hear Chun is still very good, but why put in all the work with her when Balrog and Urien do so much more damage easily? People have had this debate before regarding characters in other games (Zero vs many in MvC3 and Sagat vs others in SF4). What it ultimately comes down to is a mix of who has the best match ups and has to do the least amount of work for a great payoff. When you look at it that way it makes sense that people would be choosing Urien, Balrog, Cammy, Laura and Necalli in mass numbers right now. Great characters like Akuma and Chun have health or dexterity issues one has to overcome just to be on par with the stronger characters in the game.

At least she ain't Alex, Fang or Nash, though.
 
S

Sayad

Member
FluxWaveZ said:
It's usually not from a macro view that people criticize it, but from a micro view. Certain decisions made from S1 to S2 that just confuse people. Why is Cammy's st.MP now +3 on block? Why is Laura's EX command grab projectile invincible? Why is Urien's cr.MK +2 on block? Stuff like that. Always improvements to be made in that area, which will make things from a macro view better.
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Didn't almost everyone get a +3 on block normal to have better anti-dp frame traps? Cammy's just happen to be her st.MP. ;p
 
P

Producer

Member
FluxWaveZ said:
GGs, and that's cool, I would have only been able to play one more set anyways. I think I'm a bit tired; those times when I would sometimes dash right in front of you and then just do nothing for a second weren't intentional, heh.

Tried implementing more st.HK and st.MK/cr.MK as tools to approach now, which seems to be the way to do things. I still get a bit too antsy and then do a bunch of dumb drop kicks, but I'm scaling that back. Jumping too.

What are some mistakes you think I was making in our matches? There was one time where I did the mic when you had super + V-Trigger (I was aware of that too), and then you stopped time to kill me, bringing it to the final round. I kinda didn't care at the moment I was doing it, but then I remembered that I shouldn't just be throwing rounds away like that and there are ways to come back, especially when I had a good amount of health left.
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The cMK -> sMK sequence was definately throwing me off haha. Mistakes..i dunno. At times when you were at a defecit you'd do charged dropkick multiple times, though i was too slow to punish most of the times i'd bet better players can punish that. Also after getting a knockdown you'd do the jab, target combo block string, again i cant punish it but better players might. The target combo is still -5 right?
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
Producer said:
The cMK -> sMK sequence was definately throwing me off haha. Mistakes..i dunno. At times when you were at a defecit you'd do charged dropkick multiple times, though i was too slow to punish most of the times i'd bet better players can punish that. Also after getting a knockdown you'd do the jab, target combo block string, again i cant punish it but better players might. The target combo is still -5 right?
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Yeah, that's still -5. Actually, you'd be surprised how many high level players also leave that unpunished. It's a pretty quick sequence where you're thinking about a lot of things Mika could be doing while she's doing it, so you don't often have time to respond unless you're predicting it and/or know the player's tendencies. I think I should be using tic command grabs with more variety, though.

One thing that I know I was messing up earlier on was that you'd usually neutral rise after I hit a shooting peach, so my st.MK follow-up became -3 and punishable. I should have caught on and just dashed > command grabbed more to condition you to do something else.
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
Sayad said:
Wonder where I got that from! Will blame James Chen for now.
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I could be wrong, though. I'm still not clear on all the changes characters got from S1 to S2. I immediately thought to Mika who doesn't have anything like that, as well as Guile's st.MP which became +2 instead of the +3 it was before.
 
S

Sayad

Member
FluxWaveZ said:
I could be wrong, though. I'm still not clear on all the changes characters got from S1 to S2. I immediately thought to Mika who doesn't have anything like that, as well as Guile's st.MP which became +2 instead of the +3 it was before.
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Mika already had a +3 in her forward.HP though didn't she?!
 
T

TheSpoiler

Member
The Mango Sentinel said:
That's the thing though, they don't do that and it's really fucking weird. It's like they feel as if the HAVE to do something to each and every character and not just leave shit alone. It's been driving me insane for years.
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Either let it rock and have people get upset or change it and have people get upset. Unwinnable mixup for all fighting games.
 
B

BlizzKrut

Banned
The Blacks said:
Shit
Haven't played since before the S2 update
Is Alex top tier now?
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Relevant.

l1vq84epvu4y.jpg
 
M

Mœbius

Member
Village said:
I mean I have video. so you all can just tell me what to do, i mean. Should have mentioned that.

Though when in doubt chop them out ( fierce ) is a good strat

Edit: Stream footage, its a lot of matches. Help me get better and stuff
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Didn't watch all of it but from what I saw:

- You're throwing game is good. :)
- You're doing too many random knee drops. Aside from reading and countering fireballs, try to use them sparingly / smartly during block strings and for corner pressure when unexpected, rather than randomly midscreen as a way to get in. Aside from the fact that they don't really give you an advantage, with better players they will blow you up and punish it by just neutral or back jumping.
- You are often raw activating Aegis. It actually worked a few times but I feel like it's a bad habit. It's okay to do sometimes as a get off me or to counter a heavy fireball user; but you should really get used to activating off a hit. You were actually catching your opponents with cr.MK often and this is an easy confirm into Aegis. Practice that more.
- Try to play a few games just focusing on anti-airs; don't worry about winning. Urien's got good AAs now (f.MP and st.MP for far, cr.HP for mid, st.HK for close) and people shouldn't feel like they have free jump-ins on him... I know I know, SFV is a jump simulator but still, don't let players intimidate you with jump-ins (Ryu's in particularly will do this a lot against Urien).
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
Sayad said:
Mika already had a +3 in her forward.HP though didn't she?!
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But now you're comparing a 10f startup move with high block stun and 12f of recovery with a 6f startup move with low block stun and 9f of recovery like they could have the same purpose as a DP bait tool. They don't. That's like saying Alex's lariat could serve as a DP bait tool because it's +3; both that, Lady Mika and Balrog's st.HK don't work the same way in terms of pressure as Cammy's st.MP.
 
C

CountBlack

Member
Omnistalgic said:
It's only affected like 4 characters don't be ridiculous...the increase in 50/50, how character tiers seem to have switched around and the game doesn't seem more balanced, and a list of other things.

I'm sure you think Laura is fair and balanced tho and love the DP nerf. Everyone is biased in some way, but honestly, even without Ken being touched I would have taken a long break. This is purely coming from me watching matches now and updates. So you can save the smart remarks...
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Apart from Laura currently taking Mika's old spot in the tier list, I don't think there was necessarily a huge increase on 50/50's. IMO Urien would've slowly would've been top 10 in S1 if it stuck around for longer or if he came out earlier. The rest of the top 5/10 don't rely on it that much imo.

Do I think Laura is fair and balanced in this patch? Not really. There's a few things that I don't think are necessary like +1 elbow after VT command throw, but I also don't think people have learned the proper defensive tools against Laura either. A lot of players get away with fake pressure/blockstrings/mixups that have options against it, but the players don't yet know it, which is really on yall for not knowing how to deal with it properly. I also think the input lag helps her and a few other characters out a bit which needs to still be lowered. Tbh I really don't know why Capcom took away Mika's cr.HP being +1 and gave it to Laura but it'll probably be removed soon enough anyway lol.

In regards to DP's, I don't just like the change as a Laura player, I just don't think it made any sense for some of the most offensive characters in this game to have it. Cammy/Necalli/Ken are all straight RTSD characters that also has a get off me card to use at any given point really doesn't make sense imo. If their going to have it, then share the wealth to the rest of the cast that's getting knocked down once and instantly losing as well. I've said this before but DP's should never trade with jump ins when it's done deep though, I'll always agree with that.

I think the balancing for the game is more or less kind of the same. Chun negated pretty much the entire cast just off the strength of her tool set and now Guile does that in her space. Necalli/Cammy/Ken are still all viable. Nash was on his way out of the top 10 by the end of S1 now he's definitely out of it. Ryu I really don't know where he stands right now. Laura replaced Mika. Urien/Balrog are on the come up. Overall there's a lot more viable characters in this season imo.

IMO the list of viable characters for this current version of S2:
  • Guile
  • Necalli
  • Laura
  • Mika
  • Chun
  • Cammy
  • Ken
  • Urien
  • Balrog
  • Bison
  • Rashid
  • Ibuki
  • Akuma (maybe lol, gotta wait til CPT starts)
  • Dhalsim
  • Karin
  • Zangief
  • Birdie
All of the characters listed imo could win a fairly stacked tournament.

Characters that I don't think are currently viable are: Fang/Vega/Juri/Alex/Nash/Ryu

I have no idea what they're doing with Fang/Alex and they were probably better off in S1. Nash got smashed with the nerf stick because of Infiltration's sins. (also 3 Nash's top 3 at evo is a big sign). Infiltration will probably prove me wrong with Juri, but with barely anyone currently playing her I don't really see what makes her that great. I also barely know the MU lol. Vega is a good character, but I can't see him running through a whole tournament bracket by himself, his defensive options are still way too poor imo and his offense still isn't that scary. Ryu is in a weird spot where I think he's still viable and I don't think he is. He's a solid character but.. I really don't know what he's supposed to do now lol. And Guile shuts him down worse than before.

Viable characters in S1 going off of tournament results:

  • Chun
  • Guile
  • Mika
  • Ryu
  • Ken
  • Necalli
  • Nash
  • Karin

Overall I think the balancing is better in S2 with more characters being viable. With Chun being nerfed, that has already opened up a door way for more characters to have a breathing chance at winning instead of getting stomped down by her. The tournament season hasn't started and they've already teased at a balance patch coming so the tiers could get flipped around again before CPT starts.

sixteen-bit said:
What if she has ice powers normally but then gets fire in V-Trigger as a callback to Gill
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What if she has resurrection and her name changes to Elena?
 
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