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Student dies after school refuses to let him carry a second inhaler

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T

tbm24

Member
Having had asthma as a kid, and attacks, unless they let this kid lay on the floor for an extended period of time, if he died on his way to his inhaler I don't think the puffer was going to save him. Ambulance should have been called immediately if it was a severe attack(which presumably it was and that should have been noticed immediately).

I will point out, I always had my inhaler with me, I never did tell the school though because it never occurred to me or my mom.
 
I

Ithil

Member
I don't know if they realise this, but the inhaler isn't an AK-47. It's medicine, medicine kids with asthma kinda need in order to live.
That's like lacking a diabetic person's insulin in an office because it has a needle in it.
 
I

Impeccable

Member
Ithil said:
I don't know if they realise this, but the inhaler isn't an AK-47. It's medicine, medicine kids with asthma kinda need in order to live.
That's like lacking a diabetic person's insulin in an office because it has a needle in it.
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They keep almost all medications this way to prevent children from improper usage that would result in more outcry. People put so many pressures on teachers and school administrators to be absolutely perfect and unflinching that when an unfortunate accident occurs they themselves are the ones who cry for change - which will most likely result in MORE limitations.

It's easy to blame the school because it's the easy out. The mother doesn't know how the whole day unfolded and neither do any of us. How a twelve year old child failed to recognize his impending asthma attack and didn't seek help in the earlier phases of an attack actually supports medications being dispensed by principals and lead teachers.

I can say without a shadow of a doubt that if a child was allowed to have their medication and be in control of their medication and that got into the hands of another child or worse yet caused a child to die to improper use the outcry would be far more echoing and damning.

Yes, I have a tiny bit of a stake in this - my wife is going to be a school principle in a year or two. It fucking terrifies me that people are so quick to blame and look for a fall guy. You can be a literally perfect and that one time that 0.00000000004% case occurs THIS is the kind of reaction the general public has. You can never have a rational discussion when people never intend to have one.
 
S

smr00

Banned
Hopefully they sue the shit out of the school.

I had an asthma attack during gym class outside which my doctor specifically said for me not to do during summer because of my allergies and how it effects my breathing yet the school made me do it and i had an asthma attack and instead of the gym teacher going to get my inhaler from the office because i wasn't allowed to carry it, i had to run to the office myself. My parents immediately removed me from the school and filed a complaint, gym teacher got fired for it.

It's absurd that he wasn't allowed to carry a second inhaler and i hope the parents take the school for everything they are worth and i know it won't bring the kid back but an example needs to be set for this kind of shit.
 
M

Mammoth Jones

Member
Fiktion said:
What was the rationale? I don't get it.
Click to expand...

Can't have kids doing drugs! It's probably a matter of liability.

Impeccable said:
They keep almost all medications this way to prevent children from improper usage that would result in more outcry. People put so many pressures on teachers and school administrators to be absolutely perfect and unflinching that when an unfortunate accident occurs they themselves are the ones who cry for change - which will most likely result in MORE limitations.

It's easy to blame the school because it's the easy out. The mother doesn't know how the whole day unfolded and neither do any of us. How a twelve year old child failed to recognize his impending asthma attack and didn't seek help in the earlier phases of an attack actually supports medications being dispensed by principals and lead teachers.

I can say without a shadow of a doubt that if a child was allowed to have their medication and be in control of their medication and that got into the hands of another child or worse yet caused a child to die to improper use the outcry would be far more echoing and damning.

Yes, I have a tiny bit of a stake in this - my wife is going to be a school principle in a year or two. It fucking terrifies me that people are so quick to blame and look for a fall guy. You can be a literally perfect and that one time that 0.00000000004% case occurs THIS is the kind of reaction the general public has. You can never have a rational discussion when people never intend to have one.
Click to expand...

This is a valid point.

We kept our medicine in the principles office. And the aides that kept and eye on us would always remind the kids with asthma (me at the time) to take it easy.
 
T

tbm24

Member
smr00 said:
Hopefully they sue the shit out of the school.

I had an asthma attack during gym class outside which my doctor specifically said for me not to do during summer because of my allergies and how it effects my breathing yet the school made me do it and i had an asthma attack and instead of the gym teacher going to get my inhaler from the office because i wasn't allowed to carry it, i had to run to the office myself. My parents immediately removed me from the school and filed a complaint, gym teacher got fired for it.

It's absurd that he wasn't allowed to carry a second inhaler and i hope the parents take the school for everything they are worth and i know it won't bring the kid back but an example needs to be set for this kind of shit.
Click to expand...
By closing down a school? What does that solve? Also of your doctor said that why didn't you bring a note? That's what I did.
 
Hari Seldon

Hari Seldon

Member
Impeccable said:
They keep almost all medications this way to prevent children from improper usage that would result in more outcry. People put so many pressures on teachers and school administrators to be absolutely perfect and unflinching that when an unfortunate accident occurs they themselves are the ones who cry for change - which will most likely result in MORE limitations.

It's easy to blame the school because it's the easy out. The mother doesn't know how the whole day unfolded and neither do any of us. How a twelve year old child failed to recognize his impending asthma attack and didn't seek help in the earlier phases of an attack actually supports medications being dispensed by principals and lead teachers.

I can say without a shadow of a doubt that if a child was allowed to have their medication and be in control of their medication and that got into the hands of another child or worse yet caused a child to die to improper use the outcry would be far more echoing and damning.

Yes, I have a tiny bit of a stake in this - my wife is going to be a school principle in a year or two. It fucking terrifies me that people are so quick to blame and look for a fall guy. You can be a literally perfect and that one time that 0.00000000004% case occurs THIS is the kind of reaction the general public has. You can never have a rational discussion when people never intend to have one.
Click to expand...

Ummm isn't the common sense thing to do would be to have actual real doctors make decisions as to which medications are necessary to be on hand at all times rather than school officials with no medical training?

This school wouldn't even pass an OSHA inspection with this shit locked away.
 
I

Impeccable

Member
Hari Seldon said:
Ummm isn't the common sense thing to do would be to have actual real doctors make decisions as to which medications are necessary to be on hand at all times rather than school officials with no medical training?

This school wouldn't even pass an OSHA inspection with this shit locked away.
Click to expand...

You honestly think a child is going to be more responsible with their medication than having it safely stored where it is easily obtained at all times?

The kid didn't even recognize he NEEDED the medication until it was too late. Now you have to assume he didn't lose it or had it on him. Then you have to assume (yes, this is a stretch in the case of an inhaler) that he knew how to properly use the medication.

I'm sorry but it's easy to knee jerk a reaction when that one freak accident occurs and make some big hub-bub overreaction about health and safety protocols that evidently work.
 
Hale-XF11

Hale-XF11

Member
Enron said:
When I was a kid, kids could carry these on their person. What the fuck?
Click to expand...

Same here. In fact, my doctor ordered me to carry my inhaler on me at all times in case of an asthma attack and it's saved me on more than one occasion.
 
T

Troubleman1990

Banned
Wow that's fucked up, if that was my kid I would have fought so my could have kept it on his person.
I mean seriously what the fuck.

and that joey fox dude WHAT THE FUCK!
 
Hari Seldon

Hari Seldon

Member
Impeccable said:
You honestly think a child is going to be more responsible with their medication than having it safely stored where it is easily obtained at all times?

The kid didn't even recognize he NEEDED the medication until it was too late. Now you have to assume he didn't lose it or had it on him. Then you have to assume (yes, this is a stretch in the case of an inhaler) that he knew how to properly use the medication.

I'm sorry but it's easy to knee jerk a reaction when that one freak accident occurs and make some big hub-bub overreaction about health and safety protocols that evidently work.
Click to expand...

A doctor's orders trump any rules made by some plebian school official as far as I am concerned. I don't recall university education degrees requiring medical school.
 
O

one_kill

Member
Impeccable said:
You honestly think a child is going to be more responsible with their medication than having it safely stored where it is easily obtained at all times?

The kid didn't even recognize he NEEDED the medication until it was too late. Now you have to assume he didn't lose it or had it on him. Then you have to assume (yes, this is a stretch in the case of an inhaler) that he knew how to properly use the medication.

I'm sorry but it's easy to knee jerk a reaction when that one freak accident occurs and make some big hub-bub overreaction about health and safety protocols that evidently work.
Click to expand...
C'mon dude, the kid knew he needed an inhaler but just couldn't get there on time. Asthma symptoms can get worse real quickly.

zazrx said:
I had it as a kid, but then it went away. It happens.
Click to expand...
It doesn't go away. The symptoms may lessen in time, but you still have it.
 
Y

You Are Viewtiful

Member
Petrie said:
Shocked he was banned here. He isn't wrong about this being natural selection, as crass and unfeeling as it may be. I'm a type 1 diabetic myself and natural selection clearly wants to ween me out of the gene pool, and only through artificial means am I able to survive. This is the same for this situation.

It's sad and unfortunate, but it is also natural selection at work by survival of the fittest, is it not?

My insulin had to be kept in the nurses office. I always found that a bit absurd.
Click to expand...

It Is not natural selection, it is the North American's manufacturing belt and the dirty air that blows north and east into Ontario.

prev_map.gif


Ontario is sandwiched between Michigan and New York. Asthma may be genetic but it is exacerbated largely by environmental conditions.
 
I

Impeccable

Member
Hari Seldon said:
A doctor's orders trump any rules made by some plebian school official as far as I am concerned. I don't recall university education degrees requiring medical school.
Click to expand...

Not sure it's worth going on with you with the "plebian school official" combined with your lack of knowledge of the Canadian educational system, to be fair.

one_kill said:
C'mon dude, the kid knew he needed an inhaler but just couldn't get there on time. Asthma symptoms can get worse real quickly.
Click to expand...

You'd have to assume he had the inhaler on him, he's a kid.
Then you have to wonder why it took so long for his friends to help.
Then you have to wonder why he didn't alert on duty staff or nearby students for help. Someone is always nearby.

Truthfully, in all schools there is someone with access to the medication in the office at all times. This is a freak accident that sucks but the system works and makes sense.

That's not to say there isn't someone at fault (after the investigation of events) but the level of idiotic and uninformed posts in here is dire.
 
O

Omegasquash

Member
Impeccable said:
Not sure it's worth going on with you with the "plebian school official" combined with your lack of knowledge of the Canadian educational system, to be fair.



You'd have to assume he had the inhaler on him, he's a kid.
Then you have to wonder why it took so long for his friends to help.
Then you have to wonder why he didn't alert on duty staff or nearby students for help. Someone is always nearby.

Truthfully, in all schools there is someone with access to the medication in the office at all times. This is a freak accident that sucks but the system works and makes sense.

That's not to say there isn't someone at fault (after the investigation of events) but the level of idiotic and uninformed posts in here is dire.
Click to expand...

Saying it's a freak accident doesn't excuse the fact that the system did NOT work, in this case. It's known that asthma attacks can escalate really quick. Given that, a prescribed inhaler should have been allowed for the child to carry.
 
Hale-XF11

Hale-XF11

Member
Yeah, no. Asthma attacks are not freak accidents. There's a reason doctors tell their patients to carry an inhaler on them at all times, but especially during work/school hours. It can be dangerous to go without it for some.
 
J

jimi_dini

Member
Petrie said:
But other people creating those things allowing him to survive flies in the face of natural selection. Natural selection was part of what happened here. That's all.
Click to expand...

No, it didn't.

this:
- your body needs insulin
- there is insulin available, but some crazy person locks it away from you/some asshole wants more money for it than you have, resulting in you being dead

and this:
- your body needs insulin
- noone has a clue about it, noone can help you, so you die

is not the same thing. The latter could be called "natural selection" (still extremly tasteless), the former is simply not. It's murder or maybe manslaughter.

Otherwise you could also call it "natural selection", when humans in 3rd world countries starve to death. It's also not "natural selection", when humans die because they were unable to buy medicine. There is nothing natural about it.

The technology excuse also doesn't work. Without all the crap that comes with this "civilized", "technologised" and "modern" world, the student may have never gotten asthma in the first place. And maybe you also wouldn't have gotten diabetes as well.

If anything in this thread is natural selection, then it was this here:
Joey Fox
Banned
(Today, 06:56 PM)
 
I

Impeccable

Member
Omegasquash said:
Saying it's a freak accident doesn't excuse the fact that the system did NOT work, in this case. It's known that asthma attacks can escalate really quick. Given that, a prescribed inhaler should have been allowed for the child to carry.
Click to expand...

No - the asthma attack isn't the freak accident. The failure of the system in this particular case is the freak accident. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
 
R

Redd

Member
I remember that law when I was in school. Stupid law then, stupid law now. I still just carried my inhaler on me and didn't tell anyone about it.
 
I

Iadien

Guarantee I'm going to screw up this post? Yeah.
That's messed up. I had a friend growing up that had pretty bad asthma attacks, and one time he forgot his inhaler and had an attack and I had to run to his house and back. Luckily it was very close by and I was around when it happened.
 
Hale-XF11

Hale-XF11

Member
Impeccable said:
You honestly think a child is going to be more responsible with their medication than having it safely stored where it is easily obtained at all times
Click to expand...

This is the dumbest thing I've read in this thread. Everything about this statement screams ignorance.
 
L

Lionheart1337

Member
CrankyJay said:
Jesus Christ at the "natural selection" comment...
Click to expand...

I can't believe I read that, lol.

Well, the assumption is that he's a social darwinist to say something like that, the way he said it. Could be wrong. Would've liked to see a follow up post. Just felt like one of those comments on youtube idiots trying to be stuntmen or something.
 
Zomba13

Zomba13

Member
I knew a guy with asthma in school. Knew him since before we were 12 and he always had his inhaler on him. School always let him carry it around because it's common fucking sense.
 
B

bonesmccoy

Banned
What a terrible and tragic story.

My friends with asthma carried their inhalers with them at all times at school. We never messed around with it, teased the kid etc. I wonder what caused the school to adopt this rule.
 
Hari Seldon

Hari Seldon

Member
Impeccable said:
Not sure it's worth going on with you with the "plebian school official" combined with your lack of knowledge of the Canadian educational system, to be fair.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but some jobber without a medical degree shouldn't be making one-size-fits-all medical safety decisions. If that is the way the "system" works, then the system is fucking stupid and worthy of scorn.
 
J

Jayof9s

Member
Impeccable said:
Not sure it's worth going on with you with the "plebian school official" combined with your lack of knowledge of the Canadian educational system, to be fair.

You'd have to assume he had the inhaler on him, he's a kid.
Click to expand...

As someone that grew up with severe asthma, you don't go anywhere without your inhaler. When your ability to breathe depends on it, even a child is capable of remembering it. Shocking, that children can figure these things out themselves, I know.

Then you have to wonder why it took so long for his friends to help.
Click to expand...

You can go from fine to completely unable to breathe very quickly. I don't know the series of events but I'm guessing it was a pretty bad attack if he died before he got his rescue inhaler. They don't always get gradually worse, it can set in very quickly.

Then you have to wonder why he didn't alert on duty staff or nearby students for help. Someone is always nearby.
Click to expand...

It sounds like he did. But they sure didn't get him to the inhaler in time.

Truthfully, in all schools there is someone with access to the medication in the office at all times. This is a freak accident that sucks but the system works and makes sense.

That's not to say there isn't someone at fault (after the investigation of events) but the level of idiotic and uninformed posts in here is dire.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. Your posts make it clear you don't know anything about asthma or the medications to treat it.

And while you've got the stake of your wife possibly, someday, being a principle, I've got the 'personal' stake in this as a kid that probably would have died had I been forced to follow the same rules 20 years ago. You can spout 'safety' all you want, albuterol isn't exactly harmful.

If the misuse of a medication was potentially more harmful than what it was there to help, then I might agree with you. But the worst that would happen if some kid decided to take a bunch of puffs of albuterol is that they might get a little shaky. Clearly worth putting it behind lock and key and out of reach of the hands of someone that desperately needs it to stay alive /sarcasm.
 
F

Fusebox

Banned
I had asthma as a kid and always had my puffers with me at school, I can't believe someone would institute such a stupid fucking policy as this one. Sad story. Hope the idiot who thought up the policy feels like a piece of shit now.
 
I

Impeccable

Member
Jayof9s said:
And while you've got the stake of your wife possibly, someday, being a principle, I've got the 'personal' stake in this as a kid that probably would have died had I been forced to follow the same rules 20 years ago. You can spout 'safety' all you want, albuterol isn't exactly harmful.

If the misuse of a medication was potentially more harmful than what it was there to help, then I might agree with you. But the worst that would happen if some kid decided to take a bunch of puffs of albuterol is that they might get a little shaky.
Click to expand...

My wife has asthma and I'm more than aware of how it works.

Too many factors in today's age of red tape to just say, "needs to be this way". People whine and cry about too much and this system is the result of that. Does it need to be changed? Yeah, for children over a certain age. This is an example.
 
L

LaserBuddha

Member
Fusebox said:
I had asthma as a kid and always had my puffers with me at school, I can't believe someone would institute such a stupid fucking policy as this one. Sad story. Hope the idiot who thought up the policy feels like a piece of shit now.
Click to expand...
As I said before, I don't even understand how a body of people who are not qualified medical professionals even have the authority to allow or withhold medical needs as they deem necessary. I just can't even understand the hubris it takes to get to that point.
 
J

Jayof9s

Member
Impeccable said:
My wife has asthma and I'm more than aware of how it works.

Too many factors in today's age of red tape to just say, "needs to be this way". People whine and cry about too much and this system is the result of that. Does it need to be changed? Yeah, for children over a certain age. This is an example.
Click to expand...

Asthma as an adult is almost always extremely different than as a child. Now a days, I can go days or weeks without needing a rescue inhaler and even when it does bother me, it's usually pretty minor and more of an annoyance than life threatening.

But maybe your wife still has severe asthma as an adult, but I'm guessing not because your posts make it pretty clear you don't know what severe asthma attacks are like.
 
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