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Summer 2014 Anime |OT| this thread has been outsourced to Toei Phils

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S

SliceSabre

Banned
Midonin said:
This is actually a question I've been wanting to discuss, because certain genres - harem (romantic comedy), slice of life/moe (daily life) and ecchi/fanservice - are often assumed to be inherently bad in discussion, giving them a handicap to overcome that doesn't seem to be imposed on other genres. I wonder if it's a coincidence that all of them involve heavy amounts of female characters.

Which is one of the things that annoys me. The focus in these series is supposed to be on the girls, and that's not a bad thing. But people get preoccupied with the main/male lead, and usually how he's not confident or "badass" enough. Which I find, to be blunt, stupid. To bring up a point of comparison, both my favorite and my least favorite character for examples are played by the same guy.

Acchi Kocchi's Io is a good example of what a character should be like. He's confident and sure, a little dense, but his biggest trait is his kind heart. Hagure Yuusha's Akatsuki is actually the first character in a harem/fantasy anime I can remember actively disliking. That harassment scene at the start of episode 2 - which, by the method of not being an accident was genuinely off-putting - was something that my impression of him never recovered from. He doesn't look like a "badass", he looks like a creep.

I get that people want girls to be stronger characters, but if we're really going to go that route, than more people should be okay with guys being weaker characters as well. Those who help people in anime don't have always have an ulterior motive, and if they do, it can be a flaw used for interesting storytelling. Even if it's an action series, a character should be defined by how they are off the battlefield, not on it.

Mostly I just want the genres I like, and the ones that I feel represent anime to me, should get a little more respect and not have this "guilty until proven innocent" stigma. Something shouldn't be good in spite of being a harem series, it should be good because it's a harem series. Even last season's Gaworare managed to take that familiarity and play with it in an interesting way.

I get why things like sci-fi and action and whatnot have their appeal in the Western fandom, but separating everything that's not those into a sort of second class that has an artificially higher hurdle to clear in order to be considered "good" or "legit good", however subjective those are, isn't exactly fair.




He's actually the one protagonist I really, really dislike.
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One of my biggest things about a harem is the winner. And by winner I mean it not being totally and completely obvious that tsundere first girl MC meets is the preferred girl I like harems where I honestly cannot tell if any one girl is going to actually wins the guy's affections. If it is totally obvious that that one certain girl is clearly the only one that even matters, then the rest of the girls are background noise till MC and that girl confess.
 
A

Admiral Woofington

Member
R_thanatos said:
Using gintama in a discussion about anime is cheating

Beside this was obviously a DECONSTRUCTION of the harem genre.
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NB0fVRk.gif


best girl <3
 
M

Midonin

Member
Ryuukan said:
I love that kind of harem show and protagonist.
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That's why I prefer Issei to Akatsuki every time. Issei cries with Rias once for emotional support. He frequently makes himself look like a dork. He does some dumb things. But even when he's perverted, his intentions are never to cause trouble for anyone. He has empathy.

And that makes a huge difference.

SliceSabre said:
If it is totally obvious that that one certain girl is clearly the only one that even matters, then the rest of the girls are background noise till MC and that girl confess.
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But they're romantic comedies. The comedy is just as important as the romance. The other girls can be there to bring out things about the main couple, and be compelling in their own right even if they don't win. Romance is an endgame, but it's not always the endgame.
 
C

Caesnd

Member
cajunator said:
As more and more CG work is undertaken with well financed projects I think the overall quality of CG animation in Japan will rise as the talent pool improves. however, keeping anime CG distinctive from other CG will be the main challenge. Anime has a "look" that sets it apart.
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Well, Japanese art in general has a "look", so to speak. Where modern western art has its roots firmly planted in the European traditional art practices, anime and manga are heavily entwined with the practical mentality and philosophy of calligraphy, ink painting ,ukiyo-e and the various paper arts etc.There is no doubt that Japanese CG work shares those same aesthetical sensibilities.
 
R

R_thanatos

Member
cajunator said:
This is hilarious yet true.



One of my favorite harem protags is Tomoki from Sora No Otoshimono. While it is still a fanservice filled "trashy" harem show, this one is pretty self aware, and Tomoki is actually a likable lecher as opposed to a dumb chick magnet. He has a fun personality and knows what he wants, but still has a kind heart and cares for people. I love that kind of harem show and protagonist.
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This is funny because i never considered Sora no otoshimo to be harem , just a very good comedy.heck from whaty i've read of the manga it is just so on the opposite fo what a harem lead is that i have a hard time accepting him as a harem lead.
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
What's the point of a strong harem protagonist if he's just as dickless as any other harem protagonist though? The reason why School Days guy is interesting is because he acts on his sexual desires.
 
M

Midonin

Member
R_thanatos said:
This is funny because i never considered Sora no otoshimo to be harem , just a very good comedy.heck from whaty i've read of the manga it is just so on the opposite fo what a harem lead is that i have a hard time accepting him as a harem lead.
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I've linked this article before, but I feel it's relevant. And it ties into some of what I was saying about demographics yesterday. Anime is a lot broader than people give it credit for.

firehawk12 said:
What's the point of a strong harem protagonist if he's just as dickless as any other harem protagonist though? The reason why School Days guy is interesting is because he acts on his sexual desires.
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Because sex isn't everything in a relationship? In a story-driven eroge, the H-scenes rarely take up that much time. They can reaffirm the couples' relationship, but it's not the reason why they're together or even the end goal.
 
S

SliceSabre

Banned
firehawk12 said:
What's the point of a strong harem protagonist if he's just as dickless as any other harem protagonist though? The reason why School Days guy is interesting is because he acts on his sexual desires.
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That falls into the old trap of "If they actually acted like young people then it might as well be hentai."
 
Z

ZachDeKoromaru

Banned
I wouldn't call Henneko a harem but there's no wrong choice for girls and MC's a likable doofus (Yuki Kaiji pls only play these characters forever). Based King of Steeeeeeeeeeeel.
 
L

Link Man

Banned
Would Negima be considered an example of a good harem? It provides two very good reasons for Negi not to choose a true partner, and many of the characters have good backstories and character development. And Negi himself is quite the badass.

Of course, talking about the manga here.
 
C

cajunator

Banned
Midonin said:
I've linked this article before, but I feel it's relevant. And it ties into some of what I was saying about demographics yesterday. Anime is a lot broader than people give it credit for.


Because sex isn't everything in a relationship? In a story-driven eroge, the H-scenes rarely take up that much time. They can reaffirm the couples' relationship, but it's not the reason why they're together or even the end goal.
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SnO does go above the typical harem trappings occasionally but it still as the look and feel of one. Kind of like Midori days isnt one at all but still has some elements of a harem show to keep things interesting. I love shows that dont just pigeonhole themselves into a harem role and nothing else.
 
M

Midonin

Member
ZachDeKoromaru said:
I wouldn't call Henneko a harem but there's no wrong choice for girls and MC's a likable doofus (Yuki Kaiji pls only play these characters forever). Based King of Steeeeeeeeeeeel.
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But if it satisfies all the requirements for a harem and plays within the rules of that genre but is still enjoyable, what's the shame in calling it one? It shouldn't be an insult.
 
C

cajunator

Banned
Midonin said:
But if it satisfies all the requirements for a harem and plays within the rules of that genre but is still enjoyable, what's the shame in calling it one? It shouldn't be an insult.
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Exactly what I was saying. Harem doesnt have to be an insult. If anything it gives strength to the word through the show being a good example. Harem no longer becomes just another meaning for shit.
 
P

Psycho_Mantis

Banned
Firemind said:
Can't you just type the name of the show instead of being a smartass and post a one second long GIF? I mean what is that? Golden Boy? Some of us don't have encyclopedic knowledge of everything that encompasses anime, nor have the long term memory of shows that aired in the past century.
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tumblr_menambzX0A1qe6zbao1_500.jpg


My bad.

I used to be like you....then I figured you could have google search the image/gif. You could also ask :)
 
S

SliceSabre

Banned
Link Man said:
Would Negima be considered an example of a good harem? It provides two very good reasons for Negi not to choose a true partner, and many of the characters have good backstories and character development. And Negi himself is quite the badass.

Of course, talking about the manga here.
Click to expand...
Ending killed all hope of it ever being considered good anything in my book.
 
M

mankoto

Member
Chuunibyo S2 12 END
So close and yet so far. Although I expected nothing happening anyway.

But the most important thing is, was Isshiki
"deflowered" by that Chihiro guy? When Yuuta left the room you see flowers falling off of the curtain with Isshiki screaming right after that.

At the end of the day, ultimately nothing changed except the addition of a childhood friend that got very little screentime. That being said, I understand why people said "season 2 didn't happen," because like I said, it didn't add much and had a "and they lived happily ever after," end to boot. The season itself was fine in itself otherwise.
 
P

Psycho_Mantis

Banned
Chariot said:
This is a show I never watched and never had a urge to watch, as often as people it may recommend. Something just holds me back there.
Click to expand...

One of the funniest shows I have ever watched if not the funniest.

Amazing Kentaro, hot women ( please note they are unfortunately 2D ), comedy and it has great animation.
 
R

R_thanatos

Member
firehawk12 said:
What's the point of a strong harem protagonist if he's just as dickless as any other harem protagonist though? The reason why School Days guy is interesting is because he acts on his sexual desires.
Click to expand...
I feel that if the MC is confident enough to keep going ( because that what he is , because he can do it or whatever ) That's much more intresting
The school day MC , was a dark horse that unleashed hell upon us BUT at least he kept goingt untill the endthere was no drama about what he needed to do .
The most horrible thing that can happen to an Harem lead is HESITATION.

He need to guts , the courage to say " i want them BOTH , i want them ALL , DEAL WITH IT" and go with it untill the end. IF a character can't do that he is just a Trash Key-like protagonist that need to die in a fire.

Midonin said:
I've linked this article before, but I feel it's relevant. And it ties into some of what I was saying about demographics yesterday. Anime is a lot broader than people give it credit for.
Click to expand...

I agree but that show in particular is so much a blend of things even if the main focus is comedy that it's hard to put it in a certain genre ( even if you want just to definte it ) , the manga goes into a sub-plot about
what make one human and the choices in power
that i'm honnestly and genuily confused.
 
M

Midonin

Member
ZachDeKoromaru said:
I think it just leans more on comedy than anything else!
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Like I said, most harem anime are classified under romantic comedy, and having more comedy than romance doesn't necessarily disqualify it.

And even if the lead isn't perverted/decisive, that shouldn't be a negative. Machismo is an ultimately futile goal to strive for, and even in cases where characters are praised for that, I try to see it another way. I didn't like F/Z's Rider because he was a bro or badass, I liked him because he was magnanimous.

cajunator said:
Henneko was a glorious example of harem characteristics working for a show without becoming one.
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Though this phrasing still seems to imply that "becoming [a harem]" is a bad thing. It's an issue in the anime fanbase that's never gone away, and I really want to argue against. Not even playing devil's advocate, but earnestly.
 
F

Firemind

Member
Psycho_Mantis said:
My bad.

I used to be like you....then I figured you could have google search the image/gif. You could also ask :)
Click to expand...

I checked the source and it was a tumblr file name. I just don't understand why you would take the effort to find, copy and paste the url of a GIF, which isn't even supposed to be funny, instead of typing a few words, which is much more informative. Maybe I'm just too old for this world. /oldmanyellsatcloud
 
C

cajunator

Banned
Midonin said:
Like I said, most harem anime are classified under romantic comedy, and having more comedy than romance doesn't necessarily disqualify it.

And even if the lead isn't perverted/decisive, that shouldn't be a negative. Machismo is an ultimately futile goal to strive for, and even in cases where characters are praised for that, I try to see it another way. I didn't like F/Z's Rider because he was a bro or badass, I liked him because he was magnanimous.


Though this phrasing still seems to imply that "becoming [a harem]" is a bad thing. It's an issue in the anime fanbase that's never gone away, and I really want to argue against. Not even playing devil's advocate, but earnestly.
Click to expand...

Its not that being a harem is bad in that case just Henneko isnt actually one.
 
R

R_thanatos

Member
Admiral Woofington said:
If we're going the strength and decisive route, then that would mean that Kirito-kun is the best lead in a harem. It's the smartest anime I have seen in a while.
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Can you stop bringing SAO into this?
It's not even a harem anime,
you can't have a harem when nobody is fighting for the prize.

Link Man said:
Would Negima be considered an example of a good harem? It provides two very good reasons for Negi not to choose a true partner, and many of the characters have good backstories and character development. And Negi himself is quite the badass.

Of course, talking about the manga here.
Click to expand...

Negima is clearly a harem manga , i mean look at the cast , however it was obvious that only a part of that cast would be as important as negi.
The switch from generic comedy to batlle manga was trully what the manga needed.

SliceSabre said:
Ending killed all hope of it ever being considered good anything in my book.
Click to expand...

I'm still salty about the istanbul arc , BUT at least it was a good journey to get there.
 
N

nintendoman58

Member
On the subject of harem anime, I hate it. I really do. They are all nothing but mindless hijinks between one guy and 5 or more other girls. It starts with nothing and ends with nothing. There's NOTHING good coming from them except for the mindless fanservice they always go on about.

And their story descriptions almost ALWAYS start with: "X was an ordinary boy until event Y happened in his life and now girls surround him".

Harem anime should be more heartfelt. I'd be okay with a guy's circle of friends consisting nothing of women if they were actual characters rather than "waifu war" material. They don't have to be overly angsty or dramatic. Just make them calming and peaceful.

There should be a "Healing Harem" anime.

Eureka Seven - 15

Dammit Renton!
You should have come up with some excuse to leave the second you saw the wanted poster!

Ooh, what's going on with the Nirvash that's got Eureka all riled up?

Wow, that was depressing at the end. Renton's uncle was only doing what he thought was right for him. The guy didn't deserve that :(
 
A

Admiral Woofington

Member
Firemind said:
I checked the source and it was a tumblr file name. I just don't understand why you would take the effort to find, copy and paste the url of a GIF, which isn't even supposed to be funny, instead of typing a few words, which is much more informative. Maybe I'm just too old for this world. /oldmanyellsatcloud
Click to expand...

Keep this up moleman and nobody will be gay for you.


edit: on the subject of harems, for some reason I really liked this one http://myanimelist.net/anime/5781/Isekai_no_Seikishi_Monogatari

Not particularly because the harem aspect was great, I just enjoyed the power fantasy and the sweet action scenes.
 
M

mankoto

Member
I remember hearing decent things about Negima until the manga ended... And when it ended, it was like all hell broke loose. What exactly happened (without spoilers if possible)?

Edit:
nvm read a few posts up. Considering how long the series lasted and for it to end that way is...
 
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