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[Aaron-Lagann]

That's how I interpreted it as well so you're not alone.

Same. Though that's honestly my default for all of Xir's posts at this point.

 

[DoktorEvil]

What you're saying sounds a little too rigid for writing to me. As if writing is math and there's always a perfect solution for character actions and story themes. Or I'm just misunderstanding you.

This is an alright time to mention I just finished episode 13 of Gintama. It's funny at times, but I'm not finding it hilarious majority of the time yet. People keep saying 25 or so is when it starts picking it up, so eh. I'll stick through because why not. Might just take Vidula's advice and watch an episode or two every day or so. It's just a little tempting to marathon it since I want to see it get better sooner.

Not formulas as in math formulas.

Formulas as in that undefinable "secret sauce" that makes something good/enjoyable.

Every art form has technical aspects. Painters have to paint, music has composition and sonorous qualities, and all of that is a part of how they execute. Even those things can be judged subjectively, you can personally enjoy them, but it's not like you can't compare usage of prose or something.

But there are trends and formulas that are replicated with great success once innovated.

Sitcoms post I Love Lucy still to this day use the 3 camera setup. Pre I Love Lucy, there was no such thing as a "situation comedy" on television and a lot of that comedy was via radio. Before I Love Lucy, no one had any idea what a TV comedy should or would look like.

That's what I mean when I say formula/trends. The innovations done by predecessors before.

 

[Skrams]

Not formulas as in math formulas.

Formulas as in that undefinable "secret sauce" that makes something good/enjoyable.

That's what I mean when I say formula/trends. The innovations done by predecessors before.

I just don't think a person needs to know some mysterious writing guidelines to make something good or enjoyable. I feel like people should just write what they want until they could possibly be proud of the work. If some people went with an entirely new set up for a some random anything genre tomorrow then that's good. They broke out of that box and did something new. That thing will then be innovated, improved, and copied except they still made that leap in the first place without relying on set patterns before. I don't know where I'm going with this really. I just feel it's weird that I'd have to follow a guideline to make a "good" thing when I could of already made good things without knowing the guidelines.

 

[Aaron-Lagann]

As with most things, there's no single way to write a story or character.

 

[Seraphis Cain]

Yeah, this...uh...this exists.

(Song's good though. Just a weird collaboration I never thought I'd see. And it's just as strange as I thought it'd be when I first heard about it.)

 

[RecursiveFault]

Not formulas as in math formulas.
Formulas as in that undefinable "secret sauce" that makes something good/enjoyable.
But there are trends and formulas that are replicated with great success once innovated.
Sitcoms post I Love Lucy still to this day use the 3 camera setup. Pre I Love Lucy, there was no such thing as a "situation comedy" on television and a lot of that comedy was via radio. Before I Love Lucy, no one had any idea what a TV comedy should or would look like.
That's what I mean when I say formula/trends. The innovations done by predecessors before.

There's things that have established trends that things follow, but it don't think it's required, it's just a baseline that's been iterated on as a common baseline. Things like basic story structure exist, but even then authors bend or break the "formula" to suit their needs.

 

[DoktorEvil]

I just don't think a person needs to know some mysterious writing guidelines to make something good or enjoyable. I feel like people should just write what they want until they could possibly be proud of the work. If some people went with an entirely new set up for a some random anything genre tomorrow then that's good. They broke out of that box and did something new. That thing will then be innovated, improved, and copied except they still made that leap in the first place without relying on set patterns before. I don't know where I'm going with this really. I just feel it's weird that I'd have to follow a guideline to make a "good" thing when I could of already made good things without knowing the guidelines.

Except with my I Love Lucy example, they created the box. And it wasn't out of altruism mind you.

Those guidelines, they're not "mysterious". They're established.

You're telling me that you had a problem with writing in MLA or APA style in high school/college?

Those are guidelines and that was for purely academic writing. What was good or bad was not how well one followed those guidelines but rather how effective their argument is in convincing the reader of the voracity and legitimacy of your argument.

There's things that have established trends that things follow, but it don't think it's required, it's just a baseline that's been iterated on as a common baseline. Things like basic story structure exist, but even then authors bend or break the "formula" to suit their needs.

But knowledgeable writers had to have some basis for their method.

 

[RecursiveFault]

Except with my I Love Lucy example, they created the box. And it wasn't out of altruism mind you.
Those guidelines, they're not "mysterious". They're established.
You're telling me that you had a problem with writing in MLA or APA style in high school/college?
Those are guidelines and that was for purely academic writing. What was good or bad was not how well one followed those guidelines but rather how effective their argument is in convincing the reader of the voracity and legitimacy of your argument.

Traditional essay format is training wheels to teach people to argue, not the only way to do things.

 

[Aaron-Lagann]

Yeah, this...uh...this exists.

Saw this when it first came out, still weird and fun.

But yeah, Japan loves KISS for some reason. So not really all that surprising.

 

[DoktorEvil]

Traditional essay format is training wheels to teach people to argue, not the only way to do things.

You don't think that there are also training wheel programs for career writers as well?

 

[Aaron-Lagann]

You don't think that there are also training wheel programs for career writers as well?

There are. Formula is very much a thing taught in school. I take these classes and read these books. It's a concept called story structure.

 

[RecursiveFault]

But knowledgeable writers had to have some basis for their method.

You don't think that there are also training wheel programs for career writers as well?

Of course. Learning from reading other people's work and other example of the medium is the backbone to good writing. Understanding how somebody told a good story and emulating it works well, but it's just not the only way to do things. Deviations from the existing concept of structure are actually very pronounced because the traditional formula exists.

 

[Skrams]

Except with my I Love Lucy example, they created the box. And it wasn't out of altruism mind you.

Those guidelines, they're not "mysterious". They're established.

You're telling me that you had a problem with writing in MLA or APA style in high school/college?

I didn't figure you were speaking in that broad of terms. There's guidelines for a story in terms of beginning, middle, end, or even the writing format you use. I assumed you were going even further as to say certain types of stories or genres need to follow this theme and style to truly be considered good.

Like others said, people always take the basis and bend it to what they see fit. There will always be some kind of preconceived bias or thought process for the person in how to write something and I find that fine since it's practically unavoidable. That person can still do whatever they want with the little knowledge they have about it and still make a good thing.

 

[DoktorEvil]

There are. Formula is very much a thing taught in school. I take these classes and read these books. It's a concept called story structure.

That's essentially the basis of my argument: There's a formula behind the madness of career writers and content creators with respect to characters, settings, and narrative/plot that fits cohesively to provide a good to great story.

Not an actual mathematical formula, but rather a formulaic, possibly sequential process to the madness of the writing method.

 

[TechnicaUS]

Morning guys. Did I miss anything?

 

[Ilvocare]

Morning BestGAF! Waking up with excessive crazy bedhair is still a pretty bad feeling, but there's been worse.

Thanks Aaron and SWC for last night.

Also I actually went to that thing you sent me AGAIN Aaron, and watched the first 10 minutes of R-Evolution. So is the appeal in wrestling the grandiose and really-difficult-to-sell aerial acrobatics in between the more limp "fistfights"? Because that first Owens vs. Parker match was fun and didn't overstay its welcome.

 

[Oberon]

Good evening Frienders,

I have decided that I'll watch Wrestling or Kamen Rider. Because I am apaerently missing out. I want to start with one of them, but don't know where to begin. I want to know about Gold dust, Pegasus kid, and why tripple H has a sledgehammer.
And I want know about Kamen rider, because they're heros in super sentai costumes fighting for justice.

 

[demidar]

Yeah, this...uh...this exists.

(Song's good though. Just a weird collaboration I never thought I'd see. And it's just as strange as I thought it'd be when I first heard about it.)

I find the existence--and subsequent international popularity--of Babymetal far more confounding.

but lol what the hell am i watching

 

[TechnicaUS]

Yeah, this...uh...this exists.

(Song's good though. Just a weird collaboration I never thought I'd see. And it's just as strange as I thought it'd be when I first heard about it.)

It was alright. Until the vocals came in

 

[RecursiveFault]

That's essentially the basis of my argument: There's a formula behind the madness of career writers and content creators with respect to characters, settings, and narrative/plot that fits cohesively to provide a good to great story.

Not an actual mathematical formula, but rather a formulaic, possibly sequential process to the madness of the writing method.

There's definitely a common idea of basic story structure, but even the simplest things are often bent to fit the needs or goal of a story. Even something as basic as having a climax is played with to where some stories never hit a climax. 95% of them though? Yeah sure, there's commonalities.

 

[AngryCanadian]

It is too early in the morning for me to jump in on this writing and character discussion but, while the topic has moved on, one of the things that I liked the least about FF13 was the sheer amount of text logs you had to read to flesh out the world and how it operates. While I don't want to be spoon fed everything the game does a poor job of explaining or even giving details about things like the fal'Cie in the story and they way just threw everything into literally a encyclopedia instead of implementing it into the game itself via side quests or flavour text. That is one reason that I feel taking towns out of the game was a bad idea, it just gives a natural way to better flesh out the world.
Sazh was also my favourite character in that game

 

[DoktorEvil]

I didn't figure you were speaking in that broad of terms. There's guidelines for a story in terms of beginning, middle, end, or even the writing format you use. I assumed you were going even further as to say certain types of stories or genres need to follow this theme and style to truly be considered good.

Like others said, people always take the basis and bend it to what they see fit. There will always be some kind of preconceived bias or thought process for the person in how to write something and I find that fine since it's practically unavoidable. That person can still do whatever they want with the little knowledge they have about it and still make a good thing.

Not at all. Personal Tastes I feel are not something to be so judgmental about but Biases are always at work, both environmental and societal.

Ex: Roger Ebert giving Die Hard 1 a thumbs down because he couldn't stand Reginald VelJohnson's character in the movie,despite enjoying everything else about the film.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNM7yG5X9IQ

Of course. Learning from reading other people's work and other example of the medium is the backbone to good writing. Understanding how somebody told a good story and emulating it works well, but it's just not the only way to do things. Deviations from the existing concept of structure are actually very pronounced because the traditional formula exists.

I concur.

My broader question that spurred this conversation: Does society know what a good character/charaterization is?

 

[Aaron-Lagann]

That's essentially the basis of my argument: There's a formula behind the madness of career writers and content creators with respect to characters, settings, and narrative/plot that fits cohesively to provide a good to great story.

Not an actual mathematical formula, but rather a formulaic, possibly sequential process to the madness of the writing method.

Sticking to the formula is a good idea while you're first starting out, since it gives you a chance to improve your actual technical ability and dialog while executing on a simple story. Most writers try to jump right to complicated stories off the bat and shoot themselves in the foot.

Thanks Aaron and SWC for last night.

Also I actually went to that thing you sent me AGAIN Aaron, and watched the first 10 minutes of R-Evolution. So is the appeal in wrestling the grandiose and really-difficult-to-sell aerial acrobatics in between the more limp "fistfights"? Because that first Owens vs. Parker match was fun and didn't overstay its welcome.

Keep your head in there, man! You'll rise through the ranks!

And that's one of the things, yeah. The "Strikes" as they call them are lame and boring, the more aerial and crazy stuff is what makes the matches actually fun to watch at first, then when you get more in there it becomes the stories on top of them that keep you invested in the outcome. Rooting for the guy you like to beat the guy you don't. And the length is what NXT does well, they keep things short and moving. One guy right now's entire gimmick is that he finishes matches in like ten seconds.

Good evening Frienders,

Alright, so, for actual wrestling, best place to go is WWE NXT. It's WWE production money for an indie show. The wrestling is good and the storylines are minimal but fun, not to mention the wrestlers actually have personality and are given mic time to develop those personalities.

For getting into wrestling, honestly I recommend watching some of the documentaries. They're the easiest way to get most of the information on what it is about wrestling that's fun, the history of what was cool, and a good look at specific personalities. I'll PM you some stuff.

For Kamen Rider the only one I've watched is Kabuto and I liked that one.

 

[Ultimate_Trainer]

Good evening Frienders,

For Kamen Rider, Its depends on what your looking for.

If you want a cool detective vibe watch Kamen Rider W. This is what gets people into Kamen Rider mostly. If you like the partners aspect of it continue on to OOO

For a Breakfast club style cast with neat interactions watch Fourze.

Gen Urobuchi wrote Gaim, so if your a fan of his work you'll like it.

 

[AngryCanadian]

I find the existence--and subsequent international popularity--of Babymetal far more confounding.

but lol what the hell am i watching

I actually like there one song Megitsune, mainly because the annoying backup girls stay quiet(er) through most of it. It is the incredibly manufactured but I like the main girl's voice and I like it paired up with generic metal sounds

 

[Aaron-Lagann]

I find the existence--and subsequent international popularity--of Babymetal far more confounding.

but lol what the hell am i watching

It's fun and catchy. I like it.

 

[demidar]

I actually like there one song Megitsune, mainly because the annoying backup girls stay quiet(er) through most of it. It is the incredibly manufactured but I like the main girl's voice and I like it paired up with generic metal sounds

Yeah, the main girl sounds good, the backup singers not so much.

 

[Ilvocare]

Keep your head in there, man! You'll rise through the ranks!

And that's one of the things, yeah. The "Strikes" as they call them are lame and boring, the more aerial and crazy stuff is what makes the matches actually fun to watch at first, then when you get more in there it becomes the stories on top of them that keep you invested in the outcome. Rooting for the guy you like to beat the guy you don't. And the length is what NXT does well, they keep things short and moving. One guy right now's entire gimmick is that he finishes matches in like ten seconds.

Understood!

Also are you telling me that there's a One-Punch-Man-esque guy in this? With presumably the additional point of not being impossible to beat???

Fuck, now I have to keep watching!

Spoiler

I can't wait.

 

[Aaron-Lagann]

Understood!

Also are you telling me that there's a One-Punch-Man-esque guy in this? With presumably the additional point of not being impossible to beat???

Fuck, now I have to keep watching!

Spoiler

I can't wait.

Here's his finisher. It's pretty neat.

 

[TechnicaUS]

Jojo spoilers

Spoiler

These column men are super weak villains. Especially coming off of dio. Nowhere near as much personality, if there's any at all.

 

[Aaron-Lagann]

Jojo spoilers

Spoiler

These column men are super weak villains. Especially coming off of dio. Nowhere near as much personality, if there's any at all.

 

[Xiraiya]

Jojo spoilers

Spoiler

These column men are super weak villains. Especially coming off of dio. Nowhere near as much personality, if there's any at all.

Haha, oh boy.

 

[TechnicaUS]

What? Am I missing something? They seem super lame and generic to me.

 

[RecursiveFault]

What? Am I missing something? They seem super lame and generic to me.

Expectation spoilers

Spoiler

They get better. They start limper than they end up.

 

[Seraphis Cain]

Good evening Frienders,

I have decided that I'll watch Wrestling or Kamen Rider. Because I am apaerently missing out. I want to start with one of them, but don't know where to begin. I want to know about Gold dust, Pegasus kid, and why tripple H has a sledgehammer.
And I want know about Kamen rider, because they're heros in super sentai costumes fighting for justice.

Do you like Madoka? Watch Gaim.
Do you like detective stuff? Watch W.
Do you like police procedurals and want to watch the current KR? Watch Drive.
Do you like wasted potential with a story that goes nowhere? Watch Wizard.

Blade's another personal favorite of mine, but a lot of the stuff it does, Gaim does better. 555/Faiz is great for awesome fight scenes and suits/equipment, but fucking abysmal for everything else. Kabuto's good until it falls the fuck apart at the end (like most pre-W Kamen Riders did). Decade's pure fanfic, but still really fun to watch even if you're not terribly familiar with KR. OOO is really fun too, great characters and story. Den-O is wonderful if you're in the mood for something a bit lighter-hearted with a lot of comedy. And that's everything I've seen, can't say much about Kuuga, Agito, Ryuki, Hibiki, Kiva, or Fourze.

 

[360pages]

Ah man, I missed all the writing talk...

 

[TechnicaUS]

Expectation spoilers

Spoiler

They get better. They start limper than they end up.

Okay, that makes more sense. I was worried they'd just stay 'big bag' the whole way.

 

[DoktorEvil]

Do you like Madoka? Watch Gaim.
Do you like detective stuff? Watch W.
Do you like police procedurals and want to watch the current KR? Watch Drive.
Do you like wasted potential with a story that goes nowhere? Watch Wizard.

Blade's another personal favorite of mine, but a lot of the stuff it does, Gaim does better. 555/Faiz is great for awesome fight scenes and suits/equipment, but fucking abysmal for everything else. Kabuto's good until it falls the fuck apart at the end (like most pre-W Kamen Riders did). Decade's pure fanfic, but still really fun to watch even if you're not terribly familiar with KR. OOO is really fun too, great characters and story. Den-O is wonderful if you're in the mood for something a bit lighter-hearted with a lot of comedy. And that's everything I've seen, can't say much about Kuuga, Agito, Ryuki, Hibiki, Kiva, or Fourze.

These are good enough endorsements for me. Where can I find these at my local anime store?

 

[Aaron-Lagann]

Oh shit, clearance is awesome. Got this for $10.

I think I might have a problem, because now I want more toys to go with this playset...

 

[Mathaou]

Ah man, I missed all the writing talk...

Me too, we'll have to have it again sometime.

I'd like to talk about a few things, mainly Death Parade/ Death Billiards, Assassination Classroom, and the second season of Durarara.

 

[Aaron-Lagann]

I'd like to talk about a few things, mainly Death Parade/ Death Billiards, Assassination Classroom, and the second season of Durarara.

I started death parade, saw the opening and stopped it, because I know a friend will like it so I'll watch it with him. Assassination Classroom is open and I'm gonna start it today and I'm an episode behind on Durarara, but I'm really interested in where it's going from here. Hollywood is a really fun plotline and that guy with the blonde hair and sideburns has an awesome design.

 

[Jman014]

Oh shit, clearance is awesome. Got this for $10.


I think I might have a problem, because now I want more toys to go with this playset...

Is there a Dean Ambrose action figure that says "THURSDAY!" when you squeeze it?

 

[Aaron-Lagann]

Is there a Dean Ambrose action figure that says "THURSDAY!" when you squeeze it?

I wish.

 

[360pages]

Saw a few Mincraft books, actual stories. Apparently they are actually decent/good, I might buy one since I seen them in Kmart.

 

[Ultimate_Trainer]

These are good enough endorsements for me. Where can I find these at my local anime store?

Nyaa~

 

[Seraphis Cain]

These are good enough endorsements for me. Where can I find these at my local anime store?

PM'd.

Nyaa~

This, basically, though. :lol

 

[Mathaou]

I started death parade, saw the opening and stopped it, because I know a friend will like it so I'll watch it with him. Assassination Classroom is open and I'm gonna start it today and I'm an episode behind on Durarara, but I'm really interested in where it's going from here. Hollywood is a really fun plotline and that guy with the blonde hair and sideburns has an awesome design.

Death Parade looks kick ass. I'm enjoying the bartender who looks like Ginko from Mushi-Shi and the overall premise sounds badass. I really hope they keep the episodic nature of the show.

Assassination classroom is fantastic for no reason, it's so weird, but it's executed so well.

Durarara is fantastic so far, loving everything about it.

Also, has anyone looked at the 2015 spring anime chart? It's going to be amazing!
Baby Steps second season
I can't understand what my husband is saying season 2
More Gintama
More F/SNUBW
Nagato Yuki-chan no Shoushitsu
Nisekoi season 2
Yamada-kun and the seven witches
SNAFU season 2

 

[Jman014]

Saw a few Mincraft books, actual stories. Apparently they are actually decent/good, I might buy one since I seen them in Kmart.

I saw some on Amazon. I wonder if they explain what's up with Steve

 

[360pages]

You can't use the term Trap, so you might want to change that right quick!

 

[Aaron-Lagann]

Death Parade looks kick ass. I'm enjoying the bartender who looks like Ginko from Mushi-Shi and the overall premise sounds badass. I really hope they keep the episodic nature of the show.

Assassination classroom is fantastic for no reason, it's so weird, but it's executed so well. Even if the main character is a feminine young man.

Durarara is fantastic so far, loving everything about it.

Also, has anyone looked at the 2015 spring anime chart? It's going to be amazing!
Baby Steps second season
I can't understand what my husband is saying season 2
More Gintama
More F/SNUBW
Nagato Yuki-chan no Shoushitsu
Nisekoi season 2
Yamada-kun and the seven witches
SNAFU season 2

I love the look of Death Parade and the OP is early contender for OP of the year.

Durarara X2 is one of those things where it feels like it never ended and it's just continuing directly after it ended, despite a very slight art change in some characters.

Spring is going to be amazing. There's one about an ugly guy in love with a girl who's in love with a typical bishi and that sounds promisingly heartwarming.

Is "I can't understand what my husband is saying" worth watching? I only watched one episode and didn't really care for it.