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Super Best Friends Thread 7: FRIENDER65

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C

croten

Member
Xiraiya said:
Why is it you hate Oblivion's leveling? Is it the whole set up that was in all TES games up to Skyrim, or something else?
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It was just so grindy. If you pick Athletics or Acrobatics then your fucked, start jumping everywhere like a stupid asshole, Level up!
 
A

Aaron-Lagann

Banned
Ultimate_Trainer said:
Kyosuke. They just finished the first disk where it diverges off the anime. On the second disk its a new story where everyone is your sister.
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sNKLaan.gif
 
I

IDKAboutThat

Member
croten said:
It was just so grindy. If you pick Athletics or Acrobatics then your fucked, start jumping everywhere like a stupid asshole, Level up!
Click to expand...

Oblivion's leveling is pretty grindy, but the skills progress naturally through just doing shit, so I never had a problem with that. The big problem I ran into was having to sleep to level up. Sometimes I gain like 8 levels by the time I actually cash it all in.
 
X

Xiraiya

Member
croten said:
It was just so grindy. If you pick Athletics or Acrobatics then your fucked, start jumping everywhere like a stupid asshole, Level up!
Click to expand...

Well I actually do agree with Athletics and Acrobatics, but I never found it grindy, in the context of elder scrolls I MUCH prefer the Attribute + Skills system over the Perk system in skyrim, it takes out some of the RPG feeling for me.
Even though I appreciate Skyrim more than a lot of people do and think that considering how significant that change was, Bethesda did surprisingly well with making it work.
 
A

ArclightBorealis

Member
croten said:
It was just so grindy. If you pick Athletics or Acrobatics then your fucked, start jumping everywhere like a stupid asshole, Level up!
Click to expand...
The real issue wasn't it being grindy, it's that EVERYTHING scaled to your level. Enemies in particular became especially hard at a certain point if you were leveling up but not building your skills properly. Playing it naturally instead of min maxing is punishing, but since it can be easily avoided by never sleeping ever, the fuck is the point? It's fucking broken.

Skyrim at least fixed that shit by only having enemies scale to a certain point in specific regions. Having it be universal to the entire game was bullshit.
 
C

croten

Member
Xiraiya said:
Well I actually do agree with Athletics and Acrobatics, but I never found it grindy, in the context of elder scrolls I MUCH prefer the Attribute + Skills system over the Perk system in skyrim, it takes out some of the RPG feeling for me.

Even though I appreciate Skyrim more than a lot of people do and think that considering how significant that change was, Bethesda did surprisingly well with making it work.
Click to expand...

Skyrim is dumbed down and that's what I like about it, plus I liked the perks, I know not everybody will but I really did. It was something I loved in Fallout as well.
 
I

IDKAboutThat

Member
ArclightBorealis said:
The real issue wasn't it being grindy, it's that EVERYTHING scaled to your level. Enemies in particular became especially hard at a certain point if you were leveling up but not building your skills properly. Playing it naturally instead of min maxing is punishing, but since it can be easily avoided by never sleeping ever, the fuck is the point? It's fucking broken.

Skyrim at least fixed that shit by only having enemies scale to a certain point in specific regions. Having it be universal to the entire game was bullshit.
Click to expand...

Oh, your problem is that you play the game like a weird asshole. Okay.
 
A

ArclightBorealis

Member
SickWheelchairCombos said:
Oh, your problem is that you play the game like a weird asshole. Okay.
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If by weird asshole you mean someone who actually gives a shit about role playing in these types of games, then yes. That leveling system is straight up busted, it is inexcusable.

It's really telling when you need an overhaul mod like Oscuro's in order to make the entire base game fucking decent.
 
I

IDKAboutThat

Member
ArclightBorealis said:
If by weird asshole you mean someone who actually gives a shit about role playing in these types of games, then yes. That leveling system is straight up busted, it is inexcusable.

It's really telling when you need an overhaul mod like Oscuro's in order to make the entire base game fucking decent.
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Overleveling by jumping your way to OP acrobatics is not role playing.

EDIT: DP due to thread experiencing weird (Ropy) spurts of activity
 
I

IDKAboutThat

Member
ArclightBorealis said:
When did I imply that's what I did?
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Sorry, my brain kind of lumped together your and Croten's comments on the subject into a weird mass statement of "Oblivion's leveling is weird and bullshit because if you pick athletics and acrobatics and level them up too high everything that spawns in can kill you in one shot"
 
X

Xiraiya

Member
croten said:
Skyrim is dumbed down and that's what I like about it, plus I liked the perks, I know not everybody will but I really did. It was something I loved in Fallout as well.
Click to expand...

See, it's all about context and the overall experience for me even the UI matters in this regard, let alone the layout and function of stats/skilles. I liked the Perk system in Fallout because I felt like it made sense for Fallout to be that way.
Where as, I don't like that in Elder Scrolls because that's not what Elder Scrolls is to me, so them dumbing it down in different ways removes different aspects as to why I liked that series in the first place, mechanically what they did is fine, just put it in another series.

I played a whole bunch of different RPGs growing up, And I found a lot of them to be pretty simple, most FF games don't have much depth in character building and stats, that's fine.

I get bored of games that are grindy in the sense of "You need x amount of XP to level" but I love it when my character is progressing by doing different actions to level up parts of themselves that make up a greater benefit in the long run. Morrowind had 27 different skills on top of the regular attributes, I love that, because that was way more indepth and different to anything I had played before then, and it took me 2 days to work out how to even start leveling, that was a wonderful experience, exploring and figuring that out, chipping away my character, exploring the land and so on.

I'm not going to argue it's practicality because it's not really practical for a game to be that way in the sense of marketing and selling, but I thought the way everything worked was great because it was so unlike anything else I had seen or played at the time.
That's what Elder Scrolls is to me, so while I really like Skyrim's Perk system, I don't want it in a series that didn't work that way.
Sure games and genres and individual series need to evolve and progress and so on, but that is not the way to do it in my opinion, I believe there are plenty of other ways to refine a series without changing it into a different series that is a vague shell of what it was.

But you know, I'm not a business man, nor am I a game developer, but I know what I like, and when I really like a game/series, it's not for a singular reason, it's the entirety of every little and normally insignificant thing in the context of that game or that series that make up an overall experience that is unique.

I suppose I appreciate games differently to a lot of people, oh well it is what it is.
 
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