Super Mario Maker: Not all tools available from the start, unlock over 9 days
- Thread starter ElectricBlanketFire
- Start date
The point that I was making an unfair comparison because I put some cover art while he put some... cover art? The fact that SMM cover is made with actual assets rather than drawings is irrelevant to the point that I made earlier.
The cover is just a tribute of the old 2D Mario games and doesn't have anything to do with how Nintendo wants people to create/design levels.
I can understand your perspective of it, they're both cover arts/promo arts that can be viewed as somewhat irrelevant of what the actual game is. I can just also see the other perspective of how the Mario Maker cover art is a bit more representative of the game and what it wants you to do versus, say the Mario World cover
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
You are not understanding.
-You were responding to my post saying all of the promos/ads show people making crazy stuff was a good point
-You said no it wasn't, said it was "random art" and then posted a bunch of hand-drawn artwork
-We pointed out that the Mario Maker boxart was essentially a screen shot
-You then said even though Mario Maker uses actual assets (which is not "random art"), it's irrelevant, which it's not because that was the entire premise of your original post and we're "nitpicky" because we pointed it out.
thecouncil
Banned
I know, but you can see the difference between Super Mario World levels and just about every single Super Mario Maker level we've ever seen, right? SMM is just random garbage crowding the screen because it's possible. (I've never seen a tower of Bowsers in a Mario game before and there's probably a reason for that.) It's what almost all uploaded levels are going to be.
...
but this is all certainly off topic.
...
9 days to unlock everything is bad.
Captain_Wreckus
Member
Meh, I pre-ordered it anyways on my WiiU (digital). More I watch the IGN videos I really want to play this. Heck, I'm now thinking about levels I want to make while I play mario now.
The tools allow for that but that doesn't that's the only thing that's going to be made either.
Some levels in NSMBU could mechanically happen roughly in Mario World but never could there was so much shit going on a screen at once.
It will depends on what players will feel like making once the dust settles.
Hope you'll have fun with it.
I'm sure some things will get lost in translation both ways since english is not my first language (as I'm sure you noticed -grammar, typos and such-) so I apologize for that. In fact my reply was more oriented to the post you quoted than anything:
I just wanted to say that (1) yes Nintendo showed crazy levels in videos, NWC, TreeHouse demos, etc, but that promo art (2) is actually a cover that it's a homage of other old covers: Mario with a bunch of random enemies and items. And these two facts doesn't have anything to do with the way Nintendo is unlocking all the elements of the editor for us.
That's why I said it was not a good point. You'll be able to to NWC-crazy levels soon enough but first you'll need to make some simple ones to get used of the editor. Pretty sure Treehouse guys didn't get that good at making hell levels in his first day, anyway and that they did some easier and simple ones to understand all things better and try combinations of objects and situations. I'm sorry if I can't make myself clearer with my crappy english skills lol.
Captain_Wreckus
Member
Now that I think of it, I'm surprised they didn't add all the items from the american version of Super Mario Bros 2.
So basically you are saying to ignore everything Nintendo has shown us about the actual game, and instead look at the cover as a reference to Japanese promotional art from the past. Does this seem like a likely correlation?
And of course people get better at making levels the more they play. But there is no point in restricting it via day unlocks. It completely contradicts the marketing of this title. Nintendo is saying two things: You can make crazy levels filled with anything AND It's too hard to make such fun levels, so reflect on it for a week.
You do realize WHY people are upset yes? It's not because we have to unlock it, it's because it takes us nine days to do so. It would be like if Smash Bros. started with ten characters, and you were only allowed to unlock one per day. If the game made us make X number of maps before we get some features, that's fine. I could burn through it in an hour or whatever. But now I have to wait nine days. This is absolutely not the best solution.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Nope, nobody said that.
Unlocking is not controversial.
The method of unlocking for this particular game is annoying and arbitrary.
Diprosalic
Banned
reviewers get to play on a special server that unlocks everything day 1.
or so i heard.
or so i heard.
No, I'm just saying that in all games you progress over time, sometimes advancing levels, sometimes earning points or experience or up-leveling, and with this title will be with some experimentation (5 minutes) over 9 days. Also, as this is not a regular game, but a tool, this is a better way to master all the available tools if you want to, or just make some simple levels a few days for other people to enjoy, play the pre-made levels and in a few days you'll have more tools and freedom at your disposal.
It's not perfect, but it's not that bad as some people are trying to say, IMO at least. Some people brought examples like LBP where you had to complete the story mode to unlock everything; Minecraft where you'll need days to be able to make some advanced stuff, or other tool's tutorials like the ones for editors like photoshop or maya where you learn one tool at a time before trying to make some complex stuff. None of these examples are perfect analogies, for obvious reasons, but they serve as pretty good examples of why Nintendo does this kind of things. It doesn't have to please everyone, but it has logic and, all things considered, it's just 9 days.
I wanted to do first a Ghost House as I said earlier, so it's a bummer for me, but it's not a big deal either. I'll just think creative ways to make cool levels with the tools I have each day.
Lastly, I don't agree on the "hey but at least give us an option to skip this" because that way everyone will skip it, and the intended purpose will be in vain.
A Legend of Zelda Maker or Metroid Maker would make me so happy. They probably won't do it, but it would make me happy.
John Kowalski
Banned
This is interesting. I've been thinking about this sort of thing for a long time. I like that Ninty is experimenting with it, in their own weird way. Though it does show for who exactly they are designing this game.
Captain_Wreckus
Member
I would love a Legend of Zelda maker.
How is a keeping content locked behind days better than keeping it locked behind how many maps you make? How is this the best method?
Minecraft has a creative mode where you get all the items and make anything instantly. The survival mode is where you have to spend time searching for and creating items. Super Mario Maker is basically all creative mode, so why should stuff be locked for so long? And Super Mario Maker is nowhere near the complexity of Maya or Photoshop. Even those programs don't lock features. There's no logic in a day system at all. "It's just nine days" is not a good argument. It's just ten days. It's just two weeks. It's just a month. If you are twenty, you've lived 240 months. One month to unlock all the items in Super Mario Maker is nothing compared to that!
If you could get the items in one day, you could make the Ghost House AND think of creative ways to make levels with limited items. Instead of doing one thing, you can do two! Isn't that more fun?
Also if everyone skips it... maybe there's a reason for that? Perhaps people who pay money for the game would prefer to have all the items fairly quickly opposed to this current method?
"Sir, everyone wants to have fun."
"I'll be damned if they have fun today. They will have fun when I deem them ready to have fun."
I can see a Zelda Dungeon Maker, with LOZ, ALTTP, ALBW and PH themes but I'm not sure about an overworld or story editor.
Comparing Adobe Creative Suit to Mario Maker?
It's like complaining that LBP doesn't have a Quessarito option hidden somewhere.
A Metroid Maker makes no sense at all, you would need to create a whole biggass game before being done with a single "level".
A Zelda dungeon maker would be interesting but quickly boring.
Or it's like Animal Crossing or Tomodachi Life, games that already do this. People coped with those, they can cope with this. Different games doing different things. I can understand why it may upset someone, but only to a point. Some have gone beyond that.
I should probably note again that I'm not for this decision. I've just decided to not make a big deal about it.
Controversy is usually an observation made by those on the outside, not by those causing it so I don't expect the vocal complainers to actually say it's controversial. By since we're on page 17 (100PPP) I'd say it's a fair observation to make.
I'm hopeful they'll release an update or DLC pack that contains all the assets from 2.
I would kill for this. My life would be consumed 24/7.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Nobody is complaining about the concept of unlocking content in video games.
People are complaining about the method of unlocking content in this video game.
I'd love to see them team up with Capcom to make a Mega Man Maker. That version could toggle between 8 bit Mega Man style and 16 bit Mega Man X style.
While this is annoying, at least it can be done. It *will* be done.
Honestly as asinine as this decision is, it doesn't surprise me. Nintendo has a way of designing every game they make as if it was the first video game you have ever played in your life. I get what they're going for, but they overcompensate almost every time. I mean, nine days??? Nine is such an arbitrary number.
Obviously it's not a huge deal since its only nine days, but I don't like it. I don't like Nintendo to dictate the pace in which I learn with the game I paid full price on. I don't like the idea of dripfeeding content that's on the disc past the release date.
It could be worse, but they should have just let us learn at our own pace.
It could be worse, but they should have just let us learn at our own pace.
SmoothRunningGun
Member
Oh Nintendo...this is silly.
Beyond that how? By posting about how annoyed they are on a message board and suggesting how they would rather the game worked? I assure you it's a small minority who are actually cancelling their preorders over this. It's also worth pointing out that Animal Crossing is a life sim, where the entire point of the game is doing small things one day then coming back the next day. That and not everyone who's interested in this game enjoyed the features of that one.
I'd like that. Also, for what it's worth, Megaman Powered Up on PSP has a level creator. Been a while since I played it, but I remember having a good time with it.
Yes, I am aware of what the past 17 pages are about.
Well your example of cancelling pre-orders is one. I only said some have gone beyond the point. It's possible to say you don't think this is a smart decision without getting overly emotional about it.
Diprosalic
Banned
what?
What a terrible, terrible rationale. We should shut up and accept any stupid decision they make just because it's a game we want? Should we just shut up and accept Need For Speed being always-online for some inexplicable reason since its a game I may want?
Don't discourage people from fighting against or questioning an unusual design decision.
Maybe it's not the best solution but it's better than the one you're proposing--building hastily put together levels just to get the unlocks. I don't want to sift through millions of rushed, thoughtless levels. At least their approach may postpone another 30 page thread about that one missing piece that would have made the game so much better.
While you can post levels online and play levels made by people online that's the extent of the online portion of the game.
You don't even need online to play it.
There's no server with everything unlocked to be begin with.
KratosEnergyDrink
Member
hopefully submitting levels will only be possible after nine days of experience too.
Sir Alemeth
Member
I'm fine with this.
Probably get better level designs in the end because of this.
Probably get better level designs in the end because of this.
I need someone to re-create this :
http://youtu.be/3C1BSbq5aB0
This will be fun.
Edit : wait, firebars are on day 4, damn.
http://youtu.be/3C1BSbq5aB0
This will be fun.
Edit : wait, firebars are on day 4, damn.
Super Mario Maker makes sense.
Zelda or Metroid maker, unfortunately, does not. If you want to make a Zelda game or Metroid game, you should just make your own game in something like Unity, Unreal, Stencyl, or Gamemaker.
Forkball said:
Hmm, don't know... Maybe so you can't rush three or four simple levels in 10 minutes to quickly get new items? This way you have 24h to actually make some levels to play with family and friends and/or share to the rest of users and in the process create a good amount of simple levels to keep variety in the online mode. It'd be awful if most levels online are NWC kind of levels, for example. If Nintendo forces you to make some classic levels with limited items we'll get more variety and if you don't want to do it, you can just mess around 5 minutes and start playing sample levels, online levels from reviewers or just wait a bit.
Forkball said:
It's not that complex... for me and you, at least. But this game is not just for me and you. And also, you forget that one thing is dropping blocks and enemies, witch is easy peasy, and other completely different thing is to make a good design, witch is pretty difficult even for you and me, I'd say. So what's so bad to spend a few hours to make some basic schematic levels and adding more and more things everyday until you have the complete set? You didn't use this editor yet to be so sure about how easy or difficult it'll be. Nintendo has no doubt tested this enough to make this decision. Maybe it's a bad decision, but we'd better wait until we play it before make assumptions.
I used Maya and Photoshop as examples because, even if one simple tool in those programs are very simple to use, the problem is to make complex things with those tool, or combining it with other tools in a way that makes sense. Like I said, it's not about to randomly place blocks and enemies, the same way it's not te same to playing with toggles in Polygon mesh menus to see if you get something cool. Easy of use doesn't guarantee good results.
Forkball said:
On paper, I agree. But reality is that this is not how people usually does things.
Forkball said:
I don't think people will skip that. I'm positively thinking that people will create some pretty good simple levels that otherwise nobody but a few users would if we'd have the choice to start with NWC like levels. Progression is a good thing. Variety is a good thing. In a few days we'll be able to do anything we want and play anything we want. And if you only want to play classic levels, this way you have a better chance to get a bunch of those.
I'll say it again. It's not a perfect way to do things. I think most of us agree on this. But it's not the big deal some people are trying it to make it to be. And I don't think it's going anywhere, so maybe we'd better use our time plotting some cool minimalistic levels to impress the community while secretly plotting the crazy ones a bit later.
Diprosalic
Banned
the game connects to a different server than retail that gives the game the go ahead to unlock everything. what's so hard to understand?
Funny you mention that, the original LoZ was supposed to be one, according to my copy of Hyrule Historia.
Miyamoto said:
That's ridiculously overcomplicated, they're probably given gamecode with everything unlocked or special saves with everything unlocked.
You probably don't need to connect to unlock or play the game at all.
True enough, damn limited space of carts at the time.
If we're talking older Zelda, that would be interesting.
Anything after Oracle of Season would be quickly boring to make levels for.
Meh they already made randomly generated dungeons so I guess this is a next step :/
I added the quote from the book in my postapparently they simply found that playing was more fun than making. 😊
Arbitrary locking out features by time limits just seems like a cheap way to avoid making some sort of tutorial that explains the different tools for making levels. I haven't followed this game much, so do they have a tutorial of any sort? If they do, then it makes less sense to lock out features.
It's a toy box/blank canvas. The idea is you learn by playing with it. They want the maker to be as much a game as it is a utility.